looking for a Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells for higher stat

[Zhepna]

Hi,

I have a character that will reach an ability score of 60. She I look at the table:
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ability_Scores, it stops at 45. Is there a table giving the spells per days when the ability reach over 45?

Thanks for the information.

[Bartmanhomer]

Hi,

I have a character that will reach an ability score of 60. She I look at the table:
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ability_Scores, it stops at 45. Is there a table giving the spells per days when the ability reach over 45?

Thanks for the information.
I don't think so. Also, how did you managed to have an ability score of 60 anyway? This you went epic and beyond? :eek:

[ZamielVanWeber]

There's actually a pattern. Every 2 of the appropriate stat just shift the table one to the left. If ever 5 of the same number would occur, add one to the last one.

The pattern is that the top 4 are 1's, the next 4 are 2's, the next 4 are 3's, etc. Without epic you won't care about bonus slots 10+ but the calculation is the same.

The feat "Improved Spell Capacity" under the epic feats in the SRD has the extended table.

EX: 60 has a bonus of 25, so the highest bonus slot it gives is 25, and 1 at that. You can just keep counting down by four and adding one to the bonus slot to calculate beyond that. 25-22 are +21, 21-18 are +2, 17-14 are +3, 13-10 are +4, 9-6 are +5, 5-2 is +6, and 1 is +7.

[Buufreak]

I don't think so. Also, how did you managed to have an ability score of 60 anyway? This you went epic and beyond? :eek:

These things are easily accomplished once you figure out there are more than just +6 enhancement items.

[Bartmanhomer]

These things are easily accomplished once you figure out there are more than just +6 enhancement items.

Ok. Thank you for pointing that out. :smile:

[HouseRules]

Formula
Floor((Ability Score - 2 - 2 x Spell Level) / 8)
For Psionic Points, multiply "Slot" by "Manifester Level".
No Bonus for 0th level (Cantrips (arcane), Orisons (divine), Talents (psionic)).

Edit: mistake on power level and manifester level

[Aotrs Commander]

These things are easily accomplished once you figure out there are more than just +6 enhancement items.

More specifically:

Pathfinder tacitly doesn't have a limit (though apparently it was said early on that they officially didn't intend to give out anything with higher than a +6 bonus and considered that the max, though their rules don't actually probit it).(Notable: PF:Kingmaker the game includes +8 items, so Owlcat, at least, weren't concerned abut doing that.)

3.5 Epic rules state anything above +6 (or a base price of 200k1) is an epic item (which is a ten-fold increase in price - fundementally, one suspects, so that it places such items out of the gp reach of nonEpic characters and preserves some semblence of balance post-Epic!), but otherwise unlimited; but that said, a quick squiz through the DMG didn't spot a specific limit in there itself.

Classic case of "implied, but not stated," rules, both!




1This appears to be an quasi-official rule in PF1 too, in that any item that would be more than 200K is likely to be treated as an artefact, though again, this is not explictly stated as a RAW rule that I've been able to determine.

[Buufreak]

More specifically:

Pathfinder tacitly doesn't have a limit (though apparently it was said early on that they officially didn't intend to give out anything with higher than a +6 bonus and considered that the max, though their rules don't actually probit it).(Notable: PF:Kingmaker the game includes +8 items, so Owlcat, at least, weren't concerned abut doing that.)

3.5 Epic rules state anything above +6 (or a base price of 200k1) is an epic item (which is a ten-fold increase in price - fundementally, one suspects, so that it places such items out of the gp reach of nonEpic characters and preserves some semblence of balance post-Epic!), but otherwise unlimited; but that said, a quick squiz through the DMG didn't spot a specific limit in there itself.

Classic case of "implied, but not stated," rules, both!




1This appears to be an quasi-official rule in PF1 too, in that any item that would be more than 200K is likely to be treated as an artefact, though again, this is not explictly stated as a RAW rule that I've been able to determine.

Actually, I was referring to the fact that, last time I counted, I believe there are 13 different sources for bonuses that could boost a casting stat. Get a +6 of each of those, and it's a net +78. Slap that on top of the potential 18 start, bonus from race, inherent from books, and we get something around 103.

[Biggus]

Hi,

I have a character that will reach an ability score of 60. She I look at the table:
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ability_Scores, it stops at 45. Is there a table giving the spells per days when the ability reach over 45?

Thanks for the information.

There is in fact a table here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity) which goes up to, conveniently enough, 60-61. As others have said, the same pattern continues infinitely thereafter (and can be followed backwards on the table if it's nonepic spell slots you were interested in).


Actually, I was referring to the fact that, last time I counted, I believe there are 13 different sources for bonuses that could boost a casting stat. Get a +6 of each of those, and it's a net +78. Slap that on top of the potential 18 start, bonus from race, inherent from books, and we get something around 103.

Important to note that the formulas for creating those are guidelines for DMs rather than rules. Most of those bonus types are not available on any printed item.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't think so. Also, how did you managed to have an ability score of 60 anyway? This you went epic and beyond? :eek:As others have said, it's not that difficult.

This is at level 20 for Int:


32 Base - Do a mind switch or magic jar with another creature, then polymorph any object yourself into a sarrukh (Int 30) before switching back. That way you don't end up as a sarrukh. The Ability Enhancer feat grants an additional +2.

+3 Age - Venerable age; if you're a Dragonwrought kobold, you don't even suffer physical penalties for this, and immortality is easy in 3e. Then after you're aged and seasoned, swap to another body to shed the physical penalties (if any) altogether.

+5 HD - +1 per 4 levels

+15 Inherent - Fell Energy Spell wish* x5.

+6 Enhancement - Headband of IntThat gives you a nice fat 61 Int. Feel free to swap around feats via training or psychic reformation to cut metamagic costs and such, since you'll likely only need things like Fell Energy Spell for a short time.




*Shroud of undeath makes you count as an undead for spell effects and such without rendering you as undead. The Fell Energy Spell feat (Dragon Compendium) grants an additional +2 bonus to undead for any spell it's applied to. So a Fell Energy Spell wish, when applied to you under shroud of undeath gives you a +3 inherent bonus that stacks up to 5 times.

[Biggus]

The Fell Energy Spell feat (Dragon Compendium) grants an additional +2 bonus to undead for any spell it's applied to. So a Fell Energy Spell wish, when applied to you under shroud of undeath gives you a +3 inherent bonus that stacks up to 5 times.[/size]

This doesn't work.

"A character is limited to a total inherent bonus of +5 to any ability score" - DMG, p.21.

Fell Energy Spell does allow you to save 15,000XP by only having to cast Wish twice to get a +5 inherent bonus, but it doesn't allow you to exceed the +5 maximum.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This doesn't work.

"A character is limited to a total inherent bonus of +5 to any ability score" - DMG, p.21.

Fell Energy Spell does allow you to save 15,000XP by only having to cast Wish twice to get a +5 inherent bonus, but it doesn't allow you to exceed the +5 maximum.That's because wish can only be cast 5 times, and under normal circumstances, you only get a +1 per wish.

Specific vs general. A Fell Energy wish is more specific than a regular one.

[Biggus]

That's because wish can only be cast 5 times, and under normal circumstances, you only get a +1 per wish.

Specific vs general. A Fell Energy wish is more specific than a regular one.

No, it isn't just because Wish can only be cast 5 times. It doesn't say that anywhere. It does say, in several places, that an inherent bonus cannot exceed +5. Under the text for Wish itself we have:


An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score

Even epic spells can't grant an inherent bonus of higher than +5:


If you apply a factor to make the duration permanent, the bonus must be an inherent bonus, and the maximum inherent bonus allowed is +5.

There really is no wiggle room with this one, no-one except possibly a deity can break that limit.

[Buufreak]

Important to note that the formulas for creating those are guidelines for DMs rather than rules. Most of those bonus types are not available on any printed item.

I acknowledge your rightness, but choose to play at my table that plays above and beyond. Shenanigans, they get afoot.

[FauxKnee]

For Psionic Points, multiply "Slot" by "Manifester Level"...
Edit: mistake on power level and manifester level

This still has a mistake. It should be .5 * ability mod * manifester level.

"Slot" is a fair approximation of .5 * manifester level for full 9th manifesters like the psion, but is way off for reduced manifesters like the psychic warrior. Ability mod also factors in.

[HouseRules]

This still has a mistake. It should be .5 * ability mod * manifester level.

"Slot" is a fair approximation of .5 * manifester level for full 9th manifesters like the psion, but is way off for reduced manifesters like the psychic warrior. Ability mod also factors in.

You're right. Psionic Manifesters have a smoother curve than slot based casters.
.5 * manifester level * ability bonus (because penalty modifiers cannot manifest anything).

2/3 manifester like psychic warrior still gains full manifester level; that is 1 manifester level per class level.

I don't remember any 1/2 manifester classes among the base psionic classes.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

2/3 manifester like psychic warrior still gains full manifester level; that is 1 manifester level per class level.

I don't remember any 1/2 manifester classes among the base psionic classes.There are no 2/3 or 1/2 manifesters outside of prestige classes. Every manifesting base class in existence is 1/1 manifesting, including psychic warrior.*





*Divine mind doesn't count. For anything.

[HouseRules]

There are no 2/3 or 1/2 manifesters outside of prestige classes. Every manifesting base class in existence is 1/1 manifesting, including psychic warrior.

That's equivalently saying that Bards are full casters since they have 1/1 caster level.

[FauxKnee]

2/3 manifester like psychic warrior still gains full manifester level; that is 1 manifester level per class level.

I don't remember any 1/2 manifester classes among the base psionic classes.

Yes, I agree that almost all psionic classes improve their manifester level each time they advance. My remark about classes that don't eventually get access to 9ths was specifically regarding how closely the "slot" approximation aligns to the correct pattern.

I believe the Psychic Rogue (from a web enhancement) gets access to 5th-level powers, so in my book it counts as a half-manifester in the same way that a psychic warrior counts as a two-thirds manifester.

[HouseRules]

The base slot to base power points is approximately follow the "slot * caster level" as equivalence.
The bonus for Psionic is quite less than the equivalence of "slot * caster level" because of the greater flexibility power points have.
Thus, the bonus is "halved" for the balance.
Psionic classes also have more flexibility than slot based classes since their augmentation has no stacking limit.
Heighten Spell is the only metamagic could stack itself.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The base slot to base power points is approximately follow the "slot * caster level" as equivalence.
The bonus for Psionic is quite less than the equivalence of "slot * caster level" because of the greater flexibility power points have.
Thus, the bonus is "halved" for the balance.
Psionic classes also have more flexibility than slot based classes since their augmentation has no stacking limit.
Heighten Spell is the only metamagic could stack itself.Also, you can apply metapsionic feats more than once, unlike metamagic and other meta- feats. The limits to metapsionic feats are implied, as they are baked into the system as a natural consequence of other rules: A.) Feats with effects that can't stack obviously don't (such as Quicken or Maximize), B.) your power point cap based on your manifester level limits how many power points you're allowed to spend on such feats (as with all augmentations), and C.) the number of psionic foci you've got is another obvious limit (which is usually 1 without feats or other abilities, which are very rare).

Ardent gets an ACF (Dominant Ideal) that completely breaks this paradigm; otherwise, it works rather well.

Err...just as a point of interest.

[Powerdork]

Y'all ever think about how your fractional casting equivalents don't actually neatly line up with what the game actually has?