Do we know who the Elves worship?

[Fizzgig]

And what color is their quiddity?

[Peelee]

The elves worship the Elven gods, which are a specific subset of the Western Pantheon, and their deific essence would appear red, like the other Western gods.

ETA:
the reason there’s an elven pantheon is because V mentions it during the original Banjo scene. This was before I developed the entire Snarl plotline and the specific roles each pantheon was going to play in the backstory of the world. I had to retrofit the existence of the elven gods into the framework I invented later, and do so in a way that kept them separate from the unique role I needed the goblin god to play. That’s why the elven gods are described as being “sponsored” by the Western Pantheon and thus sharing their red quiddity—because if I had been planning this all from the beginning, they wouldn’t exist at all!

[ByzantiumBhuka]

This is obliquely covered in a few places. Veldrina describes herself as representing the "combined Western and elven pantheons" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0987.html), which suggests that there are numerous elven gods, including the really minor elven goddess by whom Veldrina is favored and the ancient elven god of knowledge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0081.html). Their quiddity would then seem to be red. The Giant confirms and elaborates on this in his recent Answer Post (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-2020-34406298), question 17.

Edit: Ninja'd, and quite completely.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Too bad there are elven gods. Otherwise, V would worship {scrubbed}, which is just fun to say.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

Too bad there are elven gods. Otherwise, V would worship {scrub the post, scrub the quote}, which is just fun to say.

Why not? All we know is that V worships the elven god of knowledge, and it's quite possible that the elven pantheon is made up of {scrubbed}. Plus if it's fun to say, it must be true.

[Fizzgig]

Thanks everyone!

[Fyraltari]

The notion that the Elven Gods were sponsored also implies that they were all originally mortal elves much like Dvalin and The Dark One.

Anyone pretending to misunderstand me as saying Dvalin or the Dark One used to be mortal elves rather than a dwarf and a goblin respectively, I'm on to you.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

The notion that the Elven Gods were sponsored also implies that they were all originally mortal elves much like Dvalin and The Dark One.

Anyone pretending to misunderstand me as saying Dvalin or the Dark One used to be mortal elves rather than a dwarf and a goblin respectively, I'm on to you.

Well, not necessarily...

For instance, in Sentient Movie Theater Snack World, some of the creatures there might have noticed that a lot of them were made up of paper and plastic, and some might then worship a God of Paper and a Goddess of Plastic, which might not already exist. So it might be conceivable that there would be two deities that would ascend during that world's tenure, without there actually being a physical embodiment alive on earth. Who knows-- that might even exist in this world's tenure! (Veldrina worships the elven goddess Yellowleaf, patron of yellow leaves.)

Then again, I might be misunderstanding the lore of the OOTSverse. Anyone have citations to confirm or contradict this?

[Wizard_Lizard]

The elf gods probably exist (Lore wise) because Elf gods are an almost intrinsic part of fantasy, and therefore a fantasy parody will end up having them.

[Peelee]

The elf gods probably exist (Lore wise) because Elf gods are an almost intrinsic part of fantasy, and therefore a fantasy parody will end up having them.

Imean, they definitely exist, but it actually looks like if the Giant had not made that one joke before he thought of the story they definitely wouldn't.

[D.One]

The elf gods probably exist (Lore wise) because Elf gods are an almost intrinsic part of fantasy, and therefore a fantasy parody will end up having them.

Per WoG (https://www.patreon.com/posts/answer-post-2020-34406298), the elf gods were created by Vaarsuvius, when V claimed to worship such gods (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0081.html). Thus, All hail Vaarsuvius, Bane of black dragons and Creator of gods. :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

[skim172]

In Start of Darkness, it's stated that certain elves were able to gain enough followers that they ascended to godhood. They were accepted by the other gods and, being from the Western continent, the Western Pantheon took them in. Thor mentions offhand that other individuals have similarly ascended to godhood in previous cycles that did not survive the transition - so it seems to be a recognized phenomenon.

No details are given as to how the elven gods became deified, so I choose to believe that in ages past, there came upon the scene an elven pop star who amassed such vast hordes of devoted fans that it led to her literal apotheosis, her global fame and star-power granting her actual divine power to bend reality itself - and lo, she ascended to her mighty throne of wondrous horror, where she rules with terrifying majesty. And she is named ... "Beyoncivius."

Every night, V carries out a ritual of worship, which begins with an ancient invocation - the intoned recitation of those dread forbidden verses: "...all ... the single ladies.... all ... the single ladies ... "

This is followed by the ritual of placing a ring on various items.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

Every night, V carries out a ritual of worship, which begins with an ancient invocation - the intoned recitation of those dread forbidden verses: "...all ... the single ladies.... all ... the single ladies ... "

This is followed by the ritual of placing a ring on various items.

Oh, so that's what was happening here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1046.html)! I never did understand why V was pondering on the nature of single ladies.

[Emanick]

This is obliquely covered in a few places. Veldrina describes herself as representing the "combined Western and elven pantheons" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0987.html), which suggests that there are numerous elven gods, including the really minor elven goddess by whom Veldrina is favored and the ancient elven god of knowledge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0081.html).

I dunno about numerous. The difficulty of apotheosis, and the fact that only two non-elves have evidently ever undergone that process during this world's tenure, suggests to me that there probably aren't that many elf gods, either. While I doubt the exact number of elven deities will ever be addressed in the comic (or by Rich outside of it), my guess is there are only 2-4 elf gods.

It's also entirely possible that Veldrina's deity is also V's, unless I missed something (again :smalltongue: ).

[ByzantiumBhuka]

I dunno about numerous. The difficulty of apotheosis, and the fact that only two non-elves have evidently ever undergone that process during this world's tenure, suggests to me that there probably aren't that many elf gods, either. While I doubt the exact number of elven deities will ever be addressed in the comic (or by Rich outside of it), my guess is there are only 2-4 elf gods.

It's also entirely possible that Veldrina's deity is also V's, unless I missed something (again :smalltongue: ).

I mean, the fact that Veldrina's god is described as "really minor" suggests that there's a reasonably large group of elven deities. How that would happen, I'm not sure-- but the Banjo mini-smite in DCF and the Creed of Stone both point to the idea that it's not just divine singularities like Thor's which can grant clerical powers, a bit like you don't need a black hole to generate gravity. Perhaps Veldrina's goddess is one of many of these normal elven "deities," and the Western Pantheon advertises itself as "accepting all elven singularities."

[Peelee]

I mean, the fact that Veldrina's god is described as "really minor" suggests that there's a reasonably large group of elven deities.\

Or that all elven gods are minor (like demigods, like Dvalin, who was raised to godhood and sponsored by a pantheon, most likely similar to the elven situation), and Veldrina's is one that only the elves have even heard of, or something like that.

[skim172]

Oh, so that's what was happening here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1046.html)! I never did understand why V was pondering on the nature of single ladies.

:vaarsuvius:: "To the left... to the left." (sigh) "Everything I own ... in a box to the left.

"I just didn't know about you."

[ebarde]

The fact that one of them was refered as "a really minor god" seems to imply that there is a good amount of them, enough for them to occupy multiple tiers of influence each having enough members to be recognized as a group. If there were few elven gods, I doubt that all of those distinctions would have had to been made.

[Fyraltari]

You are assuming she meant ‘minor relative to elven gods’ rather than ‘minor relative to all gods’ when she said ‘minor elven goddess’.

[ebarde]

While technically it's not incorrect to phrase it that way, it's just kind of clunky? If this is a shared trait it wouldn't really make sense to use it in a statement that was all about describing her and the god that favored her specifically. I'm not even saying that the elven gods are minor in relationship to the rest of the pantheon, just that this statement seemed to heavily imply that this deity specifically was a minor god even when compared to other elven gods. Also, it's implied that despite being a favored soul she didn't seemed to be at the top of elven society, and I feel the minor god line was thrown in there to reinforce that.

[hroþila]

I don't think it's clunky, especially when talking to non-Westerners who know next to nothing about the Western pantheon in general and the elven gods in particular. That said, I did take it as her deity being minor among elven deities, but I don't think that necessitates there being more than 3-4 elven gods in total.

[Fyraltari]

While technically it's not incorrect to phrase it that way, it's just kind of clunky? If this is a shared trait it wouldn't really make sense to use it in a statement that was all about describing her and the god that favored her specifically. I'm not even saying that the elven gods are minor in relationship to the rest of the pantheon, just that this statement seemed to heavily imply that this deity specifically was a minor god even when compared to other elven gods. Also, it's implied that despite being a favored soul she didn't seemed to be at the top of elven society, and I feel the minor god line was thrown in there to reinforce that.

Not really? Veldrina is in the habit of over explaining things and Rich needed to convey to the audience that Veldrina’s goddess was both minor and elven as set up for the fact that Veldrina doesn’t actually play an important role within the Moot and for the statement that the elven gods don’t get a separate vote from the western gods.

Putting two epiteths to a noun is perfectly normal way to describe two different facets of that thing. It can also be that one adjective is describing the noun + other adjective group because all languages are going to be ambiguous at some point but that’s what context is for and the context we have is ‘elven gods are ascended mortals’ and ‘ascending is very hard’ the conclusion ‘there are very few elven gods’ flow naturally from these two.



I mean ‘I never said he stole my money’ has seven different meanings based on emphasis alone and it’s a perfectly natural sentence.

Also it’s not implied that Veldrina isn’t ‘at the top of elven society’ as far as I can tell. However it is stated that she isn’t high within the Western + Elven church totem pole and it’s implied that’s because she is a favored soul (not a cleric) of a minor (not major) deity.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

I don't think it's clunky, especially when talking to non-Westerners who know next to nothing about the Western pantheon in general and the elven gods in particular. That said, I did take it as her deity being minor among elven deities, but I don't think that necessitates there being more than 3-4 elven gods in total.

We actually have some ear-related evidence that there are more. When the Western Godsmoot's votes are being counted, note that there are at least three clerics who have pointy ears. Given the current state of relations (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html) between elves and Western non-elves, it seems unlikely that an elf would represent anything but an ascended elf; so that would suggest that there are at least three major elven deities. That would seem to necessitate a few more minor deities than 3-4.

[Peelee]

Given the current state of relations (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html) between elves and Western non-elves, it seems unlikely that an elf would represent anything but an ascended elf

I disagree; if Ron Redhilt was a northerner who hated dwarves, he may not like Thor too much, but he'd still have his pick of the plenty other gods that are not in any way dwarf-related. And we have no reason to believe that the Western people have any sort of relation to any of their gods that the dwarves have to Thor, and we have reason to believe that is in fact not the case.

There's no reason to believe that the elves are representative of anything but the main Western gods and not purely and only the elven gods.

[Fyraltari]

We actually have some ear-related evidence that there are more. When the Western Godsmoot's votes are being counted, note that there are at least three clerics who have pointy ears. Given the current state of relations (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html) between elves and Western non-elves, it seems unlikely that an elf would represent anything but an ascended elf; so that would suggest that there are at least three major elven deities. That would seem to necessitate a few more minor deities than 3-4.
This assumes the Western pantheon organizes its vote by separating the full gods from the demigods the way the Northerners do. It also assumes that minor deity implies demigod(dess).

Edit it also also assumes that Laurin is representative of the way Westerners at large feel toward elves.

[hroþila]

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with all of that and agree with Peelee and Fyraltari.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

I am starting to come around to that very-few-ascents idea.

[Rollin]

I am starting to come around to that very-few-ascents idea.

I'll assent to it as well.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with all of that and agree with Peelee and Fyraltari.

Generally the most entertaining result is gained that way.

[Peelee]

Generally the most entertaining result is gained that way.

I take that as a badge of honor.

[Fyraltari]

Generally the most entertaining result is gained that way.

Ayyyyy!

Can I add that to my sig? (With your permission also hrothila).

[Wizard_Lizard]

Ayyyyy!

Can I add that to my sig? (With your permission also hrothila).

Permission from me!:biggrin:

[hroþila]

Ayyyyy!

Can I add that to my sig? (With your permission also hrothila).
Sure, go ahead.