[3.5] Best non-cleric spell of 5th level or lower for a DMM Persist build

[Shadowquad]

Hi Playground,

I'm playing a DMM Persist cleric in a 3.5 game, with a focus on debuff and control.
My DM has ruled that Extra Spell can be used to learn spells of any class, so I plan to take it for my 12th level: I'd have access to any 5th level spell or lower.

My current choice is Greater Blink, which is a valid (and awesome) target for Persistent Spell, but I wondered if you had other ideas.
Note that I'm not set on taking a persistable spell yet.
Also note that my DM has ruled that touch spells are eligible to Persistent Spell.

Authorized sources are Core + Complete Arcane/Divine/Adventurer/Warrior.

Thanks in advance

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hi Playground,

I'm playing a DMM Persist cleric in a 3.5 game, with a focus on debuff and control.
My DM has ruled that Extra Spell can be used to learn spells of any class, so I plan to take it for my 12th level: I'd have access to any 5th level spell or lower.

My current choice is Greater Blink, which is a valid (and awesome) target for Persistent Spell, but I wondered if you had other ideas.
Note that I'm not set on taking a persistable spell yet.
Also note that my DM has ruled that touch spells are eligible to Persistent Spell.

Authorized sources are Core + Complete Arcane/Divine/Adventurer/Warrior.

Thanks in advanceThis is easy. Draconic polymorph. Vastly more versatile and powerful than any other spell near its level (aside from polymorph itself, of course), and it grants HUGE buffs depending on what form you decide on each day. If you can't convince your DM to allow a spell from Draconomicon, then just go with polymorph. Easily better than anything in your allowed list up to polymorph any object. It could rub elbows with 9ths, if even more powerful variants (such as draconic polymorph, PAO, and shapechange) weren't around.

Alternatively, metamorphosis, but only because it allows for objects, as well. Smaller bonuses than draconic polymorph, of course, until you realize that metamorphosis doesn't restrict your size like derivatives of alter self do. Not that I won't have a dozen people coming in here screaming about it, since people have problems with it being RAW. Metamorphosis also can boost you above your HD via ML boosting, while polymorph and its draconic version are capped by your HD. Assuming you can take a power as a spell, anyway. And can use the XPH as a source.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that Draconic Polymorph is one of the best choices. You can walk around in the form of a War Troll (MM3) or similar and be a better combatant than anyone else in the party.

Wraithstrike (CV, SC) turns all your melee attacks into melee touch attacks, so you ignore the target's armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses. This is amazing if you're two-handed power attacking all the time.

Greater Mirror Image (PH2) is pretty good for a defensive spell, Greater Invisibility is also pretty good.

[Shadowquad]

I agree that Polymorph and its variants are good, but the available creatures are also restricted to the aforementionned sources. Still, I hadn't considered it, thanks.

As for Wraithstrike, I agree it's awesome. But I focus on debuff and battlefield control specifically not to outshine our Ubercharger barbarian. I feel that persisting Wraithstrike would be a step in the wrong direction.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I agree that Polymorph and its variants are good, but the available creatures are also restricted to the aforementionned sources. Still, I hadn't considered it, thanks.Persisted polymorph (and its variants), even if restricted to the Monster Manual and Core-only races, still outshines any ten other Core spells of 5th level and below, combined. And that's assuming the size restrictions are in place. If you need a form two size categories to either side (instead of just one), cast enlarge person or reduce person first.

The physical stat buffs outstrip any other (non-polymorphesque) spell in the game. Size bonuses, immunities and other special qualities due to changed type and subtypes, natural attacks, special attacks (see the cloaker's moan ability, along with poison and tons of other stuff), bonus feats, skill bonuses, movement modes, and access to Su abilities via Assume Supernatural Ability if you can swing that.

It's just crazy how powerful and versatile polymorph (et al) are, if you think about it for a minute. Even in Core-only environs.

[AvatarVecna]

None of these can compete with Draconic Polymorph but they're...okay?

That Art Thou gives +20 Listen/Search/Spot and makes you immune to FF/flanking for the duration (well, you can still be flanked if every other creature within 30 ft of you is also flanked, but...yeah). The fluff text ("You extend your senses to become one with all beings and objects within a 30-foot-radius sphere centered on you. You see and feel everything sensed by every person, creature, and object in that area.") could be interpreted as giving blindsense or blindsight 30 ft if you're good at bull****ting. If you think you wanna try that, you could point out how the Blindsight spell gives 30 ft Blindsight for 1 minute/lvl as a 3rd lvl spell, so the skill/immunity upgrade is a fine exchange for a shorter duration (although if you're pulling DMM: Persist shenanigans that might not fly with them).

Owl's Insight gives an insight bonus to Wisdom based on your caster level with no upper limit. If step 1 is CL shenanigans (say, Consumptive Field?), and step 2 is Persistent Owl's Wisdom, you could get a good night's sleep and re-prepare spells with your much-higher Wisdom. Of course, if you're only capable of 5th lvl spells, even CL shenanigans can't get you a huge boost exactly...oh and it's a touch spell, so your DM might get their panties all twisted over Persisting it, so check first.

If you cast Friendly Fire as a full round action instead of an immediate action, its duration changes from Instantaneous to 1 Round/Lvl, making it persist-able. Re-targeting any ranged attack targeting you (even if just targeting it on the ground nearby) can be valuable.

Ruin Delver's Fortune (Reflex) boosts your worst save (although probably only a little) and gives you Evasion.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Persisted consumptive field would also be a good one if you could access the Spell Compendium or Librum Mortuorum Libris Mortis. Buuuuut...

[AvatarVecna]

Persisted consumptive field would also be a good one if you could access the Spell Compendium or Libri Mortuorum Libris Mortis. Buuuuut...

Ah crap book limits too booooooooo

[Shadowquad]

Indeed, book limit is booooo.

additionally, I play a cleric of Pelor, so [Evil] spells are off, or the Burning Hate shall smite me.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I agree that Polymorph and its variants are good, but the available creatures are also restricted to the aforementionned sources. Still, I hadn't considered it, thanks.

As for Wraithstrike, I agree it's awesome. But I focus on debuff and battlefield control specifically not to outshine our Ubercharger barbarian. I feel that persisting Wraithstrike would be a step in the wrong direction.

There are some amazing BFC spells that don't even need to be made persistent. Wall of Thorns on the Druid list easily traps opponents, Freezing Fog (CA) is only 5th level if you're not using SC, or Wall of Force, Black Tentacles, etc. are all good choices. It really depends on what domains you have and what would be redundant. You could just pick one of these, and persist a Cleric spell that will help the whole party, like Magic Circle Against Evil or Mass Lesser Vigor.

For persistable BFC spells, Entangling Staff (CA) can be decent for tying up one opponent for multiple rounds, and Bladeweave (CV) can be decent if you're making melee attacks.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That Art ThouI wonder; is there any way to share this effect with everyone whose senses you co-opt? Aside from maybe some metamagic feat that grants temp hp or something + spellguard of Silverymoon's spellguard ability + Ocular Spell.

[AvatarVecna]

I wonder; is there any way to share this effect with everyone whose senses you co-opt? Aside from maybe some metamagic feat that grants temp hp or something + spellguard of Silverymoon's spellguard ability + Ocular Spell.

I'm not sure about sharing with everybody (sharing personal-range spells with others is difficult), but if you've got a Familiar with the Share Spells ability then that has it applied to both of you, and that means you're both completely immune to flanking for the duration (since you're both an exception within the other's range). Ocular Spell/Reach Spell can't help here, War Weaver can't help here, Chain Spell can't help here...hmm...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm not sure about sharing with everybody (sharing personal-range spells with others is difficult), but if you've got a Familiar with the Share Spells ability then that has it applied to both of you, and that means you're both completely immune to flanking for the duration (since you're both an exception within the other's range). Ocular Spell/Reach Spell can't help here, War Weaver can't help here, Chain Spell can't help here...hmm...Maybe... Hmm...

Arcane archer + the exit wounds enhancement? You add that spell to your exit wounds arrow, then fire along a line of people you want to affect. If you don't want to deal too much damage, maybe use a Pathfinder dye arrow, perhaps with the merciful ability on it. Then cast it on yourself. I guess.

I mean, it's violent, but it should work, I think.

Alternately, be a manifester (most likely a StP erudite psion) with soul crystal and that spell, then have everyone take turns with it.

Can't think of any other ways, off-hand, aside from maybe crafting an item that anyone can use. But that requires homebrewing an item.

I wonder what happens when you have multiple people with it up, followed by a symbol of pain.

[AvatarVecna]

Can't think of any other ways, off-hand, aside from maybe crafting an item that anyone can use. But that requires homebrewing an item.

It doesn't necessarily require homebrewing an item, but it'd be expensive. DMG2 has...I think they're called Bracers Of Spell Sharing? It lets you share personal spells with the person wearing the other bracer. I don't remember the limits (I think one spell at a time and some kinda range limit but beyond that...idk), and it'd be expensive to get a set for each of your friends (especially since you'd have to build of half-sets into one bracer if you wanted to cast That Art Thou on yourself and share it with all your friends, but...). I don't recall how expensive it is, but it should work well enough for sharing with one person without resorting to custom item/homebrew shenanigans.