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Whit
2020-03-15, 11:26 PM
What would you suggest for the spells to get at lv 15

Bannan_mantis
2020-03-16, 01:10 AM
What would you suggest for the spells to get at lv 15

Booming blade and green flame blade are two cantrips that are very useful since their regular limitation of only performing one attack when used isn't a big limit at all for rogues since they only need one attack to deal their damage. Minor illusion or Prestidigitation are two spells really useful for utility reasons.

Invisibility is a no brainer from how it can give a big stealth boost and advantage on an attack whilst giving a level of defence.

Longstrider is an option, not the best at first but the 10 feet of extra movement is useful on a hit and runner. Especially rogues since they can't use cunning action to dash often at all and almost always have to use disengage with it.

Find familiar is really good for getting your familiar to use the help action offering more advantage opportunities to you.

Hold person for the fact that you get free advantage for sneak attack and since a crit doubles damage dice you're rolling 16d6s of sneak attack, a lot of creature might make the save but if you know the creature you're up against has a low wis save this is a killer.

Counterspell is just something universally good since while it uses your reaction so no uncanny dodge having the chance to stop a huge spell can be very useful, even if it's a 3rd level spell something like 3rd level hold person or an enemy casting enemies abound on the barbarian to turn them against the party could be devastating if used correctly. I will say though this is less of a universal spell and more of something to use in bad situations, still very useful in those situations though.

Haste is useful for extra attacks for more chances to sneak attack (good combo with the blade cantrips)

Blink is extra useful since rogues are squishy and having a chance to basically avoid all damage is very useful.

col_impact
2020-03-16, 01:53 AM
Arcane trickster is a trap. Its better to go 3 rogue thief/ 17 wizard.

Bannan_mantis
2020-03-16, 03:45 AM
Arcane trickster is a trap. Its better to go 3 rogue thief/ 17 wizard.

I mean, at that point why even play a rogue and just go full wizard bladesinger? You're kinda forgetting that arcane trickster gives high level rogue traits and gives spellcasting, a combo for great levels of utility which even a ritual caster struggles to reach from the use of spells with expertise skills

carrdrivesyou
2020-03-16, 08:26 AM
Hear me out....HEX.

Not only does it give disadvantage on a specific save as a BONUS ACTION, it also plays well into stacking those d6s on your single attack. Plus, its a great setup for a lot of your spells.

PhantomSoul
2020-03-16, 08:30 AM
Hear me out....HEX.

Not only does it give disadvantage on a specific save as a BONUS ACTION, it also plays well into stacking those d6s on your single attack. Plus, its a great setup for a lot of your spells.

Hex isn't on the Wizard Spell List (so would cost a feat or a multiclass), and it affects Ability Checks, not Saving Throws...

col_impact
2020-03-16, 10:15 AM
I mean, at that point why even play a rogue and just go full wizard bladesinger? You're kinda forgetting that arcane trickster gives high level rogue traits and gives spellcasting, a combo for great levels of utility which even a ritual caster struggles to reach from the use of spells with expertise skills

17 levels in wizard is the cutting off point for wizard. So you have 3 levels for multi-classing. Rogue 2/Druid 1/Wizard 17 beats any pure bladesinger build.

Nagog
2020-03-16, 10:37 AM
It's already been said, but Find Familiar is always great, there's the obv. choices of Fireball and Lightening Bolt, I'd also look into some utility spells though. Leomunds Tiny Hut has some great utility if you've got a moment to cast it, particularly with disarming difficult magical traps with your Mage Hand, the Hut will protect you completely.
I've never been a fan of the AT and EK's school restrictions myself (playing a Divination Knight is a dream of mine), but when it comes down to it, what area of play do you feel you need more support in?

Willie the Duck
2020-03-16, 10:49 AM
17 levels in wizard is the cutting off point for wizard. So you have 3 levels for multi-classing. Rogue 2/Druid 1/Wizard 17 beats any pure bladesinger build.

And is even less roguelike than your previous example.

Chugger
2020-03-16, 07:04 PM
AT is not a trap and is one of the strongest rogue types.

AT can self-cast haste and sneak attack twice per round - not turn - but round, yes. Once hasted, ready your normal action. Use your hasted action to sneak attack. Your readied action should be said to occur the moment your turn ends. Your turn ends. You can only sneak attack once on your turn, but there is no limit on a round - and you can also sneak attack on your reaction (which is what your readied attack is).

Now - provided you still have an ally close to target or somehow qualify for a sneak attack (there are several ways) - sneak attack again.

Always pick find familiar.

The other spells you pick depend on your intelligence. Sleep, charm, hold person, suggestion - all great spells. But if your int is low not so great. At lvl 9 or so if you hide then cast, you can impose a disadvantage on your target, which helps a lot - but if your ST number sucks, even that isn't great. If your int is at least 14 you can expect things to regularly fail a ST. If your Int is 10 or 8, not so much.

Headband of Intellect is an awesome item for an AT.

kiwi5ucker
2020-03-16, 07:11 PM
Don't Forget find familiar if you haven't taken it yet! its my absolute favorite spell for arcane tricksters and it makes great mechanical sense giving you free help actions, and a versatile scout, and then roleplay wise its a lovely addition to any character

Sorinth
2020-03-16, 07:20 PM
Arcane trickster is a trap. Its better to go 3 rogue thief/ 17 wizard.

Arcane Trickster is one of the only classes that can impose disadvantage on saving throws. And things like Hypnotic Pattern where everyone has disadvantage on that save is devastating, even a 1st level spell like Tasha's can turn a fight trivial, and for BBEG's one of the best way's of burning through Legendary Resistances aside from a Monk SS spam is the Arcane Trickster throwing out save or suck spells while imposing disadvantage on the save.

Sorinth
2020-03-16, 07:32 PM
Hypnotic Pattern, Hold Person and Tasha's Hideous Laughter should be your go to in combat spells. Imposing disadvantage on save or suck spells is very strong. And of course Booming Blade as your cantrip of choice.

Fog cloud is also pretty decent for the Arcane Trickster since they can easily move in and out of the cloud to attack and with high dex saves + Evasion they are protected fairly well by area of effect spells.

For out of combat utility pretty much any illusion spell is good, Invisibility, Disguise Self, Silent Image, Minor Illusion are always handy. And there's the always hilarious Reduce when you are a Halfling/Gnome so that Mage Hand can carry you.