If you rolled one 18 and otherwise very low - what would you play?

[Wasp]

Hi everyone!

I was wondering: If you rolled for your stats and got an 18 and otherwise "crap" - let's say 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 or something similar - what would you play?

Not asking for specific reasons... :smallbiggrin:

[Wizard_Lizard]

Most obvious choice is rogue
Go for thief archetype probably.
Rogues pretty much ONLY use DEX, aside from a few subclasses.

[JNAProductions]

Moon Druid's a good choice. Slap that 18 in Wisdom, wildshape to get around your mediocre Constitution, and be Druidy.

Alternatively, Hill Dwarf Heavy Armor User.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Con might end up pretty low but having the opportunity to start with a 20 could be good.

I'm gonna go with the boring and easy answer, Half Elf Hexblade with +1 Con/+1 Dex for a 9/12/12/9/10/20. Use and abuse that Medium Armor/Shield Proficiency.

[MaxWilson]

Hi everyone!

I was wondering: If you rolled for your stats and got an 18 and otherwise "crap" - let's say 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 or something similar - what would you play?

Not asking for specific reasons... :smallbiggrin:

House Phiarlan (Mark of Shadow) Half-Elven Sharpshooter EK, eventually with Elven Accuracy (level 6), Crossbow Expert (level 8), Prodigy/Athletics (level 12), and hopefully Defensive Duelist (level 14). Both SAD and so much fun with both stealth and flash.

[Wasp]

Hmmm, good points.

I assume a Battlesmith/Bladesinger wouldn't be the best idea? I mean it uses INT for everything, isn't it :smallbiggrin:

[Sam113097]

Kind of a weird solution, but I’d just play a Stout Halfling to get my Con and Dex just a little bit better to keep me from dying so fast, and then just pick whatever full spellcaster seems the most fun (Cleric might be good due to the added AC). Dang, now I kind of want to play a halfling bladesinger.

[Christew]

Hmmm, good points.

I assume a Battlesmith/Bladesinger wouldn't be the best idea? I mean it uses INT for everything, isn't it :smallbiggrin:

It would use INT for attack, damage, and AC. The lacking CON for HP, saves, and most importantly concentration would hurt pretty bad.

I think Moon Druid is probably safest. Use beefy wildshapes for physical stats and crank WIS.

[JakOfAllTirades]

A Bard or Cleric? An 18 CHA or WIS is solid, so I'd pick a race that gets Dex/Con boosts. Goblins and Halfling (stouts) are good, but I'm partial to Shadar-Kai. Half Elves and Variant Humans would also work.

A ranged Battlemaster would also be playable. Same racial picks as above. (Banneret, Champion, and Samurai are also possible.)

[Makorel]

Probably a Ranged Dex Fighter. You don't need stats to wear heavy armor and I would shore up any weaknesses with the extra ASI bumps.

[Dork_Forge]

Hmmm, good points.

I assume a Battlesmith/Bladesinger wouldn't be the best idea? I mean it uses INT for everything, isn't it :smallbiggrin:

That seems like a pretty good combo, especially since you can patch some weak stats with infusions and spells. Would your DM lift the elf only restriction on Bladesinger? With 4 odd stats it's a good a time as any to play a vanilla human.

[Amechra]

Put it into Wisdom, then play a VHuman Shadow Monk with Magic Initiate (Druid) to pick up Shillelagh (and whatever other Druid goodies you'd want).

Go with Str 9, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 18, Cha 10.

Be the Old Ninja Master. Bap fools on the head with your Staff of Wisdom. You are a little senile, but that's only to be expected! You are very old, after all.

[Luccan]

Play a full caster, probably. Not a cleric with Heavy Armor, though, since that probably won't be usable without investing ASIs in Strength. Alternately, a Dex-based Fighter or a Rogue. Stay away from Barbarian, Monk, and the half casters, since they kinda rely on 2-3 stats.


Notably, default human will turn 2 of your attributes into 12s, the 9s into 10s, and with a 19 in your prime stat you can max it out with a half feat at level 4 or split your ASI with one of your two new 11s.

[MaxWilson]

Play a full caster, probably. Not a cleric with Heavy Armor, though, since that probably won't be usable without investing ASIs in Strength.

Just offset the speed penalty with Mobile feat. No Str required.

[Wasp]

Okay, those are quite a few options already. Main favorite seems to be the Moon Druid.


Moon Druid
Rogue (Thief)
Hill Dwarf for Heavy Armor use
Half Elf Hexblade with +1 Con/+1 Dex
Stout Halfling Full Caster (Cleric or Bladesinger?)
Goblin, Stout Halfling, Shadar-Kai, Half Elf or Variant Human Bard or Cleric
Goblin, Stout Halfling, Shadar-Kai, Half Elf or Variant Human Ranged Battlemaster (or Banneret, Champion, and Samurai)
VHuman Shadow Monk with Magic Initiate (Druid) to pick up Shillelaghr



That seems like a pretty good combo, especially since you can patch some weak stats with infusions and spells. Would your DM lift the elf only restriction on Bladesinger? With 4 odd stats it's a good a time as any to play a vanilla human.
Probably. We don't particularly like race restrictions for subclasses. It's not 3.5 anympre :smallbiggrin:

Plus: nobody ever plays a vanilla human...

[Foxydono]

A warforged paladin, take +1 Str and for your first ASI take heavy armor master. Now you can multiclass into hexblade. Take Paladin 6 / Warlock 2 (devil's sight and Agonizing Blast). Your build in now online: two attacks, SAD, good HP, 21 AC, smites, healing, damage reduction, +4 on all saves and ranged damage options.

After this you can do whatever you like. Go Paladin 18, progress further into warlock, multiclass into sorcerer. Your top ASI options are +2 Cha, Resilient Con and war caster.

[Arkhios]

Wizard.

War Magic tradition to be precise.

Alternatively, an artificer.

[diplomancer]

Your constitution is going to be low, so a hill dwarf is a good choice. Put the 18 in Dex, 11 Wis, Con 10, and be either a rogue, ranger (they don't need wis that much) or fighter. Good AC and HPs, decent saves.

I think wizard or sorcerer with a 12 (at best) constitution is almost suicidal. MAYBE a variant human with the tough feat.

[Arkhios]

Your constitution is going to be low, so a hill dwarf is a good choice. Put the 18 in Dex, 11 Wis, Con 10, and be either a rogue, ranger (they don't need wis that much) or fighter. Good AC and HPs, decent saves.

I think wizard or sorcerer with a 12 (at best) constitution is almost suicidal. MAYBE a variant human with the tough feat.

Pfft. Wizard with con 12 has 7 hit points at first level. That's more than a magic-user used to have, or a wizard in 3rd edition. They'll be fine! :smallbiggrin:

Int 18+ at first level is gonna make the enemies fear a wizard.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Probably a Ranged Dex Fighter. You don't need stats to wear heavy armor and I would shore up any weaknesses with the extra ASI bumps.

If you have an 18 or 20 in Dex you don't really need heavy armor.

[Eldariel]

Sadly lacking Con makes most builds about as durable as toilet paper. The single build that gets around it is Moon Druid. Otherwise, be prepared to only fight through proxies/from very far away and avoid melee like plague.

Vuman is good tho; Res: Con gives you key save prof and pumps you to even Con while you put your level 1 points in casting stat and Dex. Hell, Con and casting stat is also valid. Gets you 20 casting stat and 14 Con level 4.

[JumboWheat01]

I would do something different, put that 18 in Con, and maybe go with Bard or Rogue with Expertise in Athletics, focus on grappling and letting my beefier HP keep me alive. With Rogue I would have the extra ASI for boosting stats over Bard, so probably that first.

[nickl_2000]

I would be a dex based archer samurai longbow fighter. Either Wood Elf or Tabaxi

You have enough feats to get SS and Ritual caster so you are useful outside of combat, you get extra proficiency, and you have ASIs left to boost stats as necessary since you are at 20 Dex at level one.

[TheUser]

Moon Druid is the ideal answer because it allows you to not immediately get gutted for not having a good con score while also being able to have a high casting stat.

[Ason]

I'd probably pick a ranged class so that my lack of a good constitution score doesn't hurt me too much. You need your class choice to be able to get by with just one decent ability score, and that tends to mean either archers or casters. Great choices include...


Moon Druid: your wild shape makes up for your wimpy physical scores, but you still need to be careful, as once your beast hit points are gone you'll be stuck in melee and incredibly squishy
Fiend Pact Warlock: eldritch blast can keep your damage output on track, while the temporary hit points from the fiend pact will help you survive as you blast from the back row
Wizard: wizards are famously frail but powerful casters who hide in the back, and that stereotype works for a reason; pick a subclass that grants defensive features like divination, abjuration, war mage, or bladesinger (use a bow rather than a sword)
Wood Elf Rogue: sit in the back firing your longbow so that Dex is the only ability you need; pick an archetype that works well with bows like mastermind, as despite the perks of flanking you do not want to get into melee

[Christew]

Pfft. Wizard with con 12 has 7 hit points at first level. That's more than a magic-user used to have, or a wizard in 3rd edition. They'll be fine! :smallbiggrin:

Int 18+ at first level is gonna make the enemies fear a wizard.
Less an issue at level 1 than a scaling issue. With 12 CON you will fall further and further behind more balanced characters with every level. Cross-edition comparison is a bit silly. You will be fighting 5e gobbos (which could easily one shot a 7hp character), not 3e.

[Keravath]

Probably ranged dex fighter or rogue or fighter/rogue multiclass. Crossbow expert + sharpshooter. Maybe variant human to start with a feat or elf to start with a 20 in dex. If variant human put a 12 in con and a 10 in int or str. 11 in wis and take resilient wis later. last 9 in cha. Maybe fighter 6/rogue 14 which gets extra attack and the extra feat at level 6.

[Amechra]

Less an issue at level 1 than a scaling issue. With 12 CON you will fall further and further behind more balanced characters with every level. Cross-edition comparison is a bit silly. You will be fighting 5e gobbos (which could easily one shot a 7hp character), not 3e.

That's the joke.

Anyway - another possibility is playing a Fire Genasi Abjuration Wizard. Start with Int 19 and Con 13 (so you can bump them up to 20 and 14 at 4th level), and enjoy being surprisingly durable. Seriously, it lets you effectively act like you have Con 18 for the purposes of HP by 4th level. You could go for a VHuman with Resilient Constitution instead if you're boring.

Your AC will be low-ish, but you have Shield.

[diplomancer]

Pfft. Wizard with con 12 has 7 hit points at first level. That's more than a magic-user used to have, or a wizard in 3rd edition. They'll be fine! :smallbiggrin:

Int 18+ at first level is gonna make the enemies fear a wizard.

7 HP, terrible AC unless you use your slots just to shore up your defenses (then it's mediocre AC)

I usually don't agree with people who say that Dex is the god-stat. But an array like this does bring the advantages of a high dex to the forefront.

I'd say that the only 2 possible choices with ok survivability are moon druids and dex builds

[Sigreid]

Those rolls aren't that low overall. You can build a competent character of any class with those stats.

[Amechra]

7 HP, terrible AC unless you use your slots just to shore up your defenses (then it's mediocre AC)

I usually don't agree with people who say that Dex is the god-stat. But an array like this does bring the advantages of a high dex to the forefront.

I'd say that the only 2 possible choices with ok survivability are moon druids and dex builds

Play a Hill Dwarf Fighter. Put that 18 into Strength and sink one of your 10s into getting a 12 Con. You effectively have 14 Con thanks to your racial features, and heavy armor lets you get away with not having Dexterity.

[2D8HP]

Hi everyone!

I was wondering: If you rolled for your stats and got an 18 and otherwise "crap" - let's say 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 or something similar - what would you play?

Not asking for specific reasons... :smallbiggrin:


What PC would I play?

"Hans"

E.T.A.:
Hans needs Dex 13 in order for...
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but for the 4th level ASI...Fixed (I hope!)

Race: Standard Human

Background: Folk Hero

Class: Barbarian

STR:19, DEX:12, CON:12, INT:10 WIS:10, CHA:11

Skills: Animal Handling, Athletics, Perception, Survival

Second Level
Class: Barbarian

Third to Sixth Level
Class: Fighter
Subclass: Champion

Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting
ASI: +1 to DEX


Seventh to 9th Level
Class: Rogue
Subclass: Swashbuckler

Additional Skill: Stealth
Expertise in: Perception, and Stealth

Levels 10 to 16:
Class: Fighter to 11th level

Fighting Style Archery,
ASI's: +1 DEX, +1 INT, +1 STR

Levels 17 - 20
Class: Rogue to 7th level
ASI: +2 DEX
Expertise in: Athletics, and Thieves tools

The back story of "Hans d'Shovel":

Once upon a time a spell-caster came to the village of Dorfweitwegvonüberall, and made a grand entrance with his hat and robe with stars and moons, and his wand, and changing reality to fit his will.

The Spell Caster, being bored decided to look for some action, or make some. In looking around he finally laid eyes on a young lady named Gertrudt.

It just so happens that a young lad of the village by the Hans also long had eyes for Gertrudt, and he didn't like "Mr. High-and-mighty-magic-man" eyeing his girl (or rather the girl whom he'd like to be his girl).

With Hans was his dog (puppy really) called Fritz.

Now Fritz didn't know why, but he could sense that the man in the robe leaning over the fence, talking to the large human women, was angering his boy Hans, and in an instant, Fritz's little doggie mind made a split decision to bite the robed man.

"Ouch! What the...? Away you miserable cur!"

...bellowed the spell-caster as he kicked at the little dog, and just when he raised his wand and started an incantation (as testified to by two village men of good reputation, "who saw the whole thing")...BAM!

Hans, defending his dog went right behind the magic-user, and bashed in his skull with a shovel.

Upon seeing the magician dead (and the size of his coinpurse), the good people of Dorfweitwegvonüberall declared that Hans had rid them of a great evil that had turned several of the regulars at villages tavern (called "The Tavern") into toads the night before (they got better).

Hans gloried in the new attention, everyone looked at him differently, especially Gertrudt (who now looked at him at all), and soon it was decided that there was a whole world full of Wizards, Warlocks, and Witches, that had to be met by a hero of Hans stature, and the world couldn't wait, and he needed to go right now!

And so Hans, handed some rations, a bedroll, and an axe, set forth...

[MaxWilson]

Hans needs Dex 13 in order for multiclassing to Rogue to be legal. You will need to take Champion 4 before Rogue 1, or switch to variant human and take Resilient (Dex) or something.

[2D8HP]

Hans needs Dex 13 in order for multiclassing to Rogue to be legal. You will need to take Champion 4 before Rogue 1, or switch to variant human and take Resilient (Dex) or something.


Thanks!

Will edit.

[diplomancer]

Play a Hill Dwarf Fighter. Put that 18 into Strength and sink one of your 10s into getting a 12 Con. You effectively have 14 Con thanks to your racial features, and heavy armor lets you get away with not having Dexterity.

This works, but honestly I'm not sure how survivable is a frontine fighter with only 14 (effective) Con (note: it's more like 14* Con, since it only affects your hp maximum, not your saving throw proficiency and your hit dice healing). Frontline Fighters try to have at least a 16.

I like a dex hill dwarf fighter/rogue multiclass, or a ranger single class better. You stay more in the back lines, but have the stamina to go to the front lines when needed

[Amechra]

This works, but honestly I'm not sure how survivable is a frontine fighter with only 14 (effective) Con. Frontline Fighters try to have at least a 16.

I like a dex hill dwarf fighter/rogue multiclass, or a ranger single class better. You stay more in the back lines, but have the stamina to go to the front lines when needed

I think you just need to grab Tough at 4th level, and you'll be "fine".

[ProsecutorGodot]

Thanks!

Will edit.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but for the 4th level ASI in the fixed version you forgot the Dex +1. Your ASI for 7-16 also has +2 Dex and +1 Int with no mention of a feat.

EDIT: On further inspection, being a standard human still, you shouldn't have a 9 Int but a 10 assuming you put the lowest available options there. Something's not quite adding up here. Chalk it up to "or something similar" and I'll take my nitpicking elsewhere.

[JumboWheat01]

I think you just need to grab Tough at 4th level, and you'll be "fine".

Why Tough? Wouldn't a straight +2 Con be better? Sure, you only gain 1 HP, but you're also gaining +1 to your Con saves.

[MaxWilson]

This works, but honestly I'm not sure how survivable is a frontine fighter with only 14 (effective) Con (note: it's more like 14* Con, since it only affects your hp maximum, not your saving throw proficiency and your hit dice healing). Frontline Fighters try to have at least a 16.

People obsess way too much about tiny stat differences. One PC with Inspiring Leader gives more party-wide HP than +2 Con for *everybody*, and it refreshes on a short rest. Healer feat is almost as good, and of course Aura of Vitality and Healing Spirit are ridiculously good, and Goodberry isn't bad. Feats like Defensive Duelist and Lucky can be far more effective at keeping you alive than a measly extra +1 HP per level (and +5% pass rate on Con saves) from Con +2.

The real survivability question isn't "how high is your Con", it's "what is your party composition and what are your general group tactics?"

[2D8HP]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but ...
.

...being a standard human still, you shouldn't have a 9 Int...


Thanks, fixed but the 9 INT was appropriate for the PC's player :redface:

[Foxydono]

A warforged paladin, take +1 Str and for your first ASI take heavy armor master. Now you can multiclass into hexblade. Take Paladin 6 / Warlock 2 (devil's sight and Agonizing Blast). Your build in now online: two attacks, SAD, good HP, 21 AC, smites, healing, damage reduction, +4 on all saves and ranged damage options.

After this you can do whatever you like. Go Paladin 18, progress further into warlock, multiclass into sorcerer. Your top ASI options are +2 Cha, Resilient Con and war caster.
It's a bit strange quoting myself, but this is stil the best build I've seen. You got good saves, AC, HP, dmg reduction, good damage, everything.

The other good build is straight moon druid, it's a solid choice with 'bad' stats.

[Wasp]

The real survivability question isn't "how high is your Con", it's "what is your party composition and what are your general group tactics?"
Well, Arcana Cleric Front Liner, Diviner God Wizard and Hex-Bard seems to be what to expect at the moment...

[Warlush]

I'd probably pick a ranged class so that my lack of a good constitution score doesn't hurt me too much. You need your class choice to be able to get by with just one decent ability score, and that tends to mean either archers or casters. Great choices include...


Fiend Pact Warlock: eldritch blast can keep your damage output on track, while the temporary hit points from the fiend pact will help you survive as you blast from the back row


Might I add, Spell Sniper, Eldritch Spear, and the Fly spell will keep you out of danger.
Also consider going Pact of the Chain to have your familiar deliver touch spells.

[Lyracian]

Hi everyone!
I was wondering: If you rolled for your stats and got an 18 and otherwise "crap" - let's say 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 or something similar - what would you play?
Not asking for specific reasons... :smallbiggrin:
Given most of my characters spend 1-2 ASI's on getting a 20 in their primary stat I would happy play an Elven Rogue with 20 Dex and spend my first two ASI on Res: Con and +Con to get it to 14. A Dex based Fighter or Fighter/Rogue works as well. Depending on what level we are starting or planning to play to I would still pick Arcane Trickster; Shield & Invis do not need Int! If we were likely to play much above 13, and in a campaign with plenty of magic items, then U.M.D. is interesting.

My second thought would be Hill Dwarf Cleric in heavy armour. 19 Wis and 13 con which I can boost with Resistance to 14 and still have 20 Wis at level 8. Nature or Forge domain.

I find all the comments from people complaining about only having a 12 Con amusing. I know people on forums tend to optimize but I am sure we have all seen plenty of characters with average numbers do fine in games.

[Amechra]

Why Tough? Wouldn't a straight +2 Con be better? Sure, you only gain 1 HP, but you're also gaining +1 to your Con saves.

Because clearly the problem was HP. :tongue:

+2 Con would probably be better, though.

[Citadel97501]

I would play a god-wizard probably a Warmage. Just win initiative, and then control the battlefield.

[MaxWilson]

It's a bit strange quoting myself, but this is stil the best build I've seen. You got good saves, AC, HP, dmg reduction, good damage, everything.

Bad speed though, only 20' because with AC 21 you're in splint or plate armor with only Str 13. Warforged doesn't remove the movement penalty.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Bad speed though, only 20' because with AC 21 you're in splint or plate armor with only Str 13. Warforged doesn't remove the movement penalty.

They could be using the defunct version of Warforged with Heavy Armor Integrated Protection. At 8th level, which was the given example, their AC would be 21 with Heavy Plating and a Shield.

That's only an assumption though, because the math does also match simply having Plate Armor and a Shield with the new version of Integrated Protection.

[Arkhios]

7 HP, terrible AC unless you use your slots just to shore up your defenses (then it's mediocre AC)

I usually don't agree with people who say that Dex is the god-stat. But an array like this does bring the advantages of a high dex to the forefront.

I'd say that the only 2 possible choices with ok survivability are moon druids and dex builds

AC 14 (assuming dex 12) isn't terrible. It's same as a rogue or ranger would have with standard gear setup if using point-buy and standard gear setup: leather armor (AC 11+DEX).

[diplomancer]

AC 14 (assuming dex 12) isn't terrible. It's same as a rogue or ranger would have with standard gear setup if using point-buy and standard gear setup: leather armor (AC 11+DEX).

Not terrible, just mediocre. And you are using one of your 2 slots to shore up your defenses, like I mentioned. Mage armor is a great spell for wizard at later levels, not at level 1.

Rangers can start with scale mail.

[Wasp]

Thanks everyone! Lots of food for thought. But if anyone still has ideas...
Otherwise: Please continue with the discussion of the importance of CON, heavy armor and movement sped... :smallbiggrin:

[Foxydono]

Bad speed though, only 20' because with AC 21 you're in splint or plate armor with only Str 13. Warforged doesn't remove the movement penalty.
True, but you have Eldrich Blast if you are fighting ranged. Also, if you find a full plate mithril armor that problem is solved. But the rarity and price will depend on your DM, so better to ask how rare mithril armor is first.

[jas61292]

Personally, with a stat line like that, I'm going for a Hill Dwarf Cleric. One of the ones that gives Heavy Armor. Dwarf means you don't care about the strength limit of the armor. Hill Dwarf means +2 Con and extra HP on top of that. And if you put one of those 11s in Con, that means it is ripe for a half feat like Resilient to boost it to a respectable level. Other than Wisdom which would start as 19, you really don't care about any other stat, and can be very effective.

[MaxWilson]

Dwarf means you don't care about the strength limit of the armor.

Say rather that dwarf halves the speed penalty from -10' to -5' but applies it to you constantly, even when unarmored.

In both cases, you are unable to run away or keep your distance from any monster with even normal 30' speed. They're pretty much the same, tactically.

[False God]

Probably, but the 18 would go to some stat that didn't get buffed by my race. With all those odd scores though, a vanilla human would be a good pick. Something that doesn't rely on a lot of scores to do its thing, so probably a druid or a rogue.

[djreynolds]

I would roll either a gloomstalker ranger or samurai fighter archer.

Both at 7th get wisdom save proficiency, and as fighter you get con and strength saves and with your high dex that's 4 saves covered... and you can still take resilient something on top of this

As a ranger, you get wisdom, strength, dex and can grab resilient con.

So these 2 classes will give you decent saves. I would go wood elf also

Grab sharpshooter at 4th, just to increase distance of your shots

As a ranger grab resilient con at 8th

As a fighter at 6th get a 20 dex and even off an odd attribute, at 8th get the lucky feat or MI (cleric) for protection from evil spell or bless

[pming]

Hiya!


Hi everyone!

I was wondering: If you rolled for your stats and got an 18 and otherwise "crap" - let's say 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 or something similar - what would you play?

Not asking for specific reasons... :smallbiggrin:

😂

Seriously LOL'ed at that! :p

Let me put on my "Old Man Grognard" cap for a second...

Back in MY day, a character with 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 would be a great character! You want a bad character? Try 18, 10, 7, 9, 6, 5. THAT is a bad character. Even then, any Player worth his or her salt would see such a sucky sextuplet of stats not as a bad thing, but as a challenge! A challenge to play such a character and keep them alive to slowly climb the ranks and make a name for themselves! Why, on of my friends played a Fighter in BECMI named "Barkus Liebentaub". IIRC, His stats were Str 4, Int 10, Wis 11, Dex 14, Con 9, Cha 6. He's still alive...and he's 12th level...and he absolutely KICKS AZZ with his Volgue! He even has a signature move...he gets swallowed whole by a big creature and then hacks his way out! Barkus is one stinky, dirty, foul mouthed SOB...but damn'n'if he can't bring the smack down on his foes!

So...yeah. Those stats you listed? Not great, but not even CLOSE to being "bad". At least in my game. :)

[Laserlight]

Wizard and take cover.

[KorvinStarmast]

Hi everyone!

I was wondering: If you rolled for your stats and got an 18 and otherwise "crap" - let's say 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 or something similar - what would you play?

Not asking for specific reasons... :smallbiggrin:
Hmm, either a human or vHuman shadow sorcerer.
Let's to vHuman.
18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9

S 9 D 12 C 12 I 9 W 10 Ch 18
Feat: Alert or Tough. Need to think about that.
Background: Urchin or Entertainer.
Extra Skill would be perception probably.

[Luccan]

Hiya!



😂

Seriously LOL'ed at that! :p

Let me put on my "Old Man Grognard" cap for a second...

Back in MY day, a character with 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 would be a great character! You want a bad character? Try 18, 10, 7, 9, 6, 5. THAT is a bad character. Even then, any Player worth his or her salt would see such a sucky sextuplet of stats not as a bad thing, but as a challenge! A challenge to play such a character and keep them alive to slowly climb the ranks and make a name for themselves! Why, on of my friends played a Fighter in BECMI named "Barkus Liebentaub". IIRC, His stats were Str 4, Int 10, Wis 11, Dex 14, Con 9, Cha 6. He's still alive...and he's 12th level...and he absolutely KICKS AZZ with his Volgue! He even has a signature move...he gets swallowed whole by a big creature and then hacks his way out! Barkus is one stinky, dirty, foul mouthed SOB...but damn'n'if he can't bring the smack down on his foes!

So...yeah. Those stats you listed? Not great, but not even CLOSE to being "bad". At least in my game. :)

Stats from BECMI or even early AD&D do not translate to modern stats. While I think there are plenty of viable characters to be made from the OP's stats, both penalties and bonuses from stats were significantly less impactful back in the day. This is why 3d6 (in order or not) for stats is no longer the default rolling option given in the rules.

[MaxWilson]

Hiya!



😂

Seriously LOL'ed at that! :p

Let me put on my "Old Man Grognard" cap for a second...

Back in MY day, a character with 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 would be a great character! You want a bad character? Try 18, 10, 7, 9, 6, 5. THAT is a bad character. Even then, any Player worth his or her salt would see such a sucky sextuplet of stats not as a bad thing, but as a challenge! A challenge to play such a character and keep them alive to slowly climb the ranks and make a name for themselves! Why, on of my friends played a Fighter in BECMI named "Barkus Liebentaub". IIRC, His stats were Str 4, Int 10, Wis 11, Dex 14, Con 9, Cha 6. He's still alive...and he's 12th level...and he absolutely KICKS AZZ with his Volgue! He even has a signature move...he gets swallowed whole by a big creature and then hacks his way out! Barkus is one stinky, dirty, foul mouthed SOB...but damn'n'if he can't bring the smack down on his foes!

So...yeah. Those stats you listed? Not great, but not even CLOSE to being "bad". At least in my game. :)


Stats from BECMI or even early AD&D do not translate to modern stats. While I think there are plenty of viable characters to be made from the OP's stats, both penalties and bonuses from stats were significantly less impactful back in the day. This is why 3d6 (in order or not) for stats is no longer the default rolling option given in the rules.

I think that just makes Paul's point for him: the OP's stats aren't even close to being bad, but 18, 10, 7, 9, 6, 5 is pretty bad. E.g. even as a SAD, Dexy Fighter you'd still get stuck with either poor HP or some kind of mental disability. The character made from those stats is going to have real weaknesses that he needs to compensate for, during play. If it were me I'd make that

Human [Mobile] Fighter 1, aiming eventually for archer-track Eldritch Knight (Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Dex 20, Alert, Defensive Duelist, Tough, Resilient(Wis))
Str 6 Dex 18 Con 8 (7) Int 10 Wis 10 (9) Cha 5

Description: a slightly-built, spidery-looking fellow about 5'2" with an unhealthy cast to his pale skin and long, thin pianist's fingers. Abrupt social mannerisms, doesn't look people in the eye--has a real social inferiority complex which manifests as arrogance, and a near-inability to relate to other human beings, which forces him to rely on a few close friends to deal with outsiders on his behalf.

Preferred team role: sniper overwatch. Find high ground with a good view somewhere and be ready to support any other PC on the whole battlefield with death from above.

Secondary team role: indoors, put on a shield and draw a rapier, use spells like Blur (later on Darkness + Alert) and Shield to tank and keep friends safe.

[Eldariel]

I think that just makes Paul's point for him: the OP's stats aren't even close to being bad, but 18, 10, 7, 9, 6, 5 is pretty bad. E.g. even as a SAD, Dexy Fighter you'd still get stuck with either poor HP or some kind of mental disability. The character made from those stats is going to have real weaknesses that he needs to compensate for, during play. If it were me I'd make that

Human [Mobile] Fighter 1, aiming eventually for archer-track Eldritch Knight (Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Dex 20, Alert, Defensive Duelist, Tough, Resilient(Wis))
Str 6 Dex 18 Con 8 (7) Int 10 Wis 10 (9) Cha 5

Description: a slightly-built, spidery-looking fellow about 5'2" with an unhealthy cast to his pale skin and long, thin pianist's fingers. Abrupt social mannerisms, doesn't look people in the eye--has a real social inferiority complex which manifests as arrogance, and a near-inability to relate to other human beings, which forces him to rely on a few close friends to deal with outsiders on his behalf.

Preferred team role: sniper overwatch. Find high ground with a good view somewhere and be ready to support any other PC on the whole battlefield with death from above.

Secondary team role: indoors, put on a shield and draw a rapier, use spells like Blur (later on Darkness + Alert) and Shield to tank and keep friends safe.

Moon Druid still works pretty well even with those. You get your spells and once you hit level 2, you'll spend most of your time in animal shapes regardless of your physical stats. Getting 18 Wis casting on top of it all is just nice. Though 1st level would be really rough with 10 Con and 10 Dex. After that though it's mostly smooth sailing: pop a Con spell and shift. Being able to start with 20 in your main stat is just awesome (Vuman Moon Druid with Observant for 20 Wis and 11 Con [waiting for Res: Con] is going to be fairly darn good in the long run), though losing out on main form HP and AC is of course a bummer.

Bad stats have no redeeming qualities. Something like:
13, 10, 9, 5, 6, 7

There's nothing good about them, it's just bad overall. You suck at your primary thing and have no secondary things (though even then, Moon Druid would still work - just focus on spells without saves/attack rolls and spend as much time in animal forms as possible; it's pretty impossible to think of stats that a Moon Druid can't work with).

[Arkhios]

Not terrible, just mediocre. And you are using one of your 2 slots to shore up your defenses, like I mentioned. Mage armor is a great spell for wizard at later levels, not at level 1.

Rangers can start with scale mail.

Admittedly, I forgot rangers can choose between scale mail and leather armor. My point for rogue still stands.

At 1st level a wizard has 2 spell slots, that's true. One of which is almost mandatory to use for Mage Armor. Even so, Wizards still have their cantrips, which they can spam all day long, and for the first few levels, cantrips provide enough damage and utility, whichever is needed. Also, taking cover and/or laying low is always an option, and nothing to scoff at. Cover provides a +2 bonus to AC at the very least.

....aaaaanyway, I thought the OP was asking what would you do with a stat row like this. My answer was my choice. What's it to you if I would make a wizard because I like the challenge? :smallamused:

For my choice, the War Magic tradition would be vital part of the build, because it provides a Shield-Lite as a class feature (since it's not a spell it doesn't burn your spell slots and is usable even in situations where spells can't be used). That, and they get their intelligence modifier as a bonus to their initiative checks. With Dex 12 and Int 18, you'd have a whopping +5 bonus as soon as you get to 2nd level, and you have a good chance of acting among the first participants in combat and can get cover a.s.a.p. :P

[SLOTHRPG95]

At 1st level a wizard has 2 spell slots, that's true.

Technically true, but with Arcane Recovery they're guaranteed 3 if you can fit in even a single short rest. Which is not a given in all campaigns, but if you're having more than 1-2 encounters per day, it's probably a safe bet.

As for OP, I think I'll have to agree with several previous posters: those aren't actually bad stats. It's hard to say what I'd do with them, since there's just a plethora of options. Many have been explored by previous posters, but for my own 2cp: an arcane caster starting with a 19 or 20 in their casting stat after racial modifier, and just accept that you're going to be more squishy than the average optimized Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard build. Lean into the idea of squishy magic-user, and have fun being someone who can raise mountains and shatter armies, but once they're out of slots they're basically just a peasant in a bathrobe. Having weaknesses as well as strengths can be fun! Personally, I don't like playing characters that are over-optimized to the point of not having any real weakness.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Wood Elf Gloomstalker 5/Rogue X.

Put the 18 in Dex > 20 Dex start, Wisdom becomes 12. Take Elven Accuracy at 4th (+1 Wis to 13). Have to wait for Sharpshooter until 9th.

Go Archery/skirmisher all the way, and pick up Res Wis at 13th level for a 12 Con.

Rangers are very Dex SAD, and so is Rogue.

[Luccan]

I think that just makes Paul's point for him: the OP's stats aren't even close to being bad, but 18, 10, 7, 9, 6, 5 is pretty bad. E.g. even as a SAD, Dexy Fighter you'd still get stuck with either poor HP or some kind of mental disability. The character made from those stats is going to have real weaknesses that he needs to compensate for, during play. If it were me I'd make that

Human [Mobile] Fighter 1, aiming eventually for archer-track Eldritch Knight (Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Dex 20, Alert, Defensive Duelist, Tough, Resilient(Wis))
Str 6 Dex 18 Con 8 (7) Int 10 Wis 10 (9) Cha 5

Description: a slightly-built, spidery-looking fellow about 5'2" with an unhealthy cast to his pale skin and long, thin pianist's fingers. Abrupt social mannerisms, doesn't look people in the eye--has a real social inferiority complex which manifests as arrogance, and a near-inability to relate to other human beings, which forces him to rely on a few close friends to deal with outsiders on his behalf.

Preferred team role: sniper overwatch. Find high ground with a good view somewhere and be ready to support any other PC on the whole battlefield with death from above.

Secondary team role: indoors, put on a shield and draw a rapier, use spells like Blur (later on Darkness + Alert) and Shield to tank and keep friends safe.

My point was that in an old school game, most of those low stats have no effect on your abilities as a character. In 5e, +0 absolutely makes you bad at things relative to the sorts of checks you'll normally make. Negatives are worse. It used to be almost entirely class that defined what you were good at, with exceptions only for the anomalies, your 15+s and 7-3s. The balance has shifted: it's a lot harder to be well rounded in 5e with multiple +0s and negative mods. Still possible, of course, especially for a caster, but there is absolutely a difference that impedes a 5e character with those stats over a BECMI character.

[ZorroGames]

Just offset the speed penalty with Mobile feat. No Str required.

Dwarf, probably Hill, also would eliminate the speed reduction for heavy armor.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Dwarf, probably Hill, also would eliminate the speed reduction for heavy armor.

Max brought up what I thought was a good point earlier, and that I immediately agreed with, in that Dwarves are lying a bit about how they ignore the penalty for heavy armor, they simply suffer half of the penalty all the time.

Would it really have been that problematic for them to have a standard 30ft movespeed?

[Luccan]

Max brought up what I thought was a good point earlier, and that I immediately agreed with, in that Dwarves are lying a bit about how they ignore the penalty for heavy armor, they simply suffer half of the penalty all the time.

Would it really have been that problematic for them to have a standard 30ft movespeed?

While I disagree with dwarves getting stuck with 25ft speed, they're not the only player race that suffers from it.

[Merellis]

Human Barbarian.

19 str, 12 dex and con, 10 int and wis, 11 cha.

Spend your 15 starting gold on either a shield or hide armor, then see how long you last. (personally think you'd go hide armor, carry a big axe, and just dive upon the enemy!)

[ProsecutorGodot]

While I disagree with dwarves getting stuck with 25ft speed, they're not the only player race that suffers from it.

The issue with them specifically is that they seem to be stuck with it only as trade off for their lack of heavy armor movement penalty. They're a Medium race, one of only 2 with a walking speed of 25ft. The other one is Aarakocra and I think they got better compensation.

[Luccan]

The issue with them specifically is that they seem to be stuck with it only as trade off for their lack of heavy armor movement penalty. They're a Medium race, one of only 2 with a walking speed of 25ft. The other one is Aarakocra and I think they got better compensation.

It's not like Small size is usually a benefit in 5e, unless you have a specific ability that interacts with your size. Halflings, IIRC, are the only player race that have such abilities. The narrow field of situations in which your exact size comes up outside racial abilities and being Small is the best option never seem to actually happen. Anecdotal, perhaps, but when was the last time you actually tried to move through another creature's space?