Can You Awaken A Protozoa?

[unseenmage]

Can Awaken be used on single celled or microscopic animals?

What about Hivemind?

Could you get a Hivemind-ed infection?

I'm having trouble Googling the numbers due to being not smart but I'm curious how many virus, bacteria, or protozoa a single human could harbour before becoming deathly
ill.

IIRC the number of organisms will decide the Hivemind's CL.

I'm amused by the idea of every person's microcosm being unique enough that even if the Hiveminded disease infects others the new host's worth of Hiveminded microorganisms are unique enough to be a different strain and thus a whole new Hivemind.

So you have super Sorcererous infections fighting for whatever they'd fight for with their child infections.
Like really weird vampire spawn or something.

Which makes me wonder, since Lycanthropy and vampirism are both mystical diseases could they be Hiveminded too? Or do we even have enough info to figure out if they're a viral or a bacterial mystical infection?

[OrbanSirgen]

Is a microscopic organism an animal or tree? It's obviously not a tree... Personally I think it would be an ooze instead...

[unseenmage]

Is a microscopic organism an animal or tree? It's obviously not a tree... Personally I think it would be an ooze instead...

This is why I mentioned protozoa, they're the classification for microscopic animals IIRC.

Virus and bacteria would be a stretch, but actual micro animals should work.

[heavyfuel]

Real life and D&D mechanics don't go together.

Humans are Humanoids, not animals, despite our biological definition.

AFAIK, microbes of any kind don't exist in D&D. Diseases simply happen because someone failed a Fortitude save against them. No viruses, bacteria, protozoa, etc involved.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Even if microorganisms don't count as animals, there's always the aspect of the wolf spell...

Or pull a reverse Madam Mim and use polymorph to turn a bunch of them into Diminutive-sized animals or vermin (since Fine is the smallest size category, microorganism are always Fine-sized, and polymorph is limited to +/- one size category due to the limitations on alter self). Then awaken and/or hive mind 'em and let 'em revert.

[ShurikVch]

Can Awaken be used on single celled or microscopic animals?In theory - nothing should prevent it
(Especially, if you use it on some of "bigger ones" - like Trumpet animalcules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stentor_(ciliate)), Spirostomum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirostomum), Chaos amoebae (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_(genus)), or Gromia sphaerica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gromia_sphaerica))

But in practice - you would need get stats for them somewhere


What about Hivemind?

Could you get a Hivemind-ed infection?

I'm having trouble Googling the numbers due to being not smart but I'm curious how many virus, bacteria, or protozoa a single human could harbour before becoming deathly
ill.

IIRC the number of organisms will decide the Hivemind's CL.

I'm amused by the idea of every person's microcosm being unique enough that even if the Hiveminded disease infects others the new host's worth of Hiveminded microorganisms are unique enough to be a different strain and thus a whole new Hivemind.

So you have super Sorcererous infections fighting for whatever they'd fight for with their child infections.
Like really weird vampire spawn or something.Yes, it's possible
But creation of a Hivemind - outside of the Dark Speech usage or Vermin Lord capstone - is "at the DM discretion"; Dark Unity is capped at 100 creatures - way below spellcasting -, and capstone works only on Vermins (+Vermin Lord)


Which makes me wonder, since Lycanthropy and vampirism are both mystical diseases could they be Hiveminded too? Or do we even have enough info to figure out if they're a viral or a bacterial mystical infection?Actually, neither of them are diseases: for Lycanthropy it's the Curse of Lycanthropy, and Vampires are immune to diseases



Real life and D&D mechanics don't go together.

Humans are Humanoids, not animals, despite our biological definition.

AFAIK, microbes of any kind don't exist in D&D. Diseases simply happen because someone failed a Fortitude save against them. No viruses, bacteria, protozoa, etc involved.Oh, come on!..
Just because something isn't described in the RAW doesn't mean it's not exists

Several monsters have ability to "infest", going completely inside the victim's body. You know what will happen if infested victim would be hit with Remove Disease? Infesting monster will just die instantly (no-save). Looks like very relevant example to disease healing...

[heavyfuel]

Oh, come on!..
Just because something isn't described in the RAW doesn't mean it's not exists

Several monsters have ability to "infest", going completely inside the victim's body. You know what will happen if infested victim would be hit with Remove Disease? Infesting monster will just die instantly (no-save). Looks like very relevant example to disease healing...

That's not what I said. I said that applying these lines of thought seldom relauts in good outcomes.

Getting into complicated* sciences such as biology, physics, chemistry, etc and trying to apply game rules to them is not only very abusable, it's also bound to get messy.

As for Remove Disease, the spell explicitly removes more than just diseases, despite its name

*Complicated for a game, not necessarily complicated in the sense of it being college-level specific knowledge

[unseenmage]

...

Actually, neither of them are diseases: for Lycanthropy it's the Curse of Lycanthropy, and Vampires are immune to diseases

...
I'm relatively certain they're both described as mystical diseases somewhere official.

I'm not sure it's what you meant but vampires being immune to disease doesnt necessarily mean they couldn't spread one.
Would be like a fire elemental's fire being unspreadable. :smallsmile:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Since cells in the body are technically living single-celled semi-organisms (and sperm cells definitely count as separate single-celled organisms, since they have an independent existence outside the body, albeit for a short time), could you potentially awaken and/or hive-mind those cells somehow?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Protozoa share a Domain with animals, but not a Kingdom. Awaken Animal, biologically, would not affect protozoa.

[unseenmage]

Since cells in the body are technically living single-celled semi-organisms (and sperm cells definitely count as separate single-celled organisms, since they have an independent existence outside the body, albeit for a short time), could you potentially awaken and/or hive-mind those cells somehow?

Kind of?
I imagine it to be akin to only animating or shrink item ing only the doorknob or the 3rd plank from the right kn a door.

Sure you could, but without the rest of the door the affected part has limited utility.

Could be funny to play an Awakened sperm or egg who later adds to their mental stats after fertilization and birth etc. One imagines theres a virtual age category between single cell and infant that includes adding a mind.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Kind of?
I imagine it to be akin to only animating or shrink item ing only the doorknob or the 3rd plank from the right kn a door.Actually, it could be quite useful:http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/wp-content/uploads/doorknob-disney-300x300.jpg
Should I refrain from saying anything about the knobs of doors, given the conversation in the last few posts?

[Telonius]

You might look into the Cancer Mage prestige class. It's most famous for its Festering Anger abuse, but the "Viral Agent" and "Viral Ally" abilities do a version of what you're talking about.

[OrbanSirgen]

Actually, it could be quite useful:http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/wp-content/uploads/doorknob-disney-300x300.jpg
Should I refrain from saying anything about the knobs of doors, given the conversation in the last few posts?

I prefer the version in Labyrinth...

[SirNibbles]

Is a microscopic organism an animal or tree? It's obviously not a tree... Personally I think it would be an ooze instead...

Awaken Ooze (Dragon Magazine #304, page 38).

An Awakened Ooze gets 3d6 for all mental stats and gains the Aberration type with Ooze traits.

[ShurikVch]

On a slightly related note, Protozoa should be also legal targets for Create Faux Human (The Standing Stone) and Create Frenzy Dog (http://web.archive.org/web/20160816154454/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20011025a) spells :smallamused: