Good-aligned god of death/undead? Good undead?

[Greywander]

I was playing with the idea of a Good-aligned god of death, you know, doing the usual things like bringing the dead to the afterlife and protecting graveyards and the like. But I was thinking about how such a god might use undead, and if it was possible to have good-aligned undead?

Generally, raising undead is viewed as an "always Evil" act, perhaps because it might involve infusing a corpse with an evil spirit. Skeletons and zombies are Evil by default, and IIRC if left unattended they will attack any living thing that gets close. You might give them some instruction then walk away, only to return and find several corpses nearby, as your minions seem to append "and kill anyone who gets too close" to the end of all your instructions (YMMV with this, though). And then there's losing control over your undead servants. If you allow the Animate Dead spell to lapse, your undead become hostile to everyone, including you.

So I was wondering if it might be possible to create undead by infusing them with a Good-aligned spirit instead of an Evil one. This isn't just a cosmetic change, however, as it would change how they would act when not under your supervision or control. It feels like there should be some suitable drawback, likely one that makes evil undead "easier" to use. One thought I had was that maybe the spirits that the undead are infused with are the dead worshipers of this god, and thus it would be cruel to keep them in this undead service for longer than necessary. As soon as their duty is complete, they should be allowed to return to the eternal happiness of the afterlife. While this makes some thematic sense, I'm not sure how to enforce it mechanically. It also feels like it makes it difficult to have undead guardians that watch over a location or treasure for centuries, which might be a cool thing to have.

What would be the best way to have, say, a cleric of a Good-aligned god of death that creates undead with their god's blessing? How would it change the undead creatures you create, and what sort of limitations should it have? Presumably, the god would still want evil undead to be destroyed, so this isn't a blanket pro-undead god.

[Sindal]

Fiction wise

Its important to make sure that 'good undead' is a part of this worlds lore. If there's a good god of undead, people need to want to 'become' a good dead spirit. Otherwise there won't be any.

You could treat them as, say, einhariar used by the valkyrie. When people die, they are asked by some entity if they want to move on or serve one more time for a purpose. Its optional, considered prestigious, even ideal by some if they can protect their families or nations one more time.

If the lore fits, everyone knows about "good" undead and "bad" undead.

Mechanjcally

Good undead could he differentiated in that they are honor or task bound . Instead of just becoming whims to a raiser, good undead are given a task, like "defend this child until he is safe again". The duration lasts until the task is complete, within limits (possibly with the level of spell cast). You cannot raise a good undead 'just because'. They must be given a duty and expire when the duty is done, without any loophole to keep them there as the god of death ushers them on.

Going with the first point, people should be supply to be good undead, though perhaps the raising of good undead takes a little longer. Let's say twice as long as the current spells for argument sake.

Alternatively theres always the option that these undead "raise themselves" which separated themselves from evil spirits who are simply chucked into bodies. The rising of a good undead to carry out a task can be seen as a blessing to families and nations alike. Fallen heros that carry out their swan song. Loving mothers raising to fight off the theif pursuing their child down a street.

"Good" ghosts are normally personal guardians of sorts that ward away things. Almost like having a fairy godparent except hes dead. They move one when their ward no longer needs them.

"Good" zombies are usually used for manual labour and things like agriculture in times of need like droughts. Task done, back to the earth they go. Not mindless

"Good" skeletons are usually what soldiers become to fight. Perhaps not even become skeletons but 'pale people'

Etc

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Lawful Good Elven Liches

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Baelnorn_lich

[Maan]

I think Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind did it right.
In the lore of that game, Dark Elves use sacred necromancy to raise their own dead and protect their ancestral burial sites from defilers. By contrast, they ferociously oppose profane necromancy, outside of that holy duty. The service of temple undead is seen as a great act of generosity and honor done by the deceased, to protect their family even in death.

You could take some inspiration from this and build upon it.
The idea is: denying the dead their rest is evil or at the very least very disrespectful: but someone might volunteer for it while still living, and this is seen by the cult as a very honorable act. This undying defenders could be used in times of need and specific circumstances: it would still be seen as a necessary evil, as you are still disturbing the deserved rest of the dead. So it still wouldn't be done lightheartedly and never for menial tasks.

[Greywander]

Good undead could he differentiated in that they are honor or task bound . Instead of just becoming whims to a raiser, good undead are given a task, like "defend this child until he is safe again". The duration lasts until the task is complete, within limits (possibly with the level of spell cast). You cannot raise a good undead 'just because'. They must be given a duty and expire when the duty is done, without any loophole to keep them there as the god of death ushers them on.

I think Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind did it right.
In the lore of that game, Dark Elves use sacred necromancy to raise their own dead and protect their ancestral burial sites from defilers. By contrast, they ferociously oppose profane necromancy, outside of that holy duty. The service of temple undead is seen as a great act of generosity and honor done by the deceased, to protect their family even in death.
A lot of good points on the lore side. Singling out these bits of your post, I could see this translating mechanically as, "when you cast Animate Dead or Create Undead, you must give your undead a specific duty, and they return to their rest automatically after either that duty is fulfilled or the spell expires (without being recast to renew it)." The "duty" could be highly specific ("Aid us in this battle!") or less specific ("Help us retrieve the artifact from the dungeon."), but it's always something specific. You can never just have an undead horde following you around, they're always on a specific mission and will leave you when it's over, but the trade-off is that you never have to worry about them turning against you. (And maybe they'd be immune to Turn Undead, especially if you're the one using it?)

I like this, I think it sounds like a decent mechanical restriction. I think it also opens up a more RP-heavy usage of these spells, where you charge your undead with some duty and leave them to carry it out. "Defend this village from the orcish hordes while we attack their fortress." "Repair the wall and train the villagers to defend themselves." "Dig a well deep enough to provide the village with water." And so on. Too often, undead minions are treated as little more than combat mooks, though that might be because they're murder machines if left to their own devices. Using them to help NPCs instead of yourself feels like it would be much in line with the tenets of a deity of this sort. Not sure if there should be a further restriction on "frivolous" use of undead, but it's probably better to leave that to roleplay rather than mechanics.


You could take some inspiration from this and build upon it.
The idea is: denying the dead their rest is evil or at the very least very disrespectful: but someone might volunteer for it while still living, and this is seen by the cult as a very honorable act. This undying defenders could be used in times of need and specific circumstances: it would still be seen as a necessary evil, as you are still disturbing the deserved rest of the dead. So it still wouldn't be done lightheartedly and never for menial tasks.
This gives me the idea of a spell that only reanimates the dead when it detects an intruder, thus allowing you to have a guardian who stands watch for long periods of time without being denied rest. They rest while there's no intruders, and only awake when something disturbs them.


Lawful Good Elven Liches

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Baelnorn_lich
This would be another route to getting longstanding guardians. Have a special type of undead wherein the individual agrees to enter into undead service to guard a location or treasure or whatever. Presumably, this wouldn't be done in order to escape death, and they would probably be ready to go to the afterlife the moment a cleric of their god comes and tells them their duty has been fulfilled. I like it.

[MoiMagnus]

There is two ways to reanimate a body:
1) Summon an evil spirit to take control of the body (raise undead), or
2) Permanently call back the dead person from the afterlife (resurrection)

If you want to make "good undead", the first thing you have to chose is if it is
1) Summon a good spirit to take control of the body, or
2) Temporarily call back the dead person from the afterlife.

Even if the spirit is good, the first one is kind of morally ambiguous since you're using the dead body of someone without its prior agreement. Kind of contradictory to the "respect to the dead" things you would expect from a good aligned god of deaths. Unless that's a god of "recycling".

The second one is pretty easy to justify if the god has some authority on the dead person (like it was a follower that sworn allegiance even after death), but become kind of weird if you're reanimating the body of strangers (why would they want to obey you?).

In the end, I have no problem to imagine a good-aligned god of death, and can totally see what kind of rituals a cleric NPC could do to put guardians on a temples or so, however its cleric would probably not be allowed to animate random corpses, which is problematic for a PC cleric. So they'd rather summon spectral fighters of some kind (willing soul wanting to come back to help). This mean treating this undead more as summoned "elementals" that happens to be dead peoples, than reanimated bodies.

[TIPOT]

I think Eberron had good aligned undead with their weird version of high elves. They have a weird ghost council? I'd need to look it up.

[Fynzmirs]

If you decide to animate corpses with actual souls of that god's woshippers, consider giving them the Outsider type. With the notable exception of several 'good' liches, Undead are beings of negative energy, that's their whole deal. On the other hand, there is a demon that controls a dead body while not being undead. Claiming that those 'reanimated soldiers' are actually Outsiders (which kinda makes sense as dead people usually become Outsiders) would allow you to ignore the moral stigma.

[Zetakya]

Think of a fantasy version of Egypt; risen dead as Defenders and Protectors of the tomb-complexes. That sort of angle works.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I think Eberron had good aligned undead with their weird version of high elves. They have a weird ghost council? I'd need to look it up.

See post #3

[follacchioso]

Although technically not a good aligned deity, Wee Jas may give you some inspiration: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?450352-Wee-Jas-the-First-Lich

[JackPhoenix]

I think Eberron had good aligned undead with their weird version of high elves. They have a weird ghost council? I'd need to look it up.

Deathless, in a way, are sort of anti-undead. While they are reanimated elven ancestors, they are powered by positive energy, rather than negative, and sustained by the faith of their people. Even the least of them are intelligent, but they are limited to Aerenal (where there are are Irian manifest zones that provide them with positive energy) and they do require the faith: without their worshippers, the deathless would cease to exist. They have their own creature type (deathless) rather than just being undead even though they share many characteristics, they react differently to Turn Undead (positive turning controls them, negative turning fears them).

At least it was that way in 3.5, 5e just turned them into undead (which makes sense, considering the creature types are less important now) with radiant resistance.


See post #3

Not the same thing.

[Ekzanimus]

First of all, not all undead are created by infusing them with spirit. I'll say that undead beings created that way are in minority. There are many cases when undead aren't "evil" or "good". Zombies or skeletons presented in the Monster Manual and spells like Animate Dead are "evil" for mechanical purposes - they are enemies and unwilling servants who must be repeatedly controlled. But there is a very crucial point - they are also mindless. So if we are taking away there "kill living on sight" mentality they become just meat/bone robots. Who are not evil or good by themselves but only doing what their master ordered.
So if we aren't talking about necromantic methods of creating undead that are inherently "evil" (in our eyes at least) such as dragging screaming souls of the dead back in their decaying bodies or something like this than there is nothing evil in creating undead at all. And then it becomes only a matter of customs of the people of your world - do they view corpses of the dead as something sacred or do they view them as a material for further use? Do they view a matter of becoming immortal undead themselves as an abomination against nature and god's will or as a logical step in preventing the end? If undead is not inherently dangerous for society and may be beneficial for it than this undead can be "good".

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Deathless, in a way, are sort of anti-undead. While they are reanimated elven ancestors, they are powered by positive energy, rather than negative, and sustained by the faith of their people. Even the least of them are intelligent, but they are limited to Aerenal (where there are are Irian manifest zones that provide them with positive energy) and they do require the faith: without their worshippers, the deathless would cease to exist. They have their own creature type (deathless) rather than just being undead even though they share many characteristics, they react differently to Turn Undead (positive turning controls them, negative turning fears them).

At least it was that way in 3.5, 5e just turned them into undead (which makes sense, considering the creature types are less important now) with radiant resistance.



Not the same thing.

Except when it is.

:smallsigh:

[Millstone85]

Lawful Good Elven Liches

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Baelnorn_lichGood lichdom without the elven restriction.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Archlich

[Ekzanimus]

And even in the 5th edition there are good or at least not-evil high undead beings such as liches. They are not different species, just liches, but their motivations and personality are not evil. For example - [mild spoilers for Princes of the Apocalypse ahead] lich Renwick Caradoon in "Princes of the Apocalypse" who just wants to study philosophy and magic and - as is explicitly stated - has not any wish to kill anyone.

[Vogie]

I could see a neutral or good god of death. Some Ideas:

A super lawful god who makes sure the term "consecutive life sentences" is a thing that exists
A Fate bending god who simply refuses to let certain people die until certain times/places, similar to the Morrigan/Chooser of the Slain.
A prideful god who wants their devotees to focus all time on worship, and in turn, raises the dead believers to replace all of the believer's labor (similar to the Amonkhet mummies)
A bloodline-focused god who allows/encourages the spirits of ancestors to aid individuals, similar to the Ancestral Oracles of PF, or locations, such as the Kin-Trees of the Abzan in the MtG Tarkir setting.

[Samayu]

Your society believes that reanimating your corpse with your spirit is simply the next phase of life. The greater your service to your god and your communities, the greater chance there is of this happening. You're confused when you end up in Faerun, and they try to kill you for being an abomination. "But I am of the Second People! I am revered by the living!"

[Lunali]

Do you want a good aligned god of death, good aligned undead, or both? If both, are the undead in service of the god or in opposition? Typically gods of death are rather anti-undead as they are essentially the opposite of what the god represents.

[Chaosmancer]

Lot of good ideas here, but I thought I'd throw just an extra bit out there.

Think about what you mean by the afterlife here. In most DnD worlds you go to a "divine realm" and vaguely unspecified "good things" await the person. But, does that have to be the case?

In my homebrew world, the Gnomes left a horrible plane of existence full of dreariness and despair and found this world, full of light and mysteries to uncover. For them, the Prime plane is a heaven, so, when they die, they actually stay in the world to an extent. Joining a "spirit river" of sorts that I named (three years and no one cares) and remain part of the world.

So, maybe that is actually part of the belief system at play. The God takes spirits of those without bodies and holds them until they can have some physical form again. Working as temple guards, farmers, construction workers, ect. The goal is to enter the world again, to stay a part of it. Maybe until some undefined time when their souls are used for something else in the grand cosmic design. They want to remain useful to their loved ones and community.


Now, I would add that if you lose control of them, they fall apart, returning to earth and dust. The reason is that the undead turning feral actually is an important balance portion. If you could turn an entire graveyard into an undying task force with no risk and no additional maintenance, then the spell becomes far more powerful than it should be. So, when you lose control of the "good undead" they begin deteriorating, maybe lasting only an hour after the control is lost. Maybe this is even why "evil undead" attack the living, if they can consume enough life essence from mortal beings, then they can maintain their existence without crumbling away and losing access to the world again.

[Droodicus]

Mechanically I like them requiring a set task upon raising and expiring upon completion. I'd also add in a small chance of the spell failing. Though I'd be nice and refund the spell slot. Seems like a good trade off for them never turning on you and not needing to constantly supervise then.

[MaxWilson]

What would be the best way to have, say, a cleric of a Good-aligned god of death that creates undead with their god's blessing? How would it change the undead creatures you create, and what sort of limitations should it have? Presumably, the god would still want evil undead to be destroyed, so this isn't a blanket pro-undead god.

I'd probably tie it to some kind of Inca-inspired ancestor veneration, where the undead are basically your own honored dead doing you a favor by coming back from their afterlife to deal with mortal problems, and in return the living own them respect and maybe huge stipends or something.

Look at the Nazca faction in Dominions 5 for a really great example of this (IMO): https://youtu.be/M8xCSkuqZvM?t=274. Ignore the game statistics and pay more attention to the unit descriptions and national fluff text.

[Pex]

In my world's creation myth, 19 Beings wanted the position of gods but only 18 were available. One volunteered to relinquish his claim on the condition he be granted one, and only one, portfolio that is his alone to do with as he pleases. As he was a benevolent Being the others agreed. The kind ones were grateful for the sacrifice. The nasty ones figured he'd take something they didn't want anyway. The portfolio he chose was Undead.

The world was saved from the ravages of undead, and the nasty gods were robbed of a potent weapon. Undead do exist in the world. The Animate and Create Undead spells exist. A deity granted a portfolio doesn't mean others can't use it. The god of magic can't forbid magic to those who don't worship him. However, because this Being controls Undead he is the true master. By his actions no one can raise an undead army. The most gruesome evil undead do not, cannot exist. By this I mean any that would appear in a second or further Monster Manual. The standard common undead of the game - zombies, ghouls, wraiths, can exist but few in number. He can interfere and purposely prevent someone from becoming a Lich.

The Master of Undead, becoming the first Lich, is amassing his own undead army as a back up to save the world from the Campaign Plot Mcguffin if the party fails. For example, when a vampire creates spawn but the vampire is killed, the spawn become free willed. The Master of Undead finds these vampires and offers them a chance to regain their humanity so to speak by using their new status to improve the world. Ghosts are recruited by fixing the tragedies that caused them and can now spread joy instead of misery. Wights keep/regain their consciousness to become agents of the Master to go where needed and do things that need to be done. Spellcasters who learn of him and follow him can become Disciples - good liches, to further his aims. He doesn't want to conquer the world. He saves it from those who do.

[Sparky McDibben]

.What would be the best way to have, say, a cleric of a Good-aligned god of death that creates undead with their god's blessing? How would it change the undead creatures you create, and what sort of limitations should it have? Presumably, the god would still want evil undead to be destroyed, so this isn't a blanket pro-undead god.

I'm not trying to crap on your premise, but this raises (sorry) some hilarious adventure hooks:

A zombie stalking towards an old woman across the street from the church...because it wants to help her cross the street.

A town is worried about a necromancer. Normally he visits once a month and has his skeletons do repair work around the town, but he hasn't been seen yet. Would the PC's mind tracking him down?

Dwarves are rioting after a mining company replaced some of their jobs with undead in an effort to comply with royal safety standards.

[HappyDaze]

There are also the "not-quite-undead" forms of mindless zombies and skeletons. These are just preserved corpses (usually preserved by magic, but possibly otherwise) animated as objects. They are thus constructs rather than undead, but they can fill much the same role as mindless undead.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm not trying to crap on your premise, but this raises (sorry) some hilarious adventure hooks:

A zombie stalking towards an old woman across the street from the church...because it wants to help her cross the street.

A town is worried about a necromancer. Normally he visits once a month and has his skeletons do repair work around the town, but he hasn't been seen yet. Would the PC's mind tracking him down?

Dwarves are rioting after a mining company replaced some of their jobs with undead in an effort to comply with royal safety standards.

Reminds me of a quest where we had to deal with a necromancer and his army of undead. Not because he was necromancer with an army of undead or anything, but because he wasn't paying his taxes.

Only two certainties in life are death and taxes, and power over the former doesn't make you extempt from the later.

[Sindal]

I'm not trying to crap on your premise, but this raises (sorry) some hilarious adventure hooks:

A zombie stalking towards an old woman across the street from the church...because it wants to help her cross the street.

A town is worried about a necromancer. Normally he visits once a month and has his skeletons do repair work around the town, but he hasn't been seen yet. Would the PC's mind tracking him down?

Dwarves are rioting after a mining company replaced some of their jobs with undead in an effort to comply with royal safety standards.

Amusing to think but I sont see it. I'd imagine that the law around these undead prohibits them from being raised if they intrude on the natural order or things.

Not so lawful good if they are driving people to poverty and lack of work. I imagine they would be raised "when the dwarves aren't able to mine anymore" with the command "help your dwarven brethren in the mines once more in this time of ore crisis"

In other news, a long island Jewish mother comparing their kids to the good spirits
"Why cant you be more like that nice spirit boys from the market. Everyday when I get my herbs from the market, one of them is always there to carry the basket home for me. And all of them are so noice and polite and you dont see them back chatting me. Maybe I'll start calling them son instead of yew eh?"

[Spore]

If I would insert good aligned undead in my setting, I would go to a length to make them easily differentiated from other evil undead. I would create a spell similar to Gentle Repose.

0) Its effect are permanent, unless the undead is destroyed. It would be a longer ritual rather than a short spell (mostly due to showing respect to the deceased).
1) The dead body is preserved in pristine condition.
2) The spell checks if the target's soul has departed to the afterlife (sorry, no sentient undead here).

Maybe make their skin bleach-white, maybe make the sigil of the good god of death appear on its body on a prominent place (chest, forehead).

[47Ace]

Fiction wise

Its important to make sure that 'good undead' is a part of this worlds lore. If there's a good god of undead, people need to want to 'become' a good dead spirit. Otherwise there won't be any.

You could treat them as, say, einhariar used by the valkyrie. When people die, they are asked by some entity if they want to move on or serve one more time for a purpose. Its optional, considered prestigious, even ideal by some if they can protect their families or nations one more time.

If the lore fits, everyone knows about "good" undead and "bad" undead.

Mechanjcally

Good undead could he differentiated in that they are honor or task bound . Instead of just becoming whims to a raiser, good undead are given a task, like "defend this child until he is safe again". The duration lasts until the task is complete, within limits (possibly with the level of spell cast). You cannot raise a good undead 'just because'. They must be given a duty and expire when the duty is done, without any loophole to keep them there as the god of death ushers them on.

Going with the first point, people should be supply to be good undead, though perhaps the raising of good undead takes a little longer. Let's say twice as long as the current spells for argument sake.

Alternatively theres always the option that these undead "raise themselves" which separated themselves from evil spirits who are simply chucked into bodies. The rising of a good undead to carry out a task can be seen as a blessing to families and nations alike. Fallen heros that carry out their swan song. Loving mothers raising to fight off the theif pursuing their child down a street.

"Good" ghosts are normally personal guardians of sorts that ward away things. Almost like having a fairy godparent except hes dead. They move one when their ward no longer needs them.

"Good" zombies are usually used for manual labour and things like agriculture in times of need like droughts. Task done, back to the earth they go. Not mindless

"Good" skeletons are usually what soldiers become to fight. Perhaps not even become skeletons but 'pale people'

Etc

That's just a bunch of fantastic ideas, well done.

[Man_Over_Game]

Kobold Press, for Pathfinder, made these..."White Necromancers", I think, that used Positive Energy instead of the usual Negative Energy. They were healers, and basically treated Undead with respect and asked for help. It was the "good guy" way of being a necromancer, and had ways of purifying Negative Energy to convert Undead into being on your side. It didn't compel Undead to help you at all, but any Undead that just had their shackles removed would gladly help you get rid of their slavers, and most treated you with enough respect as a White Necromancer to help you anyway.


Anyway, worth a read if it's your schtick.

Otherwise, I'd say that the Amonkhet MTG world has a lot of what you're looking for in "non-evil undead". There was even an article on the WotC site to use the world for your DnD sessions.

[Misterwhisper]

How about this for an idea:

In a world where the god of death is good aligned, bodies are just vessels for the soul.

It would take tremendous necromancy dark magic to possess another body and displace the tethered soul but it can be done.

If someone was considered to be holy or greatly respected they can place the soul of that person in the body of someone recently deceased. While not 100% alive, it is considered an honor to be one of the Arisen.

Destruction of the body is considered very disrespectful because it can no longer be a vessel.

It is also considered a great honor to have your body be selected as the vessel of a great hero or leader. Also, because of how their souls travel, death is not looked at with such a negative light.

Reincarnation is extremely common, only those who are evil are not reincarnated, not without dark magic anyway.

Many people are born with snippets of memories of other people’s lives they have inherited over the multiple lives of their past.

[47Ace]

How about this for an idea:

In a world where the god of death is good aligned, bodies are just vessels for the soul.

It would take tremendous necromancy dark magic to possess another body and displace the tethered soul but it can be done.

If someone was considered to be holy or greatly respected they can place the soul of that person in the body of someone recently deceased. While not 100% alive, it is considered an honor to be one of the Arisen.

Destruction of the body is considered very disrespectful because it can no longer be a vessel.

It is also considered a great honor to have your body be selected as the vessel of a great hero or leader. Also, because of how their souls travel, death is not looked at with such a negative light.

Reincarnation is extremely common, only those who are evil are not reincarnated, not without dark magic anyway.

Many people are born with snippets of memories of other people’s lives they have inherited over the multiple lives of their past.

Sounds cool and a setting I would be interested in.

[Zarrgon]

There is no problem with making good undead. An obvious way to do it is to simply have a willing target. Where a worshiper agrees to be turned into an undead, often for a set reason. This would be an obvious option for an old, sick or weak person: be turned to an undead to help out and do something.

The basic idea that undead are evil comes from the idea that it's wrong to use or ''violate" a dead body, but not every society and philosophy thinks that way: some see a dead body as ''nothing".

Also a good religion might use undeath as a punishment. So a criminal or one that blasphemy against the religion not only gets Death, but Undeath, and Eternal Servitude. It's beyond harsh, but possible.

D&D mythology is full of good death gods: Kelemvore,

Anubis

Jergal, the Scribe of the Dead

Osiris of the Mulhorandi pantheon

Urogalan of the Halfling Pantheon

Naralis Analor of the Elven Pantheon

Sehanine Moonbow of the Elven Pantheon

Dumathoin of the Dwarven Pantheon

Valkauna of the Dwarven Pantheon

Segojan Earthcaller of the Gnomish Pantheon

Hades in Greek mythology would be considered lawful neutral, I think (aside from that one little blip of kidnapping Persephone).

He's actually less evil than 95% of the Greek pantheon, probably.

Hel from Norse myth isn't really evil either. More grumpy/dour, and stuck with a job she doesn't want because she comes from a family of ne'er-do-wells.

[HappyDaze]

Hades in Greek mythology would be considered lawful neutral, I think (aside from that one little blip of kidnapping Persephone).

He's actually less evil than 95% of the Greek pantheon, probably.


Yeah, the Greek deities don't really map all that well to Good/Evil by modern standards. They have a lot of rape and murder among them, so kidnapping ends up seeming like the lesser of their evils.

[Addaran]

There's a youtube channel called AllthingsDnD, the four video The Grey Necromancer: Astoshan's Tales have really good exemples about undead being used for good (and neutral), some good undead and a goddess of love and death. I'm sure it will give good ideas.

(The story comes from dndgreentext on reddit if you don't like listenning to it. But i could only find the first video's source)

[Chaosmancer]

Yeah, the Greek deities don't really map all that well to Good/Evil by modern standards. They have a lot of rape and murder among them, so kidnapping ends up seeming like the lesser of their evils.

I think a bigger part of the reasoning is that Hades doesn't mess with mortals. There is a single account of him smiting some mortals, and they were sneaking into his home to kidnap his wife.

That's it, other than that and kidnapping Persephone (which, has some historical context I've been told. I guess kidnapping your wife was at least a thing that happened, even if it wasn't super common or expected) Hades does nothing except his job. Keep the dead in the ground and not bothering the living. He's a really chill guy compared to his siblings who are constantly squabbling, fighting, raping, ect.