Lore Bard Level 11 spell choice? What would you take?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Here is what I have right now.



C
Mage Hand


C
Minor Illusion


C
Message


C
Vicious Mockery


1
Dissonant Whispers



1
Healing Word


1
Thunderwave


2
Heat Metal


2
Phantasmal Force


2
Shatter


3

Fly


3
Fear


3
Counterspell


3
Sending


4
Dimension Door


4
Polymorph


4
Find Greater Steed


4
Conjure Woodland Beings



5
Animate Objects


5
Raise Dead



Our party consists of a Wizard, Ranger, Rogue, Ranged Fighter, and my Lore Bard.

I'm thinking about swapping out Fly which I got for Silence since I can conjure Pixies who can cast Fly. Maybe not. We generally don't have the longest adventuring days. Our Wizard is damage focused and them diamonds for Raise Dead sure are difficult to come by in our world. What would you all pick and why?

Edit: Corrected Level for "Fly"

[ImproperJustice]

My top 3:

Synaptic Static for raw, non concentration based damage.

Greater Restoration because it is the best fix whatever anyone can hope for.

Awaken: just to be different and start your own random entourage of animals, plants, and dinosaurs.

Awaken is probably my favorite of the whole bunch :)


Oops: Level 6 choices!!

True Seeing: Great party buff, no concentration, cuts through all manner of nonsense. I questioned one of my PCs for choosing it for their Bard, and time and time again it has turned encounters and exploration on its head. Especially when countering enemy scrying tactics, shape changers / illusions, finding secret doors and compartments quickly, and any ethereal nonsense.

[HPisBS]

It depends on what your DM likes to throw at you.

If there's a lot of illusions, disguises, and the like, then True Seeing is the perfect (short-lived) counter.

If you have to deal with angry villages or other tense social situations with groups, or hordes of mooks, then Mass Suggestion (unless your DM is fond of things that can't be charmed).

If you tend to deal with smaller enemy parties, then Eyebite is great at removing enemies from the fight one-by-one - including those that're immune to charmed. Just avoid the Sickened option, since it's the only one that gives the target multiple saves (and thus, multiple chances to become immune).



If your DM will let you trade an old Magical Secret for a new one, then Sunbeam, Disintegrate, and Contingency are all awesome.

[Ogeeogelthorpe]

Otto's irresistible dance - Lock that bad guy down by forcing him to do the riverdance.

Or...mass suggestion - lock the whole room down by suggesting they all start a dance party. Have someone else in the group cast dancing lights and have fun with it.

If you have good party synergy then you and another bard can do both!

[BloodSnake'sCha]

If you have a good bow and dex I like to use swift quiver from the ranger list.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Dump Thunderwave or Shatter, and take Mass Suggestion and True Seeing.

"I'm thinking about swapping out Fly which I got for Silence since I can conjure Pixies who can cast Fly."

Wait...what?! Fly is one of your Magical Secrets. Is your DM allowing you to swap those out for other non-bard spells? Does your DM let you pick Pixies every time? Also, Fly is 3rd level (you've got it listed as a "2") and I can't tell if that (typo? other mistake?) is affecting your thinking here?

[Nagog]

I've found the likes of Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians to be quite effective, despite their lower levels. Spiritual Weapon is a free minion that's both concentration free and invulnerable, and Spirit Guardians is a great way to stay relevant while in the front to midline healing allies.

[HPisBS]

Dump Thunderwave or Shatter, and take Mass Suggestion and True Seeing.

👍


"I'm thinking about swapping out Fly which I got for Silence since I can conjure Pixies who can cast Fly."

Wait...what?! Fly is one of your Magical Secrets. Is your DM allowing you to swap those out for other non-bard spells? Does your DM let you pick Pixies every time? Also, Fly is 3rd level (you've got it listed as a "2") and I can't tell if that (typo? other mistake?) is affecting your thinking here?

They become Bard spells for you, and effectively putting them on your personal Bard spell list. Thus, you should certainly be able to replace a Magical Secret spell with a normal Bard spell.


But some DMs will if fact let you swap an old Magical Secret for a new Magical Secret. I certainly would, and I don't see why anyone wouldn't, other than just RAW purism.

[Guy Lombard-O]

They become Bard spells for you, and effectively putting them on your personal Bard spell list. Thus, you should certainly be able to replace a Magical Secret spell with a normal Bard spell.

But some DMs will if fact let you swap an old Magical Secret for a new Magical Secret. I certainly would, and I don't see why anyone wouldn't, other than just RAW purism.

Totally true. And I get that it's now a bard spell for the OP, and can be swapped out for another bard spell. But the "which I got for Silence" was the thing that threw me. Silence is already a bard spell. And his sentence makes it sound like he swapped out Silence for Fly, doesn't it? So, I'm just confused and wondering what he actually meant.

This whole paragraph just raised a number of questions for me. If we're trying to give him good advice, and we're basing that advice upon the RAW, then we might be doing the OP a disservice if he's operating under different rules. So I was just looking for some clarity there.

But I'd also note that he probably doesn't need both Fly and Find Greater Steed, at least not just for himself. If the whole party likes to fly around a lot, then maybe he does need both? Or, if he can reliably summon up a batch of Pixies (which is also not RAW) to handle the flying, then maybe he doesn't?

Just trying to understand what's up, so I can actually be helpful. :smallsmile:

[HPisBS]

...
Or, if he can reliably summon up a batch of Pixies (which is also not RAW) to handle the flying, then maybe he doesn't?...

Isn't it, though?

Sure, RAW only spells out how many of the conjured woodland being you get for each CR option. But, while it doesn't say "You decide the specific species of creatures," it also doesn't say "The DM decides the specific species of creatures."


But I'm with you, otherwise. I kind of auto-translated that line to "I'm thinking of trading Fly for Silence" in my head lol

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Thanks for the good suggestions! Some I though of, some I hadn't.

To this point I've always taken the best of the highest level available. Mass Suggestion was on the list. I hadn't thought of True Seeing but you know, it would have come in handy in our current campaign.

We've been seeing some mixed encounters, some large, some small but typically we're having shorter days so to say.

I do have a decent bow and Dex, especially for the type of days we have. For some time I've had an Oath Bow and a few levels ago I feel like I looked at swift quiver.

Fly (Level 3, I had a typo on my list), is one of my Magical Secrets spells. It seems a little redundant with my access to Pixies but I can straight cast it faster than summing Pixies and having them cast it. To this point I get to summon whatever I want. The DM seems happy I'm not Animating Objects lol.

Spirit Guardians is great and I really dislike being in melee with this character. We have a new Cleric I forgot about though and its one of his favorites.

Why the dislike for Thunderwave and Shatter? They don't come in SUPER handy for me lately but they are nice low level spells which accomplish something with slots I typically don't run out of and WOULD be handy during more of a grinding day.

[HPisBS]

Like you said, you don't want to be in melee, so if you're in a situation where Thunderwave is the right choice, then ya done goofed. Dissonant Whispers is generally the better use of that slot & action.

Shatter is relatively fine for what it is. But I wouldn't expect ~13 damage in a small aoe to be your best option when you're lvl 11. Unless you're fighting golems or something, it's going to be more important to have Mass Suggestion or True Seeing, and Phantasmal Force will be more helpful. (You could make one of them think a Sprite is riding on their ally's shoulder, shooting arrows at him, for instance.)

[Ashrym]

I like eyebite, mass suggestion, and true seeing. Looking at the current list lesser / greater restoration seem like important missing spells in the group.

Eyebite is a personal favorite but that's more preference than anything.

[SociopathFriend]

I'm personally quite partial to Death Ward.
It's 4th level sure but it's one of the few get out of jail free cards D&D has.

It doesn't matter how many hit points you have if you fail a Save against a Banshee Wail.
If you have little enough HP that Disintegrate would reduce you below 0- no Death Saves.
I frankly recommend that thing for everyone.

[Syjyl4488]

Since you’re the defacto healer, I would pick up an aoe heal like mass healing word....I get not picking up mass cw, but you may need to heal multiple pc’s at sm point and that could be upcast if needed