Planescape: Torment

[Thrivol]

I've heard about this game before. A friend of mine recommended it, so I decided to buy it. It'll be here in a couple of days. What does everyone think about it?

[Semidi]

Where did you get it and how much did you pay for it? I've been looking for a copy, but I haven't found it new for under 60 bucks.

Sorry, uhm, most people here will say that this game is the greatest thing since the invention of the d20.

[Tom_Violence]

It is amazing. Provided you like fantastic story-telling, that is. Game mechanics aren't great, but frankly they could be whatever since everything becomes secondary compared to said amazing plot.

PS: This is the only re-occuring thread that I could ever tolerate.

[DeathQuaker]

I'll recurrently chime and and say that the game is absolutely fantastic--if you like story driven RPGs. It is my very favorite game I have ever, ever played, but I wouldn't say it's for everyone.

The game is very dialogue oriented--there is tons to read and your choices do affect what happens in the game--no, the overall plot won't change dramatically, but how you get there and who is loyal to you will change.

It is one of the few D&D based games I've played where in many respects, Wisdom and Charisma are the most important stats--and no, you don't get to play a spellcaster with those as primary stats. I love this; I've seen other people get truly pissed off about it.

The combat system is a little clunky, but not much more so than any other Infinity Engine game (i.e., the Baldur's Gate series, etc.). It takes a little getting used to how the "remote" (the command interface that pops up when you right click) works but once you get a feel for it it works pretty well.

Also, word of advice: while walkthroughs can be helpful, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT spoil yourself for the ending or important plot points. It's worth exploring for yourself (the only thing I will "spoil" is, again, boost your Cha and Wis and save before the ending so you can try different options and see the results).

[Cubey]

Launch this game and get ready for the best ride of your life. Unless you hate reading LOTS of excellent, well-written text, mostly conversations.

Notes:
-Combat is mostly easy and/or avoidable, so there is no need to twink your character out. Instead, do what DeathQuaker said - more Wisdom means a bigger insight into the Nameless One's past! But every stat is useful in non-combat situations in some way, so just create the character you want to play.
-Remember, and that is very important because you WILL lose a lot of depth if you forget, that you can and should talk with other party members.
-No need to hurry with the main plot. Fortunately, the game warns you if you're going to enter a new "act" and leave the old one with its locations, quests and NPCs behind.
-Try not to think too hard about where does Morte keep all the stuff you give to him.

[Manticorkscrew]

I bought a copy fairly recently, and I've been hooked on it. Sadly many important plot points were spoiled for me before I bought it, but it's still a brilliant game. I might not have bought it if I hadn't stumbled upon some fairly spoileriffic reviews, so I have mixed feelings about that.

[Pronounceable]

Torment is the greatest thing since the invention of d20. There, I said it.

[Archonic Energy]

Sorry, uhm, most people here will say that this game is the greatest thing since the invention of the d20.

no, no, no.

it's the greatest thing since the invention of the EARTH!

All Hail Planescape!

[Blayze]

One more to be brought into the fold, eh? Excellent. Make sure to take your time with this game, and talk to EVERYONE. Especially the throwaway characters.

That old woman in Sigil who talks about her past as an adventurer still cracks me up to this day.

In fact, it's about time I played it again. I think I shall.

[Driderman]

Excellent game, but be sure to patch it for even more excellence: http://www.planescape-torment.org/

There are also a couple of mods that add some cut content:
http://modlist.pocketplane.net/index.php?ax=list&cat_id=15

[Merlin the Tuna]

Torment is a pretty good story that has an absolutely terrible game getting in the way of telling it.

[Morty]

I'll repeat what other people have said and say that Planescape: Torment is absolutely great game and possibly best cRPG ever in terms of story -and what else matters in RPG?

[Om]

PS:T is the only game where I do not skip through the dialogue but instead devour every word. Reekwind's tale of the Alley of Dangerous Angles remains amongst the best pieces of writing that I've ever had the pleasure to read.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

I have kept an eye out for this game since I have never played it but have always wanetd to. Hopefull I will find it eventually and be able to enjoy it. From what i have heard and read, I will likely enjoy it thoroughly.

[Driderman]

I'm just glad I still have the copies I made of my original discs, since I've lost those.

[Pyro]

no, no, no.

it's the greatest thing since the invention of the EARTH!

All Hail Planescape!

Hah, while reading this thread I knew it was only a matter of time before Archonic Energy would pop and say something like that.

[Archonic Energy]

Hah, while reading this thread I knew it was only a matter of time before Archonic Energy would pop and say something like that.

strange... i saw the title and thought that DQ had probably beaten me to posting here !

(play the Planescape heal/hurt game over in SMBG... there is cake)

[Yuki Akuma]

Planescape is what got me into D&D in the first place, so I may be a little biased, but...

It makes most real games of D&D (and most D&D RPGs) seem utter drivel in comparison. I played Planescape before Baldur's Gate. Big mistake. :smallfrown:

"I'm a little Modron short and stout." - Nordom

[Assasinater]

Planescape is what got me into D&D in the first place, so I may be a little biased, but...

It makes most real games of D&D (and most D&D RPGs) seem utter drivel in comparison. I played Planescape before Baldur's Gate. Big mistake. :smallfrown:


Planescape and Baldur's Gate 2 are, to me, like a very good book and a very good movie (respectively). You'll naturally find the better and more complicated story in the book.

(ok, very poor comparison, but anyway)

[lin_fusan]

I find it a great game story-wise. The first half is excellent with all the different dialogue options and choices based on your main character's stats.

I found the last half a little disappointing because it starts you down on a single story path.

Also, I loved the fact that you could talk to your party members and activate personal quests and dialogue trees, although I wished some of the other characters had more to do with them.

And I love the setting and environment (but I'm a big Planescape pen-and-paper fan already).

[Blayze]

Anyway, have fun with what is a gem of a game... Supplicant. :P

[Caelestion]

Planescape: Torment rocks. It is the best CRPG ever produced and one of the very few CRPGs to deserve the title. Even Morrowind has to settle for second place beside it :)

[Aidan305]

Torment rocks. That is all.

[Mordan]

A few things to remember with this truly excellent game...

1. Depending on how many disks are in your set, you may not need the patch. Make sure you read the official documentation on the website carefully. If you are playing the 2 disk version (same stuff, just better formatting to fit on less disks) then you won't need to patch, it's already included.

2. There is absolutely no way possible to do everything in 1 sitting. By making certain choices at certains, other options later become unvailable, and if you dont do something in a given order, you may never get it. But that's okay, since technically you can't die, and you get a special dialogue at the end of the game if you do run out of HP at least once during the game, enjoy.

3. There are places in the game where you have to "die" in order to proceed. Take advantage of the fact that your character seems immortal and have fun.

4. Every conversation and action you take affects your alignment, which in turns affects how certain events unfold and how certain NPCs will react to you, as well as your Charisma. You can have a 25 Cha, but if you're the wrong alignment and they've heard of you (your character is pretty well defined and descibable) then you're hosed anyways.

Most of all, enjoy!! There is no time limit and there is no wrong way to get to the end. I played it through 3 or 4 times before I ever looked for a WT for it, then was shocked at the sheer number of things I never figured out. And if you're not happy playing as a certain class, just be patient. This is Planescape, and anything is probable.

Hey boss, what do you say we shag on over to the bar for a cold one?

[Blayze]

and you get a special dialogue at the end of the game if you do run out of HP at least once during the game, enjoy.

Does that include the times you have to die? I mean, how much HP do you need to survive the traps in your 'tomb'?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've been thinking about getting this game myself, but I'm a little ambivalent, since I'm having trouble with Baldur's Gate II, due to the different system. I've never played 2E D&D, having only arrived on the D&D scene shortly after 3.5E was released. As a result, when I tried to play Baldur's Gate II, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. :smallfrown:

[Om]

I've been thinking about getting this game myself, but I'm a little ambivalent, since I'm having trouble with Baldur's Gate II, due to the different system. I've never played 2E D&D, having only arrived on the D&D scene shortly after 3.5E was released. As a result, when I tried to play Baldur's Gate II, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. :smallfrown:I played the original BG before even knowing what DnD was and I got on fine. Hells I still haven't played DnD and I can enjoy 3.5E games. All this is less of an issue in PT:S however where the mechanics of DnD are really not of importance.

[Mordan]

There is no point in the game where you HAVE to die. There are some things you cannot do unless you die, but you can actually complete the game with 0 deaths. If you do, you lose out on a special cutscene at the end between the Antagonist and the Protagonist. I found that one totally by accident because I wanted to see what would happen if you didn't die at all. Yes, this means that you have to find another way in to the mausoleum near the end, but it is possible.

This game, while having aspects of 2nd Edition, can be played with 0 knowledge of any gaming system. It is well written and self explanatory. If you have no knowledge of what thing do in the 2nd Edition world, it won't make any difference. Just remember this important thing: sometimes repeating the same quest multiple times is part of the quest itself. Don't get discouraged, it serves a purpose, and when given dialogue options, sometimes the obvious answer IS the right one. They really did an excellent job on this game.

So, you're an adventurer, eh? Well, don't be asking be about the Almight Vorpal Sword +5 of Shooting Thunderbolts our your Arse!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yes, but BG2 doesn't seem to have much in the way of a tutorial as far as I could tell. It seemed like it expected you to know what stuff like THAC0 was when you installed the game. Plus I have no idea how to build a survivable character and I wasn't sure how the game handled. Ultimately I just quit because it felt too alien to me and immediately popped in Neverwinter Nights Diamond to return to the familiar D&D experience I knew and loved. I still wanna play it though. I'm just not sure how.:smallfrown:

What do you mean the game doesn't rely on mechanics much?

[Blayze]

What do you mean the game doesn't rely on mechanics much?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say "You'll spend so much time talking that your precious Vorpal Sword will become rusty."

[Mordan]

I thought we were still talking about the topic. BG and BG2 are very intensive in the rulebooks, but even if you do geek up your character, there a few things to remember. If you want to be a fighter, stick it all in STR and CON, if you wanna go thief, stick it all in DEX and CON, and if you wanna play either of the magic classes, go with WIS and INT. Other then that, just go for it, it wont hurt you if your character dies, and you've gained valuable knowledge.

[DeathQuaker]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say "You'll spend so much time talking that your precious Vorpal Sword will become rusty."

Actually, there are no swords in the game. :) Well, technically there's one, but you have to re-shape it into one of the weapons you can use (which are knives, clubs, hammers, axes, and fist weapons, IIRC).

But yes, it is an extremely dialogue heavy game.

I wouldn't necessarily call it a "mechanics lite" game, though. It's still AD&D 2nd ed, and there are a lot of ability checks and the like, even if you avoid most of the combat.

[Yuki Akuma]

Actually, there are no swords in the game. :) Well, technically there's one, but you have to re-shape it into one of the weapons you can use (which are knives, clubs, hammers, axes, and fist weapons, IIRC).

But yes, it is an extremely dialogue heavy game.

I wouldn't necessarily call it a "mechanics lite" game, though. It's still AD&D 2nd ed, and there are a lot of ability checks and the like, even if you avoid most of the combat.

There are two swords in the game. One is a katana, actually, but only one of your NPCs can use it.

As for the mechanical side of things... there are only two fights that you have to win in order to complete the game. You can even talk your way through the final boss.

[Om]

Yes, but BG2 doesn't seem to have much in the way of a tutorial as far as I could tell. It seemed like it expected you to know what stuff like THAC0 was when you installed the game.You did read the manual, right? And, for the record, low THAC0 and AC = good.


I wouldn't necessarily call it a "mechanics lite" game, though. It's still AD&D 2nd ed, and there are a lot of ability checks and the like, even if you avoid most of the combat.But the ability checks are simple attribute checks. If you have high strength then you'll be able to lift a cart, for example, and its all fairly self-explanatory. That this is all done through the dialogue only helps.

There are, I think, a whole load of poison/will/death saving modifiers but I just ignored them.

[Saint George]

There are two swords in the game. One is a katana, actually, but only one of your NPCs can use it.

As for the mechanical side of things... there are only two fights that you have to win in order to complete the game. You can even talk your way through the final boss.




Actually, there are three swords in the game. But you are correct, one of them is NPC only.

[DeathQuaker]

Eh. I guess I thought of the karach as its own thing, rather than a "sword." The point being, that the main character does not get a sword. According to interviews with him, Chris Avellone made a special point of ensuring that, because he was sick of the "uber magical sword" stuff that happened in so many RPGs.

I apologize for an off-hand comment I made, intended to be slightly humorous, to spark off responses of nitpicking fanwank. Please return to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[Mordan]

My point was that while there are a lot of aspects from 2nd Ed in the game, and that is the engine it was built around, that for the most part, those are all invisible, as they should be. Nameless doesnt know that he's performing a feat to see if that guy's poisoned dagger just hit him, and the game doesn't tell you that you're performing that check. It just does it. You don't actually have to have the 2nd Ed books out in front of you in order to play the game. As a matterr of fact, the guy who first showed me the game had never played any D&D and didn't even realize that Planescape was a realm in the D&D Universe. He just thought it was a really cool game.

[Archonic Energy]

people please.
Don't get caught up in a "Corrective loop" we are all here for the one thing...

Praise Be to Planescape.
Long live TNO
*Bows*

[DeathQuaker]

people please.
Don't get caught up in a "Corrective loop" we are all here for the one thing...

Praise Be to Planescape.
Long live TNO
*Bows*

Q.F.T.

Quoted for Torment.

Er, Truth. Yeah, truth. No, make that Torment.

Although, I wouldn't necessarily wish the poor Nameless One a long life. He's had it long enough, I think. :smallbiggrin: But long live his legend... heck yeah.

[Yuki Akuma]

Actually, there are three swords in the game. But you are correct, one of them is NPC only.

I'd hardly call the Sword of Whynn an actual sword... it's more of a dagger. :smallwink: And not actually available through normal gameplay anyway.

[Tengu]

Planescape: Torment is so awesome that it's the only western RPG I rate above such jRPG gems as FF6, FF7 or Chrono Trigger.

Though I'm not sure if that really counts, since the authors listed FF among their sources of inspiration, and it seems that the game actually takes the best of the two worlds, combining the story and uniquess (is that a word?) of characters from japanese RPGs and the freedom of classical ones into the unbeatable king of all computer roleplaying games ever!

Which sold worse than Diablo 2. Talk about lack of taste.

[Blayze]

Actually, there are three swords in the game.

Then again, I think there's a sword mentioned when you buy your eye to pay off your bar tab.

Edit: I failed at that quote.

[DeathQuaker]

Which sold worse than Diablo 2. Talk about lack of taste.

Kind of an apples'n'oranges comparison.

Diablo is an action clicker. Torment is a full-on RPG. Diablo 2 was a heavily anticipated sequel to popular game. Torment wasn't a sequel to anything, and no Planescape video game had ever come out before--and maybe it even suffered because Baldur's Gate fans were waiting for Baldur's Gate II, not something totally different. It looked significantly different enough from other D&D-based games that casual D&D players and others might not have been interested in picking it up on that alone (I know I didn't pick it up when it came out, and only played it after a friend put it in my hands said, "you HAVE TO PLAY THIS." Glad I followed his advice.).

Finally, there was just an issue of marketing. There was poor marketing, and even stuff like the lousy and misleading box art is blamed on its initial poor sales (the game did go Gold however). Diablo 2 was trumpeted all over the place, had more consistent marketing, and word of mouth was faster to support it because, again, it was a sequel to a popular game. And, behind the scenes, Diablo II was being put out by the increasingly successful and stable developing studio Blizzard. Torment was put out by Interplay, who were already having loads of behind-the-scenes financial and management issues.

[Assasinater]

Which sold worse than Diablo 2. Talk about lack of taste.

The fact that any new console game with at least bit of good marketing sells more than Fallout, Planescape, and Baldur's Gate combined says a little about the subject.

The way I look at it, they are classic games, we play them, we enjoy them. The rest is unimportant.

[Saint George]

Then again, I think there's a sword mentioned when you buy your eye to pay off your bar tab.

Edit: I failed at that quote.


Just for reference... I believe the three are...

The Entropic Blade from the big ol' golem
The Sword from the Angel (Only gettable if you kill him... or let Vhailor kill him)
And the Karatch Blade. Dakkon Only.

[Apex]

I've heard about this game before. A friend of mine recommended it, so I decided to buy it. It'll be here in a couple of days. What does everyone think about it?

In the later part of the game, make sure you have an empty NPC space for Vhailor!!!

[Tekar]

Just for reference... I believe the three are...

The Entropic Blade from the big ol' golem
The Sword from the Angel (Only gettable if you kill him... or let Vhailor kill him)
And the Karatch Blade. Dakkon Only.
Yup, those are the only three items that are swords.

[Yuki Akuma]

In the later part of the game, make sure you have an empty NPC space for Vhailor!!!

Unless you don't want the guy who'll turn on you if you choose the wrong conversation options.

[Archonic Energy]

In the later part of the game, make sure you have an empty NPC space for Vhailor!!!

i never had Vhailor in my team... i go for the ranged combatant.

[Driderman]

Concerning Vhailor, minor spoiler:
Why would you want that crazy man along, he wants to kill just about every NPC you encounter!?! I found his presence removed a lot of dialogue options for me since everything ended when he started the killing

As for playing Torment with no knowledge of the AD&D rules set, it shouldn't be a problem. The only thing you need explained really, are the stats and the weapon proficiencies and both are explained thoroughly ingame. If you understand 3rd edition rules, 2nd edition shouldn't prove too much of a hassle since the game takes care of everything for you

[Tengu]

Luckily, Planescape: Torment has exactly 5 cool party members (apart from you, of course), so you do not have to switch them around. Ignus and Vhailor, the epitomes of Chaotic Stupid and Lawful Stupid, can both go to hell.

And in fact, Ignus does.

[DeathQuaker]

As for playing Torment with no knowledge of the AD&D rules set, it shouldn't be a problem. The only thing you need explained really, are the stats and the weapon proficiencies and both are explained thoroughly ingame. If you understand 3rd edition rules, 2nd edition shouldn't prove too much of a hassle since the game takes care of everything for you

Actually, the one D&D 2nd Ed mechanic you want to note is that a LOW AC and LOW THAC0 are good. If you're reading descriptions of items and are reading that one item grants an AC of 8 and another of 5, you need to know the one with the AC of 5 is the better item.

[Yuki Akuma]

Luckily, Planescape: Torment has exactly 5 cool party members (apart from you, of course), so you do not have to switch them around. Ignus and Vhailor, the epitomes of Chaotic Stupid and Lawful Stupid, can both go to hell.

And in fact, Ignus does.

This man speaks Truth. Although one of the cool party members can be a hassle to find on your first run.

Actually, I missed Dak'kon on my first play through...

[Blayze]

so you do not have to switch them around.

Is there a way to get Annah to shut up about Grace? If so, please gief.

[Archonic Energy]

Is there a way to get Annah to shut up about Grace? If so, please gief.

kiss her.


what?
it's how I would shut her up!

[Yuki Akuma]

Is there a way to get Annah to shut up about Grace? If so, please gief.

Annah is the only sane person in the party: you really shouldn't trust Grace.

Oh, she won't betray you, but you really shouldn't trust her. :smalltongue:

[Capoeira]

Please, do yourself a favor and go through the long and epic tale of BG2:SoA...

If Torment is Filet Mignion, BG2 is a fairly tender tbone and NWN/nwn is ground round somthung...

As far asw 2nd ed... my dad still refuses to play 3rd on account of 2nd being simpler and saner.

Just pick the class you like and go. Its all about teamwork. Ranger and Bard are even viable options!




Yes, but BG2 doesn't seem to have much in the way of a tutorial as far as I could tell. It seemed like it expected you to know what stuff like THAC0 was when you installed the game. Plus I have no idea how to build a survivable character and I wasn't sure how the game handled. Ultimately I just quit because it felt too alien to me and immediately popped in Neverwinter Nights Diamond to return to the familiar D&D experience I knew and loved. I still wanna play it though. I'm just not sure how.:smallfrown:

What do you mean the game doesn't rely on mechanics much?

[Archonic Energy]

If Torment is Filet Mignion, BG2 is a fairly tender tbone and NWN/nwn is ground round somthung...


Sorry but no.

Torment is a Kobe Filet Mignion grilled to a perfect medium* with a red wine sauce
A bit rich for some peoples taste

the BG series is a fairly tender tbone (i'll go with you on this)
Appeals to more peoples taste, but doesn't have quite the same flavour

NWN is roast beef
it's not pretty but it fills you up never the less

& NWN2 is dog food
not fit for human consumption (yet... it needs better patching)
(why do bioware keep trusting Obsidian to produce their sequels)

this is of course not including player created maps/mods otherwise i'd raise NWN one notch

*you may subtitute this for a Lower cooking time but NOT a higher, infact i'm thinking that Medium may be a waste of this lovely beef

[Morty]

NPCs in Torment are indeed made of pure win, even Vhailor(not Ignus, though). Though it would be nice if Vhailor didn't try to kill everyone you meet. Although, I've heard you can change Nordom's "programming", but I couldn't do it. Maybe I did something wrong.

[Tengu]

BG2 is prettier than Planescape: Torment, bigger and is more challenging when it comes to battles. But it cannot even stand to the depth of the other game's story and the amount of emotion it carries. Torment is one of the few western games that manage to pull the trick which makes many jRPGs so great - truly move you.

NWN 1&2 are multiplayer games. 2 is better than 1 now, but much worse than 1 when it was released. And much buggier.

[Yuki Akuma]

NPCs in Torment are indeed made of pure win, even Vhailor(not Ignus, though). Though it would be nice if Vhailor didn't try to kill everyone you meet. Although, I've heard you can change Nordom's "programming", but I couldn't do it. Maybe I did something wrong.

You have to beat the wizard Rubikon with Nordom in your party before you can reprogram him.

[Shikton]

I personally love Ignus. :)

Torment = Ambrosia.

[Morty]

You have to beat the wizard Rubikon with Nordom in your party before you can reprogram him.

I did, but I still can't do anything. Maybe I'll try talking to him again.


NWN 1&2 are multiplayer games. 2 is better than 1 now, but much worse than 1 when it was released. And much buggier.

I was looking forward to try to play NWN2, but then I heard about poor dialogue and plot as well as retarded NPCs and I gave up. I'll rather go through Torment third time. There's got to be something I didn't see.

[Saint George]

I have an idea of how to reprogram Nordom, but I have never actually accomplished this myself due to me being an idiot, messing something up, and not having the willpower to go through the damn cube again.

Allegedly, to get Nordom to reprogram himself, you need to get the wizard to admit that he killed the old creative director. If you do what I did, and lose once or twice to the wizard and on your final attempt just skip his dialogue cause you are angry then you miss out on this.

Once you have that key bit of information, you can convince Nordom that you are the new creative director and you can make him do all sorts of things that boost his stats.

Again, never tested this, but this is what I hear.

[Yuki Akuma]

Rubikon respawns, you know. You can fight him again.

[Saint George]

Lack of willpower. I didn't figure out what I did wrong till far later. I hate that damn dungeon.

[Pronounceable]

I think you need some high mental stats to reprogram him. I remember doing that, and I always have very high int and wis. The fuly optimized Nordom kicks nine different kinds of ass.

[Blayze]

If memory serves, you can pick one of three or four ways in which to upgrade Nordom.

[SITB]

If memory serves, you can pick one of three or four ways in which to upgrade Nordom.

Nope, you can upgrade him in four ways. You are not limited to only one way(or at least, in the version that I played).

Also, Ravel is awesome and Vhailor is interesting; you probably shouldn't take him on your first playthrough but it's interesting to take him on one of the others.