Tempest Cleric Questions and Assistance

[Quiomas]

Hello, so for a new campaign I'm looking to make a Tempest Cleric considering our group of six or seven is a lacking a tanking character. Some characters we have is monk, wizard, sorcerer, etc. I haven't played a Tempest Cleric before so I'm looking for any advice or tips to playing this character.

I'm not entirely sure on what race I want to be either. I've been googling and searching around two main recommendations were VH or Hill Dwarf (I'm not to keen on playing Dwarf, Halflings or small humans besides goblin tbh, so this is a pass for me). The main reasons for VH were the Booming Blade that you can get from Magic Initiate Feat. I've heard that this is great, because you can also access a couple other spells, but I am not entirely sure if this is worth it. We have a large party so I think that enemies may be dead before they can flee to get the damage, or if maybe instead of going VH I could go half-elf high elf variant for other perks, or maybe half-orc as they have bonus constitution and strength and the savage attack ability? I'm just not entirely if this is worth it.

I'm also looking to become more of a solid caster rather than using weapons as I've heard that in the later levels the attacking abilities of Tempest Cleric become a bit...average to say the least and get outclassed by monk or fighter. We have a mostly spell casting party but I'm unsure. I forgot to mention this earlier but another reason I'm not keen on playing VH is because 3/6 or 7 of the party members are a Variant Human and I am striving to have some sort of diversity in the party.

I'm just looking for general tips and advice on how to play this character as I really don't want to be useless to my party. I'm not looking for perfect optimisation or anything, just to be decent at the very least. I'm going to sleep now so I'll read replies in the morning, thank you for your help and I'm sorry this was so long.

[LudicSavant]

H
I'm not entirely sure on what race I want to be either. I've been googling and searching around two main recommendations were VH or Hill Dwarf (I'm not to keen on playing Dwarf, Halflings or small humans besides goblin tbh, so this is a pass for me).

Other examples of good Tempest Cleric races (that aren't Dwarf, Halflings, or small humans):

Half-Elf (with the High Elf Variant from SCAG, you can get Booming Blade or the like)
Mark of Sentinel human
Warforged
Wildhunt Shifter
Loxodon
Simic Hybrid
Protector Aasimar

[Cheesegear]

Hello, so for a new campaign I'm looking to make a Tempest Cleric considering our group of six or seven is a lacking a tanking character. Some characters we have is monk, wizard, sorcerer, etc. I haven't played a Tempest Cleric before so I'm looking for any advice or tips to playing this character.

My Dragonborn Tempest Cleric remains to this day, my favourite character.

My biggest problem with Booming Blade, is that it's made using a weapon attack, not a Spell Attack. So already it kinda sucks if you want to be a caster, since it's not based off your casting stat.

But yeah. Tempest is a problem, because there aren't that many Thunder/Lightning spells on the Cleric's Spell List, and the ones that are, are your Domain spells. So that's what you're casting.

I liked Dragonborn, because a Blue or Bronze will give you a Lightning Breath attack, which is, of course, Lightning damage.
The bonus STR means you can start with a 14 or 15 in both an Attack stat, and your casting stat. So if you have to tank, that's where it's at.
...And that's what I did, and why I picked Dragonborn. Extra Lightning damage, extra STR. Extra CON might've better. But Hell, I just healed myself when I had to, right?

I found War Caster to be the most important Feat. Since it lets you carry a Shield (you holy symbol) and Weapon, and still cast VS spells. If you were playing Variant Human, that's what you'd take, first. Not Magic Initiate.

Spiritual Weapon is your 'Extra Attack'. It costs you a spell slot. But...That's what it does. Once you get Spiritual Weapon, you're going to cast it in every major fight.

Other than that, having gone from Level 1 to 15, I never really found myself casting spells that often. The vast majority of the time, I was...Well...Tanking. The only time I ever cast spells was either
a) To heal, or
b) When **** hits the fan, I automatically roll max damage on some very strong AoE spells.


I'm not entirely sure on what race I want to be either.

Depends how high a level you go. If you're not going to go higher than ~10, Variant Human is the strongest race. Choose War Caster, and go to town.


I'm also looking to become more of a solid caster rather than using weapons...

Then WTF are you talking about Booming Blade for?


the attacking abilities of Tempest Cleric become a bit...average to say the least and get outclassed by monk or fighter.

A Cleric is a full caster. So, despite having Heavy Armour and Martial Weapons, you don't get Extra/Multi attack. Instead, you get +d8 thunder damage at Level 8. 2d8 damage, Hell yeah. That's better than a Greatsword! Except if you miss, you deal 0 damage (again, Booming Blade, why?). Meanwhile the Fighter with a Greatsword - at Level 8 - has several more attacks to go.


I'm just looking for general tips and advice on how to play this character as I really don't want to be useless to my party.

I played a Tempest Cleric to Level 15, in a 4-person party, where I was the main healer. For the early levels, that's what I was. I stopped healing at Level 7, when Clerics get Death Ward, then, really, I only ever healed myself all the way to Level 15. :smallamused:

At level 8, with a Martial weapon;
Action; d8 damage + d8 Thunder damage.
Bonus Action; Spiritual weapon d8 Force damage.

3d8 damage +STR, +WIS, isn't bad. But you're definitely not a Fighter.

It's not so much that you're a tank, and you can walk into fights and do a ****-ton of damage (except when you cast Destructive Wave for max damage). It's that you're a Full Caster that wears Full Plate and a Shield. Depending on your playstyle - or what you want - you may be way better served with a Paladin, or playing a War Cleric, instead.

[Neoh]

You could go with Firbolg for the race, they get +2 Wisdom and +1 Strength, along with some nice goodies:
Detect Magic and Disguise Self once/short rest.
Hidden Step is a bonus Action invisibility for a turn.
Powerful Build to allow you to lift/push/drag very heavy things (doesn't work on grappling).
You can speak to animals and plants but not understand them in return, which can make for some nice roleplay with your DM.
You speak 3 languages (Common, Elvish, Giant) from the start, which is cool.

As for the build, if you don't plan to invest in strength, Booming Blade isn't that great since you will be more likely to miss your attack. Unless you try to grab the Shillelagh cantrip somehow, but you said you prefer casting spells rather than using the attack action.

Instead you could take the Resilient (Constitution +1) Feat to get the save proficiency and use the Spirit Guardians spell, which is really good for a tank to have.
You can also take the War Caster Feat, gives you advantage on concentration checks, super good with Spirit Guardians again. Also allows you to cast a spell as a reaction instead of making a weapon attack when an enemy's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, really good for a tank.

I would go something like this :

Race : Firbolg.

Stats (Point Buy) :

Str : 15 (+1)
Dex : /
Con : 15
Int : /
Wis : 16 (+2)
Cha : /

You have 4 points left to choose for Dex, Int and Cha, I leave it up to you to complete accordingly to your vision of the character. You could make you Constitution a 14 instead if you don't plan on taking the Resilient Feat.

As for level progression:
- at 4 you should take +2 in Wisdom, making it 18.
- at 8 you could either take a +2 again or a Feat, either War Caster or Resilient(Con).
- at 12 same choices as before.
- at 16 same choices as before, by then your progression is over

Do note that level 16 is quite late to end a build, you might not reach it so choose wisely.
If you have to choose between the Resilient Feat or War Caster, I would personally go for War Caster, gives you some goodies to play with. Resilient is good though, bumps your health higher and gives you better saves, which is nice for a frontline.

If you want to ignore those Feats, you could always go for the Lucky Feat, always great on any build.

[Eldariel]

V. Human is really good in that Booming Blade gives you a very solid aggro mechanic; your AoO deals damage and enemy takes further damage if they move away from you (you'll want War Caster anyways to maintain Concentration and this combines perfectly with that). Combine this with Spirit Guardians and they're highly incentivized to attack you instead of going for the squishies (all according to plan). You don't ever have to take an active attack action but passively this allows you to control a large area of space pretty effortlessly while casting spells. Sentinel is another feat that plays into this (though ironically it prevents them from triggering the second half of BB - but that's okay, if they can't reach your squishies but would want to, it's better that way).

That said, yeah, other races are fine too. It just takes a bit longer to get all your feats. Ludic has a fine list. There's plenty of good ones and some even get the Wizard cantrip (though of course, Magic Initiate is really nice as it also gets you Find Familiar [or Shield if you want a 1/day super-AC] and Minor Illusion, both of which are positively absurd spells even with your save DC in the case of Minor Illusion).

[Sorinth]

Blue/Brass Dragonborn can be fun/thematic especially if worshiping a non-traditional God of thunder/lightning. Thunderous Strike helps keep the dragon breath somewhat relevant.

The main benefit of something like Booming Blade is that after level 5 the damage on the initial hit also increases irrelevant to whether the rider damage also goes off. This is important because it actually does allow a Cleric's melee damage to stay relevant at higher levels since it also stacks with Divine Strike, so assuming a one handed d8 weapon, at level 5 you deal 2d8+mod, and every 3 levels you gain an additional d8 until level 17 where your attack deals 6d8+mod. Add in things like Spirit Guardians or Spiritual Weapon and you can be a solid melee damage dealer even at higher levels of play. Booming Blade is really the key to avoid that higher level dropoff.

[CTurbo]

Tempest Cleric is probably my favorite subclass in 5e, and I've played 4 completely different versions so far. Tempests are extremely versatile and a whole lot of fun.

I have made and played a Str focused melee first Tempest before and it was a lot of fun, but is mostly a trap and NOT very optimized. After level 5 or so attacking with your weapon is rarely going to be the best idea.

The most optimized Tempest is going to have 20 Wis, have highest AC possible, and have both Warcaster and Res(Con). You could get by with Warcaster OR Res(Con) though, but take one by level 8 for sure.

Tempests get Heavy Armor, but you can still go Dex based and use medium or light armor.

Vhuman is best because you can start out with Res(Con) or Warcaster. Heavy Armor Mastery is a great starting feat too, but I don't think I would consider Magic Initiate to start. Booming Blade doesn't even get good until level 5 anyway. Res(Con) is probably the best level 1 feat since it comes with a stat boost. You could start with 16 Str/Dex, 16 Con, and 16 Wis. You can dump Int and Cha all day long. The best part about Dex builds is you can dump Str too. For a Str build I don't like dumping Dex. I don't even like to dump Dex because Initiative is too important. (don't HAVE to go first, but hate always going last)

Hill Dwarf is the other best race. Perfect stat bonuses, +1 hp per level, can dump Str and still wear heavy armor, and all other Dwarf goodies. I understand that you don't want to play a Dwarf and that's fine. The Racial feat Dwarven Fortitude is GREAT too. Let's look at other options.

Aarakocra +2 Dex, +1 Wis. Perfect stats for a Dex build. FLIGHT! Can still use a shield. I like it. Great choice.
Aasimar(Protector), +2 Cha, +1 Wis. Well the Cha is wasted, but you get the Wis. You'd want to be Dex based and wear Medium Armor. Aasimar have GREAT racial bonuses though. I have done this one and it was fun!
Wood Elf +2 Dex, +1 Wis. Perfect stats + Elf goodies make this a great choice. The Wood Elf Magic racial feat is pretty good too.
Water Genasi +2 Con, +1 Wis. Perfect stats. Very thematic! Swim speed, breath underwater, free cantrip and 2nd level spell. Good choice.
Kenku +2 Dex, +1 Wis. Other than perfect stat bonuses, I really don't see anything here for a Tempest.
Lizardfolk +2 Con, +1 Wis. Perfect stat bonus and some pretty fun racial features. Not a bad pick.
Warforged Envoy, +1 Con, +1 Wis, and +1 to Str or Dex. That's perfect. Choose a tool and it becomes a part of you. (better for Forge Clerics but still). Warforged have a lot of goodies, but the best thing is you can get really high ACs.

[djreynolds]

All clerics are essential MAD. You're going to need an attack stat and wisdom

A cleric can go with a 14 dex and scale mail... its as good as chainmail.

But then they have to get a hold of shillelagh, a dip or MI.

If you are using BB or GFB, you will need strength or dex. If you are wearing heavy armor, you will need at least a 13 in strength.

The great thing about tempest is access to martial weapons, which does make finesse martial weapons available.

IMO, you can leave your attack stat or wisdom a respectable 16.

With tempest and point buy and heavy armor, a 16 in strength and wisdom and 14 con is good. Now you can grab MI for BB/GFB

IMO a 16 attack stat is just fine, and wisdom can stay 16 til 12th, as mentioned resilient con and war caster or both are really essential.

4th level MI for BB
8th level war caster is nice if you are in melee
12th resilient con, coupled with war caster means you shouldn't fail too many concentration checks
16th wisdom 18

[LudicSavant]

In order for a melee attack to really shine you need Booming Blade or magic weapons or the like. Otherwise, Toll the Dead will be just as good or better in many situations (even with Divine Strike).

[Cheesegear]

The main benefit of something like Booming Blade is that after level 5...

My issue with Booming Blade is that it costs Magic Initiate to get, that is, a Feat.

If you're playing a caster-Cleric, and you've got a free Feat, you should be picking up War Caster.
If you've got a weapon and a Shield drawn, and don't have War Caster, your casting options - and thus, your flexibility as a Battle Cleric - drop significantly.


This is important because it actually does allow a Cleric's melee damage to stay relevant at higher levels...

I guess my issue with this is, if you're playing a Cleric, and you're high level, and you want Melee damage to be relevant:
a) You could've been playing a Paladin the entire time, or
b) How do you not have Fighter levels yet?

As CTurbo said - and I already said - the main benefit of a Tempest Cleric is being a full caster with extremely strong AoE damage spells, in Heavy Armour + Shield. Your ability to do Melee damage - especially after Level 8 - should not be a concern.

[Sorinth]

My issue with Booming Blade is that it costs Magic Initiate to get, that is, a Feat.

If you're playing a caster-Cleric, and you've got a free Feat, you should be picking up War Caster.
If you've got a weapon and a Shield drawn, and don't have War Caster, your casting options - and thus, your flexibility as a Battle Cleric - drop significantly.

High Elf gets you a free cantrip which can be used for BB.
You can also mutliclass to get Booming Blade, 3 levels of fighter for Eldritch Knight is a decent option since you get a fighting style and action surge, and access to Shield is always nice. A 2 level dip in wizard/warlock can also be cool since there are a number of cool options to go with such as Bladesong, Portent, Arcane Deflection or invocations and some cools spells. Beyond Shield, Absorb Elements, Find Familiar, Armor of Agathys are all solid pick ups and if going Wizard instead of Warlock you don't lose out on spell slots.

But yeah Warcaster is the bigger priority then Magic Initiate.


I guess my issue with this is, if you're playing a Cleric, and you're high level, and you want Melee damage to be relevant:
a) You could've been playing a Paladin the entire time, or
b) How do you not have Fighter levels yet?

As CTurbo said - and I already said - the main benefit of a Tempest Cleric is being a full caster with extremely strong AoE damage spells, in Heavy Armour + Shield. Your ability to do Melee damage - especially after Level 8 - should not be a concern.

Certainly being a caster is the selling point and is probably why the OP wanted to be a cleric instead of a Paladin. And sure you can absolutely be a Blaster type character who isn't squishy as a Tempest cleric, but the OP mentioned wanting to be a tank but was worried that melee falls off at higher levels. I was pointing out that isn't strictly true, with BB melee doesn't fall at higher levels so you can still tank effectively.

So for example, turn 1 upcast Spirit Guardians and get into the thick of the enemy. Turn 2+ use BB to do decent damage and do the tank's job of keeping the enemy from getting up close to the squishy characters at the back. This is a perfectly viable Tempest build even if it's not the most optimized.

[CTurbo]

Optimizing a 5e Cleric, any domain, even War, for maximum melee damage, is a trap. Tempest Clerics can be great tanks while never ever touching their weapon.

[LudicSavant]

Optimizing a 5e Cleric, any domain, even War, is a trap.

Choosing trap options is the opposite of optimizing.

[CTurbo]

Choosing trap options is the opposite of optimizing.



I edited it considering I missed the most important words in the statement lol

[djreynolds]

Cleric is really the one caster class that could leave their wisdom at a 16 or 18... you don't need a 20 in wisdom

I recommend picking a race you want to play and from their decide whether you'll be strength or dex based

If you have 16s in you wisdom and attack stat.... you are golden.

I have found in 5E the plusses and minuses are not as detrimental as they were is previous additions because of bounded accuracy

What you want in 5E are really shoring up your defenses, especially wisdom saves, constitution saves/checks, and an AC of 18 if you are in melee, basically chainmail and shield or scale mail and shield with a 14 dex

The other thing is having a reliable bonus action and reaction... that are useful

So I second grabbing war caster and resilient con if you can fit it in, then you can worry about maxing wisdom.

Most clerics are going to be in melee just because they are fixing stuff with debuffing and the fighter is overwhelmed or the rogue needs a consistent sneak attack.

What you want is "not" to lose concentration or be taken out by a nasty constitution save, and when spamming spirit guardians making people pay from fleeing from you. So war caster and resilient con are both great

Good luck

PS I played a life cleric in CoS and my wisdom was maxed... and I ended up tanking and not casting big spells, and I was paralyzed on many occasions even with a 16 in constitution and dropped concentration a lot

Looking back I should've taken resilient con at 4th level, SCAG did not exist yet.

You might find yourself in a party that doesn't need you to tank and this will of course change your choices. Right now you are just brainstorming and party composition will affect future decisions as will the adventure.

[Cheesegear]

Back to the OP...


our group of six or seven is a lacking a tanking character. Some characters we have is monk, wizard, sorcerer, etc.

This bothers me. Out of Six or Seven players (including you, I assume), you only listed three characters. There's still three or four more characters, if you're going to be a Tempest Cleric (Heavy Armour & Shield)...What are the other two doing?

Who is the melee damage per round?
Is everyone playing ranged and casters...Or a Monk.
Even if you end up tanking, it's still a very poorly optimised party for 'any encounter'.

[bendking]

Here's a cool Tempest Cleric/Storm Sorcerer build I made focused on tanking and blasting, you might enjoy it:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24325811&postcount=300