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View Full Version : Rules Q&A Duskblade Full Attack Channeling + Blood Wind (3.5)



SirNibbles
2020-03-25, 06:28 PM
The Duskblade's Arcane Channeling ability (Player's Handbook II, page 20) states that "At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round."

The 1st level Sorcerer/Wizard/Cleric spell, Blood Wind states: "The subject can take a full attack action to use all of its natural weapons or unarmed strikes as if they were thrown weapons with a 20-foot range increment. The subject gestures as if making a melee attack, but the result of the attack affects a target within range. This spell does not actually grant reach, and so does not help provide a flanking bonus or allow the subject to make attacks of opportunity at any range greater than normal. The subject uses its normal melee attack bonuses and deals damage normally if it hits, though the target of the attacks can benefit from cover or concealment." - Spell Compendium, page 33

Upon noticing the fact that the Arcane Channeling ability works as part of a full attack action, and Blood Wind uses a full attack action, I thought these could pair together quite well.

My question lies in whether Blood Wind counts as hitting 'in melee combat' or if it is, as the text says, 'as if they were thrown weapons'. What does it mean that the subject uses its normal melee attack bonuses? Does this enable Blood Wind to function underwater? "Thrown weapons are ineffective underwater, even when launched from land. - Rules Compendium, page 149 Since you use normal melee attack bonuses, does this mean there's no penalty for a ranged attack against someone engaged in melee combat?

Considering a continuous item of Blood Wind should only by 8,000 gp if my maths are correct, it'd be nice to be able to pair these together, but there are quite a few questions to be answered as to how exactly this spell works.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-03-25, 07:08 PM
Thrown weapons are ranged attacks, and Arcane Channeling will only work with melee attacks. You'll need to mix in Bloodstorm Blade (ToB) to make your ranged attacks count as melee attacks. In that case you don't even need Blood Wind.

Gruftzwerg
2020-03-26, 12:29 AM
Thrown weapons are ranged attacks, and Arcane Channeling will only work with melee attacks. You'll need to mix in Bloodstorm Blade (ToB) to make your ranged attacks count as melee attacks. In that case you don't even need Blood Wind.

^this.
Have a look at my Arcane Channeling Optimization Build with Bloodstorm Blade and Shivering Touch below in my signature.

BSB lets you throw melee attacks at range and lets em count as melee attack back again. This way you can still apply any kind of melee bonuses like Power Attack & charge multipliers (see my two Ranged Ubercharger builds, Hammerdin & ShurikeNado)

You need a min. of 2 or 4 lvls of BSB.
4 lvls are needed if you want to make "separate" ranged full attacks. Since the 4th lvl gives returning as free action.
2 lvls are enough if you just want to use a single attack as full attack like in the chase of Whirlwind. Do a single attack against each enemy in "reach". Note that it is not natural reach, nor reach weapon or range increment. Just "reach" is anything you can melee. And BSB enables you to melee at range. Hit all enemies (! not your allies^^) in up to 50ft reach every turn. Note that this is under the assumption that WW only makes a single roll and not a single roll for every target. The WW rule text is not clear about this and I have seen interpretations and arguments for both, so make sure you know the WW rules at your table first before going for this build option ;)

SirNibbles
2020-03-26, 08:53 AM
My main issue with Bloodstorm Blade is whether or not you can actually throw Unarmed Strikes and/or Natural Attacks, as the intent was to use those.

ExLibrisMortis
2020-03-26, 10:25 AM
Throwing your fists, probably not. Throwing natural weapons, perhaps if you're a porcupine. Throwing handwraps or brass knuckles, however, should technically be possible, even if it looks stupid.

Gruftzwerg
2020-03-26, 01:55 PM
My main issue with Bloodstorm Blade is whether or not you can actually throw Unarmed Strikes and/or Natural Attacks, as the intent was to use those.

you have two options:

a) convince your DM that your punches throw air like in some old school fantasy kung-fu films.

b) Use gauntlets (and thus no flurry unless you take 5 lvls of shou disciple). Gauntlets let you use your unarmed strike dmg. This shouldn't cause any debates with the DM.

If you can do it with gauntlets, why you shouldn't without. Just from a balancing point it doesn't make much difference. This alone is another good argument to convince the DM imho. Where is the deal? Maybe for scenarios where the party looses their possession (e.g jail), but the monk is the class that is supposed to work best in these chases so no reason to deny it even in such situations imho.