What excites you about playing a cleric?

[Segev]

In particular, a single-class cleric, of any domain. All the "that could be cool" ideas I can come up with involve multiclassing, usually just for a 1-2 level dip into Cleric before getting out and doing something with the picked-up domain features. And I'm not saying I'm "right" about this; I'm just trying to figure out what concepts and characters would be best built as clerics and be exciting, fun ideas.

With Illusionists, I can see a lot of fun using Malleable Illusions with permanent illusion spells past level 10. With warlocks, there's tons of flavor and inspiration in the patron, and Great Old Ones have loads of fun with the Awakened Mind feature (at least to me). Rogues have some interesting and defining abilities, like the Arcane Trickster's unique uses of mage hand.

But any time I think of a cleric concept, I either think of a class that would complement the first few levels of cleric and do the concept better, or I am thinking of a character who happens to be a cleric, with the mechanics of the class being...a side-dish at best.

I like both the Trickster and the Knowledge domains; they have some interesting features...but both feel like they, again, do better as dips. Knowledge has cool stuff all the way up to 14, but nothing that calls to me to build a character around it.

The best I've been able to come up with is a drow matron, with either Knowledge for the late-level abilities to read sites, or Trickster with the Divine Smite's poison being specifically flavored as "spider venom."


Again, I'm not complaining. I can see the utility of the class. It's a full caster, and for relieving the party's falling victim to nasty conditions, there's little better. Divine Smite is great for melee clerics, and Potent Spellcasting is an okay addition to more mage-like clerics (though, admittedly, it goes better with some Sorcerer dipping for metamagic).

But even with Erky Timbers remade as a low-level Tempest Cleric to tag along with the party in my Tomb of Annihilation game (after they rescued him from a Sunless Citadel that I transplanted to Chult to open the campaign with), actually coming up with concepts that sound like fun and interesting characters to play and really say "this is a cleric," or that use cleric mechanics in a way that makes it the go-to class choice, eludes me.

So, I ask you guys: what inspires you about clerics? What interesting things can you come up with to make the class sing for you? To make a character that just says, "yes, I'm a cleric, and I'd be loads of fun to play!"

[47Ace]

I don't really know what sort of answer you want my understanding is that besides the interest in RPing a priest (which clerics aren't necessarily the best at) a big part of the enjoyment of playing a cleric is being a bad-ass melee spellcaster with Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon dealing out lots of damage with the occasional weapon attack or cure wounds as necessary. You could even sit in the middle of combat dodging well preaching the power of your god as Spirit Guardians damages all surrounding foes who keep missing your due to high AC and disadvantage while Spiritual Weapon attacks others. My most memorable experience with the cleric is one of my players hiding around a corner in Curse of Strahd well his Spirit Guardians slowed down vampire spawn and stopped their healing turning what could have been a very deadly fight in to a victory.

TL;DR Spirit Guardians defines Clerics like Fireball does Wizards and extra Attack does Fighters

[Biggstick]

Clerics are the armor wearing swiss army knives of D&D 5E. As prepared spellcasters who can change out the spells available on a daily basis (and having the entire spell list available without having to scribe said spells into a spellbook) means they can almost always solve a problem if they're given the time to do so.

In combat, you can effectively contribute to every combat scenario as a support either at range or just behind the primary melee combatants. Through the use of Toll the Dead, Sacred Flame, Bless, Healing Word, Spiritual Weapon, and Spirit Guardians, every Cleric can make great use of their concentration and contributions during combat.

Outside of combat, Clerics have restorative and divination spells a plenty. Being able to discover and fix a problem through the clever usage of spells outside of combat is one of the most efficient ways one can play a Cleric.

This is available to all flavors of Cleric, no matter their domain.

Now, based off of the domain chosen for Cleric, you can add specific flavor to your Cleric. If you want to bring aoe damage to your Cleric, Light and Tempest are available to you. If you want to bring melee combat support, Forge, Nature, and War are available to you. If you want to add more tools to your repertoire outside of combat scenarios, Knowledge and Trickery are available to you. Obviously, I'm leaving some domains out of the classifications given, but it still proves the point. Specific domains bring the extra bits you want to emphasize for your Cleric to life.

What excites me about playing a Cleric is the fact that I can flexibly solve almost any issue the party has through my choice of prepared spells. Being this flexible in prepared spells is a strength of the Cleric class as a whole. Having it's basic, yet strong combat support options through spells listed above means that you're always going to be able to effectively contribute in combat. It's your spell and build choices that really make the difference when you're outside of combat. Those are really what set the Cleric apart from other classes.

Why Cleric over another class? The only class imo that can compare to the versatility of the Cleric is Druid. No other class has the versatility of the Cleric in regards to spells. Wizards are restricted to only learning 2 spells a level (unless a DM is extremely generous with scrolls). Bards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks are restricted to spells chosen at each level. Clerics and Druids get to choose from their entire spell list, and are able to change it out daily. By picking up spells like: Toll the Dead, Sacred Flame, Bless, Healing Word, Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, a Cleric is able to effectively contribute to any combat and can choose the rest of their prepared spells based off how they want to contribute outside of combat. This versatility is why I choose a Cleric over any other class.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm of the opinion that Clerics would normally be overpowered compared to all of the other options in the game:


Medium Armor and shields by default.
Heavy Armor and Martial Weapons are available as an option.
Full casting.
Very versatile spell list (suck it, Bards)
Very versatile spell choices (suck it, Sorcerers)


Those things would be stupid on a Wizard or a Sorcerer.

The reason Clerics aren't massive hogs for the spotlight is the fact that most of their powers and abilities revolve around making others shine. Things like Spirit Guardians or Guiding Bolt work better when you have allies that work around them.

Paladins are...blah. Your options are "Deal more damage" or "Spend slots for noncombat effects, to later deal mediocre damage", not to mention that the auras are pretty hard to utilize appropriately as a front-liner. Most of the time, it feels like an overly-complicated Fighter with a stick up his bum.
Eldritch Knights might as well just be "I cast Shield" Knights.
Warlocks are cupcakes compared to Clerics, unless you really want to invest everything interesting about you for the least-interesting Patron in the game.
Druids are close, but don't have the support needed to be a consistent melee liner.

Clerics can fit virtually any role you put them in, besides dealing stupid amounts of damage, and I'm not too butthurt by that. Everyone deals damage, but who else can Bless half the party, set a group of badguys on fire, and take a crit to the face?

[ShinyRocks]

My first campaign finished not that long ago. Only level 8 (DM wasn't enjoying the story he'd planned so we agreed to end it), but I was a Nature Cleric and I loved it so much.

The spell versatility is such a huge factor. Obviously there are staples like Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon, but a huge spell list that you get to change overnight shouldn't be underestimated. It let me wrongfoot the DM more than once. There was a fight where two baddies were conducting a ritual that would have Very Bad Consequences. I Banished one of them and ta-da, ritual couldn't complete. A teammate got sucked into a stained glass window. One successful Dispel Magic later and they were out. On another fight, I cast Blindness on the big enemy and then the Paladin could attack with advantage for two big-ass Smites and took her down. Clerics have options.

For simpler fights, it was Spiritual Weapon, Guiding Bolt, Shillelagh and smack around. But being able to think 'hmm, what will we do today?' and have an answer to it just at the cost of a long rest was so satisfying. We had a spying mission - great, I'll prepare Clairvoyance and Sending. We're fighting lots of little dudes, well I'm a Nature Cleric so I always have Spike Growth prepared, oops, they ran through it and are already dead, shame.

There's not much that makes you feel as vital to a team as throwing a Healing Word at a teammate who's failed one or two death saving throws.

Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians are just plain fun. Powerful abilities that you get to flavour as you like (DM permitting) - and for SW, a regular, helpful use for your Bonus Action (when you're not casting Healing Word). My SW was a scythe. My Guardians were semi-transparent green and gold woodland creatures - foxes, deer, squirrels, birds.

Turn Undead and the other Channels are situational, but can be huge.

I'm playing a Wizard now, but I've got at least two Cleric ideas that I'd love to play. A dwarven Forge Cleric wading into melee is a thousand miles from a high elf Knowledge Cleric that avoids battle and mostly buffs and heals, but they both have that tasty Cleric flavour.

I love Clerics.

[Daithi]

I do not like playing clerics. The class as a whole just does not appeal to me in the least.

However, we had a girl that played with our group for a while, and she played a Light Cleric. Yes, she served a critical role in providing healing and other buff magic. However, it was her lighting everything on fire and being a general pyromaniac that made her character really cool.

Her character's name was Spitfire, and if you've ever heard the Prodigies song called Spitfire or their other song called Fire Starter then you can just imagine these songs playing in the background as she literally lit up the battlefield. (Or use Minor Illusion to actually have one of these songs playing in background.)

[Segev]

I do not like playing clerics. The class as a whole just does not appeal to me in the least.

However, we had a girl that played with our group for a while, and she played a Light Cleric. Yes, she served a critical role in providing healing and other buff magic. However, it was her lighting everything on fire and being a general pyromaniac that made her character really cool.

Her character's name was Spitfire, and if you've ever heard the Prodigies song called Spitfire or their other song called Fire Starter then you can just imagine these songs playing in the background as she literally lit up the battlefield. (Or use Minor Illusion to actually have one of these songs playing in background.)

That's pretty cool. Just, having that flavor, that twist on the character.

Please do keep them coming. I'm trying to wrap my head around ways to take the mechanics that are on the page and make interesting characters out of them using the Cleric class, and this is helping.

[Skylivedk]

Watching my God desert me as I die a gruesome death.

[JellyPooga]

Honestly? Nothing. Nothing about the Cleric is exciting for me.

From a design perspective, there's really nothing wrong with them. Quite the opposite, really; they're one of the better designed classes in the game.

From a power perspective, they're great. Full caster says it all and then you get to add armour and weapons too. No complaints here either.

For me, though, the notion of a holy man (and make no mistake, whichever way you cut it, the Cleric has to be a holy man of some description) just doesn't inspire an interesting character. It's just too one-dimensional. The Fighter? Could be anyone. The Wizard? Just contemplating different approaches to magic gives you variety. Rogue? Do I really need to extrapolate? Even the Druid, Monk and Paladin have depths of variety in who and what they are.

The Cleric, though? Whether you're an Urchin, an Acolyte or an Outlander, nothing changes that one fact...that you're not playing a character that has an agenda of their own. You're not playing a character that has much, if any, power or agency of their own; it all belongs to their patron deity. I don't want to play the sidekick to the main act and the Cleric is, has been and always will be an empty vessel.

For some players that won't be and isn't a problem. For me...the lack of independence is too great a hurdle to overcome.

[Sam113097]

As others have mentioned, clerics are extremely versatile, and are so flexible that they can even change playstyle in the middle of a campaign, if they want to. Additionally, the RP can be a lot of fun if you get creative. In my current campaign, our Trickery Cleric (single-classed) was a street urchin that had been born with a spark of divine magic. The local church tried to force him to train as a priest, but he escaped and hit the road. For his first five levels or so, he was basically a Rogue, using his illusions, skills, and Invoke Duplicity to sneak and help the party as a whole be sneakier as well. At about level five, my player decided he wanted to change it up a bit, so he started taking more melee-oriented spells and started wading into battle with Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon. (He RPed this as his cleric beginning to embrace his divine powers/responsibility). In another campaign, we had two clerics in the party, but the class is so versatile that it didn't even seem like it: our War Cleric was a fantastic frontline fighter, and the Light Cleric was doing ranged damage like a Warlock or Wizard.

[Kane0]

The thing that interests me is typically the domain powers, usually the channels.

[kazaryu]

The reason Clerics aren't massive hogs for the spotlight is the fact that most of their powers and abilities revolve around making others shine. Things like Spirit Guardians or Guiding Bolt work better when you have allies that work around them.



this. right here is why i love clerics. i mean, i love wizards too, but clerics are just mmmmm.

i don't really care if outwardly its acknowledged that im the glue holding the team together. but every time, in combat, i do some small thing that just ****s over the encounters difficulty (like casting freedom of movement on the dude trapped by the roper, or casting spirit guardians and standing in a choke point, or self cast sanctuary as i calmly walk up a mountain that hill giants are chucking rocks down..) it gives me a nice warm feeling. like, obviously im not saying i am the only reason my party wins fights. But knowing that im contributing to basically everyone else instead of just contributing my own damage. mmm, idk, i love that.

you just have to be comfortable playing a support (or, i mean tbf clerics don't make terrible dps for short adventuring days so...if thats your thing)

[ZorroGames]

Simple. It was my first surviving character in 1974 when I started playing. Combat spell-caster who could heal. Magic using PJ (Pararescue Jumper) for those of us Air Force types from Vietnam War era.

[JumboWheat01]

Even if I haven't played them quite as much, I do have a love of Leader-type characters, those who support others in the party rather than being the king of the mountain themselves. While both Bards and Clerics excel in those role, Clerics do have a lot of flexibility, and with so many domain options and deities, you have a lot of customization for a single class. A War Cleric of Tyr is going to be a very different character from a Trickery Cleric of Mask. Heck, a Trickery Cleric of Mask is prolly going to be different than a Trickery Cleric of Garl Glittergold.

[Ogre Mage]

The domains make cleric a hugely flexible class which is capable of almost anything.

If you want to play a tank on the front lines, the tempest, war and forge domains can do that.

If you want to play a ranged blaster, the light domain can do that.

If you want to play a pseudo-wizard, the arcana (and to a lesser degree the knowledge domain) can do that.

If you want to play a sneaky cleric, the trickery domain can do that.

If you want to play the archetypal healer, the life domain can do that.

Others have remarked on the tremendous flexibility of having access to your entire spell list which you can change out on a daily basis. And your relationship with your deity gives you a great role-playing tool. How do you feel about being the chosen one of a God? Humbled? Arrogant? Grateful? Power mad? Resentful? How does he or she speak to you? Do you fit in with the mainstream thought of your church or not? As we have seen in real life, people can interpret religious tenants differently.

[Drascin]

Personally, I enjoy playing characters that are part of something bigger than themselves. Some people feel it's depersonalizing, but personally I find that you can learn a lot about a person from which causes they choose to support and how they go about it. You can be a hardass zealot, you can be quietly confident, you can simply be and happen to align with your cause - but whichever way you go, as a Cleric you're by necessity someone who really, really believes in an ideal larger than your own life. And that's basically free narrative real estate!

Plus, well. In terms of operating, a Cleric, in a way, is often basically a god's loyal MI6 operative - your chief has given you a mission, and great powers and free rein to see it through. Now git'er done, but remember, if you mess up too badly, they might take your badge!

[Lvl45DM!]

In particular, a single-class cleric, of any domain.

I havent played a cleric in 5e but my 1e 2e and 3.5e clerics are/were all great fun characters because they were clerics.

1e my cleric started out kinda boring, priest of St Cuthbert. But theres a buried rule in 1e that if you travel the planes your god cannot give you power if the plane is too far away. So when we had an extended sojourn in the Fire Plane my cleric lost contact with his god. I got to RP the devastating loss of my character's purpose of being and go through the process of finding a new god, which revolved around finding a new philosophy then looking for a god that would help me. Soon I became the cleric of Joramy, fire goddess, and my strait-laced cleric became a fiery evangelist. Because the change happened in-game it gave it so much weight. And as the campaign progresses Joramy has become more of an ascendent goddess, with more of the common folk being drawn to her in troubled times. I sought out fire spells and items and became the main blaster of my party as the wizard was more support and trickery.

2e my dwarven fighter-cleric started off as a sidekick to another party member. My halfling assassin had died and the drow fighter-mage got the Crown of Evil, so i became her seneschal, worshipper of Lloth. Now she also worshipped Lolth but was LE, while i was CE. So we had many rousing philosophical arguments about how to best serve the Queen of Chaos. Obviously i was a front line fighter but 2e had some fun summon spells too. Stones to Spiders, rather than Sticks to Snakes and I'd Beckon in a Yochlol on occasion.

3.5 had my svirfneblin cleric of UL, basically the overgod of the world we played in. She was in her 40s in gnome years, and I played as a sweet and wise motherly character to the rest of the party. But goddamn fighting undead was fun. HEAL for 120 damage on a ghost Hydra was one of the best moments. But also the dashing ranger taking me for a dance at the ball was sweet. I rode the Dragonborns back and threw heals and buffs, and earthshaking spells too. Such variety to her magic!

Then Lunastis my insane cleric-rogue of Mara. He only lasted 3 sessions. Sneaking ahead of the party and backstabbing all the devils so they turn and murdered me was...not a top strategy haha. But he was probably my favourite character to build.

And lastly Haag. In 3.5 the Hunger domain gave you a bite attack. Cannibal Half-Giant Grappling Cleric of Mammon. I would paralyze enemies then start eating them on the battlefield. I did some stuff to gain a swallow whole attack and died when i swallowed the rogue who was under a confusion spell. 6 sneak attacks to my internal organs ended his career. But i played him as a cult leader. We went to a city, i left the party, entered a seedy tavern or brothel and used Enthrall to gain converts, and then used them as sacrifces to make minor magic items.


Clerics are versatile! Thats what excites me about clerics.


Personally, I enjoy playing characters that are part of something bigger than themselves. Some people feel it's depersonalizing, but personally I find that you can learn a lot about a person from which causes they choose to support and how they go about it. You can be a hardass zealot, you can be quietly confident, you can simply be and happen to align with your cause - but whichever way you go, as a Cleric you're by necessity someone who really, really believes in an ideal larger than your own life. And that's basically free narrative real estate!

Plus, well. In terms of operating, a Cleric, in a way, is often basically a god's loyal MI6 operative - your chief has given you a mission, and great powers and free rein to see it through. Now git'er done, but remember, if you mess up too badly, they might take your badge!

Free Narrative Real Estate is also the correct answer. Its like a warlocks Patron but better defined in the lore

[Segev]

Heck, a Trickery Cleric of Mask is prolly going to be different than a Trickery Cleric of Garl Glittergold.

How so?

Just spell selection? Pure role play? Feat choice? If RP, how does either character be more than a stereotype of his deity’s followers?

These are not meant to be leading not accusatory questions. I’m not saying all clerics are stereotypes. But they’re hard for me to define as people when I’m designing them. And I think it is the question of how to make them about more than just their god.

[MrStabby]

So characterwise, I think its the cause. Some serve a kingdom. Some serve a guild, some serve no one but themselves. You serve a literal god.

The spells that a cleric gets feel world-building at higher levels. Take hallow for example: great for building your own temple and becoming more invested in the world. Or create food to feed a starving town... there are a lot of tools you have at your disposal ti interact with the world and your interaction is more constructive than "I hit it with my axe". I am not saying other classes cant do a bit of this, but clerics can certainly leave a mark on the world.

Then you get cool abilities - channel divinity is really cool as a short rest ability that you quickly get multiple times per day it pushes you to do some thematic action for your domain... or to totally screw over undead. You have a niche in which you can fit and a place for you to shine. Divine intervention used to be an ability I hated - now I love it. Whatever is thematic for your god you can do to the world (with DM approval); there are just so many really cool things you can do with this. Things like antimagic fields don't work with artifacts or gods magic - I think most DMs I know rule that Divine Intervention qualifies as a god's power.

Clerics are pretty versatile with a good mix of healing, buffing, debuffing (although sadly not really enough of this) and damaging spells and some domains add some nice control elements as well. With domain spells clerics have the most spells prepared of any class (although shout out to land druid here as well) which means that they get to step out each morning with a plethora of things they can do.

Clerics also get a pretty dense set of abilities that actually see play in their 1st 10 levels. It feels a rich class because of this (ok the next 10 levels kind of suck, but it works well till it starts to drag).

In combat I like clerics because it never feels like you are short of things to do: you get your action but also spiritual weapon is a solid bonus action spell, spirit guardians triggers on enemies turns... it never feels like it has been that long since you did something. Personally I have a love for the nature cleric for an awesome bonus action as well.

So cleric isn't the most powerful class. It isn't the flashest class but it gets things done in its own style. It is a very fun class.

[Biggstick]

How so?

Just spell selection? Pure role play? Feat choice? If RP, how does either character be more than a stereotype of his deity’s followers?

These are not meant to be leading not accusatory questions. I’m not saying all clerics are stereotypes. But they’re hard for me to define as people when I’m designing them. And I think it is the question of how to make them about more than just their god.

Garl Glittergold is the primary deity of Gnomes. All Gnomes pay homage of some sort to Glittergold, as he encompasses traits all Gnomes deem as important to the essence of being a Gnome. Clerics of Garl Glittergold represent the primary deity of the Gnomes, and would be treated as such.

Mask is a deity of thieves. People do not typically openly worship Mask. If you're a Cleric of Mask, you're likely to have to hide your faith, as society is likely to look down upon those who worship Mask.

As for how PCs can be different from typically worshipers of said deity, the opening flavor text of the Cleric in the PHB gives you some guidance on how you can do that. Xanathar's also provides some interesting information on how you can differentiate your Cleric from another. Ogre Mage also talks about some great ways one can RP your connection to your deity.

[Laserlight]

My CoS character was a Tempest cleric. Contrary to the "you're an empty vessel for your god, with no agency", my approach was that as an Exalted and Chosen of the Goddess, I had power and authority, but also the responsibility. I was the one who handled most negotiation (nobody else wanted to be the Face), I provided leadership, I never let anyone else see my uncertainties (unless they read the campaign diary, where it was all laid bare), I made Judgments and gave death sentences (although the rogue did the actual killing because Tempests are AoE casters, lousy at single-target).

It was a lot of fun. As a Tempest, I had heavy armor and got to lead the assaults, and handle AoEs. As a cleric in general, I had access to the whole spell list, so I could customize my load out depending on whether we expected to need stealth, social, heavy combat, movement, whatever. I may not be able to solve the problem today but I can solve anything tomorrow. Lots of options.

[Man_Over_Game]

How so?

Just spell selection? Pure role play? Feat choice? If RP, how does either character be more than a stereotype of his deity’s followers?

These are not meant to be leading not accusatory questions. I’m not saying all clerics are stereotypes. But they’re hard for me to define as people when I’m designing them. And I think it is the question of how to make them about more than just their god.

Start with the mechanics. Work backwards from there to decide what kind of character would fit those particular types of skills. Then have a deity that matches the character you made.

For example, I could look at the Trickery Domain and decide that I want to make an Assassin-enabler. Like a guide for other Assassins. Someone else decides that the Trickery domain would suit their concept for a Prankster.

I then pick a deity that would be supportive of Assassins, and my friend picks a deity that'd be supportive of Pranksters. We both have an entire spell list of powers to choose from, as well as multiclassing options and feats, so there's enough opportunity to pick powers from without really stepping on one another's toes. He uses his illusions to get into trouble, I use mine to get rid of it.

You have, in essence, the difference between a Ranger and a Bard in ideals. Few people would confuse those two.

A Life Cleric could represent:

Life
Light
War (Heavy Armor mastery, bonus weapon damage, enables himself and others to fight more)
Control over Death (Resurrection and Animation are part of the same school for a reason, and healing is just the first step)
Luck (HP is best represented as Luck instead of Meat. It doesn't matter if you're a skinny Wizard or a thicc Barbarian, the same thing happens when your Luck runs out)


A Light Cleric could represent:

Light
Fire
Purification (Light and Fire are often considered means of eradicating evil and illness)
Wrath (Blinding Light and Burning Fire, pretty obvious)
Punishment (Most of the bonus features revolve around punishing enemies for their choices, and Fire is considered a punishing source of power on both sides of the afterlife)


Start with the mechanics first, work your way back, and you'll find there are a lot of opportunities for personality.

As a small aside, Clerics do not need to be avatars in their god's image. They need to take action on behalf of their gods, and maybe work towards the pursuit of being similar to their gods, but they have their own personalities and lives.

Personally, I'd feel that a god would appreciate someone working hard to further the pursuits of their deity, rather than one that does so accidentally. Even our own religions hold that belief, such as with the story of the Widow’s Offering in Christianity, or the entirety of Buddhism.

[D+1]

So, I ask you guys: what inspires you about clerics? What interesting things can you come up with to make the class sing for you? To make a character that just says, "yes, I'm a cleric, and I'd be loads of fun to play!"All the things that aren't just about being more dominant than the next PC in combat. In particular, having a ready-made set of goals and interests to work with even before I begin to individualize the character for myself. Nothing wrong with a PC that just brings the beatdown for what that's worth, but IME focusing on that as the best part about any PC wears thin pretty quickly. The best characters are always going to be memorable whether they're actually optimized battle dominators or not. Being great at combat, mechanically versatile at addressing threats and solving problems is tasty icing to have on the cake, but it's rarely the ingredient that I START baking with...

Honestly, what has always inspired me more than a choice of particular class, race, etc. is a miniature or an illustration of a character - a characters appearance.

[Zetakya]

A Light Cleric could represent:

Light
Fire
Purification (Light and Fire are often considered means of eradicating evil and illness)
Wrath (Blinding Light and Burning Fire, pretty obvious)
Punishment (Most of the bonus features revolve around punishing enemies for their choices, and Fire is considered a punishing source of power on both sides of the afterlife)



I wrote up a Light Cleric once who was seeker of truth; for her, Light was a metaphor for Truth, Justice and Enlightenment, and she was naturally drawn to a Deity of Justice and Law. As well as being very heavy on the Divination spells she was a pretty good "face" thanks to Guidance (& later Enhance Ability), Tongues and a background as an Investigator.

[thorr-kan]

Simple. It was my first surviving character in 1974 when I started playing. Combat spell-caster who could heal. Magic using PJ (Pararescue Jumper) for those of us Air Force types from Vietnam War era.Where's the Like button?!

Sometimes, you just want to play a character who's a Big Danged Hero. Cleric can scratch that itch in so many ways.

My favorite cleric was a 2E half-orc priest/thief, specializing in poison and assassinations. I played him as a temple enforcer. Somehow, he became party leader.

A lot of people keep mentioning cleric's flexibility. And that's the draw. You've got a built-in set of RP parameters and hooks. You've got a choice of superpowers. You've got decent combat suite and decent skill selection. And you use all this to determine how you serve your god. Your god doesn't make you; you *choose* this. Now get out there, and choose some more.

[Ogre Mage]

I wrote up a Light Cleric once who was seeker of truth; for her, Light was a metaphor for Truth, Justice and Enlightenment, and she was naturally drawn to a Deity of Justice and Law. As well as being very heavy on the Divination spells she was a pretty good "face" thanks to Guidance (& later Enhance Ability), Tongues and a background as an Investigator.

Light is often a symbol of goodness, truth and hope. It is my favorite domain and I've played light clerics in that vein. But one I played was far from that.

I played a LE cleric of Kossuth, the Lord of the Elemental Plane of Fire. She saw life in the most stark black and white terms. The world was full of corruption and wickedness and Kossuth had divinely inspired her to cleanse that corruption. And while that included demons, devils, undead, aberrations, etc., she also would fireball a group of diseased people to stop the spread of plague. The corruption must be cleansed! Coronavirus patients would get no mercy from her. Behavior she found to be "wicked" would be harshly and sometimes lethally punished. Corruption must be cleansed, regardless of the cost of life. Her catchphrase was "You will be purified," right before she obliterated someone.

She saw herself as a good person and in her mind she was doing good. That was perhaps the scariest thing about it.

Zetakya's example and mine are another example of how two clerics with the same domain can have radically different views.

[Cheesegear]

So, I ask you guys: what inspires you about clerics?

Mostly, it depends on the deity. The first step on building a Cleric, is finding a Deity you actually like, and would be willing to proselytise for. Now, a lot of DMs wont ever force you to roleplay, but some do. And providing you've got a decent Deity (who the DM can decently roleplay, when needs must). That's where you start.

Couldn't a Fighter also worship and/or pray to Helm? Why do you have to be a Cleric of Helm?

Because a Cleric literally gets magic Powers when they pray. It's different.
And unlike a Paladin, you aren't restricted by Vows... Again, some DMs force you to roleplay, others don't (Mine does, and I do).

If you can't find a Deity who fits the kind of character you would like to roleplay as...Then straight off the bat, you probably don't want to be a Cleric.

Mechanically, as has been mentioned already; Clerics can do anything, but not everything.
Fighters...Fight, and Barbarians Rage.

A Cleric, though?
You want to deal AoE damage? Got it.
You want to deal single target burst damage? Got it.
You want to buff your party? Got it.
You want to debuff the hostiles? Got it.
You want to heal your party? Got it.

You want to Tank? You can.
You want to Stealth? You can.
You want to Talk? You can.

You want to sit in the back and do nothing at all? You can. Please don't. Your versatility is a huge boon to the party and they need you to do whatever you're doing.

The ability to switch your Spells, from a very good List, each Long Rest, regardless of Domain, is really, really good.
Your Knowledge Cleric still has access to Cure Wounds and Bless, and Spiritual Weapon and Spirits, and a few times per day, you can do anything you want.

[Evaar]

Loki as portrayed in the Marvel movies is a Trickery Cleric. His main trick of creating an illusory double is their Channel Divinity. Of course he’s also a god of trickery, so I guess he’s a cleric of himself. No reason a player character can’t do that.

[Daithi]

Loki as portrayed in the Marvel movies is a Trickery Cleric. His main trick of creating an illusory double is their Channel Divinity. Of course he’s also a god of trickery, so I guess he’s a cleric of himself. No reason a player character can’t do that.

You could make the case that his Marvel brother Thor is a Tempest Domain (or War Domain) cleric of himself as well.

[Laserlight]

Mostly, it depends on the deity. The first step on building a Cleric, is finding a Deity you actually like, and would be willing to proselytise for.

Not even that, necessarily. In the background my Tempest used, nobody proselytized. Everyone knew the Five Gods were real, and either you were Chosen or you weren't. And people got Chosen whether they wanted it or not. Any "trying to get support for X instead of Y" was political, not religious.

And you can certainly get a cleric who is reluctant about the whole thing, doesn't like his deity, had other plans.

[JumboWheat01]

Loki as portrayed in the Marvel movies is a Trickery Cleric. His main trick of creating an illusory double is their Channel Divinity. Of course he’s also a god of trickery, so I guess he’s a cleric of himself. No reason a player character can’t do that.

Indeed, you can totally be a cleric of an ideal in some settings, no god required. Just not the Realms, they're very picky on that. No divine magic at all if you don't follow a god!

A godless cleric would be another interesting way to roleplay.

[Eldariel]

Being everything. Screw Bards, Clerics are the ultimate Jacks of All Trades. They can screw enemies, they can buff allies, they can nuke, they can smash, they can bash, they can clonk, spank 'n' tank, they can control space, they can screw with enemy control, they can change shape, they can screw casting, they've also been able to gain access to thief things (Find Traps way back in the day, then Guidance of the Avatar and Divine Insight, now Guidance and Enhance Ability), they can literally do everything. And that's been their shtick for...forever. Since 2e at least. Kinda like a single class Bard.

[Demonslayer666]

I love playing a cleric because they are extremely useful. You can fight, cast useful spells (and you have all the spells), save people's lives, and get guidance from your deity if everything else fails by praying.

Clerics make the party much more capable by adding the ability to keep going and not have to return to town.

Of course this depends on your play style. If your character dies and the DM just lets you make a new character on the spot, Revivify isn't as useful.

[Segev]

I love playing a cleric because they are extremely useful. You can fight, cast useful spells (and you have all the spells), save people's lives, and get guidance from your deity if everything else fails by praying.

Clerics make the party much more capable by adding the ability to keep going and not have to return to town.

Of course this depends on your play style. If your character dies and the DM just lets you make a new character on the spot, Revivify isn't as useful.

While old-school play assumed churning through characters, I don't think that's been an assumption in the 22 years I've been playing; people are often attached to their characters, emotionally. They're invested in their stories, not just the hard work getting to that level and getting that cool gear. So I think even if replacement characters are easy to come by (to minimize time a player is left out of the game), revivify will be well-beloved by most play groups.

It's especially nice, I imagine, in a party with a Zealot barbarian. Now, even if the barbarian manages to get killed (which, believe me, is nontrivial), he's back up as soon as the cleric gets to him! No gp cost, just a 3rd level spell slot.

[da newt]

I think there is a ton of flexibility wrt how you choose to follow your deity. Look at real world examples: There are thousands and thousands of different folks who claim to be working 'in Jesus' name' but all doing it differently. You can choose to be super rigid - black and white - right or wrong (and therefore PUNISHED) or more philosophical - Big Lebowski-esque - to each there own man - just be a good dude - go with the flow ... From an RP perspective there is so much you can do with a Cleric. Or create a Friar Tuck - beers and whatever ...

And then there is a mechanical chassis and subclasses that you can do most anything with. They are also pretty darned good at lots of things, vice experts in any one thing, and are better support than centers of attention (usually). I don't know that they are the best class at any one thing (maybe healing), but they can do most anything well.

[da newt]

Being everything. Screw Bards, Clerics are the ultimate Jacks of All Trades. They can screw enemies, they can buff allies, they can nuke, they can smash, they can bash, they can clonk, spank 'n' tank, they can control space, they can screw with enemy control, they can change shape, they can screw casting, they've also been able to gain access to thief things (Find Traps way back in the day, then Guidance of the Avatar and Divine Insight, now Guidance and Enhance Ability), they can literally do everything. And that's been their shtick for...forever. Since 2e at least. Kinda like a single class Bard.

Depending on their specific religious dogma, they may actually be prohibited from screwing anything ...

[ZorroGames]

Depending on their specific religious dogma, they may actually be prohibited from screwing anything ...

TBH, never seen that in 5e. Not saying it does not happen, and might be RP gold, but just IME. 🤔

0D&D, yeah, that happened. 🧐

AD&D 2nd, Priests, no comment. 🙄

[KOLE]

A lot of seriously solid advice here. My two shiny copper pieces, if you're going to play a full caster, just start looking through their spell list and see what excites you. If none of the Cleric spells excite you, well, I'm surprised, but then move on down the line and find something that does. I'm going to play a Cleric next time I find a DM, and just the idea of wading into battle with Spiritual Guardians up while I whack fools with my Spiritual Weapon is mechanically and thematically VERY exciting.

I have struggled in the past with finding an interesting deity, but when you find a domain that excites you, there's plenty of options to look for. Just find the one that excites you, once again. That's the most important thing. I you can't find a deity that lights your fire, just put Cleric back on the shelf until you can find it.

[MrStabby]

A lot of seriously solid advice here. My two shiny copper pieces, if you're going to play a full caster, just start looking through their spell list and see what excites you. If none of the Cleric spells excite you, well, I'm surprised, but then move on down the line and find something that does. I'm going to play a Cleric next time I find a DM, and just the idea of wading into battle with Spiritual Guardians up while I whack fools with my Spiritual Weapon is mechanically and thematically VERY exciting.

I have struggled in the past with finding an interesting deity, but when you find a domain that excites you, there's plenty of options to look for. Just find the one that excites you, once again. That's the most important thing. I you can't find a deity that lights your fire, just put Cleric back on the shelf until you can find it.

I think you have highlighted some of the problems with the clerics as well. You name two spells. Pretty much the two exciting spells in the list. If you want to play something a bit different to what your table has seen before then if you have seen a cleric - don't play one. A fighter can be a bit different depending on weapon choice. If you are playing a wizard there are a lot of different spells you might be excited by and that are the reason you want to play. My gripe with the cleric is that there are too few exciting spells. You never have to pick between them. If you are going to play a cleric then you really, really need to love the domain element because the core will leave you feeling like a mechanical clone of every other cleric ever played in 5th edition unless the domain is embraced.

[Man_Over_Game]

Indeed, you can totally be a cleric of an ideal in some settings, no god required. Just not the Realms, they're very picky on that. No divine magic at all if you don't follow a god!

A godless cleric would be another interesting way to roleplay.

One interesting concept are Battleminds from 4e. They're essentially atheists that believe that no god is worth believing in... other than themselves.

Although they were a Psionic tank that scaled off of Constitution, so...their ideals made sense, if at least to themselves.

[Biggstick]

I think you have highlighted some of the problems with the clerics as well. You name two spells. Pretty much the two exciting spells in the list. If you want to play something a bit different to what your table has seen before then if you have seen a cleric - don't play one. A fighter can be a bit different depending on weapon choice. If you are playing a wizard there are a lot of different spells you might be excited by and that are the reason you want to play. My gripe with the cleric is that there are too few exciting spells. You never have to pick between them. If you are going to play a cleric then you really, really need to love the domain element because the core will leave you feeling like a mechanical clone of every other cleric ever played in 5th edition unless the domain is embraced.

If combat is the only thing that's exciting to you, I can agree that the most offensive option for any Cleric chassis (Spirit Guardians/Spiritual Weapon) might sound boring. This is leaving out domain considerations, as a Tempest or Light Cleric has quite powerful alternatives to the above combination.

Let's be real though, a Fighter is going to pick up a combat feat of some sort (let's use GWM as our example) and use any features they have to maximize use of GWM. What actions do you think are going to be taken 95% or higher of the time by a GWM Fighter? The Attack Action. Where is the variety in that?

Wizards are going to do the same thing. They're going to potentially have a few options prepared for combat, but are going to typically utilize 2 offensive cantrips at most, while using 1-3 primary concentration buff/debuff spells. Throw Fireball in there for damage as well. Sure, they have tons of different spells, but certain spells on the Wizard spell list are going to be chosen over others the same way Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon are chosen over others.

If you want to play a different Cleric (or Wizard) as to what your table has seen, your spell selection for combat doesn't need to be different. It's the spells you choose to have outside of combat that really make the difference. These are the spells that will define both a Wizard and a Cleric imo.

As personal experience, I've only ever played in a single campaign that had a combat ratio that was higher then 50% combat, and it was my first campaign I ever played in. Every campaign afterwards, most sessions were spent out of combat situations. This means the strength of the Cleric (and Wizard) can be utilized to greater effect. This is also where the Cleric can differentiate themselves compared to every other Cleric. Preparing Silence on a Cleric can allow for any Cleric domain, even those heavy armor wearing ones, to sneak past an area (which might be assumed to only be the territory of the Trickery Cleric). Enhance Ability allows one to be good themselves at checks or allows an ally to be good at checks. Create Water can be used to provide water to someone in need. This is only looking at a few of the low level options available to Clerics; you only need to look at the higher level spells to see the higher level of world impact they can bring.

Clerics have the ability to impact the world in different ways through the use of their spells. This strength might seem limited if you're only using combat to solve your problems, but if you're open to interacting with the world outside of drawing blood, Clerics take the cake.

[Man_Over_Game]

I think you have highlighted some of the problems with the clerics as well. You name two spells. Pretty much the two exciting spells in the list. If you want to play something a bit different to what your table has seen before then if you have seen a cleric - don't play one. A fighter can be a bit different depending on weapon choice. If you are playing a wizard there are a lot of different spells you might be excited by and that are the reason you want to play. My gripe with the cleric is that there are too few exciting spells. You never have to pick between them. If you are going to play a cleric then you really, really need to love the domain element because the core will leave you feeling like a mechanical clone of every other cleric ever played in 5th edition unless the domain is embraced.

This kinda confused me. Clerics are also able to get martial weapon proficiencies like a Fighter. With something like War Cleric, you could output some serious damage with something like GWM, almost as much as a Fighter:


Cast Bless at the start of the fight. This turns the -5 from GWM into a -2.5.
Use guaranteed +10 on a -5/+10 strike to nail a kill the first time that you roll badly, using the Bonus Action from GWM to swing for free.
Next turn, attack with the -5/+10, unless you're sure the creature is about to die. If you miss, spend a use of your War Priest feature to swing again, preferably with a standard blow to soften the target and kill them next turn (which gets you your free Bonus Action from GWM again).
Rinse-repeat.


A few spells I'd say are worth notice:

Suggestion: Great for provoking Opportunity Attacks
Guiding Bolt: 14 average damage and Advantage on your ally's next attack, with 120 range.
Sanctuary: Bonus Action defensive spell that doesn't cost Concentration.
Hold Person: Paralyze a target
Warding Bond: Divide damage between you and an ally. Double points if you have Heavy Armor Master



At level 5, you're talking about things like Revivify, Animate Dead, and Glyph of Warding.

And that's before talking about the class spells that you can use.

[KOLE]

I think you have highlighted some of the problems with the clerics as well. You name two spells. Pretty much the two exciting spells in the list. If you want to play something a bit different to what your table has seen before then if you have seen a cleric - don't play one. A fighter can be a bit different depending on weapon choice. If you are playing a wizard there are a lot of different spells you might be excited by and that are the reason you want to play. My gripe with the cleric is that there are too few exciting spells. You never have to pick between them. If you are going to play a cleric then you really, really need to love the domain element because the core will leave you feeling like a mechanical clone of every other cleric ever played in 5th edition unless the domain is embraced.

I was going to reply to this, but then MOG said it better, so I'll just say, what he said. Another cookie for MOG. That plate's getting full.

EDIT: Will say Sanctuary is a SERIOUSLY underappreciated spell. It fits in that class of first level spell that's ALWAYS relevant. It's so good, IMO, it doesn't need to last the full minute to be useful. Let's say your raging Barbarian buddy is holding the front line by himself, reckless attacking, and is getting mobbed by mooks. Thanks to going Reckless, they've set themselves up to get fairly wrecked before their next time. Without having to step into the mob (30 ft range!), you put up Sanctuary. Most mooks don't have great Wisdom saves. You just bypassed their advantage and probably shut down most of their attacks. If it's ranged attacks, of course, you or another party member might have to eat that damage, so you have to know when it's appropriate, but you've probably got the AC to eat a couple of hits. And if the Barbarian's alone, all those melee attacks have no where to go, wasting their action. Plus, it's a damn bonus action, you can still snipe with a cantrip while you're at it, or wade in and take a swipe. Even if your Barb opens up and attacks on their next turn, "wasting" the spells duration, I still think it was worth it.

Not to mention it can help protect innocent bystanders, which is why I kept it prepared as a goody-two-shoes Cleric in a one shot. And if you're just sitting on the sidelines keeping bless up, healing, and buffing, it works great to cast it on yourself.

[ZorroGames]

I think you have highlighted some of the problems with the clerics as well. You name two spells. Pretty much the two exciting spells in the list. If you want to play something a bit different to what your table has seen before then if you have seen a cleric - don't play one. A fighter can be a bit different depending on weapon choice. If you are playing a wizard there are a lot of different spells you might be excited by and that are the reason you want to play. My gripe with the cleric is that there are too few exciting spells. You never have to pick between them. If you are going to play a cleric then you really, really need to love the domain element because the core will leave you feeling like a mechanical clone of every other cleric ever played in 5th edition unless the domain is embraced.

For Combat sure there are optimal spells, just as there are optimal feats for combat as well as optimal weapons for fighters, damage spells for arcane casters, sneak attack for Rogues, D&D is, or at least should be, more than combat even ignoring RP.

Honestly, this is a self limiting view of Clerics. As bad as “Clerics are Healbots” only worse.

[Pex]

I started playing clerics way back when in 2E because when I didn't the player who was the cleric was a jerk. Every time. As for the class itself I started to enjoy it for its own sake because I had the fun of combat mechanics and the fun of spell mechanics. It expanded in 3E until finally in Pathfinder playing an Oracle of Life I reached the ultimate of personal fun playing a cleric as I always dreamed of doing. The mechanics were just perfect. With 5E I do enjoy the cleric, but now I have other options of the fun of combat mechanics and the fun of spell mechanics cleric isn't the only way to have it. Also, I've long since learned I don't have to play with jerks and enjoyed many fellow players who played the cleric playing with the party instead of against or in spite of.

[Man_Over_Game]

I was going to reply to this, but then MOG said it better, so I'll just say, what he said. Another cookie for MOG. That plate's getting full.

Love you, bro.

[ZorroGames]

I was going to reply to this, but then MOG said it better, so I'll just say, what he said. Another cookie for MOG. That plate's getting full.

Yes, I agree. Chocolate Chip, Peanut Butter, or Macaroon?

[KOLE]

Love you, bro.

Right back at you, it's good to be back.

[Man_Over_Game]

Yes, I agree. Chocolate Chip, Peanut Butter, or Macaroon?

I am a man of culture. A Cookie Connoisseur, if you will.

And as such, I base the value of cookies strictly on their ability to absorb milk, as well as how much flavor and body it retains after absorbing the aforementioned milk. Everything else is secondary.

From my experience with cookie cultures, Peanut Butter absorbs as much milk as your big toe, while Macaroons are far too delicate and bulky for the submersion process.

Chocolate Chip all the way.

[Segev]

Even if I'm still having trouble with coming up with original concepts that sound both fun and interesting AND like they are best done with clerics, this thread has given me some ideas on tweaking the NPC cleric my party in my Tomb of Annihilation game carts around. ...I might regret, as the runner of monsters, giving him sancturary to cast on the barbarian. >_>


I am a man of culture. A Cookie Connoisseur, if you will.

And as such, I base the value of cookies strictly on their ability to absorb milk, as well as how much flavor and body it retains after absorbing said milk. Everything else is secondary.

From my experience with cookie cultures, Peanut Butter absorbs as much milk as your big toe, while Macaroons are far too delicate and bulky for the submersion process.

Chocolate Chip all the way.

While there is a point at which structural integrity suffers too much, I have found oreos to be particuarly good milk-dipping cookies.

[Man_Over_Game]

While there is a point at which structural integrity suffers too much, I have found oreos to be particuarly good milk-dipping cookies.

Indubitably said.

Depending on how exhausting the day has been, I might prefer coffee over milk (one dunk and you're good). Or I'll pierce the cream center with a fork so I can comfortably retrieve it after it has steeped in milk, so as to not soil my overworked hands.

On a less serious topic, one thing I particularly like about Clerics is how they're capable of making themselves feel like a Paladin. All of those support spells work wonders on yourself. I wonder how short of an adventuring day it could be if you just wanted to use massive Concentration spells every single combat.

[Talsin]

Because being the Velocipastor in the name of his scaliness, the great Raptor Jesus is both hilarious, and mechanically pretty fun.
Hunter-Ranger 9 Nature-Cleric 11 blends casting, damage, tankiness, team-support well enough, but tacking on the Lizardfolk mentality can give your enemies (and party)real chills down their vertebrae.

[MrStabby]

If combat is the only thing that's exciting to you, I can agree that the most offensive option for any Cleric chassis (Spirit Guardians/Spiritual Weapon) might sound boring. This is leaving out domain considerations, as a Tempest or Light Cleric has quite powerful alternatives to the above combination.

Let's be real though, a Fighter is going to pick up a combat feat of some sort (let's use GWM as our example) and use any features they have to maximize use of GWM. What actions do you think are going to be taken 95% or higher of the time by a GWM Fighter? The Attack Action. Where is the variety in that?

Wizards are going to do the same thing. They're going to potentially have a few options prepared for combat, but are going to typically utilize 2 offensive cantrips at most, while using 1-3 primary concentration buff/debuff spells. Throw Fireball in there for damage as well. Sure, they have tons of different spells, but certain spells on the Wizard spell list are going to be chosen over others the same way Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon are chosen over others.

If you want to play a different Cleric (or Wizard) as to what your table has seen, your spell selection for combat doesn't need to be different. It's the spells you choose to have outside of combat that really make the difference. These are the spells that will define both a Wizard and a Cleric imo.

As personal experience, I've only ever played in a single campaign that had a combat ratio that was higher then 50% combat, and it was my first campaign I ever played in. Every campaign afterwards, most sessions were spent out of combat situations. This means the strength of the Cleric (and Wizard) can be utilized to greater effect. This is also where the Cleric can differentiate themselves compared to every other Cleric. Preparing Silence on a Cleric can allow for any Cleric domain, even those heavy armor wearing ones, to sneak past an area (which might be assumed to only be the territory of the Trickery Cleric). Enhance Ability allows one to be good themselves at checks or allows an ally to be good at checks. Create Water can be used to provide water to someone in need. This is only looking at a few of the low level options available to Clerics; you only need to look at the higher level spells to see the higher level of world impact they can bring.

Clerics have the ability to impact the world in different ways through the use of their spells. This strength might seem limited if you're only using combat to solve your problems, but if you're open to interacting with the world outside of drawing blood, Clerics take the cake.

I dont know if it is intentional or not but you seem to have misunderstood me. I am not saying that clerics dont have other good spells. I am saying that there is a dearth of other spells that would excite you to play the class. Take banishment for example. Great spell. Really powerful spell. Also accessible as a warlock, sorcerer wizard and later sa a paladin and some rangers. If you really like banishment, as I do, then yeah it's a plus in the cleric column but not a driving reason to play the class.

And likewise for most of the out of combat abilities. I am not saying they are bad or not useful - there are many times I have said they are a great feature of the class. What I am saying is that few are unique and not many of these excite people.

This leads to the test. What proportion of 3rd level spells cast by clerics are cast on spirit guardians? Maybe 40% at a guess? It competes with dispel magic, some domain spells, remove curse and whatever but it is a good measure of how genuinely similar one cleric is to another. If we compare to a wizard and their most common spell at that level - do we really think fireball or hypnotic pattern, or counterspell, or dispel magic or lightning bolt or haste or fly would hit that same frequency of being cast? This is what I mean by spell lists not having enough gems to stop each cleric feeling pretty mechanically similar.

So you could say the same thing about the barbarian as well, all feel the same. My response to that would be: yes. Not all classes are well designed to support diverse play. Another class doing something worse does not make the cleric any better in this regard.

[Samayu]

I'm not a religious person, so I've never felt that clerics really fit me. The first cleric I played was a lawmage - order domain - in Ravnica, where there are no gods. I enjoyed it, but it certainly didn't feel like a cleric. Two campaigns later, I'm playing a real cleric.

A good character has to have a voice. Something that makes it clear to the other players that you're in character. At the very least, there has to be a thing that you do. Something that drives you. I'm not the most awesome role-player, so not all of my characters have a good voice. When our DM set out our current campaign setting, I noticed certain elements that led me to choose a grave domain cleric. From there I decided the main thing I would be is an undead hunter, since undead disrupt the natural order of life and death. So that's my thing.

Everybody has to have a thing. What's wrong with that thing being pursuit of what your god desires? And there are many ways you can play that, so why should that feel like a straitjacket, or that it would limit role-playing?

Another RP thing is alignment. I think clerics (and paladins) are pushed into acting their alignment more than any other classes. I'd never been a big fan of alignment, but I've now found it to be another useful RP tool. My character is written as very strongly lawful-neutral, so I've had to do a lot of pondering how to maintain that alignment. It took me several levels of play to really get a feel for it, and get away from my natural tendencies, but now I feel like I can really get into character.

I suggest two things. One is, when you decide the way your character is going to act, think about whether that can be supported by the cleric class. Alternatively, start with cleric, and see what fun thing you can work into your character.

[ArtIzon]

(...make no mistake, whichever way you cut it, the Cleric has to be a holy man of some description)

That depends how much you (and your DM) care about the fluff presented in the PHB, which is not explicitly rules text. There's nothing to suggest that "Cleric" is a concept that exists in-universe, and the same goes for any other class. My GOOlock/Rogue has no patron, for example, rather her magic-using abilities are represented by the Warlock class as a result of "forbidden knowledge" possessed by the organization she acts as an intelligence agent for.

The biggest challenge for a Cleric would be changing Divine Intervention, which might have a different explanation based on domain. But ultimately, the names of mechanics are just names. Changing them impacts nothing.

[Segev]

I suggest two things. One is, when you decide the way your character is going to act, think about whether that can be supported by the cleric class. Alternatively, start with cleric, and see what fun thing you can work into your character.

Starting with [class] (or [race] or even [background]) and figuring out how to work some key thing or combination of things into a character is my usual method. That's sort-of the problem I'm having with cleric, I think: I can't really identify a "thing" to work into a unique character nucleus that isn't just generically "my god's great; we should all worship and praise him or her." Perhaps unexpectedly, I have a little easier time with evil clerics, because with them there's a much more "warlock/patron" like transactional relationship going on: an evil cleric can easily be "devout" because his or her god gives him or her power for his or her own goals, while I have a harder time coming up with a good cleric who'd be anything but the humble instrument of his or her god's will.

Hence this thread, looking for ideas about what to magnify from clerical traits into an actual character.

[thorr-kan]

Starting with [class] (or [race] or even [background]) and figuring out how to work some key thing or combination of things into a character is my usual method. That's sort-of the problem I'm having with cleric, I think: I can't really identify a "thing" to work into a unique character nucleus that isn't just generically "my god's great; we should all worship and praise him or her." Perhaps unexpectedly, I have a little easier time with evil clerics, because with them there's a much more "warlock/patron" like transactional relationship going on: an evil cleric can easily be "devout" because his or her god gives him or her power for his or her own goals, while I have a harder time coming up with a good cleric who'd be anything but the humble instrument of his or her god's will.
Good clerics can be *exactly* the same. Nothing prevents your goals from being beneficial, nor prevents you from using your powers to pursue them. They don't even have to be one-to-one mappings for your deities goals.

Good /= Nice.

[JellyPooga]

That depends how much you (and your DM) care about the fluff presented in the PHB, which is not explicitly rules text. There's nothing to suggest that "Cleric" is a concept that exists in-universe, and the same goes for any other class. My GOOlock/Rogue has no patron, for example, rather her magic-using abilities are represented by the Warlock class as a result of "forbidden knowledge" possessed by the organization she acts as an intelligence agent for.

The biggest challenge for a Cleric would be changing Divine Intervention, which might have a different explanation based on domain. But ultimately, the names of mechanics are just names. Changing them impacts nothing.

Largely speaking, I agree with you; fluff changes usually have little to no impact. That said though, I caution against free rein here; some fluff changes can have further reaching implications than you might realise.

When it comes to something as fundamenral as Class identity, I have to disagree. Certain Classes have a low "identity profile". Fighter and Rogue are probably the poster-boys of this, but even they can be made absurd. Refluffing the Fighters abilities to be a magic-user is not going to fly; Second Wind is not divine healing, Action surge is not a haste spell...to say they are changes some fundamental things about how they function in the game.

Other Classes are a little more prescriptive in this regard; the Barbarian, for example, can't change the rules for Rage, but could refluff it as a "combat stance" or "Ki Focus" without impacting the identity profile of the Class too much. The character as a whole must still adhere to the basic principle of the Class identity, though; a warrior that enters a short-term state of heightened combat prowess, in the case of the Barbarian.

Then there are Classes that have such strong identity, that refluffing becomes an exercise in both frustration and absurdity; enter the Cleric. Their entire Class package is so intrinsically tied to their Class Identity (i.e. a fervent devotee granted power by their deity) that you can't change one without seriously impacting the other. Same with the Wizard; you can change the details, but not the core; you can say their spellbook is rune-tokens or tattoos, but you can't take it away entirely and nor can you claim their spells are non-magical "martial stances" or "thieves tricks" in the same way a Fighter or Rogue can't claim their abilities are magic.

So a Cleric can claim to be a reluctant devotee or even an unwitting one and a Warlock can claim to follow a cult rather than a patron. What they can't do is remove the "follower of a greater power" part without their Class Identity going down the pan; that's the entire point and focus of how their abilities function and if that happens, their Class Features stop making sense.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

In particular, a single-class cleric, of any domain. All the "that could be cool" ideas I can come up with involve multiclassing, usually just for a 1-2 level dip into Cleric before getting out and doing something with the picked-up domain features. And I'm not saying I'm "right" about this; I'm just trying to figure out what concepts and characters would be best built as clerics and be exciting, fun ideas.

With Illusionists, I can see a lot of fun using Malleable Illusions with permanent illusion spells past level 10. With warlocks, there's tons of flavor and inspiration in the patron, and Great Old Ones have loads of fun with the Awakened Mind feature (at least to me). Rogues have some interesting and defining abilities, like the Arcane Trickster's unique uses of mage hand.

But any time I think of a cleric concept, I either think of a class that would complement the first few levels of cleric and do the concept better, or I am thinking of a character who happens to be a cleric, with the mechanics of the class being...a side-dish at best.

I like both the Trickster and the Knowledge domains; they have some interesting features...but both feel like they, again, do better as dips. Knowledge has cool stuff all the way up to 14, but nothing that calls to me to build a character around it.

The best I've been able to come up with is a drow matron, with either Knowledge for the late-level abilities to read sites, or Trickster with the Divine Smite's poison being specifically flavored as "spider venom."


Again, I'm not complaining. I can see the utility of the class. It's a full caster, and for relieving the party's falling victim to nasty conditions, there's little better. Divine Smite is great for melee clerics, and Potent Spellcasting is an okay addition to more mage-like clerics (though, admittedly, it goes better with some Sorcerer dipping for metamagic).

But even with Erky Timbers remade as a low-level Tempest Cleric to tag along with the party in my Tomb of Annihilation game (after they rescued him from a Sunless Citadel that I transplanted to Chult to open the campaign with), actually coming up with concepts that sound like fun and interesting characters to play and really say "this is a cleric," or that use cleric mechanics in a way that makes it the go-to class choice, eludes me.

So, I ask you guys: what inspires you about clerics? What interesting things can you come up with to make the class sing for you? To make a character that just says, "yes, I'm a cleric, and I'd be loads of fun to play!"



Trickery Domain Clerics are an absolute nightmare for DMs (in a good way) and an absolute joy as a player.

People sleep on this domain, a lot, and think it's a stealth domain. This domain is a misdirection domain.

Blessing of the Trickster means your heavy armored friend is less likely to mess up a stealth check. Do note that this 1st level feature is equal to and better than a 9th level rogue feature (Thief's Extreme Sneak).

Duplicity... Omfg is this great! It's a short rest combat oriented familiar! Gives you advantage on attacks, has unlimited HP, can't be dispelled, allows you to be two places at once... plus this is a perfect illusion! You can cause plenty of enemies to attack it instead of you or your allies! Take the performance feat and weave in and out of your illusion when you move.

Cloak of Shadows. This isn't for sneaking past a guard, this is to give disadvantage on attacks against you. When you go invisible, so does your duplicity (see JC tweet), so even more confusion!

Spells! The cleric spell list is solid but now you have disguise self, charm Person, mirror image, blink, polymorph, and Dominate Person! Pass Without Trace on a full caster? Yes. Make your team into a bunch of a ninjas! Dimensional Door is a lot of fun to play around with and can save plenty of bacon.

I love magic initiate (druid) for this domain. You can make yourself appear to be the biggest threat on the team, keeping the focus on you, rather than your allies.

Low wisdom builds with charger and mirror image up makes you seem like the biggest threat. Easier to heal one person than multiple after all.

High wisdom caster builds with sacred flame and toll of the dead make for some fun times.

Not many classes can touch the sheer misdirection of a trickery domain cleric. Even the illusionist wizard can't make a perfect illusion at 2nd level. You want to give an ally advantage on stealth checks so if enemies notice anyone, it will be you, and not the rogue ready to sneak attack.

Want to really :smallfurious: off a boss fight? Mirror Image Barbarian. Or just mirror image yourself and a bonus action to cast Spiritual Weapon. Next turn use your action. To take the help action (for an ally), wack em with the spiritual weapon, and laugh while your mirror image saves your bacon.

Trickery Domain (and Light domain) are the two domains that let you be a Wizard and a Cleric, more or less.

[Man_Over_Game]

Want to really :smallfurious: off a boss fight? Mirror Image Barbarian. Or just mirror image yourself and a bonus action to cast Spiritual Weapon. Next turn use your action. To take the help action (for an ally), wack em with the spiritual weapon, and laugh while your mirror image saves your bacon.

Not to be a bummer, but you can't do either of those things.

Mirror Image can only be cast on yourself, and you can't cast a Bonus Action spell unless all other spells you cast in the same turn are cantrips.

[KOLE]

Trickery Domain Clerics are an absolute nightmare for DMs (in a good way) and an absolute joy as a player.


I'm an advocate for Trickery being an underappreciated domain; for one, it has a truly excellent Expanded Spell list. Almost all of them are non-cleric spells. I love that. However, there's a couple of real problems with it.

First of all, Invoke Duplicity IS awesome and opens up all kinds of fun, creative uses, in combat and outside of it (you're in chase, duck around a corner, have your duplicate run in clear in view of the guards chasing you, home free!), but it has one BIG problem in combat: it uses your bonus action, conflicting with Spiritual Weapon AND Sanctuary, which is a BIG drawback.

Also, Cloak of Shadows is not bad, but it's got a steep cost: Channel Divinity uses are precious, it also uses your action and shuts down any attacks or spells you want to do, on this turn and the next. That's pretty steep for disadvantage on all attacks against you and maybe advantage on your next attack next turn.

It really doesn't help that they get Divine Strike instead of Empowered Cantrips without getting martial weapons or heavy armor. And that Poison is a bad damage type at higher levels. Heck of a capstone though, and once again, and AWESOME spell list. Polymorph, Dimension Door, Dispel Magic, Blink ALWAYS prepared? Arcana Cleric can SUCK it.

[ZorroGames]

I'm an advocate for Trickery being an underappreciated domain; for one, it has a truly excellent Expanded Spell list. Almost all of them are non-cleric spells. I love that. However, there's a couple of real problems with it.

First of all, Invoke Duplicity IS awesome and opens up all kinds of fun, creative uses, in combat and outside of it (you're in chase, duck around a corner, have your duplicate run in clear in view of the guards chasing you, home free!), but it has one BIG problem in combat: it uses your bonus action, conflicting with Spiritual Weapon AND Sanctuary, which is a BIG drawback.

Also, Cloak of Shadows is not bad, but it's got a steep cost: Channel Divinity uses are precious, it also uses your action and shuts down any attacks or spells you want to do, on this turn and the next. That's pretty steep for disadvantage on all attacks against you and maybe advantage on your next attack next turn.

It really doesn't help that they get Divine Strike instead of Empowered Cantrips without getting martial weapons or heavy armor. And that Poison is a bad damage type at higher levels. Heck of a capstone though, and once again, and AWESOME spell list. Polymorph, Dimension Door, Dispel Magic, Blink ALWAYS prepared? Arcana Cleric can SUCK it.

Well, until level 17, if you get that far, when they pretty much explode in power.

[iTreeby]

The best thing about playing a cleric is getting to make up the tenets of their religion. I had a cleric of pelore who talked about epiphanies he had during his sundance. Made up a ritual where they had to stare at the sun from dawn till dusk, ect. Had fun with that.

[KOLE]

Well, until level 17, if you get that far, when they pretty much explode in power.

To me, there is no reason to judge a subclass, or even a base class, by its capstone. Would you take a subclass if it was was three or four useless ribbons that coalesced into a single, awesome, hugely useful mechanic at tier 4? I’m not saying that the Trickery Cleric is that, indeed I try to advocate for it, but saying it takes off at level 17 is useless since most tables never get there.


The best thing about playing a cleric is getting to make up the tenets of their religion. I had a cleric of pelore who talked about epiphanies he had during his sundance. Made up a ritual where they had to stare at the sun from dawn till dusk, ect. Had fun with that.

I agree with this. I map out specific words for verbal components and fluff effects of certain spells. For example, my greek inspired war cleric, the subjects of her Bless spell get olive wreath crowns while they’re blessed. Her spiritual guardians are a shield wall of Hoplites. She sacrifices small, innocent creatures, like doves or mice, at the War temple when she enters a city to remember the price of war and the toll it takes. This is a part of Cleric that excites me, and DMs should be lenient and allow these moments to happen, unless it’s COMPLETELY counter to the actual established tenants of the God in question.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Not to be a bummer, but you can't do either of those things.

Mirror Image can only be cast on yourself, and you can't cast a Bonus Action spell unless all other spells you cast in the same turn are cantrips.

Huh, thought mirror image was touch, eh, no matter still a fantastic choice for slapping yourself with. Need to talk with a wizard soon.

You slap yourself with mirror image in one turn and then you spiritual weapon in the next turn (if you don't have it up before a fight) then on following turns you use the help action + bonus action while getting advantage on your attack with your spiritual weapon. You can give someone else advantage on their next attack against the target (the help action can't help yourself).


I'm an advocate for Trickery being an underappreciated domain; for one, it has a truly excellent Expanded Spell list. Almost all of them are non-cleric spells. I love that. However, there's a couple of real problems with it.

First of all, Invoke Duplicity IS awesome and opens up all kinds of fun, creative uses, in combat and outside of it (you're in chase, duck around a corner, have your duplicate run in clear in view of the guards chasing you, home free!), but it has one BIG problem in combat: it uses your bonus action, conflicting with Spiritual Weapon AND Sanctuary, which is a BIG drawback.

Also, Cloak of Shadows is not bad, but it's got a steep cost: Channel Divinity uses are precious, it also uses your action and shuts down any attacks or spells you want to do, on this turn and the next. That's pretty steep for disadvantage on all attacks against you and maybe advantage on your next attack next turn.

It really doesn't help that they get Divine Strike instead of Empowered Cantrips without getting martial weapons or heavy armor. And that Poison is a bad damage type at higher levels. Heck of a capstone though, and once again, and AWESOME spell list. Polymorph, Dimension Door, Dispel Magic, Blink ALWAYS prepared? Arcana Cleric can SUCK it.

Duplicity using a bonus action isn't a problem at all. It's not a tactic you need to bring out every battle and I would say this is "big boss fight" mode. The Duplicity + Spiritual Weapon Combo works wonders on a Cleric with Sentinel, lock that enemy down. Plus, when you Invoke your Duplicity, you can have it appear anywhere within 30'. Action for "Duplicity" (right next to you and the enemy, side note duplicity isn't a spell though uses your concentration like a spell) + Bonus Action Spiritual Weapon (advantage on the attack). Later turns use your action to help allies attack the target, slap em with your spiritual weapon with advantage, and if the enemy tries to move you slap them with sentinel. Works wonders for parties with two characters with sentinel when a DM rules that they enemy can take the dash action after being stopped the first time (only the melee attack has stipulations on other people having the sentinel feat). Your dex will be decent but your reaction won't do much damage (dagger 1d4 + dex) BUT you will have advantage on the attack and all you need to do is land the hit to stop the creature from moving. Don't have to hit hard, just got to hit, you know.

New UA changes up Divine Strike and I would definitely use that version. Changing it to a d8 radiant damage on a weapon/spell damage roll type class feature makes much more sense.

Right now my favorite Trickery Build has Magic Initiate (Druid) for Thorn Wip, Primal Savagery, and Endure Elements. Your duplicity effectively gives your spells additional range while active. Bonus action to move it, action for it to cast thorn whip, the target is now 10' further away from you. Also, if you have the perfect illusion attacking, a creature has got to at least attack it once to try and dispel it even if they saw the cleric make it. Sure, if information gets pushed around creatures won't be attacking it, but a majority of the time it looks like the cleric summoned some help and killing it is an option that someone without information on it would try. Endure elements is one of those "oh, good job actually hitting me, sucka" spells that works so nicely.

[GreyBlack]

I like to play Clerics as a true hybrid class. On one hand, clerics are capable of some serious damage potential, but their armor class is typically high enough that they can play tanky in a pinch, drawing damage away from their allies. Clerics have a huge array of situational spells as well that can really bring down the hammer on infidels or just channel their power through their allies.

Clerics are an incredibly versatile class that can neatly slot into really any role, with some roles being easier based on subclass. That's what really excites me about playing a Cleric; that I'm not limited in my game role and can really play however I want/need for any given scenario.

[LibraryOgre]

I like harassing deities until they do what I want.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I like harassing deities until they do what I want.

Watch out, they might "accidentally" give your Bard a colon tumor.

[col_impact]

Clerics compete with paladins for me. Almost every time I want something from the Divine side of things, I want what Paladin or Druid offers more.

Knowledge cleric is sweet, though. Dial a wildcard proficiency is crazy good! Combo with Skill Modify!

Nature Clerics have a special place in my heart! Yay, thorn whip!

[ImproperJustice]

Two Words: Divine Intervention

Wanna be Epic?
Make a God Call.

I have been playing a Cleric of the Forge from levels 5-15.
Besides just the fun of making your own religion.
Sometimes you can call for help to just do that amazing thing you need to work so badly at a crucial time. Highlights for this character with Divine Intervention:

1. Rebuilding the Temple of the Forgotten Knowledge Gods in one day in Curse of Strahd.
2. Asking the Sun to pierce the skies of Barovia for a moment while fighting a vampire Lord.
3. Ressurecting a young child killed by monsters.
4. Raising an entire army of Dwarven allies slain by the great Red Dragon Klauth
5. Stricken with Febblemind, she called out in her most child like state to the God she has served the whole campaign, and he said: Be healed little one.
And like that, she was back in the fight. And very angry.

Have loved this class.
My party insists that I play her all the time. For RP reasons and utility.

I just enjoy being a conduit for divine butt kickery.

She has a real thing about hard work and fair compensation as a Forge Cleric, so slavery is a big no no.

I remember the first time I really fell in love with the class was battling a group of Giant Slave masters and using Animate Objects to strike them down with their own chains and ill gotten treasure.

Later, when using Spirit Guardians, they always appear as various Dwarven Artisans: Bakers, millers, smiths, etc...
When dealing damage they strike with their tools or the peasants hold the enemies back when applying difficult terrain.

[col_impact]

Two Words: Divine Intervention

Wanna be Epic?
Make a God Call.

I have been playing a Cleric of the Forge from levels 5-15.
Besides just the fun of making your own religion.
Sometimes you can call for help to just do that amazing thing you need to work so badly at a crucial time. Highlights for this character with Divine Intervention:

1. Rebuilding the Temple of the Forgotten Knowledge Gods in one day in Curse of Strahd.
2. Asking the Sun to pierce the skies of Barovia for a moment while fighting a vampire Lord.
3. Ressurecting a young child killed by monsters.
4. Raising an entire army of Dwarven allies slain by the great Red Dragon Klauth
5. Stricken with Febblemind, she called out in her most child like state to the God she has served the whole campaign, and he said: Be healed little one.
And like that, she was back in the fight. And very angry.

Have loved this class.
My party insists that I play her all the time. For RP reasons and utility.

I just enjoy being a conduit for divine butt kickery.

She has a real thing about hard work and fair compensation as a Forge Cleric, so slavery is a big no no.

I remember the first time I really fell in love with the class was battling a group of Giant Slave masters and using Animate Objects to strike them down with their own chains and ill gotten treasure.

Later, when using Spirit Guardians, they always appear as various Dwarven Artisans: Bakers, millers, smiths, etc...
When dealing damage they strike with their tools or the peasants hold the enemies back when applying difficult terrain.

Yes. But. Admit it. Wizards steal your thunder. My build heals trauma ##PSYCHIC SURGEON## and ##WASHES AWAY SIN## if you are into collecting those things.

[Foxydono]

Nothing to be honest. In fact, they are probably the only class I will never play, especially healing bots. Even worse, cleric dwarves. I know both clerics and dwarves are quite populair on these forums, but to me they are but stubborn, annoying, proud, vulgar creatures. And clerics don't excel in anything, except healing which I don't care about. /negativity off

[ImproperJustice]

Yes. But. Admit it. Wizards steal your thunder.

Nope.

My deity can cast wish at level 11.
Can a Wizard do that?

[ZorroGames]

Nothing to be honest. In fact, they are probably the only class I will never play, especially healing bots. Even worse, cleric dwarves. I know both clerics and dwarves are quite populair on these forums, but to me they are but stubborn, annoying, proud, vulgar creatures. And clerics don't excel in anything, except healing which I don't care about. /negativity off

None of those strreotypes are required, back in AD&D/2nd in the The complete Book of Dwarves there was on page 78 there was a section of the personalities chapter about the Optimist personality.

I never play or played healbots either. Even in 1974 I healed after combat or as an absolute necessity only. It was my job to defeat our foes first.

[Zetakya]

Healing in combat is a sign of either a serious problem, or a freak accident.

Healing after combat is a sign of effective team co-operation.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Healing in combat is a sign of either a serious problem, or a freak accident.

Healing after combat is a sign of effective team co-operation.

Nah.

Sometimes healing in combat is needed because that's just how things go. The d20 sometimes crits, misses, or just acts natural and you got to deal with it.

You may not want to use Cure Wounds, Healing Word, and Lesser Restoration inside battle, but sometimes that's the best thing to do. Doesn't mean there's a serious problem, that's the white room talking.

You can have effective team co-operation and still have in combat healing. Problems, not "serious", but problems arise.

On a side note, Life Clerics are so much fun to play when you slap charger on them.

Edit: healing in combat is not ideal, but that doesn't mean that there some sort of serious problem with the group.



None of those strreotypes are required, back in AD&D/2nd in the The complete Book of Dwarves there was on page 78 there was a section of the personalities chapter about the Optimist personality.

I never play or played healbots either. Even in 1974 I healed after combat or as an absolute necessity only. It was my job to defeat our foes first.

Dude, play a mountain dwarf life cleric in 5e with the Charger feat.

You will blow the minds of the people at your table because of how hilarious it is that the heal bot is playing tag with enemies.

1d10+Str + 5 @ 4th level (or level 1 with v human but with a d8 weapon) isn't the most but on average you're looking at ~14 damage. From the person who wants to heal the party.

[col_impact]

Nope.

My deity can cast wish at level 11.
Can a Wizard do that?

Are you a ##PSYCHIC SURGEON##? Can you ##WASH AWAY ALL SINS##? . . . if you are into collecting those.

Have you unlocked ##CREATOR## . . .?

[ZorroGames]

To me, there is no reason to judge a subclass, or even a base class, by its capstone. Would you take a subclass if it was was three or four useless ribbons that coalesced into a single, awesome, hugely useful mechanic at tier 4? I’m not saying that the Trickery Cleric is that, indeed I try to advocate for it, but saying it takes off at level 17 is useless since most tables never get there.



Actually I totally agree with this. So disappointed by Arcana Cleric from circa level 4 to 16 from my assumptive expectations before I read the class in depth. Not bad but not great.

The only time I have seen Tier 4 AL characters has been at AL special events (“epics” IIRC) and local AL conventions. Benefit of doubt makes me wonder where all the home game tier 3 AL games are played because I have not seen many in shops where AL dominated.

Evil Coronavirus screwed with my starting at level 5 in a non-AL campaign in non-AL shop reputed to have significant number of Tier 3 games. Limiting participants to 30 or less reduced the number of DMs from 8+ to 3 open to new players and 1 closed to new players due to larger number of participants (8 IIRC.). Right now participants limited to 0. 😭

When we return to normal 🥳 I hope to pick in a campaign. I and a bazillion other game players...

[TrashTrash]

Being able to be however peaceful or violent I want to be. I can be anywhere from a Cleric of a peace deity to a Cleric of the god of war.
Also, I can usually kneecap peeps without violating any sacred commandments, since most holy books focus more on "No loss of life without reason" instead of "No loss of joint use."

My friend nearly exclusively plays clerics, and one of his favorite things to do is to play in a maliciously compliant way. Need healing? Alright, but after this, you owe me two favors. Or money. Money works too.

It's also really funny to be the older sibling character. Like, we don't want you to die, but we won't stop you from jumping into that lake or doing other harmless acts of idiocy if it means we get to laugh at how the DM rules the aftereffects.

Honestly, getting away from the stereotype of a human heal potion is one of the things that makes clerics so much fun for us.
Just my opinion :)

[col_impact]

Being able to be however peaceful or violent I want to be. I can be anywhere from a Cleric of a peace deity to a Cleric of the god of war.
Also, I can usually kneecap peeps without violating any sacred commandments, since most holy books focus more on "No loss of life without reason" instead of "No loss of joint use."

My friend nearly exclusively plays clerics, and one of his favorite things to do is to play in a maliciously compliant way. Need healing? Alright, but after this, you owe me two favors. Or money. Money works too.

It's also really funny to be the older sibling character. Like, we don't want you to die, but we won't stop you from jumping into that lake or doing other harmless acts of idiocy if it means we get to laugh at how the DM rules the aftereffects.

Honestly, getting away from the stereotype of a human heal potion is one of the things that makes clerics so much fun for us.
Just my opinion :)

Life Cleric 1/ Druid X owns the heals.

[Segev]

Life Cleric 1/ Druid X owns the heals.

Sure, but in this case, I'm specifically looking at what is exciting about clerics. Not 1-2 level dips into cleric that are really something else.

[ImproperJustice]

Are you a ##PSYCHIC SURGEON##? Can you ##WASH AWAY ALL SINS##? . . . if you are into collecting those.

Have you unlocked ##CREATOR## . . .?

I’m really confused by the references but want to understand them :)

Could you give me some context?

[Mr. Wonderful]

I've read a lot of responses from people that won't consider the class.

I won't tell you what to do, but I will say that pretty much any character concept or party role you have in mind can be fulfilled by a single class cleric.

You can have an entire party of single class clerics and absolutely rule in all three phases of the game, and have a great time while doing so.

Edit: In fact, that sounds like a fun challenge! Let me know if you have a concept or party role that you'd like a build for and we'll see what we come up with. Understand, I'm not saying that the cleric will be better at thiefing than a rogue, or better at fightering than a battle master, but will have solid skills plus that sweet, sweet cleric list of spells.

[KorvinStarmast]

And clerics don't excel in anything, except healing which I don't care about. Very Wrong. This isn't World of Warcraft. This is D&D 5e.
To answer the OP:

Why I like Clerics to play. (I have played Life, Tempest, Arcana(a one shot), Light, Trickery(a one shot and I wish I could do this from level 1)

1. I like to play a support role and to be flexible. Cleric does this for me.

2. I like to occasionally lay the smack down: Guiding Bolt and Inflict Wounds allows me to do that.

3. I like to change what I have on my spell list depending on what we think we are facing. Cleric does that for me.

4. I like having access to all of the spells in my class list, and a few others depending on domain. Cleric does this for me.

5. I like getting allies up off of the ground if they get hit with a crit during combat. "Whack a mole healing word" allows me to do that. I realize that some people don't like this 5e feature, but since this is 5e we are talking about, I like that feature. And it's a bonus action. I get to do what I was already doing.

6. Versus a horde of enemies (and numbers do matter in this edition) I like to have Spirit Guardians up and use the dodge action to make it harder for them to hit me. My AC can be 18 or more will little difficulty.

7. I like ending conditions: Lesser Restoration is under appreciated.

8. I like hitting things with a warhamer. (My tempest domain cleric was all about his war hammer)

9. I like Divine Intervention. But that might be due to my DM not being a pain about it. I can see how Divine Intervention's attraction will vary by table.

10. I like Magic Initiate/Goodberry cheese. :smallbiggrin: As a first level vHuman life cleric, I took Druid for Goodberry, guidance, shillelagh. And I never looked back. I didn't need to carry a war hammer, I had a club that did 1d8+wis mod. And it was a magical weapon. Nice.

11. I like using guidance to help all other party members with their ability check attempts: climb, lock pick, face stuff, whatever.

12. As a tempest cleric, I enjoyed call lightning that was kept up for four rounds while my allies were taking down a "bag of HP" critter. I also fell in love with fog cloud as a Tempest Cleric.

13. I like bringing back from the dead PC's who had a crap result in combat and died. Revivify and Raise Dead: keep our party together, keep our team together, make the other player happy.

14. I love the Trickery Cleric 2d level feature shennanigans. :)
A lot. I used it as much for RP as for in combat.

15. I like turning Undead. At low levels, this makes a big difference during some fights.

I could go on.

[thorr-kan]

You can have an entire party of single class clerics and absolutely rule in all three phases of the game, and have a great time while doing so. Do. It. You know you want to.

In fact, this has been possible as far back as 2E. We played The God Squad in college. Everybody was specialty priests of a different FR deity. All had been told to "play nice with others" by deity/church hierarchy/etc. We bulled through everything. So. Much. Fun. So much philosophical carping, in character!

[col_impact]

I’m really confused by the references but want to understand them :)

Could you give me some context?

It's an additional layer of achievements on top of AL play. You can easily implement it into group play. It's essentially badges for unlocking combos, etc. in game. You don't get anything but bragging rights. So just extra fun. Good for scoring etc. on alt-metrics.

[jaappleton]

I think Clerics are the absolute best designed class in 5E. There’s nothing to cheese with a Cleric. Everything works and works pretty well.

.......that said, I hate actually playing them, because I can’t cheese anything!

[MrStabby]

I think Clerics are the absolute best designed class in 5E. There’s nothing to cheese with a Cleric. Everything works and works pretty well.

.......that said, I hate actually playing them, because I can’t cheese anything!

I would agree... if I had never played past 10th level.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Do. It. You know you want to.

In fact, this has been possible as far back as 2E. We played The God Squad in college. Everybody was specialty priests of a different FR deity. All had been told to "play nice with others" by deity/church hierarchy/etc. We bulled through everything. So. Much. Fun. So much philosophical carping, in character!

I totally do. Someday the Ecumenical Council will meet and decide to whoop that bad guy behind. Amen!

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I think Clerics are the absolute best designed class in 5E. There’s nothing to cheese with a Cleric. Everything works and works pretty well.

.......that said, I hate actually playing them, because I can’t cheese anything!

I'm sorry... What? Someone has not played a Trickery Cleric.

Level 1: 9th level rogue (thief) feature with blessing of the trickster

Level 2: 3rd level barbarian (wolf totem) feature with duplicity and disguise self

Level 6: 7th level ranger (hunter) feature with Invoke Shadows, not as constant, but has more utility overall.


At level 1 you can allow your Rogue friend (or anyone else) to have a 9th level Thief feature, that's better than the 9th level Rogue feature. At-Will.

At level 2 you get a perfect illusion of yourself. This perfect illusion is essentially a short rest combat familiar with unlimited HP, no AC, and automatically gives you advantage on attacks when you and it are adjacent to your target. Yeah, it's concentration, but Clerics get some nice non-concentration spells.

The Trickery Cleric gets some of the best, absolute best, spells in the game that clerics don't normally get. Pass Without Trace makes your entire party a bunch of sexy ninjas. Charm Person and Disguise Self are both very nice spells that can completely negate combat (but not an encounter as all encounters =/= combat). Mirror Image, Blink, and Dispel Magic? Want to make an untouchable character? 18 AC (medium armor + shield) + Mirror Image + Blink... Sit back and watch your 5th level Cleric not get hit by anything other than crits and that's only a maybe as you're blinking in and out. Side note, your duplicate looks like you whenever you change how you look but I'm not 100% sure it blinks with you, I would think it does.

Again, this Cleric can be very untouchable as a Dex, Con, and Wis combo at low levels. Most things are going to be attacks and some spell stuff here and there (mostly Wis saves) with some Dex saves thrown in too. Medium Armor Cleric with a shield and the potential buffs is fun to laugh at the BBEG.

Polymorph, Dominate Person, and Modify Memory are all gouda spells. Modify Memory is just... Do you want to start a war? This is how you start a war.

Duplicity is said, by JC, to go invisible if you go invisible because it copies your image. Disguise Self (not a concentration spell btw) + Duplicity + Looking like your ally should give your ally advantage on attacks too.

Mirror Image isn't going to stop your duplicity from getting hit, but it will help confuse the hell out of your enemies.

Invoke Shadows is not a feature meant to hide with, though 2 levels of Rogue is a lot of fun with this feature. Invoke Shadows grants disadvantage on attacks against you. This also allows you to confuse enemies on which is you and which is the duplicity. The duplicity is a perfect illusion... Sight, sound, smell, the whole nine yards. There is actually no check one can make to distinguish your duplicity from you and no way, other than losing concentration, creatures can get rid of it. They don't know that though, so enemies should be attacking it if you use it to attack them.

Who doesn't like being in two places at once? All those touch spells are now range 120'. Suck it Sorcerer. You got a lot of defensive/utility spells that you can stay away from the front line and still slap on the barbarian. Bestow Curse and Lesser Restoration are both touch, if you have your duplicity out (which for a lot of fights you can) then these two spells have such a long range and can keep you out of harms way.

This isn't the same level of cheese as 3e/4e can get, but this class is pretty dang cheesy compared to other classes.

Medium Armor + Shields

d8 hit die

Wisdom Based

Cleric Spells

Great Domain Spells

Domain Features that emulate or straight up laugh at much higher class features.

Can be made into a caster, melee weapon user, or ranged weapon user.

Duplicity mostly copies the effects of a feat with ranged combat. Ranged attacks against a target within 5' normally has disadvantage, duplicity cancels that disadvantage. Net user Trickster Cleric confirmed.

The best Cleric to use Charger with in terms of defense (due to spells).

About the only negative thing about the class is that Poison sucks as a damage type... BUT a recent-ish UA fixes that (d8 radiant to damage on an attack or spell damage).

Not many classes gives you such versatility, power, and flexibility as the Domain of Trickery. I hardly even touched on the base Cleric spells...

[Satori01]

Past 7th level spells, the cleric spell list get abit anemic, in my opinion.
Upcasting, is still great, so who needs anything beyond Divine Word.

A cleric of Knowledge makes a good psychic character.
Take a 1 level dip in Ranger to get Favored Enemy: Fiends and get Expertise and Advantage on fiendish knowledge checks....great for Descent into Avernus.
You can even dump stat Int.

Want to play Dirk Gently....Cleric O’Knowledge is a good platform.

Cleric of Trickery + Dragonmark of Shadow is a great synergy. Ask your DM if you can swap out the duplication of Disguise Self and Pass W/O Trace on the Dragonmark spell list.

Blessing of the Trickster, combined with Pass W/O Trace means the Plate Mail user with low Dex and no Prof in Stealth, has a chance to sneak.

Bypassing, ’filler’ battles, (in the 6-8 encounter adventuring day),through stealth, and being able to Nova on the big bad, is priceless.

Channel Divinity recharges on a short rest....so one has things one can do, even when low on spells.

Role Play wise....like any class, anything goes. My cleric of Trickery, fights like Zane from Borderlands 3, and I pretend to be a priest of other faiths to get free room and board ala the Acolyte background, (which I don’t have).

I have a relative who is a nun, who eventually rose to be Mother Superior for her order, and she is a character.

In her words she “kicked The Habit back in the 1970’s”. Taught me how to play pool as a kid, and once ‘hustled’a heavily armed warlord- thru playing pool, when doing missionary work..getting him to spare the village she was in, and not killing the other nuns. She even got him to convert, later. She also met the Pope.


Being a cleric, does not have to be played as stuffy, fussy, or overly pious.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Blessing of the Trickster, combined with Pass W/O Trace means the Plate Mail user with low Dex and no Prof in Stealth, has a chance to sneak.


Chance? No, no, no, my good fellow. With an 10 Dex (Int or Cha would most likely be the dump stat), no proficiency, and heavy armor... They have a +10 to stealth.

A non-rogue with proficiency in stealth and max dex won't hit +10 to stealth until level 13! With a +5 Dex Modifier, the proficiency bonus won't hit +5 till after most people will stop even playing the game! Now, a rogue will hit +10 much earlier, but they get to cheat.

A Rogue with max dex and expertise means that they would have +10 at level 5 (+5 Dex @ level 4) giving you a +11.

+10 is amazing at low to mid levels!

But something I forgot to call out before is that you also can play as an atheist cleric and your deity will laugh their butt off as you get people to stop believing in other gods! Do you know how much weight it holds when a Cleric can cast divine spells and "wizard only" spells and they're telling you that deities are just really powerful mortals pretending to be gods? Plus, no god is going to directly mess with you as you have your deity's backing! You may get some rival clerics mad, but that's just XP and they need to actually find you.

[thorr-kan]

I totally do. Someday the Ecumenical Council will meet and decide to whoop that bad guy behind. Amen!
Campaign Journal, or it's not real!

Seriously, I would love to read that journal. Someday, indeed.

[Segev]

Yeah, pass without trace is an amazing spell. That +10 to stealth for the whole party is nuts. I need to give some goblins a shaman with that spell. Even better if there's a second caster who can put up an illusory fog at goblin-head-height for them to hide in. Though they could just use terrain to their advantage. The bonus-action hide with a net +16 to the roll would make them incredibly frustrating to track down.

One thing I could use some clarification on: If you cast a spell while hidden, is your location revealed even if the spell doesn't create a projectile? Let's start with minor illusion: would creating an illusion of a treasure chest 20 feet away from your hiding space reveal you? What about casting sacred flame or chill touch (neither of which create projectiles, but instead generate effects right in the target square)?

What if you're hiding inside a minor illusion when you sacred flame someone?


I definitely appreciate the description of some of the stuff you can do with a Trickery cleric. Slowly developing a few character ideas that actually could build around these things.

[Zetakya]

One thing I could use some clarification on: If you cast a spell while hidden, is your location revealed even if the spell doesn't create a projectile? Let's start with minor illusion: would creating an illusion of a treasure chest 20 feet away from your hiding space reveal you? What about casting sacred flame or chill touch (neither of which create projectiles, but instead generate effects right in the target square)?

What if you're hiding inside a minor illusion when you sacred flame someone?


I definitely appreciate the description of some of the stuff you can do with a Trickery cleric. Slowly developing a few character ideas that actually could build around these things.

Minor Illusion has no verbal component, so - providing you are hidden such that the somatic component is not visible - you won't be given away.
Sacred Flame and Chill Touch both require verbal components, so may give you away. Although it would depend on if there were background noise or other distractions (such as someone else fighting) in my games.

[Segev]

Minor Illusion has no verbal component, so - providing you are hidden such that the somatic component is not visible - you won't be given away.
Sacred Flame and Chill Touch both require verbal components, so may give you away. Although it would depend on if there were background noise or other distractions (such as someone else fighting) in my games.

I agree on your rulings, in general; what I'm curious about is what the rules are regarding revealing a character's presence - or making their hiding end - based on attacking. It's common wisdom that, for example, a rogue who was hiding who makes an attack has revealed his location, and now must hide again. I am AFB and can't find the rule online right now, but what is it, precisely?

And does using chill touch or sacred flame also reveal you because of the "attack," or is it just a matter of offering Perception rolls to hear the verbal component, and not an auto-reveal?

I'm being a stickler for the RAW, here, so I know what is and is not a ruling vs. rules event, not because I am trying to cheese anything at this time. Or, rather, I'm trying to determine exactly how safely obedient to the RAW the cheesy tactic of hiding, providing cover-noise, and then sacred flaming people who can't find you is. Or chill touching them. (Note that chill touch is an attack roll, but creates the hand in the target's space, so there's no projectile coming out of your hiding spot.)

[Zetakya]

I agree on your rulings, in general; what I'm curious about is what the rules are regarding revealing a character's presence - or making their hiding end - based on attacking. It's common wisdom that, for example, a rogue who was hiding who makes an attack has revealed his location, and now must hide again. I am AFB and can't find the rule online right now, but what is it, precisely?

I am likewise AFB, but I think it only specifies about weapon attacks.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I am likewise AFB, but I think it only specifies about weapon attacks.

This is another thing with 5e that seems they skipped over.

I think at one point casting a spell was considered attacking a creature, with the basic english definition of attacking a creature (an aggressive and violent action against a person or place), but then they split it into gaming terms... Ugh.



Unseen Attackers and Targets

Combatants often try to escape their foes’ notice by hiding, casting the invisibility spell, or lurking in darkness. When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or you’re targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn’t in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the GM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target’s location correctly. When a creature can’t see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it. If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.


Verbal (V)

Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren’t the source of the spell’s power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can’t cast a spell with a verbal component





I would say that the Unseen Attackers and Target section is the general rule and the Verbal (V) components is the specific rule.

If you're making sounds, the creatures will know where you are at because you are no longer hidden (both unseen and unheard).

Being hidden isn't just unseen in 5e. You have to be both to be hidden. You will still be unseen and even have advantage on any attack you make.

Being invisible doesn't automatically hide you. But you do have advantage on attacks while invisible.


Conclusion

The rules are :smallannoyed:'ed due to them not really putting everything together in one place. But casting a spell gives away your location based on sound and you are no longer hidden, but if the target can't see you then you have advantage on attacks. The enemy would still need search you out if they can't see you (say you're behind full cover) but they won't really need to specifically take an action to do so (inquisitive rogues are :smallbiggrin:ing amazing btw), they can just walk around the corner to target you.

[Zetakya]

This is another thing with 5e that seems they skipped over.

I think at one point casting a spell was considered attacking a creature, with the basic english definition of attacking a creature (an aggressive and violent action against a person or place), but then they split it into gaming terms... Ugh.





I would say that the Unseen Attackers and Target section is the general rule and the Verbal (V) components is the specific rule.

If you're making sounds, the creatures will know where you are at because you are no longer hidden (both unseen and unheard).

Being hidden isn't just unseen in 5e. You have to be both to be hidden. You will still be unseen and even have advantage on any attack you make.

Being invisible doesn't automatically hide you. But you do have advantage on attacks while invisible.


Conclusion

The rules are :smallannoyed:'ed due to them not really putting everything together in one place. But casting a spell gives away your location based on sound and you are no longer hidden, but if the target can't see you then you have advantage on attacks. The enemy would still need search you out if they can't see you (say you're behind full cover) but they won't really need to specifically take an action to do so (inquisitive rogues are :smallbiggrin:ing amazing btw), they can just walk around the corner to target you.

Hmmm. So what would happen if an attack spell (no material component, for the sake of simplicity) was cast by a Subtle Metamagic Sorcerer? Does it make a difference if the spell in question is Chill Touch, which explicitly forms the ghostly hand to make the attack in the targets space, instead of Fire Bolt, which causes a projectile to fire at the target? Does it change if the spell is Save based (like Radiant Flame is) rather than Spell Attack based?

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Hmmm. So what would happen if an attack spell (no material component, for the sake of simplicity) was cast by a Subtle Metamagic Sorcerer? Does it make a difference if the spell in question is Chill Touch, which explicitly forms the ghostly hand to make the attack in the targets space, instead of Fire Bolt, which causes a projectile to fire at the target? Does it change if the spell is Save based (like Radiant Flame is) rather than Spell Attack based?

This gets into the "ask a DM" part of the game which ugh.

Personally, I see subtle spell as the specific rule and would say that your magic attack doesn't give you away instantly. It's like if you took the skulker feat and attacked with a ranged weapon. Creatures that are unaware won't automatically be able to know where you are at.

I think enemies would see the effect of the spell but not really know where it came from, they would need to take an action to actively search against your hidden character.

Now, if someone is already searching (say a guard) they may have advantage on finding your sorcerer as they may see where a spell came from, but they still wouldn't automatically know where your character is.

When it comes to save based spells, Sacred Flame is very, very, different than most. Sacred Flame doesn't require "line of effect" you just need to be able to see the target. Sacred Flame has V and S components so it would need subtle spell to keep you from being instantly noticed, but nothing comes from your position so as long as subtle spell was on creatures wouldn't be able to instantly know where you were. However, spells like fireball, specifically state that the bead flies toward your targeted point, so with subtle spell creatures would be able to know where to start looking for you and might even have advantage if they were already searching (because you gave yourself away).

It all depends on the situation and how things are going down.

[Zetakya]

Yeah this is why I bought up Chill Touch, which explicitly doesn't have a line of fire - the hand materialises in the targets space. I'd personally rule that Radiant Flame and Chill Touch did not give away position if cast subtly, but Fire Bolt and Fireball certainly would.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Yeah this is why I bought up Chill Touch, which explicitly doesn't have a line of fire - the hand materialises in the targets space. I'd personally rule that Radiant Flame and Chill Touch did not give away position if cast subtly, but Fire Bolt and Fireball certainly would.

Chill Touch is iffy, depends on how a DM interprets the magic forming the hand.

I've seen some DMs say that magic energy floats to the target and then a hand forms since you still need line of effect for Chill Touch to hit the target.

Personally, I wouldn't argue with a DM saying that but I would say the hand just pops into existence with no visible cue. The enemies would still need to take an action to locate you if you're hidden but I wouldn't give anyone advantage due to visual cues.