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Trustypeaches
2020-03-20, 01:03 PM
Heya!

I am rolling up a new character for a "monster-folk" campaign and am considering a Kobold Rogue, with a possible multiclass into Bladesinger Wizard. The character would be a scavenging inventor, flavoring their spells as makeshift or improvised "gadgets" (A flask of oil for grease, or a smoke bomb for Fog Cloud). For reference, the Kobold race I'm using is from Migard Heroes, and is slightly different than the official Kobold.

I'd be starting at level 5 with the following rolled stats: 11, 12, 14, 14, 16, 16

So I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to dip Wizard for 2-3 levels before continuing with Rogue progression, and if I did so, whether I should go Arcane Trickster or Swashbuckler.


Option A: Arcane Trickster 5 /w Mobile
This is the simplest option, and the one that would likely deal the most damage.


Pros:

[*=1]Able to get a Feat or Max out Dexterity
[*=1]Preserved Sneak Attack progression
[*=1]Able to pull off Booming Blade shenanigans far more easily with extra movement and free disengage-lite from Mobile
[*=1]Uncanny Dodge for a reliable tanking reaction


Cons:

[*=1]Far, far more limited spellcasting
[*=1]Gets 2nd level spells in 2 levels, rather than 1 (compared to the below build)
[*=1]More limited utility
[*=1]Frailer


Option B: Arcane Trickster 3 / Bladesinger Wizard 2
This spread would exchange damage output for substantially better survivability and utility, I think.


Pros:

[*=1]A lot more spellcasting, with the spell slots of a 3rd level spellcaster.
[*=1]Much higher AC, with Mage Armor, Bladesong, and Shield
[*=1]Much more cantrip flexibility, able to get everything I want (both SCAG cantrips, minor illusion, message, mold earth, mage hang)
[*=1]With another wizard level, I can get 2nd level spells: misty step, shadow blade, mirror image, or other spells I can copy into my book.


Cons:

[*=1]Losing 2-3 levels of Sneak Attack die progression
[*=1]Not having a feat / ASI at the start
[*=1]Harder to pull of Booming Blade's rider without extra movement or a free disengage.


Option C: Swashbuckler 3 / Bladesinger Wizard 2
This is identical to the previous build, but with no joint spell progression and less spell options in general. The main benefit is being able to pull off Sneak Attack + Booming Blade and it's rider far more consistently, since I can target isolated enemies without sacrificing my Sneak Attack.


Anyone have any input, or experience playing with Arcane Trickster or Arcane Trickster / Wizard multiclasses? Do you think it's better to invest into abusing Booming Blade, or is the utility of low level Wizard spells and Bladesong enough to offset the loss in overall damage?

Edit: Artificer is unfortunately off the table for this campaign.

Man_Over_Game
2020-03-20, 01:19 PM
I think the main question is, are you a problem solver or a combat caster?

There's a big difference there, and how you invest in your resources plays a big part into what role you fill. Bladesingers are almost entirely combat-oriented when compared to the Divination Wizard. Arcane Tricksters are much more RP-inclined than, say, the Scout.

There aren't too many "wrong" ways of building the Arcane Trickster, there are only wrong ways to build the way you want to play.

A would make you a better ranged attacker, and would be the most consistent.
B would make you better at solving problems out of combat, and gives you a bit of tankiness.
C would make you the best melee combatant out of the three. Useful if you don't expect many allies on the front line.

nickl_2000
2020-03-20, 01:50 PM
Just throwing it out there, but why not artificer?

Your description really screams Artificer to me.

Trustypeaches
2020-03-20, 02:09 PM
Just throwing it out there, but why not artificer?

Your description really screams Artificer to me.
Unfortunately, Artificer is off the table for this campaign.

Trustypeaches
2020-03-21, 11:52 AM
A would make you a better ranged attacker, and would be the most consistent.
B would make you better at solving problems out of combat, and gives you a bit of tankiness.
C would make you the best melee combatant out of the three. Useful if you don't expect many allies on the front line.
Since Kobolds have Pack Tactics, I will probably be going melee instead of ranged. That's why I was considering the wizard dip for all the survivability tools (Mage Armor, Shield, Bladesong, etc.)

bendking
2020-03-21, 01:07 PM
I think the best possible mix of AT and BS is AT 4 --> BS 6 --> AT 9 --> BS 11.
This is both because you don't miss out on any feats early on and because BS 6 is very important for the extra attack.
If you just want a BS dip, I would recommend waiting until either level 4, or even until level 10, to get the powerful 9th level feature of AT and the extra ASI at the 10th level.

da newt
2020-03-21, 02:03 PM
The cheapest way to get a free disengage, extra movement, and a way to all but guaranty pack tactics is to buy a donkey / mule. Wield a scimitar or shortsword as your primary weapon, if you miss with your attack you can always draw a dagger and try again to all but ensure you get your SA every round, and the mount takes the disengage action so you move away freely. Donkeys are so cheap they are a consumable item, you might even want to get a couple extra.

Yeah its a weird solution and the thematics are wrong, but mechanically a donkey gives you almost everything Swashbuckler does, alowing you go go buck wild w/ spells and slots.

Lyracian
2020-03-21, 02:43 PM
I think I would take option A and drop the Wizard levels in later.

Vogie
2020-03-21, 06:16 PM
I'd offer something slightly different that will do effectively the same things 2.5 different ways.

Arcane Trickster 3 / War Wizard 2

Offers 2nd level spells, mini-alert with +Int to Initiative, can dump both Str and Charisma, gains ritual casting, and allows you a mini-shield as a reaction (that doesn't cost spell slots!) while also adding the option for a mini-evasion. Since your modus operendi is going to be using Cantrips like BB & GFB anyway, the "downside" of Arcane Deflection isn't really a factor here.

OR

Rogue 2 / Pact of the Chain Warlock 3 / Swashbuckler Rogue X

Offers 2nd level spells, mini-alert with +Cha to Initiative, can dump both Str and int, makes you less reliant on short rests, and you get the Versatile Trickster Feature from the get-go, using an invisible 'lock familiar instead of an invisible mage hand. Also provides some free spellcasting/utility via invocations. You don't particularly need the mobile feat due to Fancy Footwork

Ogeeogelthorpe
2020-03-21, 08:43 PM
I try to show people this guide (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?549828-Magique-Filou-The-Arcane-Trickster-s-Guide&highlight=magique) when they ask questions about arcane trickster or bladesinger. It's pretty thorough when looking at early and endgame builds.