Barbarian Alternate Class Feature "Stacking"

[Brennan1612]

Would I be able to take the Ape totem Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana pg48) and the Planar substitution level 3rd (Planar Handbook pg 28).

Ape totem: 3rd level, lose trap sense for the entire time you are a barbarian (unless gained from another class), but gain power attack as a bonus feat.

Planar Substitution level: 3rd level, lose trap sense +1 (you would later gain trap sense as normal, just 1 less bonus), but gain the ability to sense portals.

I don't expect or even really want both class features, i Just want the power attack bonus feat from ape totem, and the Knowledge (the planes) from the planar substitution level.

Would this work?

[ZamielVanWeber]

No. You gave up trap sense twice. You can have as many ACFs as you want, provided they all trade out different things. Ape Totem would stack with Luck of the Devil, for example, since one trades out trap sense etc and the other DR. However, in your example you trade out some trap sense and all trap sense. You don't have all to trade since you traded some and so it won't work.

[Troacctid]

I think you can still take the substitution level, but you won't gain the portal sensing ability from it.

[ZamielVanWeber]

That is the best reading I can think of. Gain the level but not the benefit you already traded away.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

I would say that if you are running an actual substitution level (Planar, racial), you can't use any variants that level(you're not a Barb 3, you're Barb 2/Planar Barb 1, so nothing that happens Barb 3 happens). Now, you should by RAW be able to take Ape Totem1/2/5 and then just not have it "activate" on 3, but that does feel like something a DM might object to(and doesn't get you the feat that's the entire reason you want Ape Totem).

Maybe dip one level of UA's Planar Ranger instead?

[SirNibbles]

I would say that if you are running an actual substitution level (Planar, racial), you can't use any variants that level(you're not a Barb 3, you're Barb 2/Planar Barb 1, so nothing that happens Barb 3 happens). Now, you should by RAW be able to take Ape Totem1/2/5 and then just not have it "activate" on 3, but that does feel like something a DM might object to(and doesn't get you the feat that's the entire reason you want Ape Totem).

Maybe dip one level of UA's Planar Ranger instead?

Wrong.

"A substitution level is a level of a given class that you take instead of the level described for the standard class. Selecting a substitution level is not the same as multiclassing—you remain within the class for which the substitution level is taken. The class features of the substitution level simply replace those of the standard class’s level.
...
To qualify to take a racial substitution level, you must be of the proper race.
" - Races of the Dragon, page 105

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Wrong.

"A substitution level is a level of a given class that you take instead of the level described for the standard class. Selecting a substitution level is not the same as multiclassing—you remain within the class for which the substitution level is taken. The class features of the substitution level simply replace those of the standard class’s level.
...
To qualify to take a racial substitution level, you must be of the proper race.
" - Races of the Dragon, page 105The "instead" is what I'm seeing there. OP's not taking Barbarian 3, OP is taking Planar Barbarian 3, which replaces all standard features of Barbarian 3.

[SirNibbles]

The "instead" is what I'm seeing there. OP's not taking Barbarian 3, OP is taking Planar Barbarian 3, which replaces all standard features of Barbarian 3.

My point was that he's still taking a level of Barbarian, just with some features traded out for others as a package, or in this case a one for one swap. Substitution levels are still levels in that class, not their own class.

I agree that he can't get Planar Barbarian and Ape Totem because they both attempt to trade the same feature.

[bean illus]

Horselord (barbarian) with whirling frenzy?

To the OP question; as dm I would allow the trade, but RAW, once trap sense has been traded for portal sense, then trap sense is no longer available to trade.