Pantheon Help!

[Undyne]

Are there any good ways to make new gods that don't feel like just a Name, Alignment, Domain(s), and Holy Symbol? My players tend to ask about stories and rituals of their god, and I just draw blanks when they do.

[Man_Over_Game]

Are there any good ways to make new gods that don't feel like just a Name, Alignment, Domain(s), and Holy Symbol? My players tend to ask about stories and rituals of their god, and I just draw blanks when they do.

Drawing from how our myths are developed will help give some guidance here.

Thunder is destructive and powerful, and so what is Thor?
Fire is fickle, being friend and foe in different hours, and so what is Loki?

"Theras, the God of Rain, was born when Igthantas shed tears over the loss of his lover and only friend, who passed by birthing the world. Those tears formed into the powerful and uncaring Theras, who squelches the fires of passion and chaos in the world.

She was the first of her siblings, and so first witnessed her father's apathy towards his children over the loss of their mother. She also is also affiliated with duty, fog, and rebirth, and so has a motherly bond to the hidden, young, and meek. A common ritual to celebrate Theras is pouring a bowl of cold water down your face to drip off of your chin, although a smaller ritual is performed by dipping a finger to drip in the air until dry. The ideal is that you're washing away impurities or tears (which are the same thing to Theras).

She is born of tears, but sheds none of her own, and celebrating her helps stave off things that would cause you harm while washing off bad omens. However, she hates hypocrites, and invoking her can only bring harm if you are too remorseful to take action, although she approves those who push through their grief. Both consequences are especially true if your actions involve children."


Simply put, think of how their Domain (elemental anomaly) was born, what personality they'd have based on that birth, and how a ritual or action might reflect their domain and their personality. In my examples, the rain is representative as tears, and yet she is against shedding tears. It creates both a personality effect and an elemental effect. Integrate both into everything, and it's pretty easy to flesh out a diety.

[Lupine]

*clip*

MOG creates the Goddess of the Ice Bucket Challenge.

[igordragonian]

Are there any good ways to make new gods that don't feel like just a Name, Alignment, Domain(s), and Holy Symbol? My players tend to ask about stories and rituals of their god, and I just draw blanks when they do.

You can be inspired from real religions, to get a feel.
Like, anny religion answer needs of societies and cultures.

For example, in one of my setting, I made the 'Lamb God', which is a martyr god, and very inspired by Jesus.
I don't write whole bibles for my gods- I have a concept, and when I get the 'feel' I can answer my players's questions.


if it a war god, then is he more triibal? then, war chants like of the Zulu would fit.

[Man_Over_Game]

MOG creates the Goddess of the Ice Bucket Challenge.

HAH! Didn't catch that! :biggrin:

[Evaar]

Are there any good ways to make new gods that don't feel like just a Name, Alignment, Domain(s), and Holy Symbol? My players tend to ask about stories and rituals of their god, and I just draw blanks when they do.

Read this as an example, see if it gives you any inspiration:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?450352-Wee-Jas-the-First-Lich

[RedMage125]

As other posters have said, you can draw from a lot of sources. FR has an extensive pantheon, and if your deities are similar to theirs, you could cherry-pick a few things from them.

For example, the eldest and most ancient deities of my world are Adonathiel (NG god of Sun, Health, Time, Good Luck) and Asharaska (NE goddess of Darkness, Vengeance, Loss, and Bad Luck). Before they became enemies, they cooperated to create the world. The Nature god, Silhain, is the sentience of the world. They also created magic, which became the goddess Sacerai. And so on and so forth.

Adonathiel, as a Sun god, has a great deal of windows in his temples, often stained glass. His clergy promote athletic events and run hospitals. Asharaska, by contrast, is a very secretive deity, and her faith operate in largely secluded sects, and meet in secret. Larger cities may even have more then one operating and unaware of each other.

Holy days can be whatever you decide. If any of your deities are ascended mortals, their clergy may celebrate the day they ascended. If your deities is famous for the defeat of a particular enemy, that day may be a holiday. Deities related to agriculture may have festivals at harvest time. Wild nature deities may celebrate solstices and equinoxes. War deities may celebrate the anniversaries of particular battles, and so on.

Hope that helps inspire something for you.

[Nagog]

Honestly, I have no idea. I imagine it's similar to building the culture of a world, it takes time and deeper thought.

In my world, the Gods are fairly hands off, and the deific figures in their place are different aspects of Fate, who long ago was shattered. Each fragment (or Ideal) answers to a larger piece (an Aspect) for example, Hate, Greed, Pride, and Envy are some of the Ideals who form he Aspect of Evil. They don't each have names beyond the concept they emulate. Worship of them is typically worship of Fate, which typically takes the appearance of classic divination (not the school of magic, but the concept behind it), from the clarity of sages and oracles to the grimier aesthetic of soothsayers and shamans. No need for alignment for a superdeity that covers all aspects of reality, and holy symbols can be literally anything, as all things were created by the writings of Fate.

[Pex]

Borrow/Steal from real life references. A war god takes elements from Sun Tsu or Nietzsche. A justice god takes elements from Superman or Captain America. The love god could be The Princess Bride or Odysseus' wife Penelope.

[Tawmis]

Are there any good ways to make new gods that don't feel like just a Name, Alignment, Domain(s), and Holy Symbol? My players tend to ask about stories and rituals of their god, and I just draw blanks when they do.

Definitely draw inspiration from others. For example, my first homebrew world - there was little difference between the gods (this was when D&D was on 2nd edition). As I DM'ed, I realized, that I wanted it to be a mixture of Norse/Greek type mythos so the gods continued to evolve to become more than just names. Then I played a game called Realms of Arkania that really helped me find a focus to my deities. They continue to evolve. But now (with the same world setting that's simply changed over time), I now have an entire history of my deities - the wars they raged and what not. Some of it still borrows from D&D mythos (for example, why elves and orcs hate one another; I had the Elven goddess shoot out the orc god's eye - and that his blood that fell upon the world is what corrupted humans to change into orcs, for example, giving birth to a sheer hatred of elves). I also drew inspirations from monsters too - for example, in my world - Giants are descendants of the gods (Titans who lost their immortality, and such).

[GigaGuess]

For my pantheon, I went less with "domain" and more with "the prime god had tasks he needed fulfilled, and ascended mortals to fill these tasks." As such, I went for more of a tarot/zodiac feel for them (The Dreamer, The Sentinel, The Gardener, etc) giving players the freedom to align with more personal justification.

[Seclora]

I've had this problem before as well, and have actually made the problem a world building component.

There are three groupings of deities: those older than memory, those who usurped them from beyond, and those who have ascended through legend.

In the first category we have the classic 3.5/Greyhawk deities, most whom are faded or dead, but who's influence can still be found and felt. Pelor's Paladins have only recently died out, even though he himself was defeated millennia ago. Corellon remains a figure in the worship of the Elves, more out of tradition than actual faith, and his songs are still sung to Elven children.

In the second we have Real World deities, like Odin, Brigid, Hades, and Ra. Some have taken on new roles in seeking to defeat the old. Odin is the patron of Orcs because his spear wielding, one-eyed appearance allowed him to easily insert himself into the worship of the Orcs, even though he constantly struggles to bring their violent tendencies around to the poetry and storytelling he enjoys as well. Brigid (the Irish goddess/saint) was able to bring many Goblins into her sway by providing them with a fertile river valley where they could be safe from recruitment by Hobgoblins, but is also worshipped by those who work rivers, many women, and even farmers. Hades works with a number of other underworld denizens, such as Nepthys(Egyptian goddess of Mourning) and Anubis(silent recorder of truth), to fill the ever important role of Psychopomp, but he's also taken up Pelor's role of enemy of undeath after defeating Nerul and developing a strong distaste for Undeath.
All of them originate from beyond the known universe, and appeared at a time when the old gods had grown too weak to answer their people's prayers. Even they are not sure how they arrived, and most are too busy to speculate. Most of their celebrations are drawn from real world examples, along with many of their practices. The average NPC doesn't really care for the gods, and it shows in their influence.

Then we have 'native' ascended deities. Rora, the daughter of an Orcish Chieftan who awoke from a dream of many years to lead the Orcs across the world and unite them with a circle of druids who work to restore the magical fallout of an ancient war. Together they have made a homeland where few save the most zealous of Elves bother them. She was ascended by being gifted a share of power from Luthic, wife of Gruumush, in order to keep the Orcish people safe from Odin's wider machinations. She sends the spirits of Orogs into the Orcish people, and guides them to become Paladins in protection of the future of the Orcish people. Her ascension day is celebrated, but often quietly as Odin still holds the popular faith of the Orcs.
Then there is The Stranger. Because one of my players kicked another player through a time portal, because he felt like being a jerk that day and the other player thought it would be funny, and he managed to survive 8000 years of tumultuous history while spreading his own legend effectively enough to become a legendary Folk Hero on the lines of Robin Hood. The powers that be(i.e. me) made him a god so he couldn't undermine history anymore.

[ChildofLuthic]

After I have a few basic ideas for gods, I tend to write long stories about how the gods created the world, as told by mortals. This gives me lots of events the gods were involved with, which I can base rituals around (since so many rituals are just symbolic retellings of myths.) This also gives me a feel for their characterization, and what they would be involved with, including some stuff that might not seem apparent at first. (Maybe your edgy war god lost an eye in a battle, so he's also said to take care of the blind and severely maimed.)

Furthermore, writing a long story can give you a lot of side characters that aren't important, which mirrors how many gods in the real world are just side characters. I have a god of androgyny in my world that did nothing except for die and write down what he saw happening from the underworld. Stuff like that just makes a mythology just feel full.

[deljzc]

In my opinion if you want to create more backstory and interest in your pantheon, start simple and REDUCE the number of relevant gods. The fewer gods you have to worry about, the fewer stories/details you need to have.

One of the hardest thing about D&D pantheons is they have stacked onto each other over the generations of literature. There could also be 25 "human" deities and 10 deities for each race (including huminoids, giants) and don't forget devils/demons.

All of a sudden you're looking at a pantheon with 60-70 individuals and it becomes hard to make them feel "unique" other than being described just by domain, alignment and sphere of influence.

It is hard to thin the herd of deities in D&D. Most players seem to have favorites. Most players seem to want deities for the races (although this is one of the prime ways to try to reduce them - see 4th edition).

It is up to you how you want to possibly explain why there are FEWER gods in your setting than normal.

[LudicSavant]

Read this as an example, see if it gives you any inspiration:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?450352-Wee-Jas-the-First-Lich

Hey, I wrote that :smallbiggrin:

And of course there's a bunch more like it in my sig (though I've also got a second half of the pantheon that's not posted on GitP).

[deljzc]

This is how I run my pantheon for my simplified Greyhawk setting:

In an attempt to simplify and unify the various pantheons of the Dungeons & Dragons universe (included Greyhawk, human racial deities, demihuman deities, huminoid deities and “specials”), I have created the following well-rounded list of deities to choose from and widened their clerical domain specializations.

Deity Alignment Domains Clerical Domains Symbol(s)

Heironeous LG (LN,NG,N) Chivalry, Valor, Justice War, Tempest Fist with Scale, Lightning Bolt
Paladine/Rao LG (NG,CG) Charity, Leadership, Law, Light War, Light Silver Triangle, Dragon, Rose
Moradin LG (LN,NG,CG,N) Creation, Earth, Dwarves Knowledge, War Hammer and Anvil
Pelor NG (LG,CG,LN,N) Sun, Agriculture, Healing Life, Light Sunburst
Avandra NG (LG,CG,N) Luck, travel, halflings, freedom Trickery, Nature Three Wavy Lines
Istus NG (Non-E) Fate, fertility, marriage, time Knowledge, Life Spindle and Thread
Corellon Larethian CG (LG,NG,N,CN) Magic, Arts, Moon, Stars, Elves Knowledge, Nature Crescent Moon & Star
Aphrodite (LD) CG (Any) Love, Beauty, Passion Light Seashell

Ravenna LN (LN,N,LE) Death, Birth Life, Death Raven head
St. Cuthbert LN (LG,N) Wisdom, Common Sense, Zeal Knowledge, Life Starburst, Cudgel
Garl Glittergold(LD) LN (Non-E) Machination, Crafting, Gnomes Trickery Gold Nugget

Ehlonna N (Non-E) Mother Nature, Change Nature, Tempest, Life Tree of Life
Luxos N (Any) Knowledge, magic, wealth, logic Knowledge, Light Eye of Providence

Krom CN (Non-L) Combat, strength, earthquakes War, Tempest Mountain
Loki CN (CG,CE,N) Trickery, thieves, deception Trickery, Knowledge Twisted snake, trinity knot
Poseidon CN (Non-L) Seas/Oceans, Storms Tempest, Nature Trident

Hextor LE (LN,NE) War, Discord, Domination, Order War, Tempest Fist of Arrows
Asmodeus (LD) LE (NE,CE) Tyranny, Lawyers Trickery Red/Black Pentagram, Goat
Tiamat (LD) LE (NE,CE) Wealth, Greed, Vanity Trickery, War 5-Headed Dragon, Color Wheel
Hades N(E) (Non-G) Underworld, the Dead Death, Life Black Ram
Cthulhu NE (Non-G) Dream World, Evil, Madness Death, Tempest Mind Flayer Head
Vecna (DG) NE (LE,CE) Secrets Knowledge Eye in a Left Hand Palm
Iuz (DG) CE (CN,NE) Pain, Oppression Death, War Grinning Skull
Gruumsh CE (CN,NE,N) Warriors, Humanoids War, Death Lidless, Boney Eye
Hekate CE (CG,CN,N,NE) Necromancy, Witchcraft, Night Knowledge, Trickery Torches and Dark Moon
Lloth (LD) CE (NE,LE) Spiders, Lies, Lust Trickery, Death Black Widow


In my Greyhawk setting, the story and history of the Gods is somewhat simple. Ea is the One God in the beginning; creator of the Cosmos out of Void. In the beginning (of this universe at least), Ea created greater deities to manufacture the material planes as they see fit. These “Old Gods” are as follows:

Moradin, Pelor, Istus, Corellon, Ehlonna, Poseidon, Hades, Gruumsh

Cthulhu is uniquely ancient and alien and no one (even the gods) know where it came from. Ea might have accidently created him or he is a relic of the void itself. There is also rumor of Satan, the first God created by Ea in his image. But he is not involved with this world nor even known. His interest is in different multiverses.

The “Old Gods” are unique in that their power is derived from Ea itself and not a function of the “worship” of mortals on the Material Plane. All other deities (and there are many throughout the outer planes, more here than could possibly be listed), are relevant based on their importance in the Material World (in this case Greyhawk itself).

The stories of the “Old Gods” are universal. Moradin created the earth and forged the dwarves with his anvil. Corellon created the elves and Gruumsh in his anger created the orcs to counter them. How Ehlonna oversaw the creation of nature (Ehlonna is “Mother Earth”). The brothers Poseidon and Hades divided the chaos of the seas and the darkness of the afterworld. For many generations it remained as such until the most complex and greatest creation was made by husband/wife Pelor and Istus: humans and civilization.

During this time small deities arose as the multitude of intelligent races evolved. Gnomes had Garl Glittergold. Halflings had Avandra. The many gods of evil in both Hell and the Abyss spawned bastard creations as well (Lloth and her brood of spiders and corruption of the elves into the Drow being one).

But as humanity dominated the landscape so did their piety dominate and give rise to deities. Greater deities like the brothers Heironeous and Hextor represent the “Cain/Abel” stories. Neutral deities Ravenna, St. Cuthbert, Luxor, Loki and Krom have evolved from primarily neutral human civilization in its current form (and represent those parts of civilization that are important in these times). Even the most powerful evil deities like Asmodeus and Hekate have tapped into the power of human worship to increase their prominence.

Only the original eight great deities (and Cthulhu) do not stoop so low to “fight over” worshippers. Their power is inordinate and irrefutable. But as such, these gods rarely (if ever) interact with the course of humanity on a large scale.

The same cannot be said of the others. Those deities will rise/fall over the millennium. Interest in their stories could wane and their power diminish. Other deities could rise and gain power or the worship and interest in the outer planes dwindles. No one knows.

For characters in this campaign, use the information above to help describe your character. Try to pick one of the more prominent deities as they have the ability to grant the most powerful gifts. The Gods above are real. They exist in the outer planes and interact with the Material Universe in a variety of ways.

[Chaosmancer]

Man_Over_Game had an amazing response, love that Rain Goddess and how everything fits together. It really shows the thematic aspect of the Gods, they have a set symbolism that everything revolves around

I also love Ludic Savant's various deities in their pantheon (still hoping they finish the set some day, it is truly great) and one of the most inspirational part of what he set out to do is that he made sure that each diety could be worshiped by a reasonable person. Most religions don't have the enemies of the gods as gods themselves, so I prefer for all my dieties to generally be neutral or good, and let Evil handle its own affairs.


The last thing I would personally do, and this was the inspiration to my own cosmology that is still evolving, is working with each race separately.

I never really liked the single pantheon, unless there are no racial deities, because it just doesn't work very well with how I see religion and culture intermingling. So, I took each race and figured out what kind of worship they would be most likely have, and used that to partially work out the deities.

So dwarves ended up kind of Roman Catholic in my mind, with Moradin and Berronar as the Holy Father and Mother and then a butt-ton of saints and heroes to follow them.

Meanwhile, I wrote an entire genesis story for the gnomes that explained how the family of deities led their children to this world and actually gave them a completely unique after-life.

[Chaosmancer]

Hey, I wrote that :smallbiggrin:

And of course there's a bunch more like it in my sig (though I've also got a second half of the pantheon that's not posted on GitP).

All of the puppy dog eyes

Link please?

[Evaar]

Hey, I wrote that :smallbiggrin:

And of course there's a bunch more like it in my sig (though I've also got a second half of the pantheon that's not posted on GitP).

Yeah to be honest I feel like about half my posts are just linking people to stuff you already wrote that would help them with whatever they happen to be asking.

I didn't realize the series continued outside GITP. Where would we find that?

[Wizard_Lizard]

A good way to create a dnd god, well one that I have used is to come up with festivals and celebrations for them. Have that be part of the story. Also the gods followers can tell you a lot about them.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Are there any good ways to make new gods that don't feel like just a Name, Alignment, Domain(s), and Holy Symbol? My players tend to ask about stories and rituals of their god, and I just draw blanks when they do.

Create a new deity, a fledgling, the child of two already established deities.

When the players ask, have them ask in game, have the deity work with the characters on all this stuff.

Literally spent a 5 hour session going over this stuff and everyone left happy. They kept making deals and counter offers.

[LudicSavant]

All of the puppy dog eyes

Link please?

Yeah to be honest I feel like about half my posts are just linking people to stuff you already wrote that would help them with whatever they happen to be asking.

I didn't realize the series continued outside GITP. Where would we find that?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was posted on a different forum. Like most of my campaign setting materials, it's not publicly posted on the internet. But I do have them in my notes and in my head, and my friends and I have been using them in campaigns we DM.

I've got material for all of the deities I mentioned having plans for in the old threads (like Kord, Joramy, Moradin, Sehanine, Vecna, etc), plus a couple new ones (Yurtrus, and some more Deep Ones). I've been contemplating how best to go about posting it.

Some people have been encouraging me to publish my various settings as their own standalone things, but I'm not sure how best to go about that. The Dungeon Masters Guild doesn't allow for original settings, last I checked.

Anyways, I'm hearing that despite my long hiatus, people are still very interested in me posting the second half, so message received! :smallsmile:

[Evaar]

people are still very interested in me posting the second half

Yes. You mention Maglubiyet being the "God of Hope" in one thread and I've been curious about that take ever since.

[Chaosmancer]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was posted on a different forum. Like most of my campaign setting materials, it's not publicly posted on the internet. But I do have them in my notes and in my head, and my friends and I have been using them in campaigns we DM.

I've got material for all of the deities I mentioned having plans for in the old threads (like Kord, Joramy, Moradin, Sehanine, Vecna, etc), plus a couple new ones (Yurtrus, and some more Deep Ones). I've been contemplating how best to go about posting it.

Some people have been encouraging me to publish my various settings as their own standalone things, but I'm not sure how best to go about that. The Dungeon Masters Guild doesn't allow for original settings, last I checked.

Anyways, I'm hearing that despite my long hiatus, people are still very interested in me posting the second half, so message received! :smallsmile:

If it is just setting information, you might be able to put it up on DrivethruRPG. I think that is where the game design group I was talking with for a few months was planning on putting things.

But yeah, definitely still interested

[JoeJ]

The easiest way is to use real mythologies. The PH lists the major Celtic, Greek, Egyptian, and Norse deities, all of which are extremely easy to find information about online. If you want you can change the names and a few details (although you certainly don't need to); the myths will still feel authentic because you'll be using the same archetypes that real world myths do.

If you don't change the names, you probably don't even need to bother explaining your world's religion to your players. Just tell them to pick a Greek/Norse/whatever god and they're good to go. These are gods, after all; there's no reason they can't be known both in this world and in yours.

[FirstAgeMagic]

What I like to do is just take all the Domains I can find (and any homebrews I want to include) and then just put them in pairs I find interesting. Then I decide what god that would make.

Knowledge/Tempest: God of Inspiration

Twilight/Protection: Goddess of the Moon.

Stuff like that.

[Catullus64]

When coming up with gods for a setting, I always think about gods as answers to a series of questions. If you know the answers to these questions for your setting and the people in it, then the personalities of the gods should follow from that.


How did the world come to be? What accounts for natural phenomena like seasons, earthquakes, day and night? How did mortals come into existence? How was civilization and law established?
What happens to mortals after death? Are there rewards and punishments for actions in life?
How should sentient beings treat one another? What is the best way to live? Do humanoid creatures have a higher purpose?


Now, whether or not your gods actually have anything to do with the answers to these questions, people in the setting doubtless interpret the answers to these questions in light of the gods' existence. Your players' characters, as people who have grown up in the setting, should primarily perceive the gods in relation to these questions.

Take my bog-standard pantheon as an example:


Elusha. A warrior. As a killer of monsters, he is responsible for banishing chaos and establishing order; hence, he is associated with the giving of laws. Terrifying natural phenomena like earthquakes and thunder are attributed to him.
Neti. A trickster god. As a mischevious god, he represents disruption to the social order, but is therefore a natural patron of outcasts and strangers: hence he is associated with the laws of hospitality. His theft of the moon's light contributes to its phases.
Modruna. A life and fertility goddess. The primary giver of humanoid life, and therefore an advocate of mercy and compassion. Also associated with erotic love, and all of its positive and negative attributes. Responsibility for parts of the natural world abundantly evident.
Thalnis. A god of arts. Responsible for the formation of civilization, by teaching things like language and agriculture to humankind. His decision to teach agriculture caused an imbalance in the bounty of nature, hence seasons. His decision to teach language also gave man its first concepts of evil.
Ashmadu. A goddess who serves as judge of the dead and bringer of death. The ultimate source of reward and punishment, and therefore the ultimate source of humanoid morality. Also helps instill humanoids with a sense of higher purpose.


Do these gods actually exist? Are they actually responsible for the things with which they are credited? Are they truly divine beings (which I define as beings who in some sense exist outside of space and time, who create but were not themselves created) or just ancient, powerful creatures? The answer depends on the setting and the campaign, but I always start with these godly archetypes, which are the foundation of how player characters are likely to understand the gods.