Best way to do a shield-less cleric?

[Greywander]

As I'm not currently in a gaming group, I sometimes scratch that itch by coming up with new character concepts. In this case, though, I'm running into some conflict between the concept and the mechanical execution. Cleric seems to be the best fit class, but the concept is more white mage/priestess and less holy warrior/vampire hunter. Specifically, the initial concept was one that didn't wear armor or use a shield. I know the cleric has long been a staple of D&D, but I still find it a little odd just how martially oriented they are. Depending on your domain or build, there's not a lot of difference between a 1st level fighter and a 1st level cleric (while a 1st level wizard or sorcerer is very different). That said, it does make tactical sense; the healer/support caster needs to be fairly resilient, if they go down then the rest of the party is surely soon to follow. So it makes sense mechanically that they would get medium armor and shields.

For armor, I've gradually worked the concept around to accepting that it makes sense for any adventurer to have a chain shirt or breastplate under their regular clothing (holy vestments, in this case). However, one possibility I considered was trading my armor proficiencies for Unarmored Defense (probably the monk's version). However, I feel like this is still strictly weaker than just wearing medium armor and using a shield, and doesn't allow for the benefits of magic armor (Bracers of Defense would work, but require attunement). I could also dip one level into monk, but that would delay my cleric progression while still giving me inferior AC to a breastplate + shield (not to mention magical armor and shields). Also, Mage Armor, but that's still worse than medium armor + shield. I would really need to invest in DEX to make any of these viable, and I don't think I'd have enough ASIs to do so.

What I'm still struggling with is the shield. In this specific case, I was thinking of going Grave domain, which means Potent Spellcasting, which means I'd be relying on cantrips for damage. Thus the optimal loadout would be a shield in one hand and the other hand empty for spellcasting (for somatic-only spells). As I mentioned, though, the archetype I'm going for isn't one that typically uses a shield. Furthermore, for the holy symbol I wanted to use a staff with chimes or bells on the end of it, sort of similar to a khakkhara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khakkhara). First of all, the staff isn't a valid holy symbol, though I imagine most DMs would let that slide since this build isn't optimized for melee weapons and it fits thematically. Even so, the AC bonus of a shield is hard to give up, especially if I'm getting nothing in return.

One option that would work really well (at least initially) would be to refluff a shield as the staff. It's still a holy symbol, it still gives an AC bonus, it counts as an improvised weapon, it actually all works pretty well. Where this runs into problems is when we start getting magical gear. Or if I lose the staff and need to replace it. If, say, we find a shield +1, I can't just turn it into a staff. If we do get a magic staff, then perhaps I could attach chimes to it to make it a holy symbol, but it would still be a staff, not a shield. One way to make this concept work might be to allow me to craft chimes for the cost of a shield, and attach them to any staff, turning it into an improvised weapon that grants an AC bonus like a shield. A magical staff would convert the bonus to attack rolls into a bonus to AC.

Another option would be to see if I could trade away shield proficiency for something else of value. Perhaps a cantrip. If I still want a defensive buff, maybe I could get a version of Defensive Duelist that works with holy symbols instead of finesse weapons. I feel like I'd probably miss the extra AC of a shield, though.

What are some other ways to make the idea work?

[Makorel]

My first question is what made you rule out Divine Soul Sorcerer or Celestial Warlock for white mage style character?

As to a shieldless Cleric, I would say that if you don't have optimal defense then range is your friend. Light Cleric has a fair amount of good ranged spells, and I think there was some War Cleric Archer that was floating around these forums.

[Greywander]

My first question is what made you rule out Divine Soul Sorcerer or Celestial Warlock for white mage style character?
Funnily enough, it started as a Divine Soul sorcerer, but I quickly decided that Grave cleric was a better fit for the concept I wanted. Turn Undead and the 1st level Grave domain features seemed to fit very well, and having flexibility in spell preparation is nice, too. But maybe it would make sense to go Grave cleric 2/Divine Soul sorcerer X. I think my problem with Divine Soul was that it felt too generic, but a dip in cleric might address that. And actually, things like Twinned Spell could make me really useful as a support caster.

However, if I dip cleric, it's still optimal for me to wear medium armor (which is fine) and use a shield. In fact, it's optimal for me to use a shield with my holy symbol and an arcane focus (which doesn't actually need to be held in my hand).


As to a shieldless Cleric, I would say that if you don't have optimal defense then range is your friend. Light Cleric has a fair amount of good ranged spells, and I think there was some War Cleric Archer that was floating around these forums.
Grave domain doesn't seem to get decent domain spells, but some of the cleric staples might work fine. Guiding Bolt, Flame Strike, and damage cantrips would probably work well enough, and I can also focus on healing or support spells. The main issue is that the powergamer in me balks at the idea of deliberately not using one of my benefits. If I'm going to give up using a shield, I want to at least get something in return to balance it out.

I like the idea of crafting chimes and adding them to a staff (which converts the staff into a shield, mechanically). This would obviously be up to DM approval, but I think it presents a workable solution that is neither too weak nor too strong. The only potential issue might be that a staff +1/+2/+3 is a lower rarity than a shield +1/+2/+3, and thus probably easier to find, though the DM is the one that decides when to hand out loot.

Trading shield proficiency out for something else would also be an option. I just don't want to have it but not use it. It would be like playing a character who isn't blind, but always wears a blindfold. It's one thing to not be fully optimized, but typically a suboptimal choice is at least getting you something thematic or flavorful instead. Choosing not to use something you already have gets you nothing.

Returning back to the original topic, I suppose the main point is that I typically don't envision priests as using shields. So it might make the most sense to give them something else instead of shield proficiency. What would be considered a fair trade for giving up shield proficiency?

[Zetakya]

It seems to me that what you really want here is a high-DEX Cleric and take the Defensive Duelist feat for the reaction bonus to AC.

[Greywander]

It seems to me that what you really want here is a high-DEX Cleric and take the Defensive Duelist feat for the reaction bonus to AC.
This would eat four of my five ASIs. Even if I play a race with a DEX bump, I'm still burning three ASIs. Defensive Duelist aside, I'd be wasting two or three ASIs to get inferior AC to a breastplate and shield, and could still grab Defensive Duelist if I wanted to. I'm also looking primarily at a caster, so DEX weapons aren't necessary, either. This was why I gave up on the Unarmored Defense angle, because even if you maxed out DEX it still came out worse and it used up a bunch of your ASIs.

I'm fine with medium armor now, though I still think it's a bit odd thematically if you're going for more of a regular priest rather than a battle priest, especially when the paladin exists as a more martial type of priest. It's mostly the shield I'm trying to figure out. It seems like I have a couple of options so far:

Cave and use a shield anyway.
Get the DM's permission to refluff a shield as something else, so I can gain the mechanical benefit without the aesthetics.
Trade shield proficiency away in exchange for something else (such as a cantrip).
Just don't use a shield.
Play a Divine Soul instead, so I don't have shield proficiency in the first place.

[kazaryu]

This would eat four of my five ASIs. Even if I play a race with a DEX bump, I'm still burning three ASIs. Defensive Duelist aside, I'd be wasting two or three ASIs to get inferior AC to a breastplate and shield, and could still grab Defensive Duelist if I wanted to. I'm also looking primarily at a caster, so DEX weapons aren't necessary, either. This was why I gave up on the Unarmored Defense angle, because even if you maxed out DEX it still came out worse and it used up a bunch of your ASIs.

I'm fine with medium armor now, though I still think it's a bit odd thematically if you're going for more of a regular priest rather than a battle priest, especially when the paladin exists as a more martial type of priest. It's mostly the shield I'm trying to figure out. It seems like I have a couple of options so far:

Cave and use a shield anyway.
Get the DM's permission to refluff a shield as something else, so I can gain the mechanical benefit without the aesthetics.
Trade shield proficiency away in exchange for something else (such as a cantrip).
Just don't use a shield.
Play a Divine Soul instead, so I don't have shield proficiency in the first place.


so, speaking as a person that sometimes runs into such conflicts (for example, trying to play a rogue as anything thats not a criminal...but you still know thieves cant) i can certainly empathize with this conundrum. unfortunately, i don't think you're going to find a perfect answer. clerics have shield proficiency. of course, that doesn't mean you have to use a shield.

one possibility is on the narrative side? perhaps your particular god simply cannot stand a 2-d symbol. as such you *can't* use a painted shield for your holy symbol.

another possible solution is the one you alluded to: reflavoring. you don't carry a shield, you carry a censer. which, while held and lit (requires an action to light-i.e. action to equip the shield), magically grants you a +2 to AC. obviously you're familiar with how reflavoring works. same mechanics, different aesthetics. the only mechanical place that this might run into trouble is if he wants to 'sunder' your shield. but thats not really a thing in 5e so.....

in fact you could do something similar with your vestments.

[Chad.e.clark]

Tortle cleric? Flat AC of 17, Shield completely optional. If you are playing a Grave Cleric out of Xanathar's, for AL purposes Xanathar's Guide includes "The Tortle Package". So ecen if it a homebrew game, shouldnt be too hard to talk your DM into it: if its balanced for Adventure League, its balanced for non- AL.

But +1 to the idea of Divine Soul sorcerer. Twinning certain buffs and twinning certain attacks (twin guiding bolt, twin Toll the Dead) can put out alot of damage. Twin healing word for when things get dicey and multliple allies are making death saving throws at low levels.

[Chronic]

Your vision of the cleric class is actually less logical than the one d&d book describe (which is fine, nothing wrong with having a different vision). When you think of it there is a reason cleric are called cleric and not priest, it's because they more than likely aren't. Cleric just mean that they are part of religious organisation. Priest are cleric, but not all cleric are priest. And considering a priest in robe would be very vulnerable, they don't, they wear armor because their spellcasting isn't affected by it.
On the other hand, for the way you envision your character I would go for something as simple as possible, reskining. Your shield looks like a holy staff but act as a shield, your armor maybe medium, but it looks like heavy clerical robes. For item progression, simply get your DM on board, he'll find a way to explain it from a roleplay perspective.

[da newt]

Mechanically shields are superior at increasing AC efficiently. There is no getting around that.

This means your AC will be a little lower - you can change your play style to be less in the front lines, and you'll be fine, but a lower AC does decrease the awesomeness of SPIRIT GUARDIANS and DODGE right in the middle of the fracas.

Other stuff:
Dip 1 lvl fighter for DEF FS (+1 AC) and 2nd wind
Magical stuff: Robe / Ring of Protection, Staff of Defense (AL item), etc
1 lvl dip into any class w/ SHIELD spell (will slow down your spells known, but not your spell slots) - pick the best class/subclass
Cast Shield of Faith

A SCEPTER is a staff that is a holy symbol.

[Skayaq]

in the DMG there is some guidelines for modifying proficiencies for a class, and one of the examples is clerics trading their armor proficiencies to get monk's unarmored defense

[Lyracian]

I would ask the DM if you theme it that the character is walking around with a 3' tall religion icon that just happens to act as a 'shield' in combat due to its size and the fact that opponents keep hitting it instead of you.

If you were a weapon using cleric you could go for using a Warhammer or something two handed which would at least be a reason to not have a shield.

[Biggstick]

in the DMG there is some guidelines for modifying proficiencies for a class, and one of the examples is clerics trading their armor proficiencies to get monk's unarmored defense

I was scrolling through the comments looking for this exact response. What you're referring to is on page 287 of the DMG in the bottom left paragraph.

Simply trading out all armor proficiencies (including the shield proficiency) for a Monk's Unarmored Defense fits this character perfectly. Your PC can sit with a 14 or 16 Dexterity (whatever they're comfortable with) and maximize Wisdom. This will have your character happily hanging out at 17-18 AC once Wisdom is maxed out.

Sure, you have lower AC in general compared to an armored Cleric, but that's just it though. You've chosen to play a Cleric and want to be unarmored. You're not dealing with the occasional difficulties that accompany wearing armor (such as having to remove it or deal with it's weight). While wearing any clothing you want, you're naturally sitting with 1 or so less AC then he armored up Cleric. It's a sacrifice you as a PC made for a cool roleplaying decision.

I can't speak for all DMs, but this feels like a situation in which a DM will likely allow you to adjust/change your character's proficiencies. I know if one of my Players approached me with this request, I'd allow it.

[JNAProductions]

I was scrolling through the comments looking for this exact response. What you're referring to is on page 287 of the DMG in the bottom left paragraph.

Simply trading out all armor proficiencies (including the shield proficiency) for a Monk's Unarmored Defense fits this character perfectly. Your PC can sit with a 14 or 16 Dexterity (whatever they're comfortable with) and maximize Wisdom. This will have your character happily hanging out at 17-18 AC once Wisdom is maxed out.

Sure, you have lower AC in general compared to an armored Cleric, but that's just it though. You've chosen to play a Cleric and want to be unarmored. You're not dealing with the occasional difficulties that accompany wearing armor (such as having to remove it or deal with it's weight). While wearing any clothing you want, you're naturally sitting with 1 or so less AC then he armored up Cleric. It's a sacrifice you as a PC made for a cool roleplaying decision.

I can't speak for all DMs, but this feels like a situation in which a DM will likely allow you to adjust/change your character's proficiencies. I know if one of my Players approached me with this request, I'd allow it.

Yeah, I'd be cool with that as a DM.

[Samayu]

I'm playing a tabaxi grave cleric. 12th level now, and have had 18AC for much of the campaign - breastplate and shield, but recently picked up a +2 breastplate.

If your order prohibits the wearing of armor, and teaches unarmored defense, so you end up with 16 or 17, that doesn't sound bad. If you end up lower than optimal, I don't think your DM can argue you're doing it for powergaming reasons.

[Shadhael]

I personally like the idea of re-skinning your shield as the staff your carry. Would you be able to play up the significance of your staff in your backstory, where it is not merely a straight rod of wood, but a (dormant) artifact belonging to your holy order? A personal gift from a mentor who told you to keep it close and discover its secrets as you were sent out into the world to accomplish your mission? Taking that and working with your DM, in lieu of finding a magic +x shield as part of the loot, the staff and its defensive bonus increases as it becomes more awakened or is blessed by your patron diety for the task you accomplish in their name. Essentially magically apply the bonus from the shield you would have found and bless it onto your staff.

[Derpldorf]

Vhuman Arcane Cleric 1+\ Monk 1. Take Magic Initiate Druid as your Vhuman Feat and select Shellelagh as one of your cantrips.

Your Wis will do basically everything, from your Spellcasting to your AC to your Weapon Attacks, all of which can get quite solid.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

My favorite shieldless cleric is a Trickery Cleric. Boost Dex, Con, and Wis.

You get a ton of defensive spells and some that Clerics normally don't get like blink and mirror image. On top of all that, you get some devious channel divinity features.

Trickery cleric reminds me of Final Fantasy 1 White Mage. White Mage literally gets Blink in FF 1 :p.

Edit: Throw in 13 Cha and grab Actor. On a trickery cleric this combo is stupid good.

You get to play a god, while playing a god.

[Greywander]

(requires an action to light-i.e. action to equip the shield)
D'oh! I knew I was forgetting something. The idea of using a censer that has to be lit as an action to "don" the "shield" is a good one, but I'm not sure what I'd do for a staff with chimes. There's really no thematic reason why I couldn't pick it up and use it as easily as a weapon (i.e. as an object interaction, rather than an action). And like a weapon, there's not much reason I couldn't just drop the staff as a free action, instead of using an action to doff it.


Tortle cleric? Flat AC of 17, Shield completely optional. If you are playing a Grave Cleric out of Xanathar's, for AL purposes Xanathar's Guide includes "The Tortle Package". So ecen if it a homebrew game, shouldnt be too hard to talk your DM into it: if its balanced for Adventure League, its balanced for non- AL.
Tortle would be a great general way of an armorless cleric. AC 17 is equivalent to half-plate with 14 DEX. For the concept I have in mind, aasimar seems to be an almost perfect fit, mechanically, so I'm more or less settled on a race. And yeah, the CHA bump makes aasimar an odd choice for cleric, so maybe...


But +1 to the idea of Divine Soul sorcerer. Twinning certain buffs and twinning certain attacks (twin guiding bolt, twin Toll the Dead) can put out alot of damage. Twin healing word for when things get dicey and multliple allies are making death saving throws at low levels.
I riffed on the Divine Soul for feeling generic, but perhaps spell selection alone might be enough to define a niche. Divine Soul is also a better fit, thematically. The actual concept was a Good-aligned goddess of death who was mortally wounded in a struggle with an evil god, so to save herself she reincarnated as a mortal. Divine Soul is the best thematic fit, because it is literally her innate divine power returning to her. Cleric also works, but instead of deriving power from a god she actually is the god and is just regaining the same power she gives to her own clerics. Naturally, playing a literal god, even a de-powered one, would need to be done with care so as not to overshadow the party or develop a Mary Sue complex. (I recently started watching Konosuba, where one of the characters is also a god, so perhaps that's where I got the idea from.)

I'll take another look at Divine Soul. Maybe the key thing to look for is to make sure I can get a spell loadout I'm happy with, as one of the benefits of cleric is the flexibility in switching out spells (lack of spells known is a common complaint for sorcerers). Sorcerer might give me access to some spells I'd want that I otherwise wouldn't be able to get as a cleric, and a sorcerer would also make better use of that +2 CHA from aasimar. I still feel like a 2 level dip in Grave cleric would go a long way toward supporting the death theme.


Your vision of the cleric class is actually less logical than the one d&d book describe
Well, I did go over why it makes sense for the healer/support caster to be armored up. If you're going adventuring, you'd be wise to wear armor and carry a shield. But there's definitely an aesthetic that exists in fantasy of the "priest" type of character, who is typically a pure caster, i.e. no armor or shield or even a weapon. It doesn't make practical sense, for sure, but that would also apply to any class that isn't wearing armor or using a shield. Adventuring is dangerous.


Mechanically shields are superior at increasing AC efficiently. There is no getting around that.
Indeed. Especially for a caster who only needs one hand for spells, there's really no reason not to be holding a shield in your other hand. This only compounds when you start getting magic shields. You're basically giving up free AC and getting nothing in return. Certain builds might want that hand free, such as archers, GWM users, or grapplers, any of which could be a cleric, but the concept I had in mind is none of those.

As for some of the things you mentioned, I'm not sure I would want to use attunement slots or concentration when I could just use a shield. If, say, I traded away shield proficiency for an extra attunement slot, which could be used for something like Bracers of Defense or a Ring of Protection, then I'd probably do it. But attunement slots are pretty powerful, and I don't see any DM agreeing to that.


A SCEPTER is a staff that is a holy symbol.
Scepters aren't listed as valid holy symbols in the PHB. That said, there's no reason a specific holy order couldn't decide to use a scepter as their holy symbol. I don't really see a DM having a problem with using a staff as a holy symbol, but where they might balk is having it grant an AC bonus like a shield.


in the DMG there is some guidelines for modifying proficiencies for a class, and one of the examples is clerics trading their armor proficiencies to get monk's unarmored defense

I was scrolling through the comments looking for this exact response. What you're referring to is on page 287 of the DMG in the bottom left paragraph.

Simply trading out all armor proficiencies (including the shield proficiency) for a Monk's Unarmored Defense fits this character perfectly. Your PC can sit with a 14 or 16 Dexterity (whatever they're comfortable with) and maximize Wisdom. This will have your character happily hanging out at 17-18 AC once Wisdom is maxed out.
I actually didn't notice this! This is equivalent to half-plate, but without the weight or stealth penalty. In a campaign without magic items, it would be a good trade. Maybe I'm getting too hung up on magic armor and shields. If the DM were generous, I'm sure they could toss me some other kind of bonus to AC to balance out not having magic armor or a magic shield.


I personally like the idea of re-skinning your shield as the staff your carry.
Yeah, I thought this worked pretty well. Crafting chimes for the cost of a shield + holy symbol and attaching them to a staff would essentially convert the staff into a shield mechanically, including converting the bonus to attack and damage rolls into an AC bonus (so a staff +2 would become a shield +2). The only part missing is needing an action to don/doff the staff; there's no reason thematically I couldn't grab or drop it as easily as a weapon.

Overall, trading all armor proficiencies for Unarmored Defense seems like the best option, the only problem being that it doesn't scale with magic items. Remember that armor +3 and shields +3 don't require attunement. Sure, there's no guaranty that we'd find armor or shields +3, but at least they're RAW. I feel like it's generally going to be easier to get armor +3 than it will be to get some kind of homebrew bonus to AC to balance out not being able to use armor +3.

[kazaryu]

D'oh! I knew I was forgetting something. The idea of using a censer that has to be lit as an action to "don" the "shield" is a good one, but I'm not sure what I'd do for a staff with chimes. There's really no thematic reason why I couldn't pick it up and use it as easily as a weapon (i.e. as an object interaction, rather than an action). And like a weapon, there's not much reason I couldn't just drop the staff as a free action, instead of using an action to doff it.


well, if your censer is attached to the staff, then you're all set.

as it stands you don't have to be *wearing* your shield in order to use it for the holy symbol, you literally just need to able to present it. you can pick up, carry and show your shield to people all as the object interaction you get as part of movement. you just don't get the AC bonus unless you spend an action.

so in your case, you have a staff w/chimes that you can pick up and use as a......well, staff. for casting whenever you want. And if you light the attached censer (as an action), then you get an AC bonus.

-costs an action to get the AC bonus
-can be used as a holy symbol for casting
-costs an action to remove the AC bonus

mechanically i don't think there's actually a difference

probably doens't need to be said, but im a bit of a completionist so...a staff with chimes/censer attached is probably not well suited to be thwacking anyone, so it definitely would be an improvised weapon...and using it as such might even break it (which is technically a nerf from a normal shield...although if you don't take shield master, not a major one.)

[Biggstick]

Overall, trading all armor proficiencies for Unarmored Defense seems like the best option, the only problem being that it doesn't scale with magic items. Remember that armor +3 and shields +3 don't require attunement. Sure, there's no guaranty that we'd find armor or shields +3, but at least they're RAW. I feel like it's generally going to be easier to get armor +3 than it will be to get some kind of homebrew bonus to AC to balance out not being able to use armor +3.

+3 Armor, as per the DMG, is Legendary in it's rarity.

+3 Shield, as per the DMG, is Very Rare in it's rarity.

Bracers of Defense and Ring of Protection, as per the DMG, are Rare in their rarity.

Cloak of Protection, as per the DMG, is Uncommon in it's rarity.

It is much more likely that you'll find Bracers of Defense, a Ring of Protection, or a Cloak of Protection compared to a +3 Armor or a +3 Shield. All of these items provide a bonus to AC no matter if you're wearing armor or not. Of course, you will know best what kind of magical items your DM makes available to the party.