if you could: take Clone as sorcerer? (Wish banned)

[Chrizzt]

Hello folks!

I'm playing a shadow sorcerer approaching lvl 15. We have some home brew rules.

Appearantly, wish spell will be banned, so that is off the table at lvl 17, which might be relevant for the later points.

But: sorcerers at our table get a bonus spell for spell lvl 1 to 5 (like a clerics domain list - though not all are good, mine included shadows of moil and invisibility, which is nice).

Now: due to heavy and well founded rp reasons, I might get my DM to let me pick the clone spell for one of my spells known, even though it usually is wizard list only.

I'm unsure, however, if this is worth it. Because if you are lucky, you won't even need it. If you do, it might save your char. I guess I would be stuck with it forever as one of my spells known.

At later lvls I might be able to pick a dm home brewed kind of epic prc class after lvl 20 which allows me to switch 2 lower lvls spells known each day, so the cost for the one clone spell known and stuck on my list might decrease in the future.

What would you say: given the circumstances, do you think clone is worth it?

Thank you for your counsel!

(Ps: other classes are adapted by the dm as well, though the changes are too numerous to list them here)

[ProsecutorGodot]

My only gripe with Clone is that it's not something I would typically associate as a "player spell" because when your player picks it, it usually ends up resolving like this: the player has a clone sitting in the background that either hasn't matured by the time they die or the campaign ends in the 4 months between when you cast the spell and the opportunity to actually use it arises.

It's especially debilitating for a Sorcerer to take this spell unless you've opted to use the revised rules that allow you to change spells through a long rest. This is one less high level spell to use regularly in exchange for what will likely be a single use spell, if you ever successfully use it at all.

Clone would be the spell this Sorcerer takes in the epilogue (or level 19/20 with no better options) and the character lives long and eventful lives. I don't think it's worth it for you to pick up now unless you can guarantee 4 months of downtime.

[iTreeby]

I'd only take clone if I could also get magic jar.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Meh.

Clone isn't much fun outside of the white room theory crafting scenarios.

I would grab Mind Blank or Maze. Twin Spell might be a bit too much on the shenanigan side though.

[Chrizzt]

Thank you all for your input!

@ ProsecutorGodot
As we are often playing in a sandbox kind of way, 4 month of downtime will certainly occur some day. As I said, I will probably not be able to switch it out if I pick it, but also in a roleplaying kind of way I find it very interesting, because it seems like one of the surest ways to achieve immortality. As my character is a vampire-like Count with his own castle, using a coffin (as per the spell description) hidden in the vaults of the castle seems quite stylish and roleplay appropriate.
Given that our DM already gave sorcerers a few bonus spells known, I think I would be able to cope with the one spell bound. And if I ever get the PrC which lets you pick 3 spells known (capped at lvl 6) per long rest at Levels past 20 (so our campaign might not end then!), it is already quite close to the revised rules you mention.

@ Lall:
My char owns a castle which is also partly the base of the other chars, and he already made allies with people on other planes, where he might be allowed to hide away clones. At least one of those is very... inaccessible.

@iTreeby:
What is the synergy with magic jar? Please explain :)

@ SpawnOfMorbo:
Hm.. I'm not sure I will be allowed to pick mind blank or maze. It is because of RP reasons that clone spell might be allowed (because we met one of the most accomplished necromancers of the home brew setting, with whom my char is on very good terms).

I'm still looking forward to getting more input on this regard. Or hints about spells which give additional synergy with it (like with demiplane mentioned, or magic jar, though I'm still waiting for the trick about the latter one)

[Theaitetos]

Losing Wish as a sorcerer is extremely bitter, because it's the one spell that finally allows you access to the Wizard spell list, and it is so very versatile, which is of paramount importance to a sorcerer.

I'd ask your DM if it were OK to just limit Wish in regards to what it can do, e.g. only duplicate spells, or only duplicate spells from the sorcerer & wizard spell-lists, ...

If it's off the table completely, maybe ask for another 9th-level spell instead like Shapechange or True Polymorph, depending on whether you have the Extended or Twinned metamagic.

[Chrizzt]

Losing Wish as a sorcerer is extremely bitter, because it's the one spell that finally allows you access to the Wizard spell list, and it is so very versatile, which is of paramount importance to a sorcerer.

I'd ask your DM if it were OK to just limit Wish in regards to what it can do, e.g. only duplicate spells, or only duplicate spells from the sorcerer & wizard spell-lists, ...

If it's off the table completely, maybe ask for another 9th-level spell instead like Shapechange or True Polymorph, depending on whether you have the Extended or Twinned metamagic.

Yes, I know. I tried to explain it to him, that this hits sorcerers unproportionally hard (Wizards have the largest spell list and can prepare each day new spells; bards who could take the spell via spell secret have, well, spell secrets and are not bound to the bard list as it is and have, at least by default, more spells known than sorcerers).

He was not to be convinced, though he usually is open to reasonable arguments.

But coming level 17, I will certainly try again.

[micahaphone]

Yes, I know. I tried to explain it to him, that this hits sorcerers unproportionally hard (Wizards have the largest spell list and can prepare each day new spells; bards who could take the spell via spell secret have, well, spell secrets and are not bound to the bard list as it is and have, at least by default, more spells known than sorcerers).

He was not to be convinced, though he usually is open to reasonable arguments.

But coming level 17, I will certainly try again.

Show him a homebrew spell, something like

Weave Affinity
Sorc level 9
Casting time: 1 action
VSM(golden plated wishbone worth X)
A sorcerer near the top of their game can, once per day, innately bend the raw material of magic into whatever shape they want. Upon casting this spell, you instantly cast one spell of 8th level or lower, from any spell list, requiring no expensed material components

[Chrizzt]

Show him a homebrew spell, something like

Weave Affinity
Sorc level 9
Casting time: 1 action
VSM(golden plated wishbone worth X)
A sorcerer near the top of their game can, once per day, innately bend the raw material of magic into whatever shape they want. Upon casting this spell, you instantly cast one spell of 8th level or lower, from any spell list, requiring no expensed material components


Its probably a good idea to present him something like this. Perhaps in two versions: The other one toned down to include only wizard/sorcerer(/perhaps bard) spells to keep it in the arcane territory?

[Galithar]

Its probably a good idea to present him something like this. Perhaps in two versions: The other one toned down to include only wizard/sorcerer(/perhaps bard) spells to keep it in the arcane territory?

Honestly even limiting to just Sorcerer spells would still add some versatility. I'm sure there are a few decent sorcerer spells you'd like to have, but just couldn't afford them with the MASSIVE number of spells known you get. Of course keeping Wizard in there would be far more valuable, but sometimes you might just have to take what you can get.