(3.5) Best Feats for Unarmed Character

[booliusdoolius]

Hey all, I'm making an unarmed Barbarian, and I was wondering, what are the best feats for an unarmed run (other than Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike)?

[One Step Two]

One option to be unarmed is to make use of spiked gauntlets (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#gauntletSpiked), as it is more easily enchanted. However, Barefisted and use of the improved unarmed strike feats aren't too bad over-all, there is the Flying Kick feat which uses Power Attach and IUS to deal 1d12 bonus damage when you charge and end with an Unarmed strike, as well as Roundabout kick, when you confirm critical with an unarmed strike, you can attack immediately afterwards! Incidentally, using gauntlets to pummel people still count as Unarmed strikes with these feats as well!
Both Feats are found in Complete Warrior.

[OrbanSirgen]

One option to be unarmed is to make use of spiked gauntlets (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#gauntletSpiked), as it is more easily enchanted.

Spiked gauntlets are light simple weapons... Regular gauntlets are considered unarmed attacks...

[booliusdoolius]

One option to be unarmed is to make use of spiked gauntlets (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#gauntletSpiked), as it is more easily enchanted. However, Barefisted and use of the improved unarmed strike feats aren't too bad over-all, there is the Flying Kick feat which uses Power Attach and IUS to deal 1d12 bonus damage when you charge and end with an Unarmed strike, as well as Roundabout kick, when you confirm critical with an unarmed strike, you can attack immediately afterwards! Incidentally, using gauntlets to pummel people still count as Unarmed strikes with these feats as well!
Both Feats are found in Complete Warrior.

So my character is going to be a boxer, so I don't think that rounabout kick would fit.

[animewatcha]

There is Circle Kick from Sword and Fist. Situational in that in case you are in melee with more than one foe within reach. Make an unarmed attack against adjacent foe once per round. Think cleave, but without hte need to drop a foe. Could help proc other unarmed special effects.

-edit- Roundabout kick. The flavor says followup with a kick, but the text of the feat says unarmed strike. So can always reflavor it. Same with circle kick.

[Rebel7284]

You may want to check out The City Brawler alternative class feature from Dragon#349 pg92.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Combat Reflexes to get lots of AoOs, Double-Hit to make two attacks per AoO, Snap Kick (which, despite the name, can be done via punching) for an extra attack per action spent attacking (which includes standard action, full attack, and AoOs), and if you have both claw and slam attacks, Beast Strike, to add your claw damage and slam damage (not base damage; ALL damage) to your unarmed strikes.

A level of monk, the rest in a manifesting class (such as a soulbound psychic warrior (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a)) and Tashalatora to get some psionic powers and monkishness into the mix.

If you're of a race that doesn't get slam attacks, spend 1,000 gp for a second set of arms via the warforged mighty arms graft. Gives you slam attacks and allows you to use warforged components on your hand, arm, and ring slots. If you don't want a second set of arms, you can replace your current ones. Works best if you already have claw attacks (via soulmeld, psionic power, or racial attacks) and Beast Strike. Feel free to enhance them all via magic, as well, for lots of bonus damage.

[Gruftzwerg]

One option to be unarmed is to make use of spiked gauntlets (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#gauntletSpiked), as it is more easily enchanted. However, Barefisted and use of the improved unarmed strike feats aren't too bad over-all, there is the Flying Kick feat which uses Power Attach and IUS to deal 1d12 bonus damage when you charge and end with an Unarmed strike, as well as Roundabout kick, when you confirm critical with an unarmed strike, you can attack immediately afterwards! Incidentally, using gauntlets to pummel people still count as Unarmed strikes with these feats as well!
Both Feats are found in Complete Warrior.

gauntlets are bad for magical enhancements since they don't come as a pair and thus need to be enhanced separately.
Necklace of Natural Attacks is also for non-monks the best option to enchant unarmed strike if you don't intend to pay double the price for magical gauntlets. You can still use gauntlets for fashion or other reasons/cheese thou.

- Necklace of Natural Attacks for the regular enhancements (+5, sizing, valorous)
- 2x +1 Gauntlets with Throwing (another +1 for price)

Now you can throw your punches up to 50ft.^^
_________________

to topic:

a)
Get some claw dmg and use Beast Strike (feat) to add claw dmg to unarmed strike. Doubledip the sizing to colossal for claw and unarmed. edit: e.g. Claw Bracers for a mere 30g.

b)
- Ubercharger feat line: PA, Imp. Bullrush, Shock Trooper
- Dip a single lvl into monk (due to flurry requirement) and enter Drunken Master for 2 lvl. Use Wild Monk or other way to avoid the lawful alignment component. Drunken Master (2) will give you Stagger, which lets you freely change direction while charging. Now you can charge back and fort or make loopings if you have an option to fly.
- Further your want Drunken Master because it lets your "Drink like a Demon". Win every Drink contest!
- Get "Sandals of the Tiger Leap" for doubling charge dmg with unarmed strike.
- dipa martial adept class or use 2 feats for Martial Study and get Martial Stance: Leading the Charge to your +1dmg/Inititator level (thus 1/2 your character lvl if you don't have any)

c)If you have good ability scores, you could go for TWF feat line for extra attacks.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Feel free to crib off of this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial/page25&p=15474863#post15474863) for ideas on how to boost monks to crazy levels. Several builds can 1v1 Endbringers Elder Evils.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I can't remember what sourcebook it's from, but there are these gauntlet stub things that can add more enchantments to gauntlets for cheap IIRC. I want to say it was Heroes of Battle?


A lot of useful feats have already been mentioned up-thread; here's a few I didn't see:

Superior Unarmed Strike -- bizarrely, only works well on a build with no monk (where it gives you the unarmed strike progression of a small monk, basically) or a lot of monk (where it boosts your effective monk level by 4). On a build with 1 or 2 effective monk levels, the +4 effective levels actually leaves you behind where you'd be with no monk levels.

Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) -- the larger your damage dice already are, the better this feat is. 2d6 to 3d6 is a lot better than 1d10 to 1d12.

Stonewalker Fist -- not the most optimized feat out there, but it's hard to beat for sheer cool factor. Lets you punch straight through armor and shields (negates up to +4 armor bonus, up to +8 if you take the feat again; doesn't damage the armor or shield).

Snap Kick -- this one did get mentioned up-thread, but is great enough to be worth repeating. An extra attack that can be added to full attacks, standard action attacks, Tome of Battle Maneuvers, and even opportunity attacks.

[Gruftzwerg]

Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) -- the larger your damage dice already are, the better this feat is. 2d6 to 3d6 is a lot better than 1d10 to 1d12.

Is not worth the feat, if you take Sizing (+1 cost). You can size up to colossal, so don't waste a feat on it.

[OrbanSirgen]

Now you can throw your punches up to 50ft.^^

Reminds me of the old joke of the kensai who made his fists Throwing weapons but not Returning...

[Gruftzwerg]

Reminds me of the old joke of the kensai who made his fists Throwing weapons but not Returning...

oh yeah thx for the reminder.

Bloostorm Blade would be the other solution. And with 4 lvls in it, you can full attack with the gauntlets and don't need to enchant them. Necklace for buffing unarmed would be enough.

[liquidformat]

There are also Ward Cestus from Arms and equipment Guide but I think for some stupid reason they are exotic weapons even though their soul purpose is to let you get enhancement bonuses on unarmed strikes...

[Troacctid]

Lion Tribe Warrior gives you the pounce ability for light weapons only. Unarmed strikes are light weapons.

[liquidformat]

Lion Tribe Warrior gives you the pounce ability for light weapons only. Unarmed strikes are light weapons.

Not quite, it lets you make a full attack with a single light weapon or a single attack with each weapon if you have two light weapons. Snow Tiger Berserker is better since it specifically lets you make a full attack with two light weapons.

[Troacctid]

Not quite, it lets you make a full attack with a single light weapon or a single attack with each weapon if you have two light weapons. Snow Tiger Berserker is better since it specifically lets you make a full attack with two light weapons.
It's a relevant distinction if you're mixing unarmed strikes with other weapons, but if you're only using unarmed strikes, there is no meaningful difference between the two other than their prerequisites.

[The Viscount]

I mean, if you're building a barbarian you could just take Lion Spirit Totem and save yourself the feat to get pounce.

The Hammer Fist feat from Dragon Compendium lets you use two hands to gain 1.5xStr on damage. Whether you consider hitting your enemies with the old James T. Kirk to be an upside or a downside is player-dependent.

Scorpion's Grasp from Sandstorm basically gives you improved grab with unarmed strikes.

[Gruftzwerg]

The Hammer Fist feat from Dragon Compendium lets you use two hands to gain 1.5xStr on damage.

the single attack per turn limitation makes it bad imho. Sure you could try to build around with cleave & greater cleave, but still crippling unless you 1shot with each hit.

[farothel]

gauntlets are bad for magical enhancements since they don't come as a pair and thus need to be enhanced separately.
Necklace of Natural Attacks is also for non-monks the best option to enchant unarmed strike if you don't intend to pay double the price for magical gauntlets. You can still use gauntlets for fashion or other reasons/cheese thou.

- Necklace of Natural Attacks for the regular enhancements (+5, sizing, valorous)
- 2x +1 Gauntlets with Throwing (another +1 for price)


I've seen that Necklace of Natural Attacks pop up in discussions before, but I can't seem to find it in a D&D 3.5 source book. Can anybody tell me which book it comes from?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Savage Species has rules for making and using multi-handed weapons. Basically, any masterwork weapon can be crafted for use with multiple hands, with each additional hand added granting (I believe) +50% Str bonus to damage.

My namesake character mainly uses unarmed strikes for physical attacks and has prehensile tails and feet, and he uses 2-handed foot-gauntlets (basically gauntlets but 2-handed that he wears in place of boots) to stomp his enemies, similar to some of Bayonetta's air-kick combos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9ebzDdYd5g). I really like the images it puts into my head.

[liquidformat]

I've seen that Necklace of Natural Attacks pop up in discussions before, but I can't seem to find it in a D&D 3.5 source book. Can anybody tell me which book it comes from?

I am pretty sure it is just people miss naming Amulet of Mighty Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists), unless there are two magic items with the exact same functionality...


It's a relevant distinction if you're mixing unarmed strikes with other weapons, but if you're only using unarmed strikes, there is no meaningful difference between the two other than their prerequisites.

From my understanding it is a relevant distinction even if you are only using unarmed strikes since you can use two-weapon fighting to have multiple unarmed strikes...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I am pretty sure it is just people miss naming Amulet of Mighty Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists), unless there are two magic items with the exact same functionality..The Necklace of natural weapons (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?99215-Necklace-of-Natural-Weapons-(D-amp-D-3-5)) is in Savage Species.

[Wildstag]

I'm a fan of using Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHB2) when I'm also using a non-monk with the feat Superior Unarmed Strike (which is listed above), since it allows you to stick exclusively to unarmed strikes for weapons instead of having to get a dagger or a spear and sword for the other kinds of weapons. And then you'd need those enchanted to bypass dr/magic... far easier to enchant one amulet and use a swift action to change the damage type for the occasion.

[Thurbane]

If you are good aligned and happy to walk the Exalted line, Touch of Golden Ice (BoED) add a rider effect on all of your unarmed attacks against evil creatures.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you are good aligned and happy to walk the Exalted line, Touch of Golden Ice (BoED) add a rider effect on all of your unarmed attacks against evil creatures.Good luck figuring out what the save DC is supposed to be.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Good luck figuring out what the save DC is supposed to be.

From experience I can tell you no matter what you pick, you're wrong. Going with the option that makes the feat with a pile of downsides good was the path of least evil (pun not intended).

[Thurbane]

Good luck figuring out what the save DC is supposed to be.

From experience I can tell you no matter what you pick, you're wrong. Going with the option that makes the feat with a pile of downsides good was the path of least evil (pun not intended).

According to Table 3-2, DC 14?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

According to Table 3-2, DC 14?That's for a dose of poison ravage. The feat is a Su ability. Do you use that one, or since the feat is Supernatural, do you use the scaling DC for Su abilities, which is 10+1/2 HD+Cha or Con? That one actually keeps the feat from being useless more than 1/19 of the time later on (since a number of strikes won't hit to begin with, and saves get high enough to overwhelm piddly static DCs).

[animewatcha]

Yep. As written Save DC of 14. Initial 1d6 dex damage. Secondary 2d6 dex damage. Feat operates on 'if you touch with bare...'. So it should be reasonable that unarmed strike that don't hit the normal AC, but beat the touch AC should still take effect.

[ZamielVanWeber]

As written the ravage is DC 14, but the feat gives it as a supernatural ability, which means 14 or either of the two listed by Maxi are all viable options under the rules. Discuss with DM which DC your game is using.

[Troacctid]

Specific beats general. The default rule for (Su) abilities doesn't apply in this case because golden ice specifies its own fixed save DC of 14.

Enemies are bound to roll nat 1s eventually, especially if you're making lots of attacks.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Specific beats general. The default rule for (Su) abilities doesn't apply in this case because golden ice specifies its own fixed save DC of 14.

Enemies are bound to roll nat 1s eventually, especially if you're making lots of attacks.You want nobody to ever take that feat? That's how you get nobody to ever take that feat. -- Malory Archer. Kinda.

[Thurbane]

Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest or cause a derail, sorry...

[animewatcha]

That is a sign of a normal thread, actually. Especially with WOTC's attitude toward 3.5 archives.

[Gruftzwerg]

Yep. As written Save DC of 14. Initial 1d6 dex damage. Secondary 2d6 dex damage. Feat operates on 'if you touch with bare...'. So it should be reasonable that unarmed strike that don't hit the normal AC, but beat the touch AC should still take effect.

you have to target either one. You can't make a touch attack and a normal attack at the same time. It's the same when you have touch spells delivered via unarmed strike. You attack doesn't fall back to touch attack because you missed the normal AC. That doesn't work. You either go for a touch attack or a regular attack. Fleshraker poison ability works the same and would otherwise turn the already strong encounter into an almost impossible one for that lvl.

It's already punishing enough that you can't attack someone with Golden Ice with natural or unarmed attacks without the save roll.



You want nobody to ever take that feat? That's how you get nobody to ever take that feat. -- Malory Archer. Kinda.

Imho it's not OP but still decent for certain niche builds. Even if the enemy can only fail on a rolled 1, it's still 5% per attack. If you optimize for Greater Flurry + TWF featline and +16(or more) BAB you get up to 9 attacks pre epic and when epic you get 12 attacks. 9 or 12 x 5% chance per turn without activation/action costs at-will. And last, add other extra attacks from possible feats like (greater) Cleave, Combat Reflexes + Karmic Strike/Robilar's Gambit to cheese it even more out.

If you are in a "kill dragons" campaign or face a certain enemy type with low DEX, it could shine or even become OP imho.

[Vaern]

I'd honestly go fighter instead of barbarian. If you're not a monk then the damage and efficiency of your unarmed attacks is going to be very feat dependent, and fighters can get a large number of unarmed combat feats while also keeping up with the two-weapon fighting chain.
Gauntlets are considered an unarmed attack and can therefore be made masterwork or magical while maintaining unarmed bonuses. Even at low levels when proper enhancements are too expensive you can reasonably get a pair of masterwork gauntlets and pop some least augment crystals into them. See if you can get them glamered to look like boxing gloves, since they're also technically considered part of a suit of armor.

[Rebel7284]

I'd honestly go fighter instead of barbarian. If you're not a monk then the damage and efficiency of your unarmed attacks is going to be very feat dependent, and fighters can get a large number of unarmed combat feats while also keeping up with the two-weapon fighting chain.
Gauntlets are considered an unarmed attack and can therefore be made masterwork or magical while maintaining unarmed bonuses. Even at low levels when proper enhancements are too expensive you can reasonably get a pair of masterwork gauntlets and pop some least augment crystals into them. See if you can get them glamered to look like boxing gloves, since they're also technically considered part of a suit of armor.

There is an argument that staying in Barbarian has diminishing returns, but some levels of barbarian are very useful for an unarmed strike build.

With a one level dip into a Lion Totem City Brawler Barbarian you get:
- Improved Unarmed Strike
- Two Weapon Fighting
- Pounce
- Rage 1/day

Two feats and two useful abilities on a slightly better chassis.

If you happen to go Goliath (LA buyoff available?) then mountain rage is particularly good too.

[Vaern]

If you use the lycanthrope template to create a werebadger then you can retain the badger rage ability in humanoid form. Rage automatically when you take damage until either you or the source of the damage drops. No duration limit, no limit to uses per day, no fatigue afterward. Since bonuses from various rages tend to be untyped you could possibly stack it with barbarian rage. I think there's a size restriction on lycanthropes that would limit werebadgers to small creatures, though, so you wouldn't be able to also get that goliath rage and badger rage on the same character.

[The Viscount]

the single attack per turn limitation makes it bad imho. Sure you could try to build around with cleave & greater cleave, but still crippling unless you 1shot with each hit.

I had presumed since they didn't say "once per round" that the phrase "single attack" was just to set up that you can't use it in a flurry of blows. The wording doesn't match normal wording for stuff like this. There's a feat with the same name in Races of Faerun that doesn't include that phrase but does require you to be a dwarf, so I had assumed it to be an updated version of sorts with easier access. If your table plays it as single attack per turn, then I agree it's not worth it.

[Esprit15]

If you're okay with some evil, Willing Deformity + Tall grants you longer reach, which if you're trying to make use of AOO's (as some suggested), is very helpful if you're not naturally large.

[Gruftzwerg]

I had presumed since they didn't say "once per round" that the phrase "single attack" was just to set up that you can't use it in a flurry of blows. The wording doesn't match normal wording for stuff like this. There's a feat with the same name in Races of Faerun that doesn't include that phrase but does require you to be a dwarf, so I had assumed it to be an updated version of sorts with easier access. If your table plays it as single attack per turn, then I agree it's not worth it.

the feat got nerfed from the 3.0 to 3.5 transition. RoF (requires Dwarf) is 3.0 and the updated version (Dragon Compendium 3.5) only allows for a single attack. It's sad, I want Kirk's double fist attack as full-attack too..^^

[One Step Two]

So, other than my admittedly erroneous claim about the gauntlets, I had a thought occur to me about a potential build, and I wanted to put it out there for the forum to look over.

I tentatively name this build Iron Fist of the Devil King

A Warforged City Dweller Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Dungeoncrasher Warforged Fighter 6/Disciple of Dispater 8/Warforged Juggernaught 5

2 Flaws are needed to help cover the necessary feats (I recommend Shaky and Meager Fortitude).
The Feats needed for entry requirements are: Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Disciple of Darkness, and Improved Bullrush
The fighter bonus feats are all lost due to losing 1st for battle hardened, 4th for Body as a Weapon, as well 2nd and 6th for Dungeoncrasher. The bonus Warforged Feat is being traded for Dungeoncrasher.
Other feats that are important are Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike), and Roundabout Kick.

With Disciple of Dispater's Iron Power ability trumping the general rules for stacking Keen, and Imp Critical (yes, I know 3.0 and the like), it gives a Warforged Using his body as a weapon a threat range of 17-20, not super powerful, but with the ability to full attack on the charge, if he confirms a critical strike, Roundabout kick lets him attack again, without a cap.

Additional feats that might be good to add are Beast Strike, and Superior Unarmed Strike

This is not an over-tuned build as it relies on serious dice luck, I think there's some potential to push it further, but I just wanted to toss it out there to see what people think.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

With Disciple of Dispater's Iron Power ability trumping the general rules for stacking Keen, and Imp Critical (yes, I know 3.0 and the like), it gives a Warforged Using his body as a weapon a threat range of 17-20, not super powerful, but with the ability to full attack on the charge, if he confirms a critical strike, Roundabout kick lets him attack again, without a cap.

Additional feats that might be good to add are Beast Strike, and Superior Unarmed Strike

This is not an over-tuned build as it relies on serious dice luck, I think there's some potential to push it further, but I just wanted to toss it out there to see what people think.

Yeah, I've been toying with that idea myself. I was looking at Battle Dancer for Pounce, flight, and automatically confirming crits once you make it to 20th level (plus Battle Dancers can explicitly use TWF with unarmed strikes as both main hand and off-hand), but that doesn't leave you with enough space to do... well, anything else. Not enough feats or class features to get crits often enough or spam enough attacks. Could work well in gestalt, though. Maybe go Monk or Monk/Fighter on the other side to load up on Stunning Fist uses and related feats.

[Gruftzwerg]

A Warforged City Dweller Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Dungeoncrasher Warforged Fighter 6/Disciple of Dispater 8/Warforged Juggernaught 5


I would drop dungeoncrasher. Imho it's weak. You can't apply Power Attack to it due to not having an attack roll in the first place. And the limitation to have some object/wall with an enemy in front is really annoying and unreliable. There are really better option available for ubercharger.

Maybe dip into Crusader or Warblade. There are 2 early stances that might be interesting for this build.

Leading the Charge:
+1 dmg/"Initiator lvl" for all allies (incl. you) on charge.

or (my personal favorite^^)

Blood in the Water:
+1 hit / +1 dmg untyped bonus per crit, stacking infinity as long as you have scored a crit in the last 1min. = 10 rounds. Maybe squeeze in a lvl of Commoner for Chicken Infested to always add stacks and refresh the duration. Since warforged do not sleep, you can stack it into infinity. Annoy your group with attack rolls for each 6 seconds that pass in-game^^. I am thinking about tailoring a build around this combo for a longer time.. the question is, which DM (or contest jury) would approve a warforged commoner-1 build as player build^^ (Are there any other options to have constantly targets to attack that I might be missing?). Imagine to roleplay a character that sacrifices chickens all day & night to optain infinite combat strength and leaves a trail of blood and sacrificed chicken behind him :smallbiggrin:

[ciopo]

Is not worth the feat, if you take Sizing (+1 cost). You can size up to colossal, so don't waste a feat on it.

do I understand correctly that that would be a -8 to hit penalty for inappropriately sized weapons?

[Gruftzwerg]

do I understand correctly that that would be a -8 to hit penalty for inappropriately sized weapons?

yeah, that's correct.
And with unarmed dmg as monk 20 you can get better -hit +dmg ratios as with power attack (2h + feats) without any feats needed. Haven't calculated it for superior unarmed strike thou. SUS 16+ at colossal size would be 8d6, not as profitable. An increase of +6d6 for -8 to hit. 6x 3.5= ~21 dmg on avarage for -8 to hit is more than 1:2 ratio. Still a bit better option than PA with light unarmed strike for 1:1 ratio.

edit: corrected values.. sry, was sleeping^^

[noce]

Lion Tribe Warrior from Shining South.
It is setting specific and race specific, and basically means you can pounce with your unarmed strike.

EDIT: nevermind, it came out on 1st page.

[Efrate]

Could Kirk punch and decisive strike stack for damage increases getting you closer to one punch man? Likely with beast strike a slam attack and claws from a soulmeld.

[Rebel7284]

I have always been confused by the whole sizing thing on unarmed strike. First of all, even if the DM allows it (it is about as silly as throwing/returning), there is also this rule:


The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than a light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.

So since the unarmed strike is a light weapon to start, even if the DM allows you to use a sizing unarmed strike, you would only be able to increase it by two size categories. light-> one handed -> two handed. Making it two handed is nice for power attack, although you are already taking some heavy penalties to hit by that point.

Am I missing anything?

[Gruftzwerg]

Could Kirk punch and decisive strike stack for damage increases getting you closer to one punch man? Likely with beast strike a slam attack and claws from a soulmeld.

1. One Punch Man normally uses a single fist to strike IIRC

2. If you want a One Punch Man build, there is already one (good and several others). Just use a small size "D2 Crusader"-build for unarmed d2 dmg rolls and you are done. A single one handed punch with infinite dmg - mission accomplished.

[Gruftzwerg]

I have always been confused by the whole sizing thing on unarmed strike. First of all, even if the DM allows it (it is about as silly as throwing/returning), there is also this rule:



So since the unarmed strike is a light weapon to start, even if the DM allows you to use a sizing unarmed strike, you would only be able to increase it by two size categories. light-> one handed -> two handed. Making it two handed is nice for power attack, although you are already taking some heavy penalties to hit by that point.

Am I missing anything?

unarmed strike always count as light weapon. dunno where it exactly states right off the bat, but the rule is there.

edit: here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#unarmedStrike)

A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at her option. The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike.

[Troacctid]

I have always been confused by the whole sizing thing on unarmed strike. First of all, even if the DM allows it (it is about as silly as throwing/returning), there is also this rule:



So since the unarmed strike is a light weapon to start, even if the DM allows you to use a sizing unarmed strike, you would only be able to increase it by two size categories. light-> one handed -> two handed. Making it two handed is nice for power attack, although you are already taking some heavy penalties to hit by that point.

Am I missing anything?
IIRC, effects like this don't actually physically embiggen your fists, they just make them deal damage as if they were larger while their actual size for all other purposes remains the same. Mighty wallop even specifically mentions this.

[Gruftzwerg]

IIRC, effects like this don't actually physically embiggen your fists, they just make them deal damage as if they were larger while their actual size for all other purposes remains the same. Mighty wallop even specifically mentions this.

This scene from Kung Fu Hustle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Etw_BwRoY) helps with the visualization:
The character obviously has seems to be an ubercharger with leap attack who is specialized in unarmed strikes and makes use of the sizing & throwing/returning enhancements. (swordsage with kensai and or bloodstormblade?^^)

[Rebel7284]

IIRC, effects like this don't actually physically embiggen your fists, they just make them deal damage as if they were larger while their actual size for all other purposes remains the same. Mighty wallop even specifically mentions this.

I am not sure if that interpretation is supported by the rules. From MIC

Activating a sizing weapon changes its size
category to any other that you desire.

That's it.

While Mighty Wallop instead increases the damage of a bludgeoning melee weapon and then references a chart on how to do it.

So very different rules.

Regardless of if you rule that applying sizing does or doesn't physically change any striking surfaces of your body, I see no reason why the other rules of inappropriately sized weapons would stop applying.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'd rather sizing increase my size, take a level in monk, consider my entire body an unarmed strike (since you can UAS with pretty much anything, if you know how (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?576324-3-P-Tanuki-Marital-Arts-Style)), then apply sizing to my entire body. (And metalline, and morphing, and ghost touch, and...)

[Gruftzwerg]

Regardless of if you rule that applying sizing does or doesn't physically change any striking surfaces of your body, I see no reason why the other rules of inappropriately sized weapons would stop applying.

You still take the penalties for inappropriately sized weapon (-2 for each size category difference. -8 for a medium sized creature with colossal unarmed strike). It's just that the hard rule on unarmed strikes being always a light weapon that allows one to wild em (colossal sized) compared to other weapons where you are limited to being able to wild the weapon at least as a 2h weapon. Compare it with regular weapons: a medium sized creature can't wield a colossal sized Greatsword. No matter how high his Strength score is. He can maybe lift it and throw it like a rock, but not "wield" it as a normal weapon in its intended design. This isn't true for unarmed strikes which are always "light weapons" despite their size.

and as said, the -"to Hit" +"dmg" ratio as character with unarmed dmg as monk20 is better than Power Attack.

unarmed dmg as monk 20:
- medium sized: 2d10 // 2x ~5.5 = ~11 dmg
- colossal sized: 12d8 // 12x ~4.5 = ~49 dmg

an average dmg increase of 38 for a -8 penalty: ~38dmg/8= ~5.75dmg gain per -1 to hit invested. And that is not counting in the beast strike option that adds your colossal sized claw dmg on top of it. You need a bunch of Power Attack feats and prc abilities to come even close to such trade-off values.