Detailed Sight. How far can you see and still make out details?

[Nikushimi]

Hey!

Random, perhaps weird question, but how far can a character see details?

All sources I have looked up says that on a clear day with no obstructions you can see up to 2 miles, but this seems pretty far imo, but then again I don't know.

But, you may be able to see 2 miles, but it will be extremely hard to make out details.

So, how far away can you see details such as facial features, emblems on armor, color of a cloak, color of eyes, etc?

I haven't been able to find any rules or information on this.

I kind of need to know because I am currently creating something (a race) with really good eyesight, and I want them to be able to see details at a distance, but if any character can see in detail up to 60ft then how far before they can't see in detail?

Thanks for the help.

[Segev]

Hey!

Random, perhaps weird question, but how far can a character see details?

All sources I have looked up says that on a clear day with no obstructions you can see up to 2 miles, but this seems pretty far imo, but then again I don't know.

But, you may be able to see 2 miles, but it will be extremely hard to make out details.

So, how far away can you see details such as facial features, emblems on armor, color of a cloak, color of eyes, etc?

I haven't been able to find any rules or information on this.

I kind of need to know because I am currently creating something (a race) with really good eyesight, and I want them to be able to see details at a distance, but if any character can see in detail up to 60ft then how far before they can't see in detail?

Thanks for the help.
Part of the issue here is that the answer varies on the size of the details. With my contacts in, I can read the screen I'm typing on from... *backs away* ...well, I can make it out at about 6 feet, but I have to work at it. If I look at the screen to my right, where font is smaller on the programs I have open, the distance is shorter. My friend has his game room set up so his computer uses the big screen, and he sits on a couch about 10 to 15 feet away, but seeing what he's typing is easy because he's got the resolution set right for it.

The 2 miles thing is, for most human vision, about how far out you can make out a human-scale figure as a humanoid. The higher the contrast, the further out you can do so; the more muddled, the closer in they have to be to make out individuals.

Here's what I would use for rulings, because I would want to make this feature useful and it's the only thing that gives us some real metrics. The Eagle Totem Barbarian's second ability is to see things as well at a mile as you do at 100 feet. I would thus suggest that, at 100 feet, you can make out any emblems that are worn by human-scale figures and are meant to be used to identify them at a glance. I think modern sports bears this out a bit; most camera work for the field is farther away than that, and you have to rely on things like uniform color to pick them out at a glance. But you can sometimes still make out the emblems on helments if the angle is just right and they hold still long enough.

If the emblems are not emblazoned on a shield or banner, or part of a full uniform, I would make it a DC 10 at 100 feet to make it out with Perception. I'd add 1 to the DC for every 10 feet beyond that.

Making out full-body things, like whether it's a goblin or an orc, I'd probably let them just do unless there was a solid reason not to, at anything within a thousand feet. Beyond that, I would probably just say there're figures out there. (Except to the Eagle-eyed Barbarian; he gets to see them clearly, of course.) With a DC 20 Perception roll, I'd probably allow identification of things like "goblin" versus "gnome" even at those distances.

One of my frustrations with 5e is the lack of example DCs, so I am spitballing, and that's all you really can do. If it's near that 2 mile limit, I'd say it's DC 25 or 30 to make out even the gross details beyond a countable number of figures.

[EggKookoo]

IRL I can identify my neighbor mowing his lawn at easily 200 feet away. But then, I also know it's my neighbor so I'm sure I'm filling in details mentally.

I would say for practical purposes, I can identify someone by their face at 60 feet in good light. For game mechanics, I'd say bright light, and then halve it in dim light. That might also do for identifying other emblems, symbols, and features that are roughly face-sized. Then maybe scale it based on the size of the thing relative to you. A cloak is very big and I could certainly pick out the color at 120 feet, assuming it was distinct against the background.

[elyktsorb]

This reminded me of the Totem Barbarian Eagle choice at 6th level. "You gain the eyesight of an eagle. You can see up to 1 mile away with no difficulty, able to discern even fine details as though looking at something no more than 100 feet away from you."

So according to this characters can discern fine details of things up to 100 ft away with no difficulty? Otherwise why mention it in the ability description. Though this makes me realize how insane being able to discern the fine details of something from a mile is.

[Nikushimi]

This reminded me of the Totem Barbarian Eagle choice at 6th level. "You gain the eyesight of an eagle. You can see up to 1 mile away with no difficulty, able to discern even fine details as though looking at something no more than 100 feet away from you."

So according to this characters can discern fine details of things up to 100 ft away with no difficulty? Otherwise why mention it in the ability description. Though this makes me realize how insane being able to discern the fine details of something from a mile is.

True, I forgot about that ability for the Totem Barbarian, cause they're typically just smashing things in the campaigns I play in.

But you're right, that's a good basis to use when creating what I am creating. Which is a race that has different animal characteristics.

Basically just humanoids with some kind of animal features. Ears, Tail, Claws, Eyes, etc. that grant them each unique abilities.

So the bird family of this race have really good eyesight, or could have a potential for them (players choose only a couple traits with their abilities).

So I needed to know how far away they could easily make out details such as "Oh, that small crest on that persons armor is that of the Royal Family. They must be a royal guard." or "That persons eye color is green." and seeing these things from a distance, but I am unsure if 120ft is too short or if it's too far.

Maybe I should use the Eagle Totem as a basis then in this case which I TOTALLY forgot about.

[OldTrees1]

It depends on the details.

From where I am sitting I can make out the top / bottom edges shingles on a roof 2 roads away but I can see the left / right edges on the roof across the road. So the closer I get the more details I can see.

Color would be a rather easy detail to notice if you can see the object at all. Color is reflected light so it will be similar to seeing the Moon from Earth. They might see someone a mile away with a brown cloak but not be able to see their eyes at all.

Shapes are the next easiest detail to notice. Here you can generally tell the shape except the edges get blurry the further away it is as the resolution becomes limited by your lens (As an aside, different fictional creatures might have different lens). What might be a 6 pointed star at 20ft might look like a star at 40ft, a blob at 80ft, and a circle at 160ft. This can change depending on the contrast at the edges. Put an tan star on an orange background and I would need to be closer than if it was a black star on a white background.

Facial features could mean any number of things. But some facial features are nuanced enough that someone might never see them.

[Keravath]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity#%22Normal%22_visual_acuity

"6/6 is the visual acuity needed to discriminate two contours separated by 1 arc minute – 1.75 mm at 6 metres. This is because a 6/6 letter, E for example, has three limbs and two spaces in between them, giving 5 different detailed areas. The ability to resolve this therefore requires 1/5 of the letter's total size, which in this case would be 1 minute of arc (visual angle). The significance of the 6/6 standard can best be thought of as the lower limit of normal, or as a screening cutoff. When used as a screening test, subjects that reach this level need no further investigation, even though the average visual acuity with a healthy visual system is typically better."

1.75mm at 6 meters would scale to 291mm at 1km or about 0.3 meters. At 2km this would be about 0.6 meters. At 2 miles this is roughly a meter. So using a standard eye exam as a reference. You could read a letter E that is 5 meters tall at a distance of 2 miles. It also says that average visual acuity if you don't need corrective lenses is typically better though the numbers seem to be 6/4 or 6/5 which might represent a 50% improvement (? - guessing).

Anyway, at a distance of 2 miles, you won't be able to make out any details at all since the eye doesn't typically have light sensitive cells or sufficient quality optics to perceive at the resolution necessary. You can SEE things at that distance but I think you would be hard pressed to make out any details and the results will vary strongly by individual.

[Nikushimi]

It depends on the details.

From where I am sitting I can make out the top / bottom edges shingles on a roof 2 roads away but I can see the left / right edges on the roof across the road. So the closer I get the more details I can see.

Color would be a rather easy detail to notice if you can see the object at all. Color is reflected light so it will be similar to seeing the Moon from Earth. They might see someone a mile away with a brown cloak but not be able to see their eyes at all.

Shapes are the next easiest detail to notice. Here you can generally tell the shape except the edges get blurry the further away it is as the resolution becomes limited by your lens (As an aside, different fictional creatures might have different lens). What might be a 6 pointed star at 20ft might look like a star at 40ft, a blob at 80ft, and a circle at 160ft. This can change depending on the contrast at the edges. Put an tan star on an orange background and I would need to be closer than if it was a black star on a white background.

Facial features could mean any number of things. But some facial features are nuanced enough that someone might never see them.

Well, that's why I was trying to give examples of what details I'm talking about.

Being able to tell a persons eye color from a distance. Let's say, a block away (which according to the internet is roughly 300ft).
Being able to tell what a small crest's symbol is from let's say 100-300ft away. Small being the size of a dollar coin or pendant.

That's what I mean by details. Literal details. Fine details. Color of eyes, what that small symbol is, being able to see their lips moving, being able to spot a small animal from a long ways away. That kind of stuff.

Just trying to figure out how far too far would be for that kind of stuff, but something that would be far enough that it would be considered accurate for such an animal.

Which is why the Eagle Totem Barbarian was a good guideline.

Cause one of the subtypes of this race can have Bird Eyes, which grant improved vision. So they could see fine details and have no penalty to long range attacks cause they can see really well.

[elyktsorb]

Well, that's why I was trying to give examples of what details I'm talking about.

Being able to tell a persons eye color from a distance. Let's say, a block away (which according to the internet is roughly 300ft).
Being able to tell what a small crest's symbol is from let's say 100-300ft away. Small being the size of a dollar coin or pendant.

That's what I mean by details. Literal details. Fine details. Color of eyes, what that small symbol is, being able to see their lips moving, being able to spot a small animal from a long ways away. That kind of stuff.

Just trying to figure out how far too far would be for that kind of stuff, but something that would be far enough that it would be considered accurate for such an animal.

Which is why the Eagle Totem Barbarian was a good guideline.

Cause one of the subtypes of this race can have Bird Eyes, which grant improved vision. So they could see fine details and have no penalty to long range attacks cause they can see really well.

If I were you I would throw 'normal' human sight out the window. Since with stuff like Sharpshooter, a Longbow will shoot 600ft without disadvantage, and it makes no mention of having better sight. I mean, you could argue that this feat makes it so that the character who takes them gains the ability to see far enough to aim properly, but considering they can't use this far sight to discern other stuff, I take it to mean that they are just really good at lining up shots to be able to shoot far distances.

To this end I'd also argue that being able to see well wouldn't be a good enough reason to give a character better chances to hit with a long ranged weapon, since as I mentioned, a Totem Barbarian who can literally see for a mile in clear detail, gets no benefit from this if he were to try to use a Longbow to shoot at something 600ft away. (I mean this mechanics wise though, physically wise, if a person can clearly see for a mile, wouldn't it imply that they would be better at making long range shots?)

[Segev]

If I were you I would throw 'normal' human sight out the window. Since with stuff like Sharpshooter, a Longbow will shoot 600ft without disadvantage, and it makes no mention of having better sight. I mean, you could argue that this feat makes it so that the character who takes them gains the ability to see far enough to aim properly, but considering they can't use this far sight to discern other stuff, I take it to mean that they are just really good at lining up shots to be able to shoot far distances.

To this end I'd also argue that being able to see well wouldn't be a good enough reason to give a character better chances to hit with a long ranged weapon, since as I mentioned, a Totem Barbarian who can literally see for a mile in clear detail, gets no benefit from this if he were to try to use a Longbow to shoot at something 600ft away. (I mean this mechanics wise though, physically wise, if a person can clearly see for a mile, wouldn't it imply that they would be better at making long range shots?)

600 feet is a football field. Unlike an eagle, you couldn't read newsprint from that distance, but you can easily see a guy doing a victory dance in the endzone. Many seats in a stadium are further than 600 feet from the field. An archer shooting a player on the field (aside from being horrifying) would not have difficulty picking his target out, so a feat to let him shoot them without disadvantage hardly requires superhuman sight. Just really good aim.

[elyktsorb]

600 feet is a football field. Unlike an eagle, you couldn't read newsprint from that distance, but you can easily see a guy doing a victory dance in the endzone. Many seats in a stadium are further than 600 feet from the field. An archer shooting a player on the field (aside from being horrifying) would not have difficulty picking his target out, so a feat to let him shoot them without disadvantage hardly requires superhuman sight. Just really good aim.

A football field is 360 ft long. But yeah, I don't think sight has anything to do with the feat

[Segev]

A football field is 360 ft long. But yeah, I don't think sight has anything to do with the feat

I was, to be fair, only thinking about the part between the end zones, not including them, but point taken. A football field is still a good visual representation: you can, standing on the edge of one end zone, just barely hit somebody standing at the edge of the other end zone with your bow. With Disadvantage, unless you have Sharpshooter.