Magical Training shenanigans?

[liquidformat]

So Magical Training has the following language:


Thereafter, you have an arcane spell failure chance if you wear armor and are treated as a sorcerer or wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st) for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast.

So you are now treated as a wizard (level 1 min) for level-based variables of the spells, is there any good ways to take advantage of this fact? For example could I use this in combination with Sword of the Arcane Order without wizard levels, or other such shenanigans?

I know this community has lots of inventive people out there let me know your thoughts!

[Gruftzwerg]

So Magical Training has the following language:



So you are now treated as a wizard (level 1 min) for level-based variables of the spells, is there any good ways to take advantage of this fact? For example could I use this in combination with Sword of the Arcane Order without wizard levels, or other such shenanigans?

I know this community has lots of inventive people out there let me know your thoughts!

Imho the wording is explicitly killing any option that could be cheesed out.

It is "for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast" and only gives you a minimum caster-level of 1 for that special pursose if you don't have any arcane caster levels from other sources ( so the minimum clvl 1 doesn't stack with anything). Sorry, but I don't see any abuse potential.

[thorr-kan]

It grants you casting equivalent to a 1st-level wizard or sorcerer, but since you aren't one, prestige classes don't advance your casting ability.

Some argue that possession of a spellbook allows shenanigans adding any spell you can to it. I don't cotton to that myself.

Some argue that possession of spontaneous spellcasting can use Versatile Spellcaster to daisy chain higher level spells. I don't cotton to that either.

There are some caster level shenanigans available.

Being a spellcaster means you can use Craft (Alchemy) for alchemical creation.

Precocious Apprentice grants you a 2nd-level spell and slot. That allows use of some Reserve Feats.

A Reserve Feat gives you a spontaneous, at-will ability.

Put 4 ranks into Spellcraft, and you're qualify for Practiced Spellcaster, which eventually adds 4 to your caster level.

CL 4 qualifies for Extra Slot, which can be used for a 0-level or 1st-level slot.
At CL 3, you qualify for Extra Spell, which can give you a 0-level spell or 1st-level spell. Repeat as desired.

CL 3 and 4 ranks into Knowledge (Arcana) qualify for Obtain Familiar. CL 3 also qualifies for some Improved Familiars.

Metamagic can be used for 0-level spells in the slots from 1st-level Extra Slots.

If Dragon Magazine content is on the table, the article about Extra Familiar and the associated feats could be entertaining.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Rules Compendium, page 160, "Spellcasters who use spellbooks can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods."

So Magical Training for the Wizard version gives you a spellbook, which you use to prepare and cast those cantrips, thus you can add new spells to your spellbook via the methods detailed there (which are pretty much identical to the methods described for a Wizard in the PHB).

For characters who use spellbooks, spells they've made the Spellcraft check to learn are spells that they know. Just one example of RAW stating such is also on Rules Compendium p160, under Borrowed Spellbooks, which refers to such spells as spells they know.

So any effect that references or draws from spells a character knows can also be applied to spells you've made the Spellcraft check to learn or otherwise managed to copy into your spellbook. And you're able to do that just from taking that feat.

[Saintheart]

Not sure how much use it would be, but if you used metamagic to drop the level of a spell down to 0, this might override that and fire off a spell as if it had a minimum CL of 1 ...

[Kelb_Panthera]

It gives you an arcane caster level of 1 so you can combine it with precocious apprentice to cheese the "able to cast 2nd level (arcane) spells" requirement on a lot of prestige classes. Those PrCs won't do anything for your "wizard/sorcerer" casting from the feat itself but if you have other classes that would have a tough time making qualifications, like say warlock, dragonfire adept, or artificer....

[Anthrowhale]

Rules Compendium, page 160, "Spellcasters who use spellbooks can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods."

So Magical Training for the Wizard version gives you a spellbook, which you use to prepare and cast those cantrips, thus you can add new spells to your spellbook via the methods detailed there (which are pretty much identical to the methods described for a Wizard in the PHB).

It does give you a spellbook, and you can scribe spells, but the wording only guarantees that 3 0-level sorcerer/wizard spells are in your list. However, whether or not other spells are in your list (and hence scribable) is not specified and hence subject to DM interpretation. A conservative DM might easily say 'no' to other spells.

[Nezkrul]

Practiced Spellcaster wouldn’t work with this feat because you pick a class you have that gives you spellcasting. Magical Training is a feat, not a class.

[liquidformat]

Practiced Spellcaster wouldn’t work with this feat because you pick a class you have that gives you spellcasting. Magical Training is a feat, not a class.

The wording of Magical Training treats you as a wizard/sorcerer of your arcane caster level, so as long as you choose the same class for Practiced Spellcaster I am not seeing an issue.


It does give you a spellbook, and you can scribe spells, but the wording only guarantees that 3 0-level sorcerer/wizard spells are in your list. However, whether or not other spells are in your list (and hence scribable) is not specified and hence subject to DM interpretation. A conservative DM might easily say 'no' to other spells.

This really comes down to what being 'treated as a wizard of your arcane spellcaster level for level-based variables of the spells you cast', means. There is a pretty strong argument that the level of spells you are capable of casting is in fact a level-based variable and therefore any wizard/sorcerer spell you can get into your spellbook you are capable of casting as long as you have the spell slot to do so. Interestingly the feat might actually allow you to write sorcerer only spells into your spellbook...

[Falontani]

It gives you an arcane caster level of 1 so you can combine it with precocious apprentice to cheese the "able to cast 2nd level (arcane) spells" requirement on a lot of prestige classes. Those PrCs won't do anything for your "wizard/sorcerer" casting from the feat itself but if you have other classes that would have a tough time making qualifications, like say warlock, dragonfire adept, or artificer....

Cleric can
"lose" any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name).

So
Magical Training (Wizard) + Precocious Apprentice + Cleric = Ability to cast 2nd level arcane spell(s) and 2nd level divine spell(s) at first level. Cool.
If one wanted to argue minimum caster levels: Precocious Apprentice wins via specific vs general rule, and the Healing Domain allows you to cast Cure Moderate Wounds at first level due to meeting the minimum caster level of 3 (although this is the most iffy part really).

[Darg]

It gives you an arcane caster level of 1 so you can combine it with precocious apprentice to cheese the "able to cast 2nd level (arcane) spells" requirement on a lot of prestige classes. Those PrCs won't do anything for your "wizard/sorcerer" casting from the feat itself but if you have other classes that would have a tough time making qualifications, like say warlock, dragonfire adept, or artificer....

I never liked precocious Apprentice because the description outright forbids the level skipping cheese.

My preference is Alacritous Cogitation + Versatile spellcaster because any spell in your spell book is is considered known. This let's you get away with 1 level wizard/prep arcane and 2 feats.

To the OP, the only thing I can think of is to use magical training to qualify for Alternate Source Spell without having an arcane class level.