Sleight of hander optimization

[daremetoidareyo]

I was invited to make a character for a 5e campaign. So I dug around a bit and made one. Coming from 3.5, it was a bit different.

I wanted to make a thief that could steal almost anything unnoticed. So I optimized almost entirely along those lines, and the backstory just dovetailed in nicely.

Vedalken
(Tireless precision: sleight of hand and forgers kit; adds 1d4 to your skill check)
Fisher
Rogue (thief) 3 expertise with thieves tools and sleight of hand
Cleric (unity) 2 (unity domain add 1d4 to skill checks for an hour when near bonded target)
Guidance (add 1d4 to skill checks)
Rogue the rest of the way.

So at level 5, you have a proficiency bonus of +6, an ability bonus of +2 to +3 depending on rolls/point buy, and between a +1d4 to +3d4 bonus on sleight of hand checks. That's a minimum roll of 10 to a possible max of 20+6+3+3d4(12) =41.

Vedalken is an entirely new race to me. But the description seemed to be at odds with the selection of skills available for tireless precision. So to make a pickpocket of this skill level, I took a radical approach to the character's backstory and personality: he doesn't believe in property rights in any form.

Like a check Palahniuk antagonist level disbelief in property rights. They honestly tie all dysfunction in the world to a belief in property rights. They dig into this belief so hard that they develop a spiritual bent so developed that it becomes their own religious dogma. The unity domain is an elegant choice, as the concept of property, to this character is the anathema of love and solidarity.

I don't know much about vedalken lifecycle, but the amphibious element leads one to infer an egg-in-pond part of the life cycle, which offers a support buttress for this ideology. Paired with successfully living off the land as a Fisher, it's easy to see how a civilization based on environmental destruction could push this character towards radicalizing around the concept of property rights. You only need to permanently destroy a rich fishing grounds for private gain to traumatize him into this belief structure.

I imagine that in combat, I'll be using those cunning surge bonus sleight of hand actions to be robbing vital goods from the opponent or planting dangerous things onto said opponents.

In adventuring, I imagine the forgery checks and rampant targeted theft will open some doors that would otherwise stay closed.

What do y'all think?

[Gamerawsome101]

Cool idea I think magic items there are gloves that give you a bonus I think (if your dm is okay with you having them)

[Biggstick]

Arcane Tricksters are going to be your best route if you're looking to steal from people unnoticed. An invisible Mage Hand from 30' away will likely be much more successful then having to actually sneak up to your opponent. You'll also still be able to use your Bonus Action to manipulate the Mage Hand during combat situations, meaning you can steal from or plant something on someone from 30' away while still using your Action and movement to participate in the combat.

Additionally, sneaking up to an opponent is something you seem to have left out of the actual Sleight of Hand equation. You will need to swap that Expertise in Thieves Tools to Stealth if you want to also not be noticed when you're sneaking up to your target in the first place.

If you're considering Cleric archetypes, I'd suggest 3 levels of Trickery. It provides the ever valuable Pass w/o Trace, which can turn Stealth Expertise on a Rogue into nigh untouchable Stealth roll totals. You can also pick up spells like Enhance Ability, which can give you advantage on all Dexterity checks (Stealth and Sleight of Hand) for the next hour.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Rogue 3 Arcane Trickster / Cleric of Trickery 6 can't be recommended enough.

This gives you...

* Ranged Mage Hand goodness
* Duplicity (perfect illusion) that can give you an alibi or distraction
* Duplicity gives you advantage on attacks if you are both within 5' of the target
* Short rest invisibility for two turns (you have a bonus action to hide)
* Cleric Spells (don't need a high Wis for these to be awesome)
* Wizard Spells (don't need a high Int for these to be awesome)
* Expertise
* Pass W/O Trace
* Touch your ally with heavy armor/low Dex so they can sneak with you
* If you start Cleric before Rogue you get shield Prof.

[daremetoidareyo]

I like the brazen taking things by hand aspect of doing it in person, and cunning surge actions to do it. "You might be bashing my face, but I got this unlabeled potion of yours."

You don't need to be sneaky when you believe you're justified

I see now that I need a higher run speed...

Trickery devotion is cool. I'll consider it

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I like the brazen taking things by hand aspect of doing it in person, and cunning surge actions to do it. "You might be bashing my face, but I got this unlabeled potion of yours."

You don't need to be sneaky when you believe you're justified

I see now that I need a higher run speed...

Trickery devotion is cool. I'll consider it

If you want to be brazen about it...

Half-Orc Trickery Cleric. At 4th level grab Charger. Keep your Wis low, like 12, and use your spells to make yourself beefy. 8th level Prodigy (Sleight of Hand) means you win at stealing.

You could start with a 16 in strength and by 4th level you're looking at 1d6/1d8 + 3 + 5 damage. At level 8 it will be 1d6/1d8 + 1d8 (ask to use UA but poison is acceptable) + 3 + 5. Fun times for a class that isn't made to be melee.

With mirror image, blink, pass without trace, healing, D Door, and Polymorph (allies)... Your Wis doesn't need to be super high.

So, you're charging around like a crazy person, cause you are, while laughing your head off. Eventually you run up to someone and just steal their stuff. If they hit you on their next turn, you always have relentless endurance to keep you afloat.

After racial boosts...
Horc Charlatan Trickery Cleric Level 1

16
14
14
8
12
12

HP: 10

Sleight of Hand, Religion, Insight, Deception, Intimidation

Cantrips: Thaumatagury, Resistance, Guidance

Give an ally (rogue) advantage on stealth and then make yourself the center of attention with an intimidation check. Tell them that you like their stuff and that you're gonna get it. Run up and smash someone in the face with a mace or greatclub.

Bless and Healing spells are your friends.

Once you get 2nd level slots, Mirror Image is your best friend. If they hit you, you can either heal it off or your relentless endurance will save you (RE is once per long rest).

Remember to laugh as you slap something with your mace.

You want to keep talking smack and keep yourself the center of attention, Trickery Domain is more of a Domain of Misdirection than Stealth after all.


Edit: Relentless Endurance, Hellish Rebuke, and Armor of Agatha (I can't recall the spelling so Agatha it is) are all fantastic on a Trickery Cleric... I call it "The Middle Finger of Loki". It takes a lot to actually hit a Trickery Cleric and once they do... Blamo, either they can't kill you in one hit or they get hurt because they hit you... Congratulations butt face, here's some fire/cold damage. Half-Orcs and Tieflings are fun Trickery Clerics. Duplicity gives you advantage to attacks, your crit rate is going to go up nicely.


Edit2: Now that I think about it, Goliath's Stone's Endurance is 1d12 + Con less damage once per short or long rest... This might be better than taking Half-Orc. On average with +2 Con... You're looking at 8 HP per rest you can mitigate (from one hit)... After a few short rests you're looking at a lot of saved HP.

[Chronos]

While I'm a big fan of Arcane Trickster, I should point out that using the mage hand is only a bonus action while you have it already cast. If combat starts unexpectedly while you don't have it cast, and you want to do thievish stuff, you still need to burn an action.

And yes, you could just re-cast it every 30 seconds, all day, every day, since it's a cantrip. But that gets very tedious.