Epic Feat - Spell Stowaway, How does it work?

[Nezkrul]

If we were to choose a personal target, range: zero/personal, spell for out spell stow away feat, how exactly should we rule the feat to work? Does it trump the range and target rules for the spell chosen? The way the feat is written it doesnt explicitly say we become a target regardless of range, but implicitly it does because of how the rules of magic works.

For example, what if we were to choose time stop...

1. Does the feat allow you to literally stow away inside the caster’s spell, as if you were part of the target, and instances of “you” in the spell’s rules would also include you? IE you and the caster should be able to interact, on initiative, just like he and his familiar can share and interact in the same time stop, and affect each other with attacks and spells....

Or

2. We get our own, separate, mutually exclusive time stop, coinciding with, but not including the original caster; no interaction is possible.

I am of the opinion, both as how the rules are written, as well as intended, that #1 is correct. But what about you guys, may I have your thoughts?


P.S. If we pick something like a buff (haste or greater blink), it is straight forward that we would also benefit from the effects of the spell, as intended by the feat’s wording, its just that some spells have a strange interaction with the feat, like time stop.

[Biggus]

As Spell Stowaway says you immediately gain the spell's effect, it makes sense to me that your Time Stops would be simultaneous (and thus you'd be able to interact with each other), since you don't actually stop time but speed yourself up so much that it appears you have.

[Gruftzwerg]

As Spell Stowaway says you immediately gain the spell's effect, it makes sense to me that your Time Stops would be simultaneous (and thus you'd be able to interact with each other), since you don't actually stop time but speed yourself up so much that it appears you have.

imho they are not in the same instance and won't see each other. While the fluff text implies different time flow and common sense would imply it, RAW says:


"You are undetectable while time stop lasts."
With no exceptions. But it's just RAW, in a real game, as DM, I would see no reason to not houserule it for more interaction possibilities.
I mean, this would also allow using a prepared action or a contingent spell to simultaneously cast a Time Stop yourself to enter the same stopped time that your enemy tries to enter (without the need of Spell Stowaway). (sorry if the last sentence sounds confusing, but I don't know how else I should put it into words^^).

[Biggus]

imho they are not in the same instance and won't see each other. While the fluff text implies different time flow and common sense would imply it, RAW says:


With no exceptions. But it's just RAW, in a real game, as DM, I would see no reason to not houserule it for more interaction possibilities.
I mean, this would also allow using a prepared action or a contingent spell to simultaneously cast a Time Stop yourself to enter the same stopped time that your enemy tries to enter (without the need of Spell Stowaway). (sorry if the last sentence sounds confusing, but I don't know how else I should put it into words^^).

It's not as cut and dried as that. Nonepic spells don't take account of epic abilities: for example, Mind Blank says


This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects

with no exceptions. In fact, it even goes on to point out that Wish and Miracle can't overcome it. But then at epic levels, Bards can take the feat Music of the Gods, which says


Your bardic music can affect even those normally immune to mind-affecting effects

Time Stop doesn't specify what happens if someone else is Time Stopped exactly simultaneously, as that's not something that can happen at nonepic levels.

[Gruftzwerg]

It's not as cut and dried as that. Nonepic spells don't take account of epic abilities: for example, Mind Blank says



with no exceptions. In fact, it even goes on to point out that Wish and Miracle can't overcome it. But then at epic levels, Bards can take the feat Music of the Gods, which says



Time Stop doesn't specify what happens if someone else is Time Stopped exactly simultaneously, as that's not something that can happen at nonepic levels.

I get what you mean, but in this chase I don't see Spell Stowaway altering the targeted spell in any kind. It doesn't say that you share the same instance of cast what one might assume. It only specifies that it is treated (in terms of power/scaling/duration..) as if the original caster has cast it on you (note: and not something like "includes you as target too").

But as said. I think the interaction would be a good houserule, including the other mentioned methods.

[Nezkrul]

the only way the feat could work is if it makes you a target. “You”, in time stop’s rules, refers to the target, because normally you can only target yourself (and share it with your familiar).

Time stop doesnt freeze the world, its basically supra-mega-ultra haste. If the bad guy casts time stop, and we “immediately gain the effect of the spell”, then we should speed up right along with them.

Like The Flash fighting Superman, in Justice League.

[Gruftzwerg]

the only way the feat could work is if it makes you a target. “You”, in time stop’s rules, refers to the target, because normally you can only target yourself (and share it with your familiar).even a familiar wouldn't see his master and vice versa. The rule is strict by RAW.


Time stop doesnt freeze the world, its basically supra-mega-ultra haste. If the bad guy casts time stop, and we “immediately gain the effect of the spell”, then we should speed up right along with them.

Like The Flash fighting Superman, in Justice League.

Yeah that's nice fluff but the applied rules are more "freeze the time". Fluff text and applied rules are separate things. And in this chase TS gives you some turns chained to act with limitations (not harming someone in the meanwhile) while being undetectable. not more, not less.

3.5 has other more reliable mechanisms to alter time. Namely Planar Sheepshead with Dal Quor Planar Bubble. You get 10 turns to act while others only get a single turn and you may attack em as you wish. If you want "Matrix"-slowmo this is the way to go.

Now it should be obvious that Time Stop is not even close to what is says fluff wise. It's a cheap trick compared.