Dragon Breath vs Burning Hand every round

[Cikomyr2]

I just noticed that Dragon Breath is basically a free Burning Hands every Round for a minute, but where you need concentration but also get to pick the element.

Did I miss something? Is Dragon Breath a bit op for a lvl 2 spell?

[Ghost Nappa]

Burning Hands:

+1d6 over a Dragon's Breath of the Same Level
+Available from Level 1
+Available to some Warlocks and Clerics
-1-time use
-Set Damage Type


Dragon's Breath:

+Lasts 1 Minute - Up to 10 uses
+Can be given to Allies/Friendlies/Pets
+Can choose the Damage Type
-Uses Concentration
-Requires a Higher Spell Slot, only available at Level 5+
-Sorcerer/Wizard Exclusive


As someone currently using Dragon's Breath on a Level 12 Paladin/Sorcerer who got Dragon's Breath late, I've found Dragon's Breath to be less of a combat spell and more of a RP/Puzzle tool oddly. Want to refrigerate some fruit? Frost Breath. Want to intimidate some thug in the town's square? Let out a puff of hot air.

It's funny to give to the horse though.

[Teaguethebean]

It is good but I would say they fill a different role. Giving dragon breath to your familiar and having it spew flames every turn is far stronger than a burning hands, but often you can't afford to lose concentration off of your Hypnotic pattern or slow.

[Chronos]

Concentration is a pretty big deal. You almost always have something better you'd rather use your concentration on.

And how often is it that Burning Hands is what you'd want to do every round for an entire combat? It's not a bad spell for clearing out mooks, but a couple of rounds of Burning Hands (plus whatever the rest of your party is doing) will probably do that (at least, at the levels where either spell is particularly relevant). At that point, then, you're looking at two first-level spells vs. one 2nd-level, and the one 2nd-level is probably a more significant cost. Because once the mooks are cleared out and you're left with just the boss (if there is one), burning hands suddenly becomes a pretty poor choice of spell.

[jaappleton]

Put it on a Familiar.

And I don’t give a damn what Jeremy Crawford says, in this instance he’s wrong: It qualifies for Twin Metamagic.

[Necromas]

Dragon's breath is amazing for the first couple levels that you have it, and then quickly drops off at around level 5+. You just aren't that likely to run into a lot of fights where casting burning hands every turn is actually a good idea compared to the other options you and your party start to get in tier 2.

3d6 (avg. 10.5) just stops being a ton of damage. By level 5 your martial party members (and your warlocks/artillerists) can probably pull similar numbers or greater *per hit* and whichever character is firing the dragon's breath off is giving up any other uses of their action every time they do it.

Casting it on a familiar is kind of the exception to the norm. Depending on your DM it can mean you get basically a 3d6 free action every round which is great if you don't have something else to concentrate on. Optimizers love to gush about this option, but it's pretty dang cheesy and a lot of DMs will literally shoot it down before you get much use out of it and then you have a dead owl and are out a level 1 and a level 2 spell.

[ericgrau]

Action economy is a thing too. The first round if cast on yourself it's decidedly worse than burning hands for taking a higher level slot and your bonus action. You need 2 targets in dangerously close range just to keep up with scorching ray. If there's only 1 target nearby its pretty poor; even if you breath more than once your turn could have been spent doing more. Heck cantrips aren't far off. Are cantrips way stronger than burning hands for being infinite? I think not. Compared to shatter it doesn't keep up at all the first round, it only conserves spell slots. And if you kill foes with multiple hits rather than right away that's giving them more free attacks over time against you. And it uses concentration, a limited resource that would have additional benefit elsewhere. It's really not good if used on yourself.

Casting on a companion is the only good way to use it I think. But companions aren't invincible, and this spell puts them at dangerously close range to foes. Again it takes 2 rounds just to come out ahead of another option, and longer than that if we consider what your concentration might have been used on otherwise and again that earlier damage is better than later damage. You do get an additional cantrip or weapon attack during the first round, which helps a little. But again round 1 could have been a high level spell instead to take down a foe or two before they repeatedly hit you back. As soon as you hit level 5 there's fireball, especially if fighting a group. So maybe 3 rounds just to break even, if your familiar or other companion can even survive in melee that long. You better lay down defensive buffs on that familiar or companion just to have half a chance that it will last that long... which negates any spell slot conservation. It's nice that you can pick your energy type too, which helps maybe 1/5th of the time.

So the spell is ok, not great. And the DM really should let you cast it on a companion just to let it be useful at all. And you better protect that companion for it to even have a chance.

I'm actually playing a fighter mage designed to do the opposite right now. To lay down a spell and 2 attacks in round 1, thus burning spell slots, action surge and sorcery points right away. Because one of the simplest ways to debuff enemy damage over multiple rounds and conserve future party resources is to kill an enemy or two in the first round.

[stoutstien]

The variable damage type of dragon breath is a factor as well. Having that flexibility is nice for a relatively low level spell with a bonus action cast time. As others have stated it's best used with familiars, minions, or other NPCs that don't have conflicts in actions.
Acid spitting zombies are a personal favorite of mine.

[ericgrau]

The variable damage type of dragon breath is a factor as well. Having that flexibility is nice for a relatively low level spell with a bonus action cast time. As others have stated it's best used with familiars, minions, or other NPCs that don't have conflicts in actions.
Acid spitting zombies are a personal favorite of mine.

Very cool. Flavor points like acid spitting zombies are the #1 reason to use such a spell. Plus zombies have good HP IIRC and can often get up after being dropped. And your spell save DC and dragon breath damage is probably much better than their attack roll and damage, so there's low opportunity cost. Healing and replacing zombies is a little bit of a pain in the butt though.

[Cikomyr2]

So if I was.. To.. Say.. Give at will Burning Hand for a standard action for a Caster that has Burning Blade active, in stead of his/her attack, it wouldn't really break the game?

[Necromas]

So if I was.. To.. Say.. Give at will Burning Hand for a standard action for a Caster that has Burning Blade active, in stead of his/her attack, it wouldn't really break the game?

It's definitely a buff over dragon's breath, assuming you're talking about flame blade, but I wouldn't call it game breaking. Having a longer duration than dragon's breath (going from 1 minute to 10 minutes is the point where you can move to the next room of a dungeon and still have the spell going for the next fight) and having the option of choosing to either do the melee attack or the AoE are worth more than not being able to choose the element type. Maybe make the AoE a dex save for no damage instead of half to compensate.

Really though as long as it doesn't seem like your player is trying to squeeze you for a super optimized build don't worry too much. But don't be afraid to retcon or just have a chat about tactics with your players if it turns out the one with homebrew ends up outshining the others.