Critical Advantage

[EggKookoo]

Random thought. How badly would this break the game?

If an attack roll has advantage, and both rolls are high enough to hit, it counts as a critical. So, AC = 18, and the two dice rolls are 18 and 19. This wouldn't stack with 20 being a critical, so a roll of 18 and 20 against that AC is still "just" a critical.

This is the kind of thing I'd love to playtest but I'm wary of introducing it at the table and then having to remove it.

[J-H]

Badly.
Reckless attack barbarian with AC 15 attacks enemy cleric. Enemy cleric casts Inflict Wounds at +7, needing an 8 or higher to hit. Rolls a 10 and a 12. Crit for 6d10 (or ++ for upcast) damage.
Party wizard with AC 15 (mage armor +2 dex) gets reckless-attacked by minotaur at +7. Minotaur needs an 8 to hit, rolls a 9 and a 15; crit for lots of damage, then strength save or be knocked down, then gets critted again.

[kiwi5ucker]

that would make rogues a little OP. Also a monster like an ooze with AC 8 would be annihilated by that rule. Another thing to watch out for is low AC player characters like wizards and druids. they'd get demolished by the amount of crits that would start going through them.

[DeTess]

The chance of rolling a regular crit with advantage is about 10%

With your proposed change, the odds should be something like this (if my memory of odds isn't failing me).



Roll on D20 required to hit
odds of critting


7
59%


8
52%


9
46%


10
40%


11
35%


12
30%


13
26%


14
22%


15
19%


16
16%


17
14%


18
12%


19
11%


20
~10%



As you can see, only when less than a 15 is needed to crit do the odds of a crit because of your rule trump those of a regular crit. IIRC most monsters are balanced so that at equal CR they'll take around a 12 or so to be hit, so in that region you've got significantly higher odds to crit with your rule. I don't necessarily think this'll break anything, unless your players specifically build around this rule to get the optimal sue out of their higher crit-rate.

[EggKookoo]

I thought it might be too much. Thanks for the analysis.

[JNAProductions]

The chance of rolling a regular crit with advantage is about 10%

With your proposed change, the odds should be something like this (if my memory of odds isn't failing me).

-Math-

As you can see, only when less than a 15 is needed to crit do the odds of a crit because of your rule trump those of a regular crit. IIRC most monsters are balanced so that at equal CR they'll take around a 12 or so to be hit, so in that region you've got significantly higher odds to crit with your rule. I don't necessarily think this'll break anything, unless your players specifically build around this rule to get the optimal sue out of their higher crit-rate.

I thought it was, generally, an 8 was needed. Which would would make this rule BONKERS.

[Man_Over_Game]

I thought it might be too much. Thanks for the analysis.



A better method might be to have it so that if both rolls hit, you can roll a third die to add to your chance to crit normally.

For reference:

Normal: 5% crit chance.

Advantage: 9.75

Tri-Advantage: 14.26


It'd effectively means a +5% crit chance on attacks you make against easily-hit foes. Although that would be annoying to do at the table.

[iTreeby]

Elven advantage super crit build go!

[ad_hoc]

The game is designed so that hitting is easy but getting extra damage is hard.

So agreed with others that it would be a bad rule.

(This is also why SS and GWM are overpowered. They break the design of the game.)

[Man_Over_Game]

Elven advantage super crit build go!

If I remember correctly, a character with three attacks, enhanced crit range of 19-20, and Elven Accuracy has about a 47% crit chance each turn.

Easily possible with a dual-wielding 5 Vengeance Paladin/2 Hexblade Warlock. Or just a 5 Hexblade with Devil's Sight + Darkness.

[Anonymouswizard]

It might work as a subclass ability or the like as their main way of increasing damage (similiar to the Champion's increased Crit Range), but certainly not as a standard rule.

[iTreeby]

If I remember correctly, a character with three attacks, enhanced crit range of 19-20, and Elven Accuracy has about a 47% crit chance each turn.

Easily possible with a dual-wielding 5 Vengeance Paladin/2 Hexblade Warlock. Or just a 5 Hexblade with Devil's Sight + Darkness.


I think the numbers are

1 d20 is five percent crit, improved critical makes it ten percent.
advantage makes it nineteen percent.
elven advantage makes it 27 or 28 percent per attack.

More attacks are more chances to crit but eh.