what if everyone had abrupt jaunt?

[King of Nowhere]

I have to provide context, otherwise this won't make any sense.

I ended a long campaign.
I have some possible plan to run a new campaign in the same world, in the future. the events of the previous campaign will have shaped the world in many ways. This means tech has progressed. especially magic has progressed.
In the previous campaign, i enforced a relatively low optimization ceiling, especially for casters. the thing is, if you start to optimize, combat becomes rocket tag, because attack can be optimized much more than defence. you can still mount an effective defence, but you have to rely on avoiding the attacks (cover, concealment, breaking line of effect, and so on). This leads to the game becoming much more complicated than we'd all like. Also, some party members were total noobs and could not have handled it (those guys dropped out, so it's no longer a concern).
Now, I want to give the feeling that things have progressed by removing many limitations on magic. Away with most stops on metamagic abuse, all the way to mailman builds. still banning the most ludicrous campaign-ending stuff, and probably action economy abuse. Anyway, I'll give the casters the capacity to smoke pretty much any target.
But I don't want the game to be too fast. I need to come up with suitable defences.
One thing I can use is that the campaign world was already well above the normally assumed wealth. they used undead and constructs for menial labor, which gave them the resources for widespread public schooling, which meant tons of casters up to mid level. So, magic and items were very common. I plan for the world to keep on this course, and to be at industrial revolution level technology - with magic providing elements more commonly associated with the information age.
So, I was thinking to have some magic item that was very cheap and could shore up defences to keep fights longer. But I could never come up with a suitable idea, until today.

So, the idea is that there will be some item, cheap enough that everyone will have it, that will grant abrupt jaunt (and possibly some other necessary effect).
Let's see the pros
- it will stop a mailman from instakilling with a force orb
- most save-or-die targeted spells are still available
- it will help break up a full attack or single high damage attack
- it will not make low level fighting
- it is not mechanically too complex to use
those five conditions are pretty much required. To have the combat mechanics I prefer it needs that a single character caught flat-footed and without contingencies by an equally leveled enemy is not smoked on the spot (hence stopping both a mailman and an ubercharger). But I also want less powerful effects - those that can be resisted with a passive mechanic - to still work. And I want low level (level 5 or so; in this advanced world, people below that level will be still in school) combat to still make sense; so, some of my earlier ideas, like flat damage reduction or touch ac boost, would not work as they'd make it impossible to hit each other at low level.

I'd appreciate some feedback; do you think this idea can have the intended effect? what hurtful side effects would you anticipate? would you have some different idea to achieve my goals?
Thanks

EDIT: i realize this would stop casters from casting quickened spells, which they'd need if their first spell can be avoided almost effortlessly. So maybe make it a free action instead of swift, but still limited to 1/round

[Aracor]

Let's see the pros
- it will stop a mailman from instakilling with a force orb - It doesn't do this. Mechanically, there is no point between making the attack roll and hitting, so there's no point (mechanically) for someone to jaunt.
- most save-or-die targeted spells are still available
- it will help break up a full attack or single high damage attack - Yes to part A, no to part B. For the same reason as listed above.
- it will not make low level fighting - ?
- it is not mechanically too complex to use - It actually does need some adjudication. I've always ruled that it works anytime BETWEEN other people's actions. However, it cannot occur DURING another action.

Also since it's an immediate action, it can't be taken while flat-footed, so it doesn't help someone getting ubercharged and smited before they can act.

[Thunder999]

In order:

- it will stop a mailman from instakilling with a force orb
It won't, even assuming you can dodge a single force orb (some people even say you can't) the mailman does not kill you with a single force orb, the mailman casts multiple in a single round, you dodge one then the rest hit.

- it will help break up a full attack or single high damage attack
That it will, effectively making anyone not able to move mid full attack or fight at range completely and utterly incapable of winning a 1v1, not quite sure why you consider this a good thing.


EDIT: i realize this would stop casters from casting quickened spells, which they'd need if their first spell can be avoided almost effortlessly. So maybe make it a free action instead of swift, but still limited to 1/round
Just separate immediate and swift actions from each other, you get 1 each and most people will spend their immediate on this (apart from a few casters who prefer to cast celerity).

[Ramza00]

More or less this is why Path of War is a boom to martials and everyone else but it is actually a decrease in PC strength compared to your enemies for now your enemies get 2nd level immediate action maneuvers which allow you to do a skill check against an enemies attack roll as an immediate action. Likewise there are similar dreamscarred psionic powers that do this for ranged and melee attacks (different 2nd level psionic power for each.)

Now your enemies have a use for their immediate / swift action not just the PCs. :smalltongue:

[King of Nowhere]

Let's see the pros
- it will stop a mailman from instakilling with a force orb - It doesn't do this. Mechanically, there is no point between making the attack roll and hitting, so there's no point (mechanically) for someone to jaunt.
- most save-or-die targeted spells are still available
- it will help break up a full attack or single high damage attack - Yes to part A, no to part B. For the same reason as listed above.
- it will not make low level fighting - ?
- it is not mechanically too complex to use - It actually does need some adjudication. I've always ruled that it works anytime BETWEEN other people's actions. However, it cannot occur DURING another action.

Also since it's an immediate action, it can't be taken while flat-footed, so it doesn't help someone getting ubercharged and smited before they can act.

ok, i see.
how about making it part of a contingency then? perhaps one that also release smoke bombs? nothing insurmontable, but at least you'd have to waste one attack to trigger it and do something about the smoke
is there any way I can salvage the concept, or do i have to go back to the drawing board?


It won't, even assuming you can dodge a single force orb (some people even say you can't) the mailman does not kill you with a single force orb, the mailman casts multiple in a single round, you dodge one then the rest hit.
depends on how you rule the ocular rays - twinned. sure, it's 4 different to-hit, but they are made at the same time. so, if you dodge one by suddeny being somewhere else, you should dodge all four of them. at least, there's enough of an argument. and then there's the quickened spell, but at least you avoided the main hit.

[Kayblis]

Ok, let's first go to what Abrupt Jaunt does, then how it interacts with what you want to do, and then see if if actually accomplishes what you expect it to.

To start, Abrupt Jaunt lets you teleport up to 10ft as an immediate action. That's the effect, nothing more. You can activate it during other people's turn, and it takes effect immediately as it's called upon.

Now let's see what that means. First, an immediate action takes place, as expected, immediately as it's called. This means you can only activate it to avoid a melee attack if you call it before the roll. There's no separation between hitting and damage in the system, one is a direct consequence of the other and exist together as a "melee attack". This means you can't dodge a crit, because the crit was already rolled. You can in fact avoid full-attacks, as they take place one after the other(you can even change targets if you want, like if you down your enemy on your first hit), but only if you can teleport outside the enemy's range.

That last part brings us to the big thing: attacks and spells are called upon a creature. When you swing a sword, you're attacking a specific target, not a specific space. If your teleport doesn't take you out of the attack range(melee range for a hit, spell range for a spell), you're still hit. This means you can't dodge that mailman's Orb of Force, unless you're at the very edge of his spell range and teleports out, which let's face it, is never the case. This is a piece of rules that people often miss, and the text for Immediate actions notes you only cancel an action if you make it impossible for the action to complete(e.g. getting out of range). This big thing also means that, if you try to teleport away from a full-attack and your enemy has big reach, you're still taking every single attack.

With that in mind, let's see the effects:
-You can't avoid a mailman's targetted blasting spell.
-You can't avoid SoDs, SoLs or SoSs unless it's an area effect and you're close to the edge, or it's a melee touch attack.
-It consumes your next Swift action.
-It makes martials obsolete unless they can invest in reach, so getting big or gaining longer reach becomes a necessary tax to stay relevant at any level, on top of all the taxes you already face as a martial. It does nothing to ranged attackers, which is an issue too.
-It breaks low level fights, because no one will ever be hit in melee on 1v1s and if you can't use range, you already lost.
-It enforces swarming. Everyone piling up on a single enemy at a time won't be "good tactics" anymore, it'll be "bare minimum". Expect people to drop like flies to appropriate level encounters unless everyone but the PCs are braindead.

All in all, it sounds like the effect will be making noncasters' lives more miserable without addressing the issue you want, which is having magic being more common and advanced than usual. Fights being longer or shorter depends on party composition, player skill, types of enemies and encounters, and many others. Don't be afraid to let a simple fight end fast, you'll get the hang of how to make fights last with practice as a DM. Trust me, actual high op is not like the sterilized, featureless room 1v1 build-wanking you see in forums, and group fights are never that easy.

[Firest Kathon]

-It makes martials obsolete unless they can invest in reach, so getting big or gaining longer reach becomes a necessary tax to stay relevant at any level, on top of all the taxes you already face as a martial. It does nothing to ranged attackers, which is an issue too.

What's worse: even reach does not help you when you are making a charge, because the rules (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge) say:

First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent.
So you cannot move up to the opponent during a charge, you have to stop your movement as soon as they are in your reach, meaning a single 5-ft. movement will take them out of range again.

[King of Nowhere]

So you cannot move up to the opponent during a charge, you have to stop your movement as soon as they are in your reach, meaning a single 5-ft. movement will take them out of range again.
i was thinking you could use your jaunt to follow up an enemy without breaking your attack routine. I'm not too well versed into action time resolution.

It enforces swarming. Everyone piling up on a single enemy at a time won't be "good tactics" anymore, it'll be "bare minimum".
and that is different from normal how? i had two dedicated healers in the party, and the mechanics of the world favored the 15 minutes adventuring day; so, everything that didn't drop a pc straight out may as well never have exhisted the next round :P

anyway, i can see that i need a different idea. I think i'll open a new thread

[Quertus]

Yeah, this is pretty bad. OK, that's an opinion, based on how I like to play, rather than an objective fact, but still. When "strategy" is all but reduced to "do we have more people than them yes/no", I'll argue that you've done something wrong.

Also, have your party go fight monsters, not other citizens of their empire. Even if those "monsters" are other nations, if you roll like that.

So, give all the PCs - and none of their foes - Abrupt Jaunt at will. It's a great "reward" for their success last campaign.

EDIT: if you *insist* on the PCs fighting their countrymen, this change may, depending on the wording of your "totally not Abrupt Jaunt", a) involve much higher resource expenditure, especially from blasters (conventional wisdom around here says that they are the *worst* casters, and need buffs, not weaknesses); b) make your game play more like Exalted. Your call whether that's good or bad.