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View Full Version : Find Familiar, Pact of the Chain, and Variant Familiars



Segev
2020-03-23, 10:12 AM
This started over in this post (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=24413525&fireglass_rsn=true#post24413525) in the thread on commonly misunderstood rules, but I think it warrants its own discussion so as not to distract from that one.

Mostly recapping the original post here:

The Variant: Familiars rule sidebars don’t mention Find Familiar at all. Any spellcaster can have one of the sidebarred creatures as a familiar if they meet one and convince it (or it offers) to become their familiar. No Find Familiar spell required.

They’re also universally more powerful than either the spell-granted or the Chainlock-granted familiars. They retain all their own actions, potentially share traits not shared via even the Chainlock’s feature (e.g. the Imp’s magic resistance), and share their senses without action required of the master.

Now, they can quit any time, unlike spell-granted or Chainlock familiars, and you can’t dismiss them even temporarily, nor change their forms for the cost of 10 gp and 70 minutes of ritual casting. But they seem like the kind of thing that will make a caster feel like he’s wasted his resources getting a familiar via spell or Pact if these are an option.

Continuing this train of thought, it seems to me that adding a cranium rat and a crawling claw to the standard list of find familiar options is fine and dandy. Neither is particularly powerful, especially with find familiar's clauses regarding attacking (otherwise, the Crawling Claw would be a rare familiar with a not-utterly-useless attack). The Crawling Claw has Blindsight to 10 ft., but the Bat (already on the list) has it to 60 ft. Sure, the bat loses it in regions of magical silence, but that's...not exactly a common occurrence.

Imps, Quasits, and Pseudodragons are all special perks for the Pact of the Chain as "high powered" familiar options. The only other thing the Pact of the Chain gives (without Invocation investment) is the ability to spend your action to give your familiar an attack. The Variant: Familiar options put it on the creature's side of the field, at least in the Monster Manual for each of these three's listed entries. Also for the Gazer in Volo's Guide (a Tiny Beholder with four eye beams). This does mean the DM is basically going to have to give them, much the way he would an intelligent magic item. This also means that if he does, he's making the choice to pick up find familiar - let alone be a Pact of the Chain Warlock - a bit of a foolish one. (It's like giving out Gauntlets of Ogre Power to a party with an 18-strength barbarian. Now the 14-strength fighter is more likely to get the gauntlets, and be technically stronger than the barbarian, when the barbarian is the one who's worked to get the high strength score.)


There are four sidebars in the MM:

Variant: Quasit Familiar, page 63
Variant: Imp Familiar, page 69
Variant: Pseudodragon Familiar, page 254
Variant: Familiars, page 347

The first three are indeed based on the idea of meeting the creature and convincing it to form a bond with you. The last one, however, is about the find familiar spell.
Which once again shows that 5e has way too many different rules for familiars.

It seems to me that the NPCs sidebar is supposed to be for NPCs only, but that is incredibly frustrating to me because it specifically references find familiar. The fact that variant familiars do things like give freebie access to the familiar's senses (rather than costing an action) and give extra special powers (like the Imp's magic resistance) is just further frustration.

I mean, let's say you let find familiar get not just Crawling Claws or Cranium Rats, but Imps, Quasits, Pseudo-Dragons, Sprites, Gazers, or the like. Why bother being a Chainlock? Tomelocks now get everything the Chainlock does, unless you count Invocations (and with the exception of Voice of the Chain Master, most of those are not particularly thematic to Pact of the Chain, and could easily be rewritten to being available to all Warlocks without any special need; Pact of the Chain is just a "tax" for access, not really a necessity). Moreover, any Sorcerer or Wizard or Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster who picks up find familiar can get the cool familiars.

Seriously, amongst the "normal animal" familiars already there are clear "bests" and "worsts." The frog/toad is useless, not even worth the 10 gp for the ritual summoning. It does nothing that other familiar animals don't do better. The owl is probably the best, with the flyby ability, but at least has competition from the raven's mimicry, the bat's blindsight, and the hawk's sheer speed. The snake could theoretically be milked for venom, though you could do that without a familiar if you wanted. So that's not exactly convincing. I can't really see why ANY of the non-flying choices would be picked. Maybe the rat if you have a particularly good use for one as a spy in an area where birds would draw more attention.

Give base find familiar access to pseudodragon or imp? There's no reason to pick the animals.

And that still leaves the "magic item from the DM" version of a familiar as far more powerful overall, with little rhyme or reason other than some RP and a DM wanting to be generous. Which is a problem because, again, it makes the choice to pick up the spell or the Pact a bad one, unless the DM only gives the variant familiar to the one PC who picked that up. Or otherwise restricts it.

I mean, you can say it'd be bad DMing all you want, but imagine a DM who has a Pact of the Chain Warlock in his game, and wants to give out a variant familiar. If he gives it to anybody but the Warlock (which, for RP reasons, could be valid as a choice - the bard or eldritch knight might have hit it off with that Pseudodragon, for instance), the Warlock now has an inferior familiar but invested one of his big choices for the build into it, while the other character didn't invest anything other than "getting a cool intelligent magic item." (I know it's not really a magic item, but characterizing it that way helps qualify the nature of the reward.)

Even if he gives every primary caster in the party a Variant Familiar - maybe the Chainlock hits it off with a Gazer, the Wizard learns the true name of an Imp and coaxes it into his service, and the Bard gets that pseudodragon - the Bard is getting something he couldn't otherwise have gotten at all, the Wizard is getting a massive upgrade over what the spell he put in his spellbook could get him (but still has now wasted money or free spell selection on a spell compared to the Bard who didn't take the spell), and the Chainlock, while getting a cooler familiar than he otherwise could (at the very least, the shared senses thing is better, and the Gazer doesn't require the Warlock's action to use its eye beams), is also the only one who invested a major build option and isn't really getting anything more out of it than the Bard.

Or, if the DM wants to give a Warlock or other caster Variant Familiars as rewards, and he has a Warlock who took a different Pact (Blade is especially egregious since it can't get find familiar at all), he's basically giving them a whole Pact they didn't pick as a "magic item" type reward. Maybe you could argue giving a magic sword to a Bladepact Warlock is similar, but the Bladepact at least has rules for bonding to that magic item and letting the warlock summon it at will (maybe even banish it; I'd have to look that up), leaving at least some unique prowess over that weapon. Plus, they can become proficient with literally any weird magic weapon handed out by bonding it.

I feel like those with find familiar should be able to get more out of a Variant Familiar that befriends them, and those with Pact of the Chain should be able to get still more. This would enable DMs to hand out variant familiars as rewards without making him have to ask himself if he's stepping on hypothetical (or worse, real) ground that invalidates his players' build choices.

Yakk
2020-03-23, 11:04 AM
I have modified the pacts to be bigger myself.

Chain grants your proficiency bonus to attacks, saves, damages, DC, and grants (1HD/+3 HP)/warlock level.
Tome grants spells known instead of just adding to the list from your pact.
Blade grants the extra attack invocation at 5, and lets you use cha to attack (but not damage), and add 1/2 of your charisma to damage with the blade.

In that case, a Variant Familiar would be buffed by my new Chain feature.

Segev
2020-03-23, 11:12 AM
I have modified the pacts to be bigger myself.

Chain grants your proficiency bonus to attacks, saves, damages, DC, and grants (1HD/+3 HP)/warlock level.
Tome grants spells known instead of just adding to the list from your pact.
Blade grants the extra attack invocation at 5, and lets you use cha to attack (but not damage), and add 1/2 of your charisma to damage with the blade.

In that case, a Variant Familiar would be buffed by my new Chain feature.

THat it would. Would you do anything for those with find familiar just as a spell using it in conjunction with a Variant Familiar? Or just treat find familiar as buffed to allow the cooler monsters?

...could make it an upcast, maybe a higher gp cost to call them.

Still makes the "DM-granted intelligent magic item" version step on the spell's toes. Maybe the spell enables them to be resummoned if killed, and that's a perk for the familiar-creature as much as the master. You've befriended this little Imp, and he's taking risks on your behalf, but since you performed the ritual spell to bind him as a familiar, as long as he doesn't quit the link (as is his right under Variant Familiar rules), if he dies, you can perform find familiar again and get that specific Imp back. Along with his Variant Familiar-granted magic resistance and superior sensory link (i.e. no action), and his own ability to spend actions on attacking, etc. ...might also enable banishing them, at which point they share YOUR senses and perhaps are a voice in your head. They can't unbanish themselves without breaking the link.

The caster without find familiar can't do the trick to bring them back, or banish them. The Chainlock still shares his Proficiency bonus and the bonus HD.

...does your proficiency bonus stack with or replace the monster's own in his attack routines?

Yakk
2020-03-23, 11:31 AM
No, find familiar remains find familiar, in my opinion.

Variant Familiars would get a buff if the PC got one.

Having an NPC join the party is different than a class feature, and will often be stronger.

Segev
2020-03-23, 11:37 AM
No, find familiar remains find familiar, in my opinion.

Variant Familiars would get a buff if the PC got one.

Having an NPC join the party is different than a class feature, and will often be stronger.

My issue with it is that it more closely resembles (as I've intimated in my word choice) giving out an intelligent magic item than having an NPC join the party. An NPC isn't necessarily attached to any one PC. He's buffing everyone, or aiding everyone, or otherwise is just another party member. A familiar is one character's "thing."

Greywander
2020-03-24, 08:47 PM
Find Familiar seems to be restricted to beast type creatures, who are then given the celestial, fiend, or fey type by the spell. I could see adding cranium rats, but not the crawling claw (since it isn't a beast). If you expand the list of creatures you can get via Find Familiar, it should mostly be restricted to chainlocks. I'd allow chainlocks to get a gazer, for example.

IIRC, the variant familiar rule says you can have any tiny creature as a familiar. Any tiny creature. Here's a list (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?548701-Unusual-Familiars-(MM-pg-347-variant-familiars)), though there might be new creatures that have been released since then. Also note that that list only goes over monsters, not regular beasts.

As for making a pact with a creature to become your familiar vs. the Find Familiar spell, there are a couple of notable differences that not everyone might be aware of:

The Find Familiar spell only lets you have one familiar from the spell. This restriction doesn't apply to other sources of familiars. If you make a pact with a creature, you can also use Find Familiar to get a second familiar.
A familiar obtained via Find Familiar is a familiar spirit. It is not an imp. It can take the form of an imp (if chainlock), but it is still a familiar spirit, not an imp. If you make a pact with an imp to become your familiar, it remains an imp, which means it is still evil and will try to subvert you. An imp obtained via Find Familiar will not. YMMV depending on your DM.
As has already been noted, a creature who becomes your familiar can leave at any time. They also can't change form via resummoning them, nor can the be revived by casting Find Familiar. These creatures should be treated like a separate character, not a class feature.
A creature you've made a pact with to become your familiar may grant you special benefits, such as Magic Resistance, that you wouldn't get if you summoned it via Find Familiar.

For all of these reasons, making a pact with a creature isn't always superior to the Find Familiar spell (it's a trade-off), nor does it render it obsolete (you can have multiple familiars this way). Honestly, I think this is a bit of an underutilized mechanic, probably because of the Find Familiar spell, and could make for some great RP moments where you have to rescue or appease your familiar creature.

Zetakya
2020-03-24, 10:18 PM
Frankly this is only part of a bigger issue, which is that 5e has a major hate on for pet/minion classes.

Greywander
2020-03-25, 01:23 AM
Frankly this is only part of a bigger issue, which is that 5e has a major hate on for pet/minion classes.
A big part of this is having a shared action economy between the player and their pet. If the pet was able to act freely and independently, it would make them a huge benefit by subverting the normal action economy, but this was probably deemed too strong. Other changes that could be made would be things like adding your proficiency bonus to ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws that the pet makes, as well as adding your level or a multiple of your level to the pet's HP.

Segev
2020-03-25, 11:02 AM
A big part of this is having a shared action economy between the player and their pet. If the pet was able to act freely and independently, it would make them a huge benefit by subverting the normal action economy, but this was probably deemed too strong. Other changes that could be made would be things like adding your proficiency bonus to ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws that the pet makes, as well as adding your level or a multiple of your level to the pet's HP.

It's exactly the action economy thing.

Which always makes me find the fact that druids get animal friendship (http://5e.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalFriendship.htm) as written. It's a 24-hour charm. No, it doesn't do more than make them unable to attack you and give you advantage on charisma checks against them, but a druid can easily have solid mechanisms for working with such creatures and getting them to fight on their side. Not hard to convince a crocodile, wolf, or similar to follow you for some food, and attack that other group of creatures to eat them.

Keravath
2020-03-25, 11:19 AM
I'm not sure I see any big issues.

Variant familiars die. They die VERY easily. Even the imp, the hardiest of the bunch, has 10 hit points and AC13. It's immunity to fire and poison as well as magic resistance makes it much more survivable than any other familiar. However, one cone of cold, a single effective weapon attack (at most two), and almost any other kind of damage, will kill it. Use your imp as a scout, it likely dies if it sets off a trap and its abilities in that department are pretty limited. This gets to be more an more of an issue through tier2 and especially beyond.

If your variant familiar dies, it is gone. It doesn't come back, it is dead or sent back to its home plane with no way to return to you easily.

Are you going to risk your familiar using the help action in combat? Are you going to ask it to attack? (Keep in mind variant familiars can refuse whatever you ask unless you made a deal requiring complete obedience and even then they could decide the risk isn't worth it, especially if you mistreat them). Are you going to ask it to scout ahead and possibly run into that gelatinous cube that no one can see?

On the other hand the spell familiar is restored for the cost of 10gp and 70 minutes if cast as a ritual. It never disobeys, it will do whatever you like, and some of the forms have flyby enabling an easy use of the help action in combat. Some forms are stealthy and can easily be used as scouts, it the familiar is killed it just sends whatever spirit was animating it back home and you summon up another when you have a chance.

I would NOT give any of the special forms to the find familiar spell. It should not be able to duplicate what a pact of the chain warlock can do ... however, I don't really see the competition between a variant familiar/sidekick/mini-NPC and a familiar created by the spell. Your variant familiar buddy is vulnerable to almost everything in this dangerous world and unless you encourage them to keep safe and stay back (i.e. more of a role playing feature than a mechanical advantage) ... they will die and disappear permanently more likely sooner than later.

jmartkdr
2020-03-25, 02:20 PM
Another way of reading the pg 347 sidebar:

As a variant rule, the dm can declare the lists in the spell (and Pact Boon) as non-exhaustive, and simply allow any tiny creature they want to allow.

I wouldn't like that as a variant rule for non-warlocks, but frankly I'd allow quite a bit of other monsters for Chainlocks if it's about the right size and power and fits the patron. Mephits, for example.