Simulacrum's half hd does not affect SLAs

[sorcererlover]

By RAW we know this is true. What hd affects is explicitly spelled out in the rules.
But what most people don't know is that it's also true by RAI.

You see, hd is often related to age.
A 8hd PC is years and years younger than his 16hd self.
a 16hd dragon is probably just a young wyrmling at 8hd.

And hd is often related to size as well.
A 42hd Stone Golem is Huge. But a 15hd one is Large.

So does simulacrum create a younger version of the creature you're copying? If I make a simulacrum of myself, do I get one that is 10 years younger than me?
If I make a Simulacrum of a Huge advanced Golem, do I get a shrunken smaller one?
What if we add in race change? If I use a savage species ritual to change my race from human to minotaur, when a simulacrum of me is created, is the simulacrum a human instead of a minotaur?

The answer is no. Your simulacrum is the same size, race, and age as the full hd creature, not its past smaller younger half hd self.

Which means, the half hd is a debuff. Nothing more. Just like how you don't treat a creature with negative levels as if he were his younger self in the past, you don't treat half hd simulacrum as if they are its younger self in the past. Both negative levels and hd has explicit rules on what it affects and what it doesn't. And even when negative levels are turned into true level loss, the victim doesn't get younger! So trying to homebrew a savage species progression of a creature and try to jam that down player's throats to nerf simulacrum is wrong by RAW, RAI, and the attitude and approach of the DM.

Just thought i'd share my musings. Just in case someone misunderstands, I'm not complaining about any DM I had. I only reached high enough level to cast simulacrum only once in my entire d&d career and I made simulacrum of advanced creatures because I used simulacra primarily as beatsticks and the DM didn't mind. But in all the online debates I found, I found a lot of DMs try to use half hd as an excuse to try and rule lawyer Efreeti simulacrums from having free wishes instead of doing the sensible thing and banning Efreeti simulacrums rather than rule lawyer what clearly isn't meant to be.

[Nezkrul]

Yes, the pitfiend simulacrum can still use fireball at will. No, it doesnt keep the original caster level

[sorcererlover]

Yes, the pitfiend simulacrum can still use fireball at will. No, it doesnt keep the original caster level


If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.

Caster level 18th.

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[Segev]

1234567890

You come off a little obtuse with this post, because you don't actually specify where the "caster level 18th" comes from in the SRD. It's left to us to assume that must be somewhere in the Pit Fiend's entry. You would serve yourself better by not using "stupid filler" original text for quote-only responses, and instead taking the time to spell out why the quotes are significant as responses to the arguments you mean them to refute.

Using links to the Pit Fiend (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#pitFiend) entry would also be useful.

Because you're right, the full region of the thing you're quoting is this:


Spell-Like Abilities
At will—blasphemy (DC 25), create undead, fireball (DC 21), greater dispel magic, greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), invisibility, magic circle against good, mass hold monster (DC 27), persistent image (DC 23), power word stun, unholy aura (DC 26); 1/day—meteor swarm (DC 27). Caster level 18th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.Emphasis on caster level part added.

[mehs]

Just thought i'd share my musings. Just in case someone misunderstands, I'm not complaining about any DM I had. I only reached high enough level to cast simulacrum only once in my entire d&d career and I made simulacrum of advanced creatures because I used simulacra primarily as beatsticks and the DM didn't mind. But in all the online debates I found, I found a lot of DMs try to use half hd as an excuse to try and rule lawyer Efreeti simulacrums from having free wishes instead of doing the sensible thing and banning Efreeti simulacrums rather than rule lawyer what clearly isn't meant to be.

Im pretty sure that as it would halve effective Caster level, then it might restrict access to some of their spell like abilities. If the caster level is then lower than the minimum to use those spells, then it should either get a downgraded equivelent (something like empowered fireball instead of meteor swarm) or possibly lose the ability in entirety.

[sorcererlover]

Im pretty sure that as it would halve effective Caster level, then it might restrict access to some of their spell like abilities. If the caster level is then lower than the minimum to use those spells, then it should either get a downgraded equivelent (something like empowered fireball instead of meteor swarm) or possibly lose the ability in entirety.

See mine and Segev's posts above you :)

[Darg]

HD has no bearing on caster level. The real issue is the SRD's description of a spell-like ability. It tells you how they differ from a spell and then tells you that "In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell." They function like spells, but aren't actually spells. Spell-like abilities may have a minimum caster level; however minimum caster level makes no correlation between caster level and HD. Without the appropriate class levels to determine access we can extrapolate that spell-like abilities do not have diminished or removed function based on HD unless the spell-like ability itself has a specific caster level based on HD.

[Thurbane]

Worth noting that some creatures do have SLAs where caster level is directly tied to HD (Half-fiend etc.), so with those examples, halving their HD would affect their caster level.

[Crake]

Which means, the half hd is a debuff. Nothing more. Just like how you don't treat a creature with negative levels as if he were his younger self in the past, you don't treat half hd simulacrum as if they are its younger self in the past. Both negative levels and hd has explicit rules on what it affects and what it doesn't. And even when negative levels are turned into true level loss, the victim doesn't get younger! So trying to homebrew a savage species progression of a creature and try to jam that down player's throats to nerf simulacrum is wrong by RAW, RAI, and the attitude and approach of the DM.

I think it would be more akin to being level drained, as opposed to a debuff.

It is worth noting that there are a lot of creatures who have savage progressions that can be used to extrapolate what abilities they would have at half HD (efreeti being among them), and that I think it would be a perfectly reasonable thing for a DM to homebrew when you try to make a simulacrum of a creature.

[sorcererlover]

I think it would be more akin to being level drained, as opposed to a debuff.

It is worth noting that there are a lot of creatures who have savage progressions that can be used to extrapolate what abilities they would have at half HD (efreeti being among them), and that I think it would be a perfectly reasonable thing for a DM to homebrew when you try to make a simulacrum of a creature.

So you're saying a simulacrum of a 28hd stone golem is a size category smaller than the original?

[Crake]

So you're saying a simulacrum of a 28hd stone golem is a size category smaller than the original?

"and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD"

So, no, it's size would not be affected, but the thread isn't taking about size, the thread is talking about SLAs, which are "special abilities".