Thematic Sorcerer Subclass Spells

[HPisBS]

Sorcerers have it kinda rough with the fewest spells known of any full caster, or even Warlock. (Mystic Arcanum doesn't count against spells known, plus Warlocks can supplement that repertoire with spells from various invocations.) Heck, even Rangers and Paladins get at least 15 spells once you factor in their subclasses!

With so few spells, you're liable to wind up building sorcerers that barely have any spells tied to their Origin.

To address this shortcoming, we should consider adding a small handful of bonus thematic spells known for each Sorcerous Origin.
This will never become RAW for 5e, but oh well, c'est la vie.


To be precise, we're looking for 4 5 bonus spells ranging from 1st to 4th 5th levels. They should all be thematic, come from other classes' lists where possible, and ~ half should be non-damaging (like Gust of Wind for Storm Sorc).
⤷ Limiting it to 4 bonuses would keep Sorcerers as the full-caster with the fewest available spells. Limiting the number of damaging spells keeps the balance of power from shifting too drastically. Flavor is the primary goal here.

The only unclear element is: At which levels should sorcerers gain these bonus thematic spells? Should it be 1, 6, 14, 18 to coincide with their other Origin features? Or 1, 3, 5, 7 to keep with the Domains, etc that inspired the idea (as well as the original Storm and Favored Soul UAs)? If it's the latter, then it feels too front-loaded (especially given how steeply the new spells increase drops off for Sorcs later on), but if it's the former, then the 4th & even 3rd level spells aren't gained until after you've long since outgrown them. Perhaps it should be the average of the two – 1, 4, 9, 12?

So, here are lists of appropriate bonus spells for all 5 official Sorcererous Origins:

1 - Armor of Agathys, but the damage is of your Draconic element
2 - Alter Self, but adds a “Draconic Eyes” option (+ 30 ft darkvision, max 120 ft)
3 - Fear
4 - Elemental Bane (Draconic element only)
5 - Elemental Cone (Cone of Cold, but the damage is of your Draconic element)

Roll a d6 to determine which full-caster class (+warlock) you get the bonus spell from, followed by a d8 to determine which school the spell is from. Roll both again each time you gain a different bonus spell, including when replacing a previously chosen bonus spell. You may choose Chaos Bolt as your bonus 1st level spell instead.

You may re-roll for one of these spells whenever a Wild Magic Surge happens.

1 - Unseen Servant
2 - Darkness (+ Pass Without Trace?)
3 - Speak With Dead
4 - Shadow of Moil
5 - Dance Macabre?

RAW getting bonus Darkness complicates things

1 - Fog Cloud
2 - Gust of Wind
3 - Call Lightning
4 - Conjure Minor Elementals (only dust, steam, smoke, & ice mephits as per the original UA)
5 - Conjure (Air) Elemental as per the original UA

Pick a domain and gain 1 of their bonus spells for each level, priority given to spells which are on the Cleric spell list.

(It's unclear whether this should be in addition to or instead of the RAW alignment-based bonus spell at level 1.)

The above bonus spells should dramatically increase the flavor of the associated Origins, far beyond what is practical - or even possible - with the RAW spells known / sorcerer spell list.

Which Sorc levels to add them at, and What to do about the 1 bonus spell that's already built into Shadow and Divine Soul are the least clear elements to this modification.

Edit:
Now that there are official Origins with bonus spells, I decided to add 5th lvl spells to these lists. I wanted weaker thematic 5th lvl spells, like Antilife Shell for Shadow and Control Winds (with the added ability to center it on Self) for Storm, but the best fit I could find for a non-damaging Draconic spell would've been Legend Lore (to represent genetic memory), or maybe Hallow (to sorta represent Lair / Regional Effects) and those just didn't feel right. So, more power-creep it is!

[JumboWheat01]

Any other class that gains bonus spells based on their sub-class (Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Warlock) gain them at the level said spell becomes accessible. For example, a Light Cleric gets Burning Hands at level 1, a Coastal Land Druid gets Water Breathing at 5. I see no reason a Sorcerer shouldn't get their bonus spells the same way.

[HPisBS]

You're probably right.

I guess that's just me hedging, thinking there must be some reason why the devs are so reluctant to add any spells known at all lol

[Jerrykhor]

Draconic

1- Chromatic Orb
2- Dragon's Breath
3- Fly
4- Fire Shield (draconic element)
5- Cone of Cold (draconic element)

Wild Magic
-Should have a table of spells that they can roll after a long rest to see what spell they get for each level

Shadow

1- Arms of Hadar
2- Shadowblade
3- Hunger of Hadar
4- Evard's Black Tentacles
5- Enervation

Storm

1- Thunderwave
2- Warding Wind
3- Call Lightning
4- Storm Sphere
5- Control Winds

Divine Soul

1- Bless
2- Spiritual Weapon
3- Spirit Guardians
4- Guardian of Faith
5- Flame Strike

[JumboWheat01]

Wild Magic
-Should have a table of spells that they can roll after a long rest to see what spell they get for each level


I know it would make book keeping a pain, but I would also love to see the spell change after a Wild Magic Surge happens, just to add in additional chaos.

[HPisBS]

It's not a table, but I'll add for Wild Sorcs to roll for the school, too.

See that? Helpful feedback!


I kinda expected some discussion on whether the bonus Darkness and alignment-based spell of RAW Shadow and Divine Soul should count against these bonus spells or not, though.

[Paeleus]

I have a special place in my heart for Wild Magic Sorcerers but personally dislike like the rolling for random spells, I have an alternative suggestion

Level 1 - Chaos Bolt (of course)

Level 3 - Mirror Image (eh, there might be a better choice)

Level 5 - Blink

Level 7 - Polymorth (I think the creature to be polymorphed into should rolled for on a table containing anything from a flumph to a T-rex)

Level 9 - Reincarnate

My approach was to target spells that lend themselves to random dice rolls and possible hilarity while bolstering a Sorcerers weaknesses - mainly low HP and lack of spell choice options. Critiques welcome

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I don't think Sorcerers need more spells, they just need more SP or metamagics.

I would like to see metamagics have a 0 cost and then a regular cost option. Also, when you make SP from a slot, you gain more SP than currently (maybe slot + 2).

However, for the purposes of this thread, one thing I have done is allowed the Sorcerer to pick up two spells per level they can cast (including cantrips) from any list. This is up to 5th level spells.

Instead of pushing what spells they can use via subclass, I just let the player make their own lists. I have final say if anything is a bit fishy.

[Garfunion]

I have a special place in my heart for Wild Magic Sorcerers but personally dislike like the rolling for random spells, I have an alternative suggestion

Level 1 - Chaos Bolt (of course)

Level 3 - Mirror Image (eh, there might be a better choice)

Level 5 - Blink

Level 7 - Polymorth (I think the creature to be polymorphed into should rolled for on a table containing anything from a flumph to a T-rex)

Level 9 - Reincarnate

My approach was to target spells that lend themselves to random dice rolls and possible hilarity while bolstering a Sorcerers weaknesses - mainly low HP and lack of spell choice options. Critiques welcome

Level 3 - Blur
Level 7 - Confusion

[Bobthewizard]

For draconic, I like to let them change spells to their damage type.

Cantrip - Firebolt
1st - Thunderwave
2nd - Scorching Ray
3rd - Fireball
4th - Wall of Fire

But all in their chosen damage type. So a Black dragon sorcerer would get Acidbolt, Acidwave, Acid Ray, Acidball, and Wall of Acid.

[MrStabby]

You're probably right.

I guess that's just me hedging, thinking there must be some reason why the devs are so reluctant to add any spells known at all lol

I would imagine that it is because the sorcerer is already really powerful, more powerful than most classes and that they are only held back by their spell list and tight restriction on spells known.

I would suggest that spells are made available to the sorcerer rather than are automatically known. That said, I would like it if sorcerers actually got just a few spells that other classes didn't. If you are going to homebrew stuff for the sorcerer, write some new spells explicitly to capture the essence of each origin.

[HPisBS]

I would imagine that it is because the sorcerer is already really powerful, more powerful than most classes...

Have you been following the On Sorcerers and Wizards thread? You'd definitely be in the minority there, at least if compared to wizards lol

If we re-frame that as "the sorcerer is more powerful than most non- and half-caster classes," then sure. 'Cuz full caster.

I mean, twinned and a few other metamagics are incredibly potent. But I'd contend that, if we look at things holistically, even bards can at least be on par with sorcerers (particularly Lore), despite the lack of inherent blasting power. Plus, sorcery points can run out fast.


Even so, I decided to hedge in case my perception was skewed somehow. Hence, my intentional focus on flavor over power. That's why Storm has Fog Cloud instead of Thunderwave, for example.

[MrStabby]

Have you been following the On Sorcerers and Wizards thread? You'd definitely be in the minority there, at least if compared to wizards lol

If we re-frame that as "the sorcerer is more powerful than most non- and half-caster classes," then sure. 'Cuz full caster.

I mean, twinned and a few other metamagics are incredibly potent. But I'd contend that, if we look at things holistically, even bards can at least be on par with sorcerers (particularly Lore), despite the lack of inherent blasting power. Plus, sorcery points can run out fast.


Even so, I decided to hedge in case my perception was skewed somehow. Hence, my intentional focus on flavor over power. That's why Storm has Fog Cloud instead of Thunderwave, for example.

No, I haven't been following that thread. I have followed enough before and they all pretty much seem to turn out the same. Possibly this one is different but I tend to also follow a rule of thumb to not start reading any thread over 3 pages.

And yes, wizard is one of the classes that is more powerful (in my opinion) than the sorcerer. Probably the bard as well. But I think that if you need to justify a buff to a class by comparing it to a wizard you are doing something wrong. If you compared it to a barbarian or rogue and used that to justify a buff I would be a lot more sympathetic to the need.

I think it's fine to look at the sorcerer and the wizard and think there should be a change. I just think it's wrong to want to change the sorc not the wizard. I think it's the wizard out of balance with the rest of the classes.

[Solusek]

Wild Magic
-Should have a table of spells that they can roll after a long rest to see what spell they get for each level


I love the idea of wild mage getting random bonus spells, but I feel like changing it every rest would be a huge pain for book keeping. Rerolling them every level-up sounds more reasonable, but even that is bordering on being more fiddly than I would prefer. What about having the wild mage roll on the random table twice for each bonus spell and choose which of the 2 rolls they want to keep forever.

[Man_Over_Game]

Draconic

1- Chromatic Orb
2- Dragon's Breath
3- Fly
4- Fire Shield (draconic element)
5- Cone of Cold (draconic element)

Wild Magic
-Should have a table of spells that they can roll after a long rest to see what spell they get for each level

Shadow

1- Arms of Hadar
2- Shadowblade
3- Hunger of Hadar
4- Evard's Black Tentacles
5- Enervation

Storm

1- Thunderwave
2- Warding Wind
3- Call Lightning
4- Storm Sphere
5- Control Winds

Divine Soul

1- Bless
2- Spiritual Weapon
3- Spirit Guardians
4- Guardian of Faith
5- Flame Strike

I like most of these, although I feel like Divine Soul has too much emphasis on being a Divine Purifier than a Divine Priest. Replace Spirit Guardians with Daylight, and Spiritual Weapon with Healing Spirit, and I could see it working out well.

I'm also not a fan of "conditional" spells. Nobody else has to deal with additional bookkeeping, why should adding an option for Sorcerers do the same? There are enough mind-domination and multiple-element stuff for Draconic, and enough chaotic magic for Wild, for a spell list to be easy to complile.

Draconic is pretty close, but "Fly" feels more like "Telekinesis" compared to normal flight through wings. It's also redundant with your Draconic feature. Replacing it with Fear feels right. I'd set the level 4 spell to Elemental Bane and 5 to Dominate Person.

Paelus's list for Wild Magic is perfect, although I might recommend Destructive Wave for the 5th level spell to work around the multiple defensive options you already have.


One difficult thing to manage is that most bonus spell lists consist of about 50% of spells from outside spell lists. Easy for Divine Soul (Cleric spells are generally ONLY for Cleric), but difficult for Draconic (as most spells you'd imagine with dominating, fear-inducing, elemental dragons are already Sorcerer spells).

[Necromas]

I would like to see metamagics have a 0 cost and then a regular cost option.

Hmmm I wonder what some 0 cost options could be....

[HPisBS]

Hmmm I wonder what some 0 cost options could be....
How about

Automatic Spell - This metamagic allows you to maintain concentration on two spells simultaneously. To do so, spend a number of sorcery points equal to the concentration spell’s level. On a subsequent turn, you may cast a second concentration spell that is of an equal or lower spell level, simultaneously maintaining concentration for both. The second spell can't be twinned. You may spend 0 sorcery points to concentrate on two cantrips in this way.

Whenever something like damage forces you to make a Concentration Save, you must make a separate save for each spell you're concentrating on, and must declare which roll is for which spell beforehand. Only one spell at a time can be an Automatic Spell.

Boosted Spell (Enhances Empowered Spell) - You may re-roll one of the spell's initial damage dice once. You must use the new roll. This can't be combined with any other metamagic option, including Empowered Spell. You must choose this option before rolling for damage.

You learn this metamagic option when you learn Empowered Spell, without counting against your number of metamagics known.

Close Spell - When the distance to the target of your spell is less than 1/4 of the spell's range, or you are grappling the target of a touch spell, you may spend 0-2 sorcery points to increase your spell attack or spell save DC for that target by 1 + 1 per sorcery point spent.

If the spell has an area of effect, the attack roll or DC increase only applies to the creature closest to the spell's point of origin.

Condensed Spell - If you cast a spell with an area of effect of at least 20 ft on a side, or 15 ft radius, you may spend 0 sorcery points to reduce the given dimension of that spell by 5 ft while increasing the initial spell save by +1 at the area's center.

Alternatively, you may spend 2 sorcery points to reduce the area of effect by half, and impose disadvantage on the initial save for every creature within 5 ft of the area's point of origin.

Elemental Cantrip (Enhances Elemental Spell) - When you cast a cantrip that deals a type of damage from the following list, you can change that damage type to one of the other listed types without spending a sorcery point: acid, cold, fire, lightning, thunder. (from the Variants UA)

Steady Cantrip (Enhances Careful Spell) - When you cast a cantrip that normally includes an attack roll or spell save, you may spend 0 sorcery points to forgo that roll and deal half damage instead. This can't be combined with any other metamagic option, including Empowered Spell.

You learn this metamagic option when you learn Careful Spell, without counting against your number of metamagics known.

Widened Spell - You may spend 0-3 sorcery points to increase one dimension of the spell's area of effect by 5 ft + 5 ft per sorcery point spent. If applied to a sphere or circle, increase the diameter. You can't increase a spell's area of effect beyond double its original area in this way.

Overlord's version doubles the aoe.



These last two aren't 0-point options, but I really like:

Maximized Spell - Increase the effective spell level by 1 per sorcery point spent, to a maximum of your highest level spell slot.

Persistent Spell - When you cast a concentration spell, you may spend any number of sorcery points to make it persist for a number of rounds after your concentration ends equal to the number of sorcery points you spent. However, you still lose any ability to exert control over the spell after your concentration ends.

This metamagic can't extend a spell's duration beyond its maximum duration.

[Man_Over_Game]

I thought the intent was to introduce 0-cost metamagics that relate to the subclass.

For example, Draconic gets:

Converted Spell:

When you cast a spell that deals damage of a potential element for a Draconic Sorcerer's dragon bloodline, you can instead change that damage type to your chosen Draconic Bloodline element.

You are able to use another Metamagic when using Converted Spell.

[JumboWheat01]

I thought the intent was to introduce 0-cost metamagics that relate to the subclass.

For example, Draconic gets:

Converted Spell:

When you cast a spell that deals damage of a potential element for a Draconic Sorcerer's dragon bloodline, you can instead change that damage type to your chosen Draconic Bloodline element.

You are able to use another Metamagic when using Converted Spell.

All my Green Draconics would love that so. Poison gets no love.

[Nagog]

If I'm not mistaken, Domains gain spells at 1, 3, 5, and 7th levels because that's when they gain access to those levels of spells. I'd adhere to that for Sorcerers as well.

Also, specifically in the case of the Divine Soul but also just in general, I'd say that the subclass spells could come from the Sorc list in a similar way that some Domains have Cleric spells as their Domain Spells. You're getting them for free, and if it fits the theme, it fits the theme. Imagine if the Life Cleric didn't have spells like Cure Wounds on it's domain list. It simply wouldn't make sense!

In that light, I'd say Draconic should obviously have Dragon Breath, but also Fireball, Wall of Fire, and Burning Hands, perhaps with a stipulation that they deal the damage type of their draconic heritage. It would definitely peak my interest to have a Fireball that deals Acid damage or Cold damage.
Wild Magic should have Chaos Bolt, Enhance Ability, Hypnotic Pattern, and Confusion.
Shadow would have Bane, Darkness, Bestow Curse (or Meld into Stone?) and Freedom of Movement
Storm could have Thunderwave, Gust of Wind, Call Lightening, and Control Water.
For Divine Soul, I'd just think to give them the hallmarks of the Cleric list. Cure Wounds, Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, and Death Ward(Or Divination?). They're obviously all Cleric spells, but when you've got access to 2 spell lists as the main mechanic of the subclass, having a few from a 3rd can get a tad dicey.

[HPisBS]

I thought the intent was to introduce 0-cost metamagics that relate to the subclass.

That would be really cool, too. But no, SpawnOfMorbo was specifically talking about changing the base class, not each subclass.


For example, Draconic gets:

Converted Spell:

When you cast a spell that deals damage of a potential element for a Draconic Sorcerer's dragon bloodline, you can instead change that damage type to your chosen Draconic Bloodline element.

You are able to use another Metamagic when using Converted Spell.


All my Green Draconics would love that so. Poison gets no love.

That kinda already exists via the "Elemental Spell" option from Variants UA, for 1 sorcery point.
- - Edit: Oh wait. No, poison is excluded from that list. You're right, poison gets no love. Clearly, this isn't Bofuri lol




If I'm not mistaken, Domains gain spells at 1, 3, 5, and 7th levels because that's when they gain access to those levels of spells. I'd adhere to that for Sorcerers as well.

Also, specifically in the case of the Divine Soul but also just in general, I'd say that the subclass spells could come from the Sorc list in a similar way that some Domains have Cleric spells as their Domain Spells. You're getting them for free, and if it fits the theme, it fits the theme. Imagine if the Life Cleric didn't have spells like Cure Wounds on it's domain list. It simply wouldn't make sense!
. . .

Sure, if it's a uniquely perfect fit, then it's a perfect fit. But it's not like they went out of their way to use base Cleric spells. Of the 120 domain spells, only 47 are on the Cleric spell list. That's ~ 39%.
1st = 7 / 24
2nd = 8 / 24
3rd = 13 / 24
4th = 8 / 24
5th= 11 / 24

The way I see it, the more you pull from outside the base class's list, the more unique the subclass makes the PC feel.

The same goes for utility spells. Again, I specifically tried to steer clear of damaging spells whenever something else was about as appropriate - especially when the other thing isn't on the Sorcerer's list while the damaging one is.


Let's take Dragon's Breath as an example. It's tied with Chaos Bolt and Call Lightning for the most obvious of all thematic Origin choices. I strongly considered using it, but, there's two marks against it: it's a damaging spell (we're trying to avoid those in order to minimize any "omg, non-official fixes are always so OP!" -type criticism), and the Dragon Sorc can - and probably will - already learn it anyway.

Contrast that to Alter Self. There's an argument to be made that altering your own body to be more physically draconic is even more flavorful than a breath evocation that you can give to whoever you want. Alter Self meets the non-damaging criteria, and while it is on the Sorcerer's base list, the "draconic eyes" part I added isn't.

I also considered Bestow Curse and Bane for Shadow. Especially Bestow Curse. But none of the subclass features or fluff are really very jinx-y. They're all just... shadows. lol

[Man_Over_Game]

I also considered Bestow Curse and Bane for Shadow. Especially Bestow Curse. But none of the subclass features or fluff are really very jinx-y. They're all just... shadows. lol

Hound of Ill Omen does. Not only does it chase down your target, but the target suffers Disadvantage on your spells while adjacent to your hound.

[HPisBS]

Even that is really just turning shadows corporeal and animating them to do a thing.

I personally conceptualize its imposing disadvantage vs your saves while it's next to the target as it acting like some kind of remote amplifier for your magic. Or, alternatively, it's just really good at distracting them from your spells lol

A jinx / curse is more like consistent, unexplainable misfortune.