Why isn't mirror of opposition talked about more?

[magicalmagicman]

It's a free infinite Ice Assassin. For 92,000gp it's underpriced. Observe
1. Gate in a creature
2. Have the creature look into the mirror of opposition.
3. Both you and the creature work together to incapacitate the duplicate.
4. Gated creature returns from whence it came
5. Use a wide variety of mind control methods, including Mind Rape, to subjugate the incapacitated duplicate.
6. Once the duplicate recovers, repeat 2-5 infinitely, creating Duplicates of the Duplicates of the Duplicates of the Duplicates.
7. If the mind control is ever undone, all it does is hunt down the original creature, which is NOT you.

and it's in CORE.

and it DUPLICATES ITEMS. Astral Projection abuse anyone?

edit

Additional stuff
Infinite Self Clones
1. Put down a trap in front of the mirror
2. Look into the mirror yourself
3. Traps spring and incapacitate a copy of yourself.
4. Proceed to mind control it.

Elemental Monolith
1. Cast Elemental Monolith
2. Have it look into the mirror.
3. Incapacitate it
4. Elemental Monolith returns from whence it came. Unsummoned is not defeated so duplicate continues to exist.
5. You know the rest.

[Jack_Simth]

Defeat is not the same as kill. Once you complete step 3, the duplicate vanishes.

[Psyren]

Also, while the mirror is core, Mind Rape is not.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Defeat is not the same as kill. Once you complete step 3, the duplicate vanishes.This here is why the link I posted in the other thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?246396-Another-Addition-To-The-Tippyverse) used quintessence to disable the clone. It's defeated instantaneously, but it's also locked in time so it literally doesn't have time to dissipate.

But yeah, it's a really nice item if you use it right.

[magicalmagicman]

Defeat is not the same as kill. Once you complete step 3, the duplicate vanishes.

Been trying a while to rule lawyer this. But d&d does not give a glossary definition of defeat. So a DM is well within his rights to say landing a successful charm monster or lesser geas spell defeats the creature.

Bleh. Got excited for nothing.

[EliDupree]

Well, the only real question here is, how deep do you want to go into exploiting RAW?

If you want to interpret the rules even slightly as intended: Obviously you can't exploit the mirror, and any method that might let you keep the items will cause them to disappear instead.

If you want to go full RAW... Well then, consider the following:

1) The only magical effect on the duplicate's behavior is "This opposite immediately attacks the original." Now, "attack" is a well-defined game term; I suggest that one could fulfill this condition by making a single unarmed strike against the original. In all other respects, the duplicate is an exact duplicate of myself, and I'm generally interested in cooperating with myself, so my duplicate voluntarily cooperates after making a single unarmed strike.

2) Now, the biggest catch is that "the duplicate and all her items disappear completely" whenever either of them is "defeated". Unfortunately, being "defeated" seems very broad; I wouldn't want to rely on items that might disappear whenever I'm defeated in, say, a card game. So we definitely want to cheat the items past this condition, perhaps by making the items cease to be "her items" before they have a chance to disappear. Which isn't very difficult. All my duplicate has to do is voluntarily donate the items to me. Then they're not her items, they're my items.

3) Duplicating items is cool and all, but how about duplicating YOURSELF? Just cast Statue on yourself, then have a friend hold you while they look in the mirror. The copy of the statue can immediately revert back to a creature, and definitely doesn't count as "her items" anymore on account of being a creature rather than an object. Also, you don't actually need a friend, because you can have your first duplicate do it. You get four uses per day, after all!

4) Bonus trick: Hold the mirror while you look into it, so your duplicate spawns with a copy of the mirror, too, to bypass the normal "four uses per day" limit. Then you have two mirrors with - at worst - three uses each. The second time you use it, hold BOTH mirrors while looking in one of them! Then you end up with two mirrors that have two uses, plus two mirrors that have three uses, meaning you come out ahead and can keep repeating the process indefinitely!

[SimonMoon6]

It's still a pretty impressive item used just as intended.

Want to kill a god? Have him look in the mirror. Then you've got a 50% chance that the opposition-god wins. (And even if the original wins, he's probably going to be depleted in hit points and spells.)

Nothing says you can't look in more than one mirror at once. Say you have a party of 5 characters, each with a mirror of opposition. A god looks over at your party and suddenly there are 5 opposition-gods. A god might have a 50% chance to beat himself, but a much lower chance to beat 5 identical copies of himself.

Now of course, there is a fatal flaw with this plan. The mirror has 5 hp and 1 hardness. Six points of damage destroys the mirror and when it is destroyed, so is the duplicate creature. Unless you have a way to protect the mirror(s), (wall of force, for example, since you can see through to see the mirror but can't do damage through the wall), this plan is doomed to failure since almost anybody can deal 6 damage.

Of course, if you use it on some sort of mindless creature (even the epic level ones), this plan is still pretty good since they probably won't think to attack a mirror.

Even so, once you start doing anything useful with the mirror, any decent DM is going to find some way to send 6 damage at it and that's game over.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Now of course, there is a fatal flaw with this plan. The mirror has 5 hp and 1 hardness. Six points of damage destroys the mirror and when it is destroyed, so is the duplicate creature. Unless you have a way to protect the mirror(s), (wall of force, for example, since you can see through to see the mirror but can't do damage through the wall), this plan is doomed to failure since almost anybody can deal 6 damage.This is why you make it out of riverine or aurorum. The first is indestructible by most means. The second just acts like a handful of puzzle pieces you put back together, good as new. Either way, find some way to make it immune to disintegration effects. (Especially nice if it reflects them; nicely fitting).

Also, use a pair of mirrors of opposition to make more mirrors of opposition, and it won't matter if one is destroyed. Or use astral projection and leave the original at home.


4) Bonus trick: Hold the mirror while you look into it, so your duplicate spawns with a copy of the mirror, too, to bypass the normal "four uses per day" limit. Then you have two mirrors with - at worst - three uses each. The second time you use it, hold BOTH mirrors while looking in one of them! Then you end up with two mirrors that have two uses, plus two mirrors that have three uses, meaning you come out ahead and can keep repeating the process indefinitely!Could you hold, say, the eaves of a castle and say it's part of your equipment?

[magicalmagicman]

You can't use the mirror as a weapon because there are no rules to force a creature to look at the mirror. It's not a gaze attack so rules for that don't apply here. And since even gaze attacks fail against an opponent averting their eyes, what chance does a mirror have?

[EliDupree]

Could you hold, say, the eaves of a castle and say it's part of your equipment?

Well, the key question here is whether it's one of the "possessions" of the original. Now, I'm not sure there's an explicit D&D definition of "possessions", but according to the top dictionary definition, it's everything you own. So logically, the duplicate spawns carrying everything you own, whether or not you're holding it at the moment - including, say, your castle (but not an enemy castle). Awkward!

For bonus points, this can also be used to settle property disputes by determining who owns something.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can't use the mirror as a weapon because there are no rules to force a creature to look at the mirror. It's not a gaze attack so rules for that don't apply here. And since even gaze attacks fail against an opponent averting their eyes, what chance does a mirror have?Other mirrors are treated as gaze attacks. I'm not sure why the MoO (Moo?) isn't.


Well, the key question here is whether it's one of the "possessions" of the original. Now, I'm not sure there's an explicit D&D definition of "possessions", but according to the top dictionary definition, it's everything you own. So logically, the duplicate spawns carrying everything you own, whether or not you're holding it at the moment - including, say, your castle (but not an enemy castle). Awkward!

For bonus points, this can also be used to settle property disputes by determining who owns something.Well, possession is 9/10 of the law. Take levels in fiend of possession.

Also, Gilgamesh from FSN considers everything in existence to be his. Does that mean using the mirror on him would create a parallel universe?

(Also, the MoO would make a fantastic noble phantasm in FSN.)

[Psychoalpha]

Also, Gilgamesh from FSN considers everything in existence to be his. Does that mean using the mirror on him would create a parallel universe?

(Also, the MoO would make a fantastic noble phantasm in FSN.)

This might be the best thing I've read all day. ^______________^

[Oberron]

Is there a creature that can't defeat itself or doesn't have the means to do so like a troll without acid/fire? If so give it a bag od holding with items you wanna dupe use mirror. Get bag away from mirror clone.get original bag back. Let them duke it out forever.

Or get a farmer, go to middle of nowhere. give it bag of items to dupe. Use mirror. Grapple items from mirror farmer. Teleport farmer back home. Now mirror farmer has to travel a very long way to get to farmer.

Should give you time to use whatever items you need in that time frame. Also assuming that the mirror version has the same knowledge as the original don't tell the farmer what the bag is or what's in it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is there a creature that can't defeat itself or doesn't have the means to do so like a troll without acid/fire? If so give it a bag od holding with items you wanna dupe use mirror. Get bag away from mirror clone.get original bag back. Let them duke it out forever.The tarrasque, for sure. Extremely heavy on physical defense; not so much on offense or special defenses.

Hmm. I think that granting a shrieker fungus the ability to see would be perfect for this. They literally cannot move or attack at all. Just plant one in a very large, open space, cast darkvision on it, then expose it to the mirror after putting a bag full of equipment on its...err...head. Then watch as the two mushrooms scream at each other but do absolutely nothing else. Might wanna cast a few silence spells around, though. Or maybe (un)hallow tied with a silence effect.

[edit] Huh. Shriekers actually have low-light vision, so they can see just fine. That's one step gone, I guess.

[King of Nowhere]

on the other hand, defeat not implying a duel to the death also means you may get away with surrendering. escaping, at the worst.
i'm actually thinking it would be a way to provide an excellent sparring partner for training.