Limiting Magic Items in a Highly Magical World?

[Nikushimi]

First, hey there. Thanks for stopping in. Hope you're comfortable and warm. Taking care of yourself.

Now then. On to my conundrum.

I am creating a world that is roughly based off of the anime/manga series DanMachi. Dungeons are the main focus of the world. Deities walk the mortal plane, and they are the ones who grant the mortals their abilities (classes) and help them to grow in power when they are ready (level up).

So, the world as it is, is a highly magical world.

There is magic almost everywhere, but a lot of the world is rather mundane. Meaning that the outside world is not as dangerous as inside the dungeons except in certain areas.

But, there comes a problem with this setting.

See, I want to create this setting that is highly magical/mythical. A wondrous realm with hidden dangers if you're not careful. With the Deities granting powers to mortals who join with them in their Households, or Families, there are many people who can use abilities and powers. Magic and everything.

But, I want to limit the amount of magic items in the world, or rather, not limit, but make Magic items a rarity.

They have to go questing for a rumor of an item, whether it be in the dungeons in the main cities around the world, or out in the world about some myth from the ancient past.

Either that or have the item created, but in order to get it created they have to find the materials for them.

Basically, I am trying to limit the amount of magic items in shops to simply +1's and up in terms of weapons and armor. With some shops carrying things like Mithril Chain or Silver Swords, but nothing like a Flametongue, or Vorpal Sword. They won't find those in shops.

But, in a highly magical, blessed world, how can I explain this to the players when most people have abilities and magic, and magic items CAN be created, but they just aren't in shops?

[Anymage]

You *might* want to institute an element where magic items can be broken down for whatever. To boost a power, to repurpose for making other items, etc. Magic items in normal D&D are highly durable goods, which is why the +1 swords that the PCs find on most of their enemies wind up just sitting in a closet somewhere. Something that removes them from circulation will tamp down on supply.

On top of that, if there are a lot of people with powers, of course there's a lot of competition for owning powerful items. So long as a flaming sword is worth the hassle of getting one, lots of people will be interested in having a flaming sword. As long as demand outstrips supply, they'll be in the hands of heroes and merchants won't be able to find any to have in stock.

[JackPhoenix]

Crafting magic items isn't an easy matter: you'll have to find out a recipe how to do it, then spend piles of gold and weeks of your life making it, in addition to dealing with pretty high-CR creatures (not necessarily through combat). Economy kicks in: the master smith *can* spend a year and 100k gp making a vorpal sword, but he'll want to be compensated accordingly, and there just aren't many people with that much money. Spending all that effort just to put the result on a shelf in a shop, hoping someone rich enough will walk by is stupid. Anyone who can afford that will commission the smith to make exactly the weapon they want. In the same time, the smith can make 25 +1 weapons for 5k total, which *will* sell, because there are much more people who can afford them.

And if some anus decide he'll steal the weapon instead of paying for it, the loss is much smaller.

[Nikushimi]

Ah, so the suggestions are to basically make the cost of making them extremely high, so shops typically won't sell them.

So if you want it cheaper, you find the materials yourself and then pay for the labor.

Cause the players won't be making them, unless they want to, but rather high skilled craftsmen or smiths under a Deity. Thinking on making the ability to create Magic Items to be a skill only those under a Forge or Craftsmen Deity would have, but you have to find the materials unless you want to pay more.

That could work. Basically, while there are lots of people with power in the world, Magic Items are still rare because of what it takes to actually make them.

So I don't need to change the setting at all that much.

So what kind of setting would that be? Would it still be High Fantasy or some other kind of genre?

But I like the feedback. Thanks!

[MrStabby]

So there is a difference (should you wish) between free magic able to be pulled out of the air and magic bound inside an item. Casting spells is easy, creating items isn't.

Or you could add a moral element to it - if magic comes from spirits (guardian angels, ancestor spirits, fey or whatever) then people are happy to use what is about but would not consider binding a spirit in an item - an act of cruelty. Possibly doing so would incur the wrath of similar spirits.

Just find an in game reason why despite there being a lot of magic, it is hard to create/buy/find items.

You could even have something like proximity to sunlight suppresses magic. Above ground magic items look mundane - this means that it is very difficult to sell such items, the market collapses. Indeed, even if you were to buy such an item and it were to be magical you would only find out what it did as you went underground.

[StoicLeaf]

I'm unfamiliar with the anime you're describing, as such I might be misunderstanding some of the things you've written.

High magic for me (at least the way I run it) means that:

1) There are more people out there that use magic. Most people know someone who can cast at least a cantrip and will personally see mid level spells at irregular intervals.
2) The breadth of spells being used is wider. A fireball is something a noble will have thrown into the air during a celebration.
3) The number of truely awe inspiring casters is still low, however. The average level of a spell being cast is higher but lower than 4.

Having said that, here are some other points or ideas to consider:

1) Magic items are tools. In one of my high magic cities, inhabitants all carry a ring that allows them to manipulate magical devices. These perform tasks such as flicking magical lights on or off, producing water in a basin, etc. Mundane things. But this city is near an iron resource. The more specialised magical devices they build are all catered to making the mining process easier and more profitable. This city isn't going to churn out vorpal swords because they don't need the damn things and it wouldn't be economically sustainable. Similarly, while it would be super awesome to equip an army with +5 plate and vorpal weaponry, human beings like to be efficient about things. Why do that when an army wielding +1 armor and weapons can get the job done at 15% of the price?

2) +1 items are a way for an apprentice to demonstrate their skills and value before they become masters and go off to do their own thing. Low level magic items are well documented, there are best practices to follow. There are therefore many low level magic items but not so many items of higher craftsmanship. Not every master is going to go out and make weapons, nor are there guidelines on how to make them safely/in bulk/effectively. Consider your local discount supermarket. You can purchase a kitchen knife for <10$ that'll be "ok" but nothing particularly special; it won't be suited to your hand, nor will it keep its edge for long. If you want something truely awesome, you're going to have to find someone that handcrafts the damn things and easily part with >100$.

3) There are rules. The same way a civilian cannot own a battle ready tank or a nuclear submarine, a normal person cannot own a weapon that almost has a consciousness of its own that seeks to decapitate everyone its pointed at. Sure, there might be a black market that trades in such things but this would explain the rarity and price of such objects. The dungeons where these items are being hidden could be labs where something went wrong, a police vault where it's being stored before being destroyed or a crime lord's private estate.

[nickl_2000]

You can also make all magical items a holy item in the world. They can be sacrificed to the gods of the work to increase personal magical power or the power of the god itself.

Clerics and religious people of the world seek them out and destroy them as a sacrifice regularly.

It certainly would explain why there are few of them around in a world that has a lot of magic in general.

[Dungeon-noob]

Honestly, if you're basing a world of Danmachi, i'd say use the rules that i've seen apply to magic swords there; all items are limited. That is to say, all of them have limited uses and charges and break when used up. That way, without permanence, the supply will be kept low through use, and the items stay rare. It also makes using them more impactfull, because it becomes another resource to manage.

[Nikushimi]

Honestly, if you're basing a world of Danmachi, i'd say use the rules that i've seen apply to magic swords there; all items are limited. That is to say, all of them have limited uses and charges and break when used up. That way, without permanence, the supply will be kept low through use, and the items stay rare. It also makes using them more impactfull, because it becomes another resource to manage.

Yes, but I feel that the players would then find the purpose of them pointless, or would rather not have a magic weapon or go through the trouble of getting them cause why get them and go through that trouble if they're just going to break?

That is going to be the thought process of my players, since I've played with them in other games when I was a player and have kind of gained some insight to their thoughts. So unfortunately I don't think that will work unless it is a specific item, but not all items.

So this could be possible for some items and weapons. Perhaps some that are extremely powerful such as the Magic Swords in DanMachi.

[stoutstien]

First, hey there. Thanks for stopping in. Hope you're comfortable and warm. Taking care of yourself.

Now then. On to my conundrum.

I am creating a world that is roughly based off of the anime/manga series DanMachi. Dungeons are the main focus of the world. Deities walk the mortal plane, and they are the ones who grant the mortals their abilities (classes) and help them to grow in power when they are ready (level up).

So, the world as it is, is a highly magical world.

There is magic almost everywhere, but a lot of the world is rather mundane. Meaning that the outside world is not as dangerous as inside the dungeons except in certain areas.

But, there comes a problem with this setting.

See, I want to create this setting that is highly magical/mythical. A wondrous realm with hidden dangers if you're not careful. With the Deities granting powers to mortals who join with them in their Households, or Families, there are many people who can use abilities and powers. Magic and everything.

But, I want to limit the amount of magic items in the world, or rather, not limit, but make Magic items a rarity.

They have to go questing for a rumor of an item, whether it be in the dungeons in the main cities around the world, or out in the world about some myth from the ancient past.

Either that or have the item created, but in order to get it created they have to find the materials for them.

Basically, I am trying to limit the amount of magic items in shops to simply +1's and up in terms of weapons and armor. With some shops carrying things like Mithril Chain or Silver Swords, but nothing like a Flametongue, or Vorpal Sword. They won't find those in shops.

But, in a highly magical, blessed world, how can I explain this to the players when most people have abilities and magic, and magic items CAN be created, but they just aren't in shops?

So basically any campaign set in the forgotten realm? there's nearly an infinitude of magical items in the setting but they're still incredibly rare and hard to acquire. The 2 most logical reasoning behind this are lateral expansion and social apathy.
water expansion basically means because the magical items are in hard-to-reach places that are dangerous, only more powerful individuals can acquire them and then use the newly gained item(s) to seek out and collect even more powerful items. if you want an item that is rumored to be part of a dragon's hoard you have to be able to face a dragon in one way or another before seeking that item is a valid option.

The second is widespread social apathy. the vast majority of people in the setting are busy living so they don't care about the magical Items locked away in dangerous locations. it's the same as the reason why you don't have thousands of boats out of the ocean looking for sunken treasure. It takes a lot of time, planning, resources, and drive to do it.

[47Ace]

Yes, but I feel that the players would then find the purpose of them pointless, or would rather not have a magic weapon or go through the trouble of getting them cause why get them and go through that trouble if they're just going to break?

That is going to be the thought process of my players, since I've played with them in other games when I was a player and have kind of gained some insight to their thoughts. So unfortunately I don't think that will work unless it is a specific item, but not all items.

So this could be possible for some items and weapons. Perhaps some that are extremely powerful such as the Magic Swords in DanMachi.

They could be limited use but with a use limit too high for the PC to likely over come (i.e. don't even bother tracking it) but, that is still your background fluff explanation.