Dispelling haste on their turn.

[Anymage]

Normally losing Haste means that you "...can't move or take actions until after [your] next turn". If I ready my Dispel until you start moving - in other words, time it to happen on your action - does this mean you skip two turns as you're inactively lethargic for all of this turn as well as your next turn?

[JNAProductions]

Normally losing Haste means that you "...can't move or take actions until after [your] next turn". If I ready my Dispel until you start moving - in other words, time it to happen on your action - does this mean you skip two turns as you're inactively lethargic for all of this turn as well as your next turn?

I'd only have you lose one action. So, if you dispel it right at the start of their turn, they lose that turn and no more. If they get off an attack or spell (eating their action) and then it gets dispelled (say, you use Warcaster to use Dispel Magic after they whack you and then start walking away) I'd have them be Stunned for the remainder of their turn (losing their movement) and then next turn, they could move, but not take an action.

It's not RAW, but feels about right.

[MadBear]

Normally losing Haste means that you "...can't move or take actions until after [your] next turn". If I ready my Dispel until you start moving - in other words, time it to happen on your action - does this mean you skip two turns as you're inactively lethargic for all of this turn as well as your next turn?

This definitely sounds like something that would technically work, but probably shouldn't. Losing a buff is already painful. Losing an entire turn and losing a buff is doubly painful. Losing 2 turns and the buff is just overkill at that point.

It also one of those things that becomes "if players can do it, so can DM's", which then basically make the spell itself close to worthless if you regularly fight magic users.

[kazaryu]

I'd only have you lose one action. So, if you dispel it right at the start of their turn, they lose that turn and no more. If they get off an attack or spell (eating their action) and then it gets dispelled (say, you use Warcaster to use Dispel Magic after they whack you and then start walking away) I'd have them be Stunned for the remainder of their turn (losing their movement) and then next turn, they could move, but not take an action.

It's not RAW, but feels about right.

while i generally agree with your sentiment, gotta be careful with your language. the creature is not 'stunned'. as in they don't have the 'stunned' condition at all.

disclaimer: if you intended it as a descriptor rather than as a mechanical considiton, then fair enough. i just felt the need to point it out because you capitalized 'stunned'.

[JNAProductions]

I did indeed mean the condition, but that’s because I was (and am) AFB.

So if it’s not the actual condition, then I would not inflict it on them. Just, basically, lose one turn, and no more.

[Deathtongue]

This definitely sounds like something that would technically work, but probably shouldn't. Losing a buff is already painful. Losing an entire turn and losing a buff is doubly painful. Losing 2 turns and the buff is just overkill at that point.

It also one of those things that becomes "if players can do it, so can DM's", which then basically make the spell itself close to worthless if you regularly fight magic users.If a DM decided to get all salty about this, I'd be pretty happy about it! Because unless the caster takes their turn immediately before the Haste user does, it also presents a pretty big problem for the caster: if they get smacked and lose concentration, they wasted their action and a spell slot. What's more, the caster wouldn't be able to counterspell a counterspell and if the Haste user did something devious like cast Haste in a 4th level spell slot they only have about a 40 - 55% chance of actually dispelling the Haste. It's a gamble (especially at higher levels) that often has a hard time paying off. Like, I would gladly let myself have a CHANCE (and a reasonably low one) to stunned for two turns to tie up a lich or a gynosphinx's reaction and action.

I love it when game effects and DM vindictiveness designed to screw over PCs ends up hurting the monsters more, don't you?

[MaxWilson]

If a DM decided to get all salty about this, I'd be pretty happy about it! Because unless the caster takes their turn immediately before the Haste user does, it also presents a pretty big problem for the caster: if they get smacked and lose concentration, they wasted their action and a spell slot. What's more, the caster wouldn't be able to counterspell a counterspell and if the Haste user did something devious like cast Haste in a 4th level spell slot they only have about a 40 - 55% chance of actually dispelling the Haste. It's a gamble (especially at higher levels) that often has a hard time paying off. Like, I would gladly let myself have a CHANCE (and a reasonably low one) to stunned for two turns to tie up a lich or a gynosphinx's reaction and action.

I love it when game effects and DM vindictiveness designed to screw over PCs ends up hurting the monsters more, don't you?

I think this would come back to bite you. There are numberous low-level monsters that have access Dispel Magic, e.g. CR 1/4 Pixies can cast Dispel Magic once a day (IMO should be CR 1), and CR 4 Babaus have at-will Dispel Magic. CR 5 Mezzoloths have it 2/day, CR 2 Priests have it 2/day.

A Babau which holds its action waiting to Dispel your Haste at the worst possible time isn't giving up very much.

[stoutstien]

Normally losing Haste means that you "...can't move or take actions until after [your] next turn". If I ready my Dispel until you start moving - in other words, time it to happen on your action - does this mean you skip two turns as you're inactively lethargic for all of this turn as well as your next turn?

Yes, as long as the trigger is valid. there is a risk of losing the held spell via concentration or the something blocks the trigger like blocked sight so it's pretty fair. I would say 90% of the time you are better just casting dispel with your action because holding the spell is approximately the same net results as far as action economy is concerned.

[Deathtongue]

I think this would come back to bite you. There are numberous low-level monsters that have access Dispel Magic, e.g. CR 1/4 Pixies can cast Dispel Magic once a day (IMO should be CR 1), and CR 4 Babaus have at-will Dispel Magic. CR 5 Mezzoloths have it 2/day, CR 2 Priests have it 2/day.

A Babau which holds its action waiting to Dispel your Haste at the worst possible time isn't giving up very much.Cast Haste out of a 4th level spell slot and laugh at them trying to nail, with a readied action, a DC14 check at +0 or +1 for the sturdier fiends. Or just drop a Fireball on the Pixies/Priests and call it a day.

[JNAProductions]

Cast Haste out of a 4th level spell slot and laugh at them trying to nail, with a readied action, a DC14 check at +0 or +1 for the sturdier fiends. Or just drop a Fireball on the Pixies/Priests and call it a day.

Do you really want to take that 35-40 percent chance of losing two turns? Because that's basically a death sentence, unless your party's REAL GOOD without you.

[Deathtongue]

Do you really want to take that 35-40 percent chance of losing two turns? Because that's basically a death sentence, unless your party's REAL GOOD without you.They could be? I'm only one person out of like 3 to 6 other people. Depending on the encounter design and who I'm tying up the action + reaction of, it's often a no-brainer choice. There's a reason why MaxWilson picked four low-to-mid CR nuisance enemies instead of something like a Lich or a Mummy Lord.

[MaxWilson]

They could be? I'm only one person out of like 3 to 6 other people. Depending on the encounter design and who I'm tying up the action + reaction of, it's often a no-brainer choice. There's a reason why MaxWilson picked four low-to-mid CR nuisance enemies instead of something like a Lich or a Mummy Lord.

Yeah: bad experiences with Babaus. : ) But then, that was LOTS of Babaus, like a dozen or so I think.

[Anymage]

Yes, as long as the trigger is valid. there is a risk of losing the held spell via concentration or the something blocks the trigger like blocked sight so it's pretty fair. I would say 90% of the time you are better just casting dispel with your action because holding the spell is approximately the same net results as far as action economy is concerned.

With Dispel Magic, granted. It's an acceptable way for a minion to get more bang for their buck, but that relies on the minion not getting exploded in a fireball first. Although if the threat of minions does get the party to drop an early AOE and a higher level slot as a protective upcast on their Haste, that's not a bad tap on resources.

If the monster is a martial (archer ideally, but melee could work if the initiative order works out), lighting up the original caster on the hasted target's turn could result in a missed Con save and the loss of the spell. Still eats a reaction, but the risks for readied nonmagical attacks are much lower.

And in the specific case that got me thinking about this originally, the caster might occasionally buff up the barbarian during or before the first turn of combat, but have a backup plan because said barbarian thought that attuning a berserker axe sounded like a good idea.

[stoutstien]

With Dispel Magic, granted. It's an acceptable way for a minion to get more bang for their buck, but that relies on the minion not getting exploded in a fireball first. Although if the threat of minions does get the party to drop an early AOE and a higher level slot as a protective upcast on their Haste, that's not a bad tap on resources.

If the monster is a martial (archer ideally, but melee could work if the initiative order works out), lighting up the original caster on the hasted target's turn could result in a missed Con save and the loss of the spell. Still eats a reaction, but the risks for readied nonmagical attacks are much lower.

And in the specific case that got me thinking about this originally, the caster might occasionally buff up the barbarian during or before the first turn of combat, but have a backup plan because said barbarian thought that attuning a berserker axe sounded like a good idea.

Someone else would need to ready the spell due to concentration conflicts but it's an interesting idea to counter the curse. The barbarian could also close their eyes and everyone could just use the hide action. Shove candle wax in their ears for disadvantage on hearing.

[LudicSavant]

Normally losing Haste means that you "...can't move or take actions until after [your] next turn". If I ready my Dispel until you start moving - in other words, time it to happen on your action - does this mean you skip two turns as you're inactively lethargic for all of this turn as well as your next turn?

Yes, that's exactly how it works by RAW. Haste can be quite risky if your enemy is smart.