The Essence of the MCU in D&D

[Draz74]

I'm on a 5e D&D-character-building kick, and I've started creating characters as if I were going to be running a D&D 5e Marvel Cinematic Universe campaign.

Yes, I know it's not the right system for a supers game. (I build lots of M&M characters too, including MCU emulation builds. But that's not what I'm in the mood for.) I'm not trying to make the characters match their film abilities exactly; rather, I'm trying to capture their essence. What they would be if they emigrated to a D&D universe.

Yes, I also know I'm far from the first person to think of this project. I'm looking at others' work for inspiration ... but I think I can do better than them.

OK, now that those caveats are out of the way ...

I'm aiming to build high-level characters; so far, all the ones I've drafted are Level 14+. And ability scores can start as high as 18 as often as necessary to represent the character. And they can have a pretty generous selection of appropriate magic items too. Multiclassing is allowed and generally encouraged.

And I wanted to discuss some of the choices available ...

Links to Detailed Builds (in order of MCU appearance)
Tony Stark (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24422532&postcount=10)
Bruce Banner (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24422886&postcount=11)
Natasha Romanoff (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24424257&postcount=41)
Thor Odinson (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24425971&postcount=59)
Clint Barton (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24426151&postcount=60)
Steve Rogers (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24426583&postcount=61)
Scott Lang (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24429732&postcount=91)
Carol Danvers (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24427932&postcount=69)

[Draz74]

Tony Stark
People in the past have built Iron Man using a lot of different classes, but now that Artificer is a full-fledged official thing (and even has a Power Armor subclass in UA), I can't see any reason to go with anything but Artificer for Tony.

He's also human. Especially now that Eberron has brought us the Mark of Making Human subrace.

OK, that might be the end of this discussion. I'm more open-minded with some other characters.

Oh, and I thought Level 18 seemed about right power-level-wise.

Bruce Banner
Other people have gone multiclass with this character to try to represent Banner's non-Hulk abilities. Personally, I don't think that's necessary. Give him a very high Intelligence and some scientific Skill proficiencies, maybe even Expertise in Nature or something, and I think that's enough representation for Banner. All the class levels should be devoted to Hulk.

There's not really a good way to switch between the two in D&D, so, assuming your campaign takes place pre-Professor-Hulk, it will just be up to the roleplayer to roleplay out which of the two forms he is in at the moment, and not use "smart abilities" when in a rage or extensive combat abilities when not raging.

There's still the question of whether I should multiclass this character just to represent the Hulk half. My draft that I already drafted went full Barbarian 20, but that's partly because I was forgetting I could take a Belt of Giant Strength (and get even higher Strength than Barbarian 20 can achieve). Certainly 15 levels of Barbarian are essential for Persistent Rage. But beyond that ... hmm. I've thought maybe Fighter for the UA Unarmed Fighting Style, because it does marginally more unarmed damage than Tavern Brawler does. But I'm not decided yet.

Barbarian subclass is also up for debate. I drafted Totem Barbarian, but I've seen other people using Berserker and I'm questioning now. But I'll probably stick with Totem, because going bear/bear/eagle gets you some pretty Hulk-ish abilities, including leaping long distances (flight that ends at the end of your turn from eagle totem).

There's also race to consider. I drafted a Half-Orc, but that's partly because I still picture orcs being green (which they're not in D&D canon). It's also partly so I could take Prodigy, but that's not fully necessary either when the Class Features UA can give the 2nd-level Barbarian Expertise in two skills, including the option of Nature.

Thor Odinson
The Thor builds I've seen make him a Paladin, or a Tempest Cleric, or a Fighter. No multiclassing, and no Storm Sorcerer levels to be seen. Personally, I think a multiclassed Storm Sorcerer is a great fit. Six levels of Sorcerer is enough to get Fly and Lightning Bolt, and Storm Guide (which is excellent fluff) and Heart of the Storm.

I thought Level 20 was appropriate for Thor, so I drafted Battle Master Fighter 5 for Extra Attack, followed by Storm Sorcerer 6, followed by Tempest Cleric 9 for Destructive Wave. MAD, you say? Yeah, but I went with mediocre Wisdom for fluff reasons, and mostly selected Cleric spells that don't rely too much on having a high spellcasting ability.

I really don't see Thor as a Paladin ... Aura of Protection? He's not that great a leader, at least compared to some other MCU characters.

Any reason I should depart from this build?

There's also race to consider. I instinctively though Aasimar was a good way to represent Asgardians, and specifically went with Scourge Aasimar. But apparently others have built him as a Dwarf. There is one major advantage to that: he could attune a Dwarven Thrower Hammer. For my part, I just homebrewed a Returning weapon property, which 5e really should have and which is now precedented by the Artificer Infusion that makes a weapon do the same thing. And I figure I can also fluff Spiritual Weapon strikes as thrown Mjolnir. But maybe I should just give in and go for the Dwarven Thrower.

Clint Barton
Hawkeye in the MCU is more than just an archer ... he's an assassin/agent who's pretty capable in melee too. So I started him off with one level of Monk, which is unfortunately (AFAIK) the only way in 5e to get Dex-based Unarmed Strikes. At least in Hawkeye's case there's no conflict between Monk abilities and wearing armor, since he should clearly be unarmored.

Then I went with 3 levels of Gloom Stalker Ranger. That got me some ambush-assassin killing power, Expertise in Perception (thanks to the UA Ranger 1 ability Canny), the obviously-essential Archery Fighting Style, and the very appropriate spells Ensnaring Strike and Hail of Thorns. But it also got me some abilities that aren't as desirable on Hawkeye: Favored Enemy (or UA Favored Foe, which is better but just doesn't seem like Hawkeye's style), Disguise Self, and either Primal or Primeval Awareness (which is either a weird divination monster-radar ability or some more spells that it doesn't seem like Hawkeye should have). And Darkvision, although I'm not sure that's inappropriate. So I'm open to changing these Ranger levels.

Then I went with 10 levels of Arcane Archer Fighter. At least 7 seems pretty essential, as he should definitely have Magic Arrow and Curving Shot. (The latter should just be fluffed as him having aimed at the second target all along, since he pretty much never misses.) I gave him the UA Blind Fighting Style, but maybe something else would be better?

I made him a VHuman, since he's fluff-wise completely human and it got him Sharpshooter from Level 1. But I've seen some other people making him non-human, and now I'm hesitating. In particular, if I make him a Half-Elf or Wood Elf, he could pick up Elven Accuracy if he can spare a feat. Which would be yet another way to make his attacks miss less often, which is kind of key to the character concept. Although if he's not VHuman, he only gets 3 feats with the current class-level setup. And if Sharpshooter, Mobile, and Prodigy are those three feats, than a Half-Elf version would struggle to take Elven Accuracy anyway. But I guess Mobile and Prodigy aren't essential, even though my current draft has them ...

Steve Rogers
Now, Steve I didn't want to make Human, since part of what makes him special did "come out of a bottle" in Iron Man's words. I don't generally love allowing Ravinca material in my builds, but for Steve I went with Simic Hybrid, taking the AC+1 and Climb Speed options. But I'm not attached to that.

OK, I should have started by saying, I don't think there's a good non-homebrew way to do the whole "using a shield as a weapon, even throwing it" thing. So I will either not bother or will homebrew something.

Most people on the web seem to make Steve a Fighter. My instinct, though, was to go Paladin. Sure, a lot of things will need to be refluffed, like chucking around a bunch of Radiant damage in Divine Smites. And he may just have to ignore a good portion of his spell list because the magic would be too flashy. But Aura of Protection and Aura of Courage seemed like an excellent fit. So I went with it, so far. Specifically, I chose Redemption Paladin.

I thought Level 16 seemed about right for Captain America, and wanted the Level 15 Redemption Paladin ability. Then, almost just for the sake of multiclassing, I multiclassed into one level of Barbarian. Not essential, since he can wear light or medium armor without violating fluff and I can take or leave Rage on this character. But it just seemed like a more interesting addition than a Fighter level. Reconsidering now.

Especially because it would be good for Cap to have two Fighting Styles: Unarmed (UA) and Protection. I chose Unarmed and gave up on Protection, since he can protect nearby allies with his Reaction through a Redemption ability instead of through Protection, but Protection might be more flavorful.

I did make sure he had Shield Master, even though he doesn't knock people prone that often. And Inspiring Leader, even on top of his Aura features, to represent the whole "inspiring leader" thing. And Athlete to finish off his Feat selection. But now I'm realizing I made a mistake, as taking three Feats doesn't leave him any ASIs to bump his Charisma up from 19 to 20. And I want him to have 20 Charisma (actually 22, using a Tome of Leadership and Influence).

Natasha Romanoff
I am used to the house rule where Monk/Rogues can Sneak Attack with Unarmed Strikes, so I didn't balk at allowing it in these builds either. Eh, sue me. Again, no other way to get Dex-based Unarmed Strikes than Monk 1. Again, at least the armor issue isn't a problem.

So I made Nat another VHuman, and started her with 4 levels of Assassin Rogue, for Assassinate and the Athlete feat. Then 2 levels of Monk. Then 5 more in Rogue for Infiltration Expertise. Then a 3rd level of Monk ... and I chose Long Death Monk, just to be different, but now I'm thinking that was dumb. Not sure what would be better though ... Open Hand? Boring, and Nat seems to knock people prone before wailing on them, while Open Hand encourages the opposite. Then 2 last levels of Rogue for Mobile and Reliable Talent.

I doubt there's any reason to go for any build other than Rogue/Monk, but how many levels of each, and which Monk subclass, and which feats, are still points that are up for discussion.

For Expertise, including one from Prodigy at Level 1, I went with Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Insight, and Stealth. Do any of those seem excessive, like they should just be regular proficiency plus a high Ability score? If so, I guess she could have Expertise with Sleight of Hand or Thieves' Tools instead?

OK, that's the original 6 Avengers. More to come, but this should be enough to start a discussion.

[Draz74]

Carol Danvers
I went with Sun Soul Monk for Captain Marvel, as the whole "blasting people with radiant damage at a distance using your ki" thing fits well. And she's a decent martial artist in melee too. But I may have taken it too far, going all the way to Monk 20. Some of it fits ... Astral Projection is kind of like FTL flight to other galaxies, and I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't age or can talk to anyone who has a language. And being proficient in all saves, and able to reroll them using ki, is pretty good at representing the character's resilience. But ... I dunno, something feels like it's missing in the Monk 20 build.

The most obvious omission is Flight. Captain Marvel seems like she needs at-will flight, not just sporadic flight, and ... the way I came up with to do that was to make her a winged race. Aarakocra seemed too weak, even though its ability scores gel with Monks' main scores, so I went with a Winged Variant Tiefling. It's much slower in flight, but the Monk levels took care of that.

But now I'm also hesitating about the whole "Tiefling represents a human who has been enhanced by an Infinity Stone" thing, partly because I remembered that I might want to add Nightcrawler to this project eventually, and can you really call anyone else Tiefling-ish compared to Nightcrawler?

But if I drop the Tiefling thing, is there another good way to pick up flight? Am I stuck with Aarakocra, or refluffing a Broom of Flying or something?

As ostensibly the most powerful Avenger, overall, it's an open question how many Epic Boons to give her. I went with 2 so far: Boon of Invincibility and Boon of Fortitude. These, along with a Manual of Bodily Health for 22 Constitution, help explain how she could take Thanos strikes and be significantly less affected than other heroes.

Wanda Maximoff
OK, so is there any question that we have a Wild Sorcerer here? That's the conclusion I immediately jumped to, and what I've seen on the web corroborates the idea.

Having already decided on Tiefling for Danvers, I thought it worked for Scarlet Witch too. In the MCU, unlike the comic books, she got her powers (partly?) from an Infinity Stone altering her, just like Danvers. So that's consistent, and the +2 Charisma is good for a Sorcerer too. But again, thinking of adding Nightcrawler eventually is making me hesitate on the whole Tiefling concept.

I did also consider Kalashtar for Wanda. So I could go back to that ... or really, use pretty much any unused race with a Charisma bonus. Kind of wide open here.

I saw people on the web complaining that there aren't enough mind-twisting or telekinetic powers on the Sorcerer spell list, but I didn't have a problem picking out spells that seemed appropriate. I didn't even use Telekinesis ... should I have? Is that an important part of the character?

I did use Phantasmal Force, Confusion, Hold Monster, Synaptic Static, and Power Word Pain to represent all the mind-twisting abilities.

She's pretty "blasty," too, and should have plenty of spells that just deal direct damage. Specifically, Eldritch Blast seemed very appropriate. I thought about picking it up with Magic Initiate (the Feat), but ... that wouldn't give it Agonizing Blast. And the last two levels of Sorcerer didn't seem important, you know? So I gave her 2 levels of Great Old One Warlock, which also came with even more mind-meddling utility. (Telepathy, and the Dissonant Whispers, Arms of Hadar, and Tasha's Hideous Laughter spells. The latter needs re-fluffing, but is very appropriate in terms of its actual mechanics.)

Peter Parker
OK, I probably went overboard multiclassing here.

Monk, because Dex-based unarmed strikes. Even though his suit should probably count as Light Armor ... hmmm. I just gave him Bracers of Defense to represent the suit's defensive abilities, but I'm not fully satisfied with that.

Ranger 2, because Ensnaring Strike spell. And some other things fit well too: a Fighting Style (I went with the UA Druidic Warrior Style, for Thorn Whip as another way to represent the web attacks, and got Guidance for good measure), the UA variant Deft Explorer: Roving for a speed boost and a Climb Speed. And Hunter's Mark is ok too, I could take it or leave it on this character.

Eldritch Knight Fighter 8, because now he can summon a bonded Whip as yet another way to represent his webbing. Although, now I'm thinking he doesn't actually deal a lot of damage with the webbing. Maybe a bonded Net would be more appropriate? At level 8 of Eldritch Knight, besides a much-needed Feat, he gets the very fluff-appropriate Web spell.

And then because I was totally going crazy, I topped him off with one level of Archfey Warlock, mostly just to get a Level 1 spell slot that would recharge on a short rest. It was pretty hard to come up with Warlock spells that felt appropriate to the character, though.

I wasn't sure how all to represent swinging through the city (other than the City Secrets background feature), but I figured Monk 4 for Slow Fall was a partial answer. Which meant I had to choose a Monk Subclass. I went with Kensei, for more defensive ability and not ruining his martial arts when wielding his bonded Whip ... but if I drop the whip, I could be persuaded to go with another Monk subclass too. The whole "ranged Kensei weapon" thing is wasted anyway. Unfortunately, the Net is not a legal Kensei Weapon.

I picked up 2 Superiority Dice and 3 Maneuvers from a Fighting Style and a Feat. Disarming Strike is another thing he does with his webs, and Goading Attack is one way to represent his in-battle bantering and taunting. And then I went with Tripping Attack just because. But maybe I should drop the whole Maneuver angle?

Yeah, this build is all over the place, and I'm definitely looking for outside opinions.

Race needs re-working as well. I went with Tabaxi at the time, but now I'm thinking that's silly in light of how much more Tabaxi-like are Black Panther and Quicksilver.

Stephen Strange
So I don't think any one D&D magic item is going to represent the Time Stone well. So I think a number of spells are just going to have to represent Strange's temporal abilities.

Hey wait, some Critical Role content is official now ... including ... a Time-Wizard Subclass? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

So yeah, I went with Chronurgy Wizard 20 as Strange's draft build. I see some other people on the web saying he should be at least partly a Mystic, though. That makes some sense ... but I'm torn about whether Mystic, being infamously broken, should be allowed in this project at all ... but I'm not sure how else I'd ever do Xavier and Magneto, if I ever expand the project to do them ... so yeah. Not sure if I should give Strange some Mystic levels.

I think that's the only alteration I'm considering for Strange's class, though. And I'm pretty set on him being Human (VHuman) too. But a lot could be debated about him still, especially his Prepared Spell list.

I made his repertoire of spellbook spells pretty HUGE ... basically anything to do with time, teleportation (although there's no D&D spell that can match the scope of the summoning of other heroes he did in Endgame), dimension shifting, force effects, and some stuff involving direct mental assaults on enemies. But I had to pick just 25 of the spells to prepare. I think it still turned out all right, but if there's anything you think he really should have, discuss it!

As one of the more powerful Marvel heroes, I made him Level 21, with the Boon of High Magic.

That's the heroes I've actually drafted builds of. Next up: the ones I'm still just considering!

[Draz74]

Sam Wilson
Other people on the web have just made Sam an Aarakocra. While that's kind of cute, I'm not sure it really fits in my mind for some reason.

Maybe it's because I actually want Falcon's flight to be from a removable item or feature, this time, rather than being innate to the character. Since he gets his flight from a power suit in the films.

Best I've come up with yet is just making him a build that can fight ok while grabbing onto a Broom of Flying. Eh. Any better ideas?

I've thought about his class levels just being in Fighter. Battle Master, or maybe (since I've already broached Critical Role content) Gunslinger? Or maybe Ranger ... or maybe a dip in Artificer ... yeah, I haven't developed this one very far yet.

James Rhodes
This is hard, because unlike Tony, he doesn't build his own Power Armor. So Artificer doesn't feel as appropriate ... but it's so perfect at portraying power armor.

Yeah, that's about as far as my brain has gotten with War Machine.

The Vision
First off ... at least Warforged are official content finally!

Then ... I guess I'm thinking Wizard for this guy? Maybe even the UA psionic Wizard subclass, with its ability to "phase out" of normal matter? But wasn't that a 1/long rest ability? I don't remember. At least other spells can represent phasing out too? He'll have a high Strength score, but does he need any features that use it?

T'Challa
Well, obviously at least a level in Monk ... but this time, that really gets us into trouble, because he really should be wearing light armor to represent the Panther suit. So ... refluff Bracers of Armor again? Or make him a Strength-based attacker even though he obviously has 20 Dexterity?

I may just stick with Open Hand Monk and maybe a few levels of Fighter for his class levels. Seems simple enough.

I could make him another Simic Hybrid, as it's stated in the films that the flower's Black Panther effect is very similar to Captain America's super soldier serum. But can I really pass up making him a Tabaxi? On the other hand, can anyone else be a Tabaxi when Quicksilver is so obviously the master of the Feline Agility feature?

Pietro Maximoff
OK, Quicksilver is hard, because he's just got one main superpower, and it's not the main shtick of any D&D class.

He pretty much has to be a Tabaxi, and I think he might be the only character I allow to use a Manual of Quickness in Action to boost their Dexterity higher than 20.

Otherwise, some Monk levels should be obvious, and this time it's not just about general martial arts abilities! It's more because of Unarmored Movement! Which means at least 9 Monk levels, I guess.

What else can boost Speed without a huge character level investment? After the Monk levels, I may just stick with going spellcaster and re-fluffing a lot of spells to represent extreme speed. He's kind of got to have Haste and/or Slow, right?

Scott Lang
Like Quicksilver, Ant-Man has one main shtick that doesn't translate to D&D easily. I mean, there's Enlarge/Reduce, but that's a spell, and any class that has access to it will end up with lots of other spells too ...

Three levels of Thief Rogue seems appropriate just to represent Scott's backstory before he became Ant-Man.

I've seen people on the web starting him off as a Halfling, just so that Reduce will make him Tiny instead of Small ... but ... then Enlarge will only make him Medium? So it doesn't represent Giant-Man well at all.

Yeah, I might be a little stumped on this one. Ideas are welcome!

Bucky Barnes
Haven't thought about him much yet, but my initial instinct says "Ranger."

Probably the same Race as Captain America, whatever that ends up being.

I saw someone on the web saying he should be an Undying Warlock ... That doesn't seem right, but I'll at least review what the Undying gets and think about it some more.

Next up, I venture off-planet! Or try.

[Draz74]

Peter Quill
Eh. I didn't really love Guardians of the Galaxy as much as a lot of people did, and ... that's inhibiting my ability to come up with builds for them.

I've seen people on the web saying that Star-Lord's obsession with music necessitates him being partly Bard. That ... yeah, I can get behind that, especially since nothing else has really felt appropriate as a Bard so far. Probably just a low-level dip in Bard, though, since he's not a mighty caster.

Otherwise ... Gunslinger (from Critical Role) again? Or Rogue? Or something else? Those are just the classes I've seen other people's builds using.

And for Race ... Aasimar? (Same as Thor? Or am I changing Thor to a Dwarf?) Or Half-Elf? Or something else?

Gamora
Again, struggling with Guardians of the Galaxy. But Gamora is pretty simple, powers-wise. Some combination of Rogue and Fighter? Or is she Dexterity-based enough that I'll have to do another Monk dip?

Ironically, people on the web seem to make her a Human most often. That doesn't sit right with me. Maybe Hobgoblin?

Rocket Raccoon
Since there's not really any official Small Anthropomorphic-Animal races yet in 5e, except for Grung which I don't consider legal material (and is a terrible fit for a raccoon anyway), I think I like the idea I saw someone else using of making Rocket a re-fluffed Rock Gnome.

As for class ... I guess some Artificer/Gunslinger combination?

Groot
My first thought was Druid, but someone on the web pointed out that he doesn't really fight like a druid (no Marvel heroes do, IMO). And that Magic Initiate Feat for Druid spells might be enough Druid for him.

That person also represented him as a Barbarian, so that's what I'm leaning toward. But I haven't given it a lot of thought yet.

As for race ... the one I saw online went with a homebrew vegetable race. I don't want to do that! I'd rather re-fluff something official. Maybe Lizardfolk would fit? No, wait, I think I like Tortle better.

Drax
Fighter, or Barbarian, or both? And what Strength-boosting race? Goliath is the first thing that comes to mind, but I think that might fit better for someone else? (I saw some Thanos-as-a-Goliath artwork I really liked, but I'm not planning to make Thanos part of this project, probably, as he should be an NPC-style stat block with a CR well over 20.)

Nebula
How far into Guardians of the Galaxy should I go?

Is this another Warforged? Maybe a Rogue?

Mantis
Is this getting silly yet?

Kalashtar? Great Old One Warlock? Both?

I'm considering even lesser MCU characters ... which I guess I'll discuss too?

[Draz74]

Loki
OK, he's the main villain in more than one film, but he sort of becomes an ally of the Avengers, at least in Ragnarok ...

Sorcerer? Shadow Sorcerer, specifically? Sorcerer/Rogue?

Nick Fury
Should he be in this project at all? If so, what level? I'm leaning towards about the same as Black Widow/Hawkeye (14), but ... maybe lower level is appropriate?

In any case, if I build him, he certainly should have some Mastermind Rogue levels. What else?

Phil Coulson
OK, this risks going down the rabbit hole of making other Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. characters, but darn it, I love Coulson's character. Not sure there's any half-decent way to translate him to D&D, though. Low-level Inquisitive Rogue?

Pepper Potts
If Rhodey/War Machine is hard to translate to D&D, then "Rescue" (Pepper's superheroine name) is at least as hard. Probably ends up being a very similar build, just a little lower in level.

Hope van Dyne
Probably very similar to Ant-Man, with maybe more spellcaster levels instead of Thief levels.

I should probably stop this post here before I get completely silly with minor characters like Happy, Luis, and Korg, that really aren't superheroes.

But never fear, I've got some ideas for Marvel characters that aren't in the MCU, too ...

[WadeWay33]

I’d just like to say the fact that you did this is insane. Most people wouldn’t have the patience to. Nice job!

[col_impact]

Ant Man is obviously a shepherd druid with a criminal background. Using Pixies for Polymorph spam is completely in character. Giant Insect, etc. Wildshape into ant flavored as ant-sized man. How did you miss this?

[Draz74]

Ant Man is obviously a shepherd druid with a criminal background. Using Pixies for Polymorph spam is completely in character. Giant Insect, etc. Wildshape into ant flavored as ant-sized man. How did you miss this?

Haha, nice. I didn't think of it because he doesn't actually change into an ant, but you're right that could be refluffed. He'll have a lot of abilities he "shouldn't," like most of the spellcaster builds, but this is probably the best option anyway.

[Draz74]

In-depth presentations of builds. Comments welcome.

Tony Stark

Base Ability Scores: Str 12, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 17
Race: Mark of Making Human
Background: Billionaire Businessman (Guild Membership, 2 languages, History, Performance)
Class(es): (UA) Armorer Artificer 18
Feats: Prodigy, War Caster, Heavy Armor Master
Alignment: CG (depending on what point in the chronology you pick)

AC: 22 (plate power armor +2, shield)
HP: 129 (18d8+36)
Speed: 35 ft, swim 40 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 21 (+5), Dex 14 (+2), Con 14 (+2), Int 22 (+6), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 18 (+4)
Saves: Con +8, Int +12
Skills: Arcana +18+1d4, History +12, Medicine +6, Nature +12, Performance +10
Tools: alchemist's supplies, thieves' tools, tinker's tools, smith's tools, glassblower's tools, jeweler's tools
Senses: darkvision 60 ft, passive Perception 10
Languages: Common, Gnomish, Dwarvish, Undercommon, Giant

Spellcasting: Int-based; DC 20, attack +12.
Cantrips: mending, message, shocking grasp, resistance, fire bolt
1st level (4/day): absorb elements, alarm [R], detect magic [R], expeditious retreat, identify [R], magic missile, shield
2nd level (3/day): arcane lock, heat metal, magic weapon (1/day), mirror image, shatter
3rd level (3/day): conjure barrage, dispel magic, elemental weapon, fly, hypnotic pattern, lightning bolt, tiny servant
4th level (3/day): fabricate, fire shield, greater invisibility
5th level (1/day): creation, passwall, skill empowerment, wall of force

Artisan's Intuition: +1d4 to Arcana and artisan's tools checks
Magical Tinkering: ribbon
Armor Model - Infiltrator: no disadvantage to Stealth, can wear under clothing; use armor as arcane focus; can use smith's tools to switch to Guardian ("Hulkbuster") armor model at end of short or long rest (LOSE 5 ft walking speed, lightning launcher; GAIN 18 temp hp as a bonus action)
The Right Tool for the Job: ribbon
War Caster: advantage on concentration saves, somatic components with weapons or shield, spell opportunity attack
Heavy Armor Master: bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage from nonmagical weapons reduced by 3
Spell-Storing Item: see James Rhodes
Magic Item Master: attune 6; craft common/uncommon for 50% cost, 25% time; ignore attunement requirements

Actions:

Extra Attack (2 total)
Lightning Launcher (Infiltrator mode): +14 to hit, range 90/300 ft, 1d6+8 lightning damage; target sheds 5'-radius dim light; next attack against it by another creature has advantage and deals +1d6 lightning damage; once on each of Tony's turns can deal additional +1d6 lightning damage.
Thunder Gauntlets (Hulkbuster mode): +12 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d8+6 thunder damage; target has disadvantage on attack rolls against other targets than Tony until start of Tony's next turn.

Reactions:

Flash of Genius (6/long rest): add +6 to ability check or saving throw within 30 feet
Tractor Beam (Hulkbuster mode, 6/long rest): when creature ends turn within 30 feet, pull it 30 feet closer (Strength save DC 20 negates) and smack it with a 5-ft melee weapon attack

Magic Items:

Goggles of Night
Cap of Water Breathing: create bubble of air around head underwater
Ring of Swimming
Orb of Time: ribbon
Sending Stones [x5]
*(Infusion) Helm of Awareness: advantage on initiative, can't be surprised unless incapacitated
*(Infusion) Belt of Hill Giant Strength
*(Infusion) Gem of Seeing: 3 charges (+1d3 at dawn); command word: truesight 120 ft for 10 minutes
*(Infusion) Winged Boots: 240 charges (+120 when not used for 12 hours); fly speed equal to walking speed, drains 1 charge each minute
*(Infusion) Periapt of Wound Closure: automatically stabilize; double healing from Hit Dice
*Wand of Fireballs in (Infusion) Wand Sheath: extend or retract wand as a bonus action, hand remains free; 7 charges (+1d6+1 at dawn); fireball (save DC 15) for one charge (8d6 fire damage), +1d6 damage per additional charge spent
(used) Tome of Clear Thought

[Draz74]

Bruce Banner

Base Ability Scores: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 13
Race: Half-Orc
Background: Scientist (Researcher, one language, tinker's tools, Arcana, Investigation)
Class(es): Zealot Barbarian 15 / (UA) Giant Soul Sorcerer 3 / Fighter 2
Feats: Tavern Brawler, Orcish Fury
Alignment: CN (Hulk), NG (Bruce)

AC: 18 (unarmored defense)
HP: 237 (15d12+3d6+2d10+103)
Speed: 40 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 29 (+9), Dex 16 (+3), Con 20 (+5), Int 20 (+5), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 13 (+1)
Saves: Str +15, Con +11
Skills: Arcana +11, Athletics +15, Intimidation +7, Investigation +11, Medicine +13, Nature +17, Perception +7
Tools: tinker's tools
Senses: darkvision 60 ft, passive Perception 17
Languages: Common, Orc, Draconic

Spellcasting: Cha-based; DC 15, attack +7.
Cantrips: blade ward, friends, mold earth, shillelagh, true strike
1st level (4/day): absorb elements, earth tremor, expeditious retreat, heroism
2nd level (2/day): alter self, enlarge/reduce

Font of Magic (3 sorcery points/long rest):

bonus action spend 2 sorcery points to gain 1st-level spell slot
bonus action spend 3 sorcery points to gain 2nd-level spell slot
bonus action spend a spell slot to gain sorcery points equal to its level (can only have 3 points maximum)
spend 2 sorcery points to gain advantage on ability check on his turn
Metamagic - Extended Spell: 1 sorcery point to double duration of a spell (that already has a duration of 1 minute or longer, max 24 hours)
Metamagic - Quickened Spell: 2 sorcery points to cast a 1-action spell as a bonus action

Relentless Endurance (1/long rest): drop to 1 hp instead of 0
Savage Attacks/Brutal Critical: add three weapon dice to the damage of a critical
Rage (5/long rest): bonus action to start or stop; lasts 1 minute or until unconscious; can't concentrate or cast spells; advantage on Strength checks and Strength saves; +3 melee (Strength) damage; resistance to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage
Reckless Attack: advantage on melee (Strength) attacks on his own turn; grant advantage on attacks against him until next turn
Divine Fury: first weapon hit on each of his turns while raging deals an extra 1d6+7 necrotic damage
Warrior of the Gods: no material component necessary to bring him back from death
Tavern Brawler: proficient with improvised weapons; bonus action grapple after unarmed strike or improvised hit
Fanatical Focus (1/rage): reroll failed saving throw, must use new roll
Feral Instinct: advantage on initiative; act in surprise round by raging first
Zealous Presence (1/long rest): bonus action; up to 10 creatures that can hear within 60 ft gain advantage on attacks and saves until start of his next turn
Relentless Rage: drop to 1 hp instead of 0 with DC 10 Constitution save; DC increases by +5 every use until short rest
Orcish Fury (1/short rest): add one weapon die to damage of simple/martial weapon attack
Rage Beyond Death: keep fighting while dying or dead as long as rage lasts; only die at end of rage if still at 0 hp
Second Wind (1/short rest): bonus action regain 1d10+2 hp
Unarmed Fighting Style: deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage with a grapple or whenever hitting creature grappled by him with melee attack
Action Surge (1/short rest): take an additional action on his turn

Actions:

Extra Attack (2 total)
Unarmed Strike: +15 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d6+9 bludgeoning damage.
Unarmed Strike (2-handed): +15 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d8+9 bludgeoning damage.
Unarmed Strike (raging): +15 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d6+12 bludgeoning damage.
Unarmed Strike (raging, 2-handed): +15 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d8+12 bludgeoning damage.
Imbuing Touch: spend 2 sorcery points to make a weapon magical for 1 minute
Sorcerous Fortitude: spend X sorcery points to gain Xd4 temporary hp

Reactions:

Orcish Fury: when using Relentless Endurance, make a weapon attack

Magic Items:

*Belt of Storm Giant Strength
*Boots of Striding and Springing: triple jump distances

[Damon_Tor]

Part of the problem here is how poorly super-human strength is modeled using the 5e system. Hulk and Thor can throw tanks around. But even the highest strength levels leave them barely above "peak human" in terms of their lifting ability.

5e has a linear progression of stats, while any superhero game will require an exponential progression, where each level of that stat represents an order of magnitude above the last, where a str 8 character is 1.5 times as strong as a str 7 character who is 1.5 times as strong as a str 6 character, so by the time you got to str 30 you'd have a guy who can punch planets apart.

Of course you also need a system designed to allow for characters of vastly different power level to play together. The Avengers movies do this by multi-tasking. Thor and Hulk are given huge space sharks to fight, Ironman dogfights with aliens on space-planes while the others fight alien infantry. Effectively they all have their own little mini-encounters.

[Draz74]

Part of the problem here is how poorly super-human strength is modeled using the 5e system. Hulk and Thor can throw tanks around. But even the highest strength levels leave them barely above "peak human" in terms of their lifting ability.

5e has a linear progression of stats, while any superhero game will require an exponential progression, where each level of that stat represents an order of magnitude above the last, where a str 8 character is 1.5 times as strong as a str 7 character who is 1.5 times as strong as a str 6 character, so by the time you got to str 30 you'd have a guy who can punch planets apart.
Oh, if I were trying to accurately represent what the superhero characters can do, absolutely. Like I said in the OP, I'm very familiar with building M&M characters. But this thread is supposed to be "what if they got converted into a D&D universe."


Of course you also need a system designed to allow for characters of vastly different power level to play together. The Avengers movies do this by multi-tasking. Thor and Hulk are given huge space sharks to fight, Ironman dogfights with aliens on space-planes while the others fight alien infantry. Effectively they all have their own little mini-encounters.
Sure, if anyone were to actually play an Avengers campaign with my builds, then the DM would need to be skilled at doing this.

[Damon_Tor]

Carol Danvers

I think there's a strong argument for anyone who gets their powers from an Infinity Stone (both Carol and Wanda) being a type of Warlock: the Infinity Stones are intelligent beings with goals an motives of their own, and so are "patrons" in D&D terms. Which patron best represents them would vary by stone: Mind Stone would be a Great Old One, while the Space Stone is probably closest to a Hexblade.

Giving Carol (and Wanda) levels of sorcerer makes sense too though: Carol's powers are partly due to having alien heritage, Wanda... well look, we KNOW they're making mutants a thing, it's only a matter of time (ie WandaVision) until we understand her special bloodline better.

And of course, giving two of the MCUs heaviest hitters one of the more OP multiclass combos is a big bonus.

For Carol, it doesn't hurt that this better reflects her power levels than a Sun Soul monk would, and it lets you neatly avoid the problem of lacking at-will flight. If she feels like punching things just have her use Alter Self to make a natural weapon, say it's her fist getting all glowy, then cast Booming Blade. Quicken/Twin it as needed. See what happens if you try to make the natural weapon from Alter Self your Pact Blade (it is a magic weapon while under the effects of Alter Self) and get Eldritch Smite. Her defenses are well taken care of with nigh-at-will Absorb Elements and Shield: as a sorcerer/warlock you effectively have infinite spell slots to work with. She can quicken Blade Ward too, to represent her really focusing on keeping her shields up if she thinks Thanos is going to headbutt her.

For Carol's race go half-elf. Obviously "Kree" or "Half-Kree" aren't races that are available in D&D, so the next best hybrid option works well, and it just so happens to be ideal for a sorlock. Tiefling works fine for Wanda though.

So my Carol Danvers build would be:

Draconic Ancestry Sorcerer (Fire) 15- Draconic Ancestry gives us at-will flight, extra HP, and extra unarmored AC. Spells are entirely personal defenses and blasts, maybe a touch of divination stuff to model her "cosmic awareness"
Hexblade Warlock (Pact of the Blade) 5- Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, Agonizing Blast
Start with 17 Cha, 16 Dex, 16 Con. At level 4 take Elven Accuracy (and 18 cha) so you can critfish more effectively with your smite. At level 8 you max cha, at level 12 you move to con 18 and at 19 you get con 20.

[col_impact]

How could the Hulk be anything but a Paladin 2/ Moon Druid X/ Barbarian 0-3/ Monk 0-3/ Warlock 0-2?

Rage and Smite baby on a self-healing green-furred Polar Bear chassis. At higher levels its on a green skinned Earth Elemental chassis. Now that is HULK SMASH, baby!

I like having him be a Kobold - flavored as a nerdy scientist!

[col_impact]

I think there's a strong argument for anyone who gets their powers from an Infinity Stone (both Carol and Wanda) being a type of Warlock: the Infinity Stones are intelligent beings with goals an motives of their own, and so are "patrons" in D&D terms. Which patron best represents them would vary by stone: Mind Stone would be a Great Old One, while the Space Stone is probably closest to a Hexblade.

Giving Carol (and Wanda) levels of sorcerer makes sense too though: Carol's powers are partly due to having alien heritage, Wanda... well look, we KNOW they're making mutants a thing, it's only a matter of time (ie WandaVision) until we understand her special bloodline better.

And of course, giving two of the MCUs heaviest hitters one of the more OP multiclass combos is a big bonus.

For Carol, it doesn't hurt that this better reflects her power levels than a Sun Soul monk would, and it lets you neatly avoid the problem of lacking at-will flight. If she feels like punching things just have her use Alter Self to make a natural weapon, say it's her fist getting all glowy, then cast Booming Blade. Quicken/Twin it as needed. See what happens if you try to make the natural weapon from Alter Self your Pact Blade (it is a magic weapon while under the effects of Alter Self) and get Eldritch Smite. Her defenses are well taken care of with nigh-at-will Absorb Elements and Shield: as a sorcerer/warlock you effectively have infinite spell slots to work with. She can quicken Blade Ward too, to represent her really focusing on keeping her shields up if she thinks Thanos is going to headbutt her.

For Carol's race go half-elf. Obviously "Kree" or "Half-Kree" aren't races that are available in D&D, so the next best hybrid option works well, and it just so happens to be ideal for a sorlock. Tiefling works fine for Wanda though.

So my Carol Danvers build would be:

Draconic Ancestry Sorcerer (Fire) 15- Draconic Ancestry gives us at-will flight, extra HP, and extra unarmored AC. Spells are entirely personal defenses and blasts, maybe a touch of divination stuff to model her "cosmic awareness"
Hexblade Warlock (Pact of the Blade) 5- Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, Agonizing Blast
Start with 17 Cha, 16 Dex, 16 Con. At level 4 take Elven Accuracy (and 18 cha) so you can critfish more effectively with your smite. At level 8 you max cha, at level 12 you move to con 18 and at 19 you get con 20.

X Divine Soul Sorceror/ 1-3 Celestial Warlock/ 0-2 Paladin --> ponder on that. Now that is Captain Marvel!

For a race I would choose a flying angel one.

[Draz74]

I think there's a strong argument for anyone who gets their powers from an Infinity Stone (both Carol and Wanda) being a type of Warlock: the Infinity Stones are intelligent beings with goals an motives of their own, and so are "patrons" in D&D terms. Which patron best represents them would vary by stone: Mind Stone would be a Great Old One, while the Space Stone is probably closest to a Hexblade.
Interesting. I think I like this. I'm not sure the Stones are intelligent in the MCU like they are in the comics, but ... they could be. I could see them as patrons.


Giving Carol (and Wanda) levels of sorcerer makes sense too though: Carol's powers are partly due to having alien heritage, Wanda... well look, we KNOW they're making mutants a thing, it's only a matter of time (ie WandaVision) until we understand her special bloodline better.

And of course, giving two of the MCUs heaviest hitters one of the more OP multiclass combos is a big bonus.

For Carol, it doesn't hurt that this better reflects her power levels than a Sun Soul monk would, and it lets you neatly avoid the problem of lacking at-will flight. If she feels like punching things just have her use Alter Self to make a natural weapon, say it's her fist getting all glowy, then cast Booming Blade. Quicken/Twin it as needed.
Hmmmm. I've pondered on this for a couple hours now, and ... it doesn't sit right with me. She's a martial artist, at least in her early levels. Just faking that with spells doesn't feel right. And considering the mixed reaction she's gotten from the other MCU heroes (and the fanbase), I wonder if it's more flavor-appropriate for her to be Wisdom-based rather than Charisma-based (which, hmmm, maybe vetoes the Hexblade idea).


See what happens if you try to make the natural weapon from Alter Self your Pact Blade (it is a magic weapon while under the effects of Alter Self)
While this whole project is pretty cheesy, I'm trying to limit it to cheese that I as a DM would allow if I were to actually run a campaign like this. And I don't think making a natural weapon (temporary, at that) into your Pact Weapon is within the letter OR the spirit of the rules.


and get Eldritch Smite. Her defenses are well taken care of with nigh-at-will Absorb Elements and Shield: as a sorcerer/warlock you effectively have infinite spell slots to work with. She can quicken Blade Ward too, to represent her really focusing on keeping her shields up if she thinks Thanos is going to headbutt her.
Eh, it doesn't seem like the right style of defense. I think I liked better her having just massive HP and proficiency (and rerolls) in all saves.


For Carol's race go half-elf. Obviously "Kree" or "Half-Kree" aren't races that are available in D&D, so the next best hybrid option works well, and it just so happens to be ideal for a sorlock. Tiefling works fine for Wanda though.
If I do go with a Charisma-based build, Half-Elf is fine.


So my Carol Danvers build would be:

Draconic Ancestry Sorcerer (Fire) 15- Draconic Ancestry gives us at-will flight, extra HP, and extra unarmored AC. Spells are entirely personal defenses and blasts, maybe a touch of divination stuff to model her "cosmic awareness"
Hexblade Warlock (Pact of the Blade) 5- Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, Agonizing Blast
Start with 17 Cha, 16 Dex, 16 Con. At level 4 take Elven Accuracy (and 18 cha) so you can critfish more effectively with your smite. At level 8 you max cha, at level 12 you move to con 18 and at 19 you get con 20.


How could the Hulk be anything but a Paladin 2/ Moon Druid X/ Barbarian 0-3/ Monk 0-3/ Warlock 0-2?

Rage and Smite baby on a self-healing green-furred Polar Bear chassis. At higher levels its on a green skinned Earth Elemental chassis. Now that is HULK SMASH, baby!

I like having him be a Kobold - flavored as a nerdy scientist!
Heh. Banner isn't that nerdy (-2 Strength?).

Interesting. I'll ponder this some more (i.e. look up the stats on the Wild Shape forms recommended), but I don't think it feels as right to me as the (almost) pure Barbarian. Sure, the roleplayer could just ignore their spell list and use all their spell slots on Smite and self-healing, but the main problem is that he would have to be in weakling/useless humanoid form some of the time. And that doesn't feel like it should be a weakness of Hulk, even though I'm not trying to exactly simulate how long he can stay in Hulk form.

Granted, the Barbarian can run out of Rage, too, if it takes any Fighter levels. But at least the Barbarian without Rage can HULK SMASH semi-effectively. The nerdy druid who's run out of Wild Shape and refuses to use spells? Not so much.


X Divine Soul Sorceror/ 1-3 Celestial Warlock/ 0-2 Paladin --> ponder on that. Now that is Captain Marvel!
I like that a little better than the Sorcerer 15 / Warlock 5 build, but ... there's still the fact mentioned above, that I don't feel like she should have extremely high Charisma.

Maybe I'm just wrong about that. Charisma isn't just likeability.

For the sake of argument, if you guys were to build her with at least some levels of Monk, what else would she have? I'm not 100% set on that (in fact, I'd like to give her light armor), but it's still what I'm leaning toward for now.


For a race I would choose a flying angel one.
I would totally agree, except that such a thing doesn't exist in 5e. The closest is a Protector Aasimar, which I considered, but it can only fly for 1 minute per long rest.

[RSP]

Loki is a level 20 Lore Bard.

[Draz74]

Loki is a level 20 Lore Bard.

That's not a crazy suggestion.

Although as I've thought about it more, he needs at least 2 levels of Trickery Cleric.

[col_impact]

Heh. Banner isn't that nerdy (-2 Strength?).

Interesting. I'll ponder this some more (i.e. look up the stats on the Wild Shape forms recommended), but I don't think it feels as right to me as the (almost) pure Barbarian. Sure, the roleplayer could just ignore their spell list and use all their spell slots on Smite and self-healing, but the main problem is that he would have to be in weakling/useless humanoid form some of the time. And that doesn't feel like it should be a weakness of Hulk, even though I'm not trying to exactly simulate how long he can stay in Hulk form.

Granted, the Barbarian can run out of Rage, too, if it takes any Fighter levels. But at least the Barbarian without Rage can HULK SMASH semi-effectively. The nerdy druid who's run out of Wild Shape and refuses to use spells? Not so much.


You are pulling my leg, right? You are critiquing my build for the very things that define the Hulk in the comics. Bruce Banner is a weakling who doesn't have total control over when he changes. As a scientist he can come up with some pseudo-magical things which is well emulated by druid spells. Scientists = spell casters.

Further, my suggested build would completely dominate yours 1 on 1. Earth Elemental with Smite and Rage and Siege. Cast Regeneration. Color him green. Let that sink in!

Ape form is the go to one if you really want to look like the Hulk. What is he but a green ape?

[col_impact]

I would totally agree, except that such a thing doesn't exist in 5e. The closest is a Protector Aasimar, which I considered, but it can only fly for 1 minute per long rest.

At 5th level Aasimar's can choose full-time wings.

[Draz74]

You are pulling my leg, right? You are critiquing my build for the very things that define the Hulk in the comics. Bruce Banner is a weakling who doesn't have total control over when he changes. As a scientist he can come up with some pseudo-magical things which is well emulated by druid spells. Scientists = spell casters.
I'm no expert on the comics, but in the MCU, Banner isn't that much of a weakling, and in fact is decent at Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

I take back the objection about how often he'll be stuck in humanoid form, as I was misremembering what kind of rest is needed to regain Wild Shape uses. I thought it was 2/long rest ... whoops.

But on the other hand, as a Moon Druid, if Hulk gets beaten up so much that he has to revert to Banner form, he'll still be at full Druid HP and be able to put up a decent fight if he's willing to use spells. Whereas as a Barbarian, he only "reverts" if he gets beaten unconscious. The latter feels a lot more in-character.

Even in Iron Man's case, I'm a little uncomfortable with how versatile D&D spellcasting is (in six-second increments!) compared to what a scientist can pull off, even in comic books. Druid spellcasting would be even harder to re-fluff to be super-science, and Banner isn't supposed to be as much of a super-science wizard as Stark.


Further, my suggested build would completely dominate yours 1 on 1. Earth Elemental with Smite and Rage and Siege. Cast Regeneration.
OK, now you're pulling my leg. My build is Level 20. Yours is too, but it can only melee effectively while wild shaped into a creature with a CR of 5.

Defenses: the Barbarian build has at least 243 HP and 18 AC. The wildshaped version has 126 HP, 17 AC. And 1-2 times per day if it casts Regeneration beforehand it can regenerate 1 HP per round for an hour. Wooo. There are more details to both builds' defenses (including vulnerability to thunder damage for the elemental), but I think these numbers speak for themselves.

Offenses: granted, the wildshaped Druid/Paladin can "go nova" a lot more effectively, burning spell slots to do much faster damage than the Barbarian. But he has to hit to be able to Smite ... and he has a +8 attack roll. The Barbarian build has a +15, or a +13 even if I decided against using a Belt magic item for some reason. And without Smite, they deal about the same amount of damage per hit, with the same number of attacks per round. Siege is cute, but doesn't enter into a 1v1 contest much.


Color him green. Let that sink in!

Ape form is the go to one if you really want to look like the Hulk. What is he but a green ape?
Eh, appearance is like the easiest thing to re-fluff. I'm fine with the Earth Elemental as far as that goes. Besides, I assume you mean the Giant Ape? It's too high in CR for the Moon Druid to shape into. (Pity, because it does have more convincing numbers in its stats than the Earth Ele.)

Btw, enormous leaps are a pretty important power for Hulk. Is there a good way for your build to emulate that? Because the Earth Elemental's 8-foot running high jump doesn't really impress.

I do appreciate you offering the Druid alternative, and it's been fun to ponder it and compare, but I think I like the Barbarian translation of the character better.


At 5th level Aasimar's can choose full-time wings.

Where's that from? I just reviewed the Aasimar entry in Volo's, and didn't see such a thing anywhere. But you're right, if that's a thing I'll probably go with it for Danvers's race.

[col_impact]

Regarding my Hulk. At level 20 the dude is a flying green angel who has ##DOUBLE SMITE## unlocked. If I dip a level in life cleric I get REGENERATE 10##. And don't get me started on out of combat healing potential with my ##GREATBERRIES##. Sorry dude my hulk smash your hulk very mucho.

And Jump is on Druid spell list. How hulky is that.

Plus Banner can pull gamma ray spells against you, like Conjure Fey, Banishment, or Plane Shift.

And don't forget the dude has pack tactics. There is a reason I got awakened green shrubs and awakened green trees following me around. My awakened ##REGENERATING 10## green polar bear friend (ABOMINATION) casts ##WARDING BOND## on me via a ring of spell storing. I can even cast a scroll of ##DEATH WARD##.

And every now and then Banner summons a bunch of gamma rayed green beasts and then shifts into Hulk, or sometimes Banner makes a pit of spikes! Heck, Banner wins half the battles.

[Draz74]

First off, I still want to know about the aasimar wings at Level 5 thing.


Regarding my Hulk. At level 20 the dude is a flying green angel who has DOUBLE SMITE unlocked. If I dip a level in life cleric I get regeneration 10. Sorry dude my hulk smash your hulk very mucho.
"flying green angel" -- please explain.

"double smite" -- I assume you mean Eldritch Smite? That requires three levels of Warlock. Your build only had "0-2." Of course you can change your mind on that, but now you're talking about a Hulk who's using a Pact Weapon instead of unarmed strikes, which makes me like the flavor of adding Warlock even less. And with 2 levels in Paladin, 3 in Barbarian, and 3 in Warlock, you only have 12 left for Druid, which isn't even enough to cast Regeneration.

"Level in Life Cleric" -- yeah, pardon me for not considering that since it wasn't listed in your build summary before. Now you've added another class that will take a level away from Druid and require a lot more re-fluffing to make you Hulk-ish. Plus I'm not 100% sure I as a DM would allow the Life Cleric ability to apply more than once to a single casting of Regeneration, even if it's RAW.

Yeah, your build can probably whoop mine if it's going nova with double-smites, regenerating 10 HP/round, and fighting with spells while not Wild Shaped. But that doesn't do a lot to convince me that it should be a representation of Bruce Banner.


And Jump is on Druid spell list. How hulky is that.
Jump lasts 1 minute, can't be re-cast while you're Wild Shaped, and increases your Earth Elemental's high jump to 24 feet, which is a lot better but still not as good as the Barbarian with Eagle Totemic Attunement.


Plus Banner can pull gamma ray spells against you, like Banishment or Plane Shift.

And don't forget the dude has pack tactics. There is a reason I got shrubs and trees following me around.

And every now and then Banner summons a bunch of gamma rayed green beasts and then shifts into Hulk, or sometimes Banner makes a pit of spikes!

... yeah, the character you're describing is sounding less and less Hulk-ish to me the more you describe it.

[col_impact]

Shapeshift. Read it. Meditate on its potential. My build just destroys yours.

And read the comics for crying out loud. Banner is a gamma ray scientist who specializes in changing things into other things. Polymorph is his signature move in the comics. He has droids following him around in the labs. And Awakened fauna and flora.

My Hulk is flat out better built and truer to concept.

Or how about a green Marilith for a little smiting cuisinart action! I just fluff that as ##BERZERKER BARRAGE##

[Draz74]

Shapeshift. Read it. Meditate on its potential. My build just destroys yours.
What's Shapeshift?

If you mean Shapechange, the level 9 spell ... yeah, that's a powerful spell. As long as you don't get your Concentration broken. And, oh wait, it requires 17 levels of Druid. So ... which levels are you dropping from Paladin 2 / Barbarian 3 / Cleric 1 / Warlock 3?


And read the comics for crying out loud. Banner is a gamma ray scientist who specializes in changing things into other things. Polymorph is his signature move in the comics. He has droids following him around in the labs. And Awakened fauna and flora.

My Hulk is flat out better built and truer to concept.

For at least the third time, I'm not trying to mirror the comics. I'm not a big enough fan of them, and I freely admit that. I'm trying for the MCU here. In which Banner is a pretty mundane genius when he's not the Hulk.

[col_impact]

What's Shapeshift?

If you mean Shapechange, the level 9 spell ... yeah, that's a powerful spell. As long as you don't get your Concentration broken. And, oh wait, it requires 17 levels of Druid. So ... which levels are you dropping from Paladin 2 / Barbarian 3 / Cleric 1 / Warlock 3?



For at least the third time, I'm not trying to mirror the comics. I'm not a big enough fan of them, and I freely admit that. I'm trying for the MCU here. In which Banner is a pretty mundane genius when he's not the Hulk.

You are bizarro in your argument. How can you capture the MCU without emulating the comics? How can you post a HULK build and not read the comics??!!!

So far the build described is Paladin 2/ Life Cleric 1/ Moon Druid 17 kobold who heals like crazy and punches like Hercules.

I also have a War mage 2/ Life Cleric 1/ Shepherd Druid 17 vHuman. But the latter is usually Aquaman/Submariner.

[ProsecutorGodot]

You are bizarro in your argument. How can you capture the MCU without emulating the comics.

MCU stands for Marvel Cinematic Universe, as in the comics aren't directly involved until they've been adapted to film. Emulating the comics goes against the experiment here.

My only complaint, and it's very minor, I think Tony Stark is a bit more charismatic than a 15. He'd definitely have proficiency in Performance over Persuasion as well, as I don't think he's necessarily about convincing people to accept his ideas, he expects them to and will make a show about proving that to them. That isn't to say that he can't be persuasive, just that it's more a consequence of his force of personality than any deliberate efforts to be persuasive.

[col_impact]

Banner is no mundane genius. What did he do in the last Avengers?

[Draz74]

MCU stands for Marvel Cinematic Universe, as in the comics aren't directly involved until they've been adapted to film. Emulating the comics goes against the experiment here.
Thanks for clarifying that. I was assuming the meaning of MCU was understood, but that was a dumb assumption. I'm usually better at communicating through misunderstandings than that.


My only complaint, and it's very minor, I think Tony Stark is a bit more charismatic than a 15.
With a racial boost I actually gave him 16 rather than 15, but it sounds like you'd still like it higher?


He'd definitely have proficiency in Performance over Persuasion as well, as I don't think he's necessarily about convincing people to accept his ideas, he expects them to and will make a show about proving that to them. That isn't to say that he can't be persuasive, just that it's more a consequence of his force of personality than any deliberate efforts to be persuasive.
Will consider. When I chose Persuasion for him, I was definitely thinking specifically of the scene with him offering Loki a drink and a truce in The Avengers. Although even there, I suppose it could be argued that was more a very civil Intimidation check than a Persuasion check.


So far the build described is Paladin 2/ Life Cleric 1/ Moon Druid 17 kobold who heals like crazy and punches like Hercules.
Amusingly, even your "weakling kobold" version of Banner has to have at least 13 Strength so that he can multiclass out of Paladin. :smallbiggrin:


Banner is no mundane genius. What did he do in the last Avengers?
In combat? Not much; in fact, that's a major complaint from some segments of the fanbase.

Out of combat? He built a time machine, in a matter of weeks and with some crucial help from Tony's genius; and he survived using an uber-powerful artifact that has nothing to do with his class features. And the time machine, I thought was better represented by Tinker's Tools proficiency and a super good Nature or Arcana skill rather than by any spellcasting.

[col_impact]

The task was capture the spirit of the character HULK which I did.

Plus the spirit of Stan Lee aproves of my build.

Plus my build just destroys your build.

Plus my build is hecka fun to play and when you play it you feel like a superhero doing Hulk things and saving the day with Banner magico-scientifico gamma ray spellness.

Your build just plays like a Barbarian. ##YAWN##. Conan.

Nice Conan build.

[Zonugal]

This is what I wrote up myself for the Hulk.

It utilizes a Moon Druid but that's because the most important part of the Hulk, to me, is him transforming from a physically weak scholar to a strong monster. I don't particularly like having Bruce Banner/The Hulk represented with Barbarian for two reasons: you really can't portray the transformation (the build will always have a good strength score at all times) and that rage doesn't last long enough time. A rage lasts for one minute (till 15th level), while wildshape lasts a number of hours equal to half your druid level (rounded down).

For the spells I focused on healing, divination, & ritual spells as to represent his scientific background. He's still a guy that Tony Stark would collaborate with due to being able to cast spells like Awaken but I wanted his spells to have no real combat applications (as he'll never be casting them in combat due to wild-shape).

Bruce Banner
‘Haunted One’ Rock Gnome Artificer 2/‘Circle of the Moon’ Druid 10
Small humanoid (gnome), Chaotic Good
AC: 11; HP: 87 (12d8+24); Speed: 25 ft.; Saving Throws: Constitution +6 & Intelligence +7
Str 8 (-1), Dex 12 (+1), Con 14 (+2), Int 16 (+3), Wis 16 (+3), Cha 10 (+0)
Skills: Arcana +7, Investigation +7, Medicine +7, & Nature +7
Feats: Healer & Sentinel
Tool Proficiencies: Herbalism Kit, Thieves’ Tools, & Tinkers Tools
Armor/Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Weapons; Light/Medium Armors & Shields
Senses: passive Perception 13; darkvision (60 ft.)
Languages: Common, Druidic, Gnomish, & Primordial
Special Abilities
Racial Abilities: Artificer Lore, Darkvision (60 ft.), Gnome Cunning, & Tinker
Background Abilities: Heart of Darkness
Class Abilities: Magical Tinkering, Ritual Casting (Artificer), Spellcasting (Artificer), Infuse Item, Ritual Casting (Druid), Spellcasting (Druid), Wild Shape (twice/rest; 5 hours), Druid Circle (Circle of the Moon), Combat Wild Shape, Circle Forms (CR 3), Primal Strike, & Elemental Wild Shape
---
Actions
Unarmed Strike. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: +0 (1d1-1) bludgeoning damage
---
Artificer Spells -- Bruce Banner’s spellcasting ability is Intelligence-based (spell save DC 15)
Cantrips Known (at will) -- Guidance & Prestidigitation
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Alarm(R), Detect Magic(R), Identify(R), & Sanctuary
Druid Spells -- Bruce Banner’s spellcasting ability is Wisdom-based (spell save DC 15)
Cantrips Known (at will) -- Magic Stone, Mending, Resistance, & Shillelagh
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Cure Wounds, Detect Poison and Disease(R), Goodberry, & Speak With Animals(R)
2nd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Enhance Ability, Lesser Restoration, Locate Animals or Plants(R)
3rd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Dispel Magic, & Plant Growth
4th-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Locate Creature & Stone Shape
5th-level Spells Prepared (2/long rest) -- Commune With Nature(R) & Greater Restoration
---
Artificer Infusions
Infusions Known: Replicate Magic Item: Alchemy Jug, Replicate Magic Item: Bag of Holding, Replicate Magic Item: Prosthetic Limb, Replicate Magic Item: Sending Stones
Infused Items: Alchemy Jug & Sending Stones

The Hulk
‘Haunted One’ Rock Gnome Artificer 2/‘Circle of the Moon’ Druid 10
Large Elemental, Chaotic Good
AC: 17 (natural armor); HP: 126 (12d10+60); Speed: 30 ft., burrow 30 ft.; Saving Throws: Constitution +9 & Intelligence +7
Str 20 (+5), Dex 8 (-1), Con 20 (+5), Int 16 (+3), Wis 16 (+3), Cha 10 (+0)
Damage Vulnerabilities: Thunder
Damage Resistances: Bludgeoning, piercing, & slashing from nonmagical attacks
Damage Immunities: Poison
Condition Immunities: Exhaustion, Paralyzed, Petrified, Poisoned, Unconscious
Skills: Arcana +7, Investigation +7, Medicine +7, & Nature +7
Feats: Healer & Sentinel
Tool Proficiencies: Herbalism Kit, Thieves’ Tools, & Tinkers Tools
Armor/Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Weapons; Light/Medium Armors & Shields
Senses: passive Perception 13; darkvision (60 ft.), tremorsense 60 ft.
Languages: Common, Druidic, Gnomish, & Primordial
Special Abilities
Racial Abilities: Artificer Lore, Darkvision (60 ft.), Gnome Cunning, & Tinker
Background Abilities: Heart of Darkness
Class Abilities: Magical Tinkering, Ritual Casting (Artificer), Spellcasting (Artificer), Infuse Item, Ritual Casting (Druid), Spellcasting (Druid), Wild Shape (twice/rest; 5 hours), Druid Circle (Circle of the Moon), Combat Wild Shape, Circle Forms (CR 3), Primal Strike, & Elemental Wild Shape
Monster Abilities: Earth Glide & Siege Monster
---
Actions
Multiattack. The Hulk makes two slam attacks
Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 14 (2d8+5) bludgeoning damage

[Lvl45DM!]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?587775-Archetypes-Assemble!-(5e-Avengers)

Just throwing it out there, a couple of guys put a lot of work into making Archetypes for 5e Avengers.

[col_impact]

This is what I wrote up myself for the Hulk.

It utilizes a Moon Druid but that's because the most important part of the Hulk, to me, is him transforming from a physically weak scholar to a strong monster. I don't particularly like having Bruce Banner/The Hulk represented with Barbarian for two reasons: you really can't portray the transformation (the build will always have a good strength score at all times) and that rage doesn't last long enough time. A rage lasts for one minute (till 15th level), while wildshape lasts a number of hours equal to half your druid level (rounded down).

For the spells I focused on healing, divination, & ritual spells as to represent his scientific background. He's still a guy that Tony Stark would collaborate with due to being able to cast spells like Awaken but I wanted his spells to have no real combat applications (as he'll never be casting them in combat due to wild-shape).

Bruce Banner
‘Haunted One’ Rock Gnome Artificer 2/‘Circle of the Moon’ Druid 10
Small humanoid (gnome), Chaotic Good
AC: 11; HP: 87 (12d8+24); Speed: 25 ft.; Saving Throws: Constitution +6 & Intelligence +7
Str 8 (-1), Dex 12 (+1), Con 14 (+2), Int 16 (+3), Wis 16 (+3), Cha 10 (+0)
Skills: Arcana +7, Investigation +7, Medicine +7, & Nature +7
Feats: Healer & Sentinel
Tool Proficiencies: Herbalism Kit, Thieves’ Tools, & Tinkers Tools
Armor/Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Weapons; Light/Medium Armors & Shields
Senses: passive Perception 13; darkvision (60 ft.)
Languages: Common, Druidic, Gnomish, & Primordial
Special Abilities
Racial Abilities: Artificer Lore, Darkvision (60 ft.), Gnome Cunning, & Tinker
Background Abilities: Heart of Darkness
Class Abilities: Magical Tinkering, Ritual Casting (Artificer), Spellcasting (Artificer), Infuse Item, Ritual Casting (Druid), Spellcasting (Druid), Wild Shape (twice/rest; 5 hours), Druid Circle (Circle of the Moon), Combat Wild Shape, Circle Forms (CR 3), Primal Strike, & Elemental Wild Shape
---
Actions
Unarmed Strike. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: +0 (1d1-1) bludgeoning damage
---
Artificer Spells -- Bruce Banner’s spellcasting ability is Intelligence-based (spell save DC 15)
Cantrips Known (at will) -- Guidance & Prestidigitation
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Alarm(R), Detect Magic(R), Identify(R), & Sanctuary
Druid Spells -- Bruce Banner’s spellcasting ability is Wisdom-based (spell save DC 15)
Cantrips Known (at will) -- Magic Stone, Mending, Resistance, & Shillelagh
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Cure Wounds, Detect Poison and Disease(R), Goodberry, & Speak With Animals(R)
2nd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Enhance Ability, Lesser Restoration, Locate Animals or Plants(R)
3rd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Dispel Magic, & Plant Growth
4th-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Locate Creature & Stone Shape
5th-level Spells Prepared (2/long rest) -- Commune With Nature(R) & Greater Restoration
---
Artificer Infusions
Infusions Known: Replicate Magic Item: Alchemy Jug, Replicate Magic Item: Bag of Holding, Replicate Magic Item: Prosthetic Limb, Replicate Magic Item: Sending Stones
Infused Items: Alchemy Jug & Sending Stones

The Hulk
‘Haunted One’ Rock Gnome Artificer 2/‘Circle of the Moon’ Druid 10
Large Elemental, Chaotic Good
AC: 17 (natural armor); HP: 126 (12d10+60); Speed: 30 ft., burrow 30 ft.; Saving Throws: Constitution +9 & Intelligence +7
Str 20 (+5), Dex 8 (-1), Con 20 (+5), Int 16 (+3), Wis 16 (+3), Cha 10 (+0)
Damage Vulnerabilities: Thunder
Damage Resistances: Bludgeoning, piercing, & slashing from nonmagical attacks
Damage Immunities: Poison
Condition Immunities: Exhaustion, Paralyzed, Petrified, Poisoned, Unconscious
Skills: Arcana +7, Investigation +7, Medicine +7, & Nature +7
Feats: Healer & Sentinel
Tool Proficiencies: Herbalism Kit, Thieves’ Tools, & Tinkers Tools
Armor/Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Weapons; Light/Medium Armors & Shields
Senses: passive Perception 13; darkvision (60 ft.), tremorsense 60 ft.
Languages: Common, Druidic, Gnomish, & Primordial
Special Abilities
Racial Abilities: Artificer Lore, Darkvision (60 ft.), Gnome Cunning, & Tinker
Background Abilities: Heart of Darkness
Class Abilities: Magical Tinkering, Ritual Casting (Artificer), Spellcasting (Artificer), Infuse Item, Ritual Casting (Druid), Spellcasting (Druid), Wild Shape (twice/rest; 5 hours), Druid Circle (Circle of the Moon), Combat Wild Shape, Circle Forms (CR 3), Primal Strike, & Elemental Wild Shape
Monster Abilities: Earth Glide & Siege Monster
---
Actions
Multiattack. The Hulk makes two slam attacks
Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 14 (2d8+5) bludgeoning damage
Nice take. No U.A. allowed in my competitions though. But I like your ideas. Very helpful to see. Haunted one is a great choice for background.

But even so wouldn't you rather have smite so your Hulk could actually tank and smash? My green angel kobold can seriously lay on the hurt.

[Zonugal]

But even so wouldn't you rather have smite so your Hulk could actually tank and smash?

Nope! Paladin doesn't really mesh with my take on Bruce Banner and would also demand a strength of at least 13, which would nullify one of my goals for the build (str 8 --> str 20 in six seconds).

[col_impact]

Nope! Paladin doesn't really mesh with my take on Bruce Banner and would also demand a strength of at least 13, which would nullify one of my goals for the build (str 8 --> str 20 in six seconds).

Oh ok. If that is one of your design constraints.

My design constraint was he would . . . Ahem, ##HULK SMASH##

But hey everyone has different priorities. You could always give him a condition which reduces his strength while in human form lower than starting values. A crippling injury/curse/disease that prevented further advancement in paladin.

IMHO, if the Hulk can't deliver in the blows department then you sir have not built the Hulk. The central concept of the Hulk is that he smashes.

[Damon_Tor]

Hmmmm. I've pondered on this for a couple hours now, and ... it doesn't sit right with me. She's a martial artist, at least in her early levels.

As I recall, the film opens with her CO beating her soundly in hand to hand combat. We don't see much proficiency here: no rapid precise strikes that would mark her as a "monk". Hell, we see more and better unpowered hand-to-hand combat from Thor during the SHIELD break in scene in the first Thor movie than we ever see from Carol in hers. She's competent certainly; she has obviously been trained, but no more than anyone with a military background. Not everyone competant at hand to hand combat needs monk levels, and certainly not 20 of them.


Just faking that with spells doesn't feel right.

Kind of a weird place to draw the line IMO, but if it bothers you that much I would think a few levels in fighter would serve the concept better. UA has the unarmed fighting style, and it would work just fine, and you'd get more HP out of the package as well as Second Wind, so she'd be tankier right off the bat. If the hangup is wanting to use dex for unarmed strikes I've got to ask why: she's strong as heck. Let her be strong.


And considering the mixed reaction she's gotten from the other MCU heroes (and the fanbase), I wonder if it's more flavor-appropriate for her to be Wisdom-based rather than Charisma-based (which, hmmm, maybe vetoes the Hexblade idea).

Charisma is a broad concept in Dungeons and Dragons. It's intimidation at the same time as persuasion. You can have a powerful "force of personality" and not be at all likable, and Carol absolutely has a strong force of personality. And wisdom is an even worse fit: she spent half her first film being manipulated, lied to.


While this whole project is pretty cheesy, I'm trying to limit it to cheese that I as a DM would allow if I were to actually run a campaign like this. And I don't think making a natural weapon (temporary, at that) into your Pact Weapon is within the letter OR the spirit of the rules.

Fist-as-pact-weapon isn't essential.


Eh, it doesn't seem like the right style of defense. I think I liked better her having just massive HP and proficiency (and rerolls) in all saves.

You aren't going to get "massive HP" on a monk chassis anyway: you need another form of defense if you want her to be able to take hits like Captain Marvel. And for her powerset, "active defense" damage resistance spells are absolutely appropriate.


For the sake of argument, if you guys were to build her with at least some levels of Monk, what else would she have? I'm not 100% set on that (in fact, I'd like to give her light armor), but it's still what I'm leaning toward for now.

The Monk class is infamous for a lack of multiclass synergy, so there's not really anywhere else to go. If she has to be a monk, make her a Four Elements monk. Focus on fire stuff for blasting obviously, but you can get flight this way as well as stoneskin for tanking.

[Damon_Tor]

On Hulk:

If it were me, I would make him a sorcerer, for only one reason: a sorcerer can melt down all of his spell slots and make them into 4th level slots. And then, all he ever does with those spell slots is cast polymorph on himself. And he always turns himself into a Giant Ape. You don't HAVE to know more than one spell; that would be the only spell he knows.

Built in this way, you're free to do whatever you want with his stats. You could hive him str 8 and con 8 if you felt like it, int 18, whatever you wanted, but as soon as he turned into the Hulk he would get str 23, con 18, and int 6.

[col_impact]

On Hulk:

If it were me, I would make him a sorcerer, for only one reason: a sorcerer can melt down all of his spell slots and make them into 4th level slots. And then, all he ever does with those spell slots is cast polymorph on himself. And he always turns himself into a Giant Ape. You don't HAVE to know more than one spell; that would be the only spell he knows.

Built in this way, you're free to do whatever you want with his stats. You could hive him str 8 and con 8 if you felt like it, int 18, whatever you wanted, but as soon as he turned into the Hulk he would get str 23, con 18, and int 6.

Definitely a great take on the Hulk. I do like mine better. But I do admire your Chutzpah! Love it!

[Draz74]

As I recall, the film opens with her CO beating her soundly in hand to hand combat. We don't see much proficiency here: no rapid precise strikes that would mark her as a "monk". Hell, we see more and better unpowered hand-to-hand combat from Thor during the SHIELD break in scene in the first Thor movie than we ever see from Carol in hers. She's competent certainly; she has obviously been trained, but no more than anyone with a military background. Not everyone competant at hand to hand combat needs monk levels, and certainly not 20 of them.

Kind of a weird place to draw the line IMO, but if it bothers you that much I would think a few levels in fighter would serve the concept better. UA has the unarmed fighting style, and it would work just fine, and you'd get more HP out of the package as well as Second Wind, so she'd be tankier right off the bat. If the hangup is wanting to use dex for unarmed strikes I've got to ask why: she's strong as heck. Let her be strong.
Decent points. Yeah, I don't mind her being Strength-based rather than Dexterity-based. Too bad that Fighter requires a 5-level investment if I want her to be able to attack more than once per turn.


Charisma is a broad concept in Dungeons and Dragons. It's intimidation at the same time as persuasion. You can have a powerful "force of personality" and not be at all likable, and Carol absolutely has a strong force of personality. And wisdom is an even worse fit: she spent half her first film being manipulated, lied to.
Again, fair point.


Fist-as-pact-weapon isn't essential.
It seemed pretty essential to the build you were describing before. I'll see what I can come up with though.


You aren't going to get "massive HP" on a monk chassis anyway: you need another form of defense if you want her to be able to take hits like Captain Marvel. And for her powerset, "active defense" damage resistance spells are absolutely appropriate.

The Monk class is infamous for a lack of multiclass synergy, so there's not really anywhere else to go. If she has to be a monk, make her a Four Elements monk. Focus on fire stuff for blasting obviously, but you can get flight this way as well as stoneskin for tanking.
Eh, I really don't like the Four Elements take. Its flight is too limited, Stoneskin still sucks, and fire doesn't fit her blasting as well as radiant does.

I'll probably drop the whole Monk aspect, especially since the constant-flying Aasimar thing seems to be an AL-only option, according to my modest Google-fu. I'll miss Diamond Soul, though, and even Tongue of the Sun and Moon and Timeless Body.


On Hulk:

If it were me, I would make him a sorcerer, for only one reason: a sorcerer can melt down all of his spell slots and make them into 4th level slots. And then, all he ever does with those spell slots is cast polymorph on himself. And he always turns himself into a Giant Ape. You don't HAVE to know more than one spell; that would be the only spell he knows.

Built in this way, you're free to do whatever you want with his stats. You could hive him str 8 and con 8 if you felt like it, int 18, whatever you wanted, but as soon as he turned into the Hulk he would get str 23, con 18, and int 6.

Nitpick: Int 7.

Cute idea, but has some critical flaws. Foremost among them is the way his transformation would be Concentration-based, so every time he takes damage he has to roll (with only a +4 bonus) to stay as the Hulk. That's awful for the concept.

Any feedback on Black Widow's build? I want to stat her out in detail next.

[Draz74]

This is what I wrote up myself for the Hulk.

It utilizes a Moon Druid but that's because the most important part of the Hulk, to me, is him transforming from a physically weak scholar to a strong monster. I don't particularly like having Bruce Banner/The Hulk represented with Barbarian for two reasons: you really can't portray the transformation (the build will always have a good strength score at all times) and that rage doesn't last long enough time. A rage lasts for one minute (till 15th level), while wildshape lasts a number of hours equal to half your druid level (rounded down).

This has some problems too, but overall it's an ok take at Level 12. I wish it scaled better to Level 20 (Earth Elemental just isn't impressive at Level 20).

You're right about issues with the Barbarian build too, though. Sadly, even at 15th level the Barbarian's rage only lasts a minute, or five total minutes per day; a full 20 levels is required to get constant rage.

The idea behind my build is that he's not only the Hulk while raging; his transformation between Banner and Hulk was supposed to be one of pure roleplay (which has the advantage that it can be as slow or as fast as necessary: action, bonus action, reaction, or no action at all). He's the Hulk while using strong-type abilities, whether or not he's Raging; he's Banner when using smart-type abilities, mostly Skills; and it's up to the player to limit that they can't do both at the same time. (There's some suspension of disbelief here, but IMO there's just as much if he has a bunch of Druid spells that he just doesn't use optimally because they don't fit the concept.)

But maybe I should just declare that my build represents Professor Hulk from Endgame, and accept the flaws of something more transformation-based for the earlier films.

[Draz74]

Anyone point me towards a magic item that approximates the Widow's Bite decently?

Natasha Romanoff

Base Ability Scores: Str 13, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 18
Race: Variant Human
Background: Spy (Spy Contact, one gaming set, thieves' tools, Deception, Stealth)
Class(es): Assassin Rogue 9 / Open Hand Monk 5
Feats: Athlete, Prodigy, Crossbow Expert, Grappler
Alignment: NG

AC: 19 (unarmored defense)
HP: 115 (14d8+42)
Speed: 30 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 13 (+1), Dex 20 (+5), Con 16 (+3), Int 14 (+2), Wis 18 (+4), Cha 18 (+4)
Saves: Dex +10, Int +7
Skills: Acrobatics +15, Athletics +11, Deception +14, Insight +14, Investigation +7, Persuasion +9, Sleight of Hand +10, Stealth +15
Tools: playing card set, thieves' tools, forgery kit, disguise kit, poisoner's kit, land vehicles
Senses: darkvision 60 ft, passive Perception 14
Languages: Common, Goblin, Gnomish, Thieves' Cant

Ki (5/short rest):

Ki-Fueled Strike: if action used ki, make unarmed strike as bonus action
Flurry of Blows: for 1 ki, two unarmed strikes as bonus action after taking Attack action
Patient Defense: for 1 ki, dodge as bonus action
Step of the Wind: for 1 ki, disengage or dash as bonus action; jump distance doubled that turn
Distant Eye: for 1 ki, ignore long-range disadvantage to attack rolls until end of turn
Stunning Strike: for 1 ki, hit inflicts stunned until end of her next turn (Con save DC 17 negates)

Athlete: stand from prone for 5' of movement; running jump after moving 5'; climbing doesn't cost extra movement
Sneak Attack: +5d6 to damage 1/turn if using ranged or finesse or (HOUSERULE) unarmed/monk weapon; requires advantage on attack roll or adjacent enemy of target
Martial Arts: unarmed/monk weapon damage 1d4, Dexterity-based; bonus action unarmed strike after taking Attack action
Cunning Action: dash, disengage, or hide as bonus action; aim (advantage on next attack roll this turn) as bonus action if no movement during turn
Assassinate: advantage on attacks against creatures who haven't yet acted; automatic crit on surprised creatures
Open Hand Technique: on Flurry of Blows hit, impose one effect: prone (Dex save DC 17 negates); push 15' (Str save DC 17 negates); or it can't take reactions until end of her next turn
Crossbow Expert: ignore loading of proficient crossbows; make ranged attacks within 5' without disadvantage; bonus action hand crossbow attack after taking Attack action with one-handed weapon
Evasion: on Dex save for half damage, take half damage (failure) or no damage (success)
Grappler: advantage on attacks against target grappled by herself
Infiltration Expertise: for 7 days and 25 gp, establish convincing identity

Actions:

Quickened Healing: spend 2 ki to heal 1d4 hp
Pin: with successful grapple check, restrain grappled target (and self) until grapple ends
Extra Attack (2 total)
Unarmed Strike: +10 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d4+5 bludgeoning damage.
Hand Crossbows: +11 to hit, range 30/120 ft, 1d6+6 piercing damage.

Reactions:

Uncanny Dodge: when an attacker she can see hits her with an attack, halve that attack's damage
Deflect Missiles: when hit by ranged weapon attack, reduce its damage by 1d10+10; if damage reduced to 0, catch projectile; then for 1 ki, make attack with projectile as if it were 20/60-ft-range monk weapon
Slow Fall: reduce falling damage by 25

Magic Items:

Goggles of Night
[2x] Hand Crossbow +1

[Zonugal]

This is what I put together for a Captain Marvel build.

Captain Marvel
“Well…First there was nothing, then there was everything…Then the good lord saw fit to bring me into the world to kick the asses of those who need it most. So get ready ’cause this day or the next, it’s coming.”

Carol Danvers
‘Soldier’ Scourge Aasimar ‘Divine Soul’ Sorcerer 1/'Oath of Devotion' Paladin 6/Celestial Sorcerer 13
Medium humanoid (aasimar), Lawful Good
AC: 18 (+3 breastplate); HP: 154 (14d6+42/6d10+18); Speed: 30 ft.; fly 30 ft.; Saving Throws: Constitution +9 & Charisma +12
Str 13/29 (+1/+9), Dex 12 (+1), Con 16 (+3), Int 8 (-1), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 22 (+6)
Skills: Athletics +7/+15, Intimidation +12, Persuasion +12, & Religion +5
Feats: Spell Sniper (Eldritch Blast) & Warcaster
Tool Proficiencies: Gaming Set (Khadis-Khot) & Vehicles (Water)
Armor/Weapon Proficiencies: Simple & Martial Weapons; Light/Medium Armors & Shields
Senses: passive Perception 10; darkvision (60 ft.)
Languages: Celestial & Common
Special Abilities
Racial Abilities: Celestial Resistance, Darkvision (60 ft.), Healing Hands (20 hp/long rest), Light Bearer, & Radiant Consumption (1 minute/long rest)
Background Abilities: Military Rank
Class Abilities: Spellcasting (Sorcerer), Sorcerous Origin (Divine Soul), Divine Magic, Favored By the Gods, Divine Sense, (7/long rest), Lay on Hands (30 hp/long rest), Fighting Style (Unarmed Fighting), Spellcasting (Paladin), Divine Smite, Divine Health, Sacred Oath (Oath of Devotion), Channel Divinity (Sacred Weapon & Turn the Unholy), Extra Attack, Oath of Protection, Font of Magic (14 sorcery points/long rest), Metamagic (Extended Spell, Heighten Spell, & Twinned Spell), Empowered Healing, & Angelic Form
---
Actions
Unarmed Strike. Melee Weapon Attack: +7/+15 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: +4/+13 (1d6+1/+9) bludgeoning damage; versatile (1d8)
Eldritch Blast. Ranged Spell Attack: +12 to hit, range 240 ft., four beams. Hit: +12 (1d10) force damage
---
Sorcerer Spells -- Carol Danver’s spellcasting ability is Charisma-based (spell save DC 20)
Cantrips Known (at will) -- Control Flames, Create Bonfire, Green-Flame Blade, Guidance, Light*, Sacred Flame, & Word of Radiance
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Absorb Elements, Cure Wounds*, & Guiding Bolt
2nd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Enhance Ability, Lesser Restoration, & Scorching Ray
3rd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Fireball & Haste
4th-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Death Ward & Wall of Fire
5th-level Spells Prepared (2/long rest) -- Flame Strike & Greater Restoration
6th-level Spells Prepared (1/long rest) -- Investiture of Flame
7th-level Spells Prepared (1/long rest) -- Regenerate
---
Paladin Spells -- Carol Danver’s spellcasting ability is Charisma-based (spell save DC 20)
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Command, Compelled Duel, Heroism, Protection From Evil*, Sanctuary*, Shield of Faith, & Thunderous Smite
2nd-level Spells Prepared (2/long rest) -- Aid, Branding Smite, Lesser Restoration*, Magic Weapon, & Zone of Truth*
---
Equipment: Amulet of the Planes*, Belt of Storm Giant Strength*, +3 Breastplate, Ring of Fire Elemental Command*, & (utilized) Tome of Leadership and Influence

She can, every round for one minute, deal +10 radiant damage to everyone within ten feet and +30 radiant damage to an opponent engaged in melee combat with her. This represents her activating her Binary power.

[col_impact]

This is what I put together for a Captain Marvel build.

Captain Marvel
“Well…First there was nothing, then there was everything…Then the good lord saw fit to bring me into the world to kick the asses of those who need it most. So get ready ’cause this day or the next, it’s coming.”

Carol Danvers
‘Soldier’ Scourge Aasimar ‘Divine Soul’ Sorcerer 1/'Oath of Devotion' Paladin 6/Celestial Sorcerer 13
Medium humanoid (aasimar), Lawful Good
AC: 18 (+3 breastplate); HP: 154 (14d6+42/6d10+18); Speed: 30 ft.; fly 30 ft.; Saving Throws: Constitution +9 & Charisma +12
Str 13/29 (+1/+9), Dex 12 (+1), Con 16 (+3), Int 8 (-1), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 22 (+6)
Skills: Athletics +7/+15, Intimidation +12, Persuasion +12, & Religion +5
Feats: Spell Sniper (Eldritch Blast) & Warcaster
Tool Proficiencies: Gaming Set (Khadis-Khot) & Vehicles (Water)
Armor/Weapon Proficiencies: Simple & Martial Weapons; Light/Medium Armors & Shields
Senses: passive Perception 10; darkvision (60 ft.)
Languages: Celestial & Common
Special Abilities
Racial Abilities: Celestial Resistance, Darkvision (60 ft.), Healing Hands (20 hp/long rest), Light Bearer, & Radiant Consumption (1 minute/long rest)
Background Abilities: Military Rank
Class Abilities: Spellcasting (Sorcerer), Sorcerous Origin (Divine Soul), Divine Magic, Favored By the Gods, Divine Sense, (7/long rest), Lay on Hands (30 hp/long rest), Fighting Style (Unarmed Fighting), Spellcasting (Paladin), Divine Smite, Divine Health, Sacred Oath (Oath of Devotion), Channel Divinity (Sacred Weapon & Turn the Unholy), Extra Attack, Oath of Protection, Font of Magic (14 sorcery points/long rest), Metamagic (Extended Spell, Heighten Spell, & Twinned Spell), Empowered Healing, & Angelic Form
---
Actions
Unarmed Strike. Melee Weapon Attack: +7/+15 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: +4/+13 (1d6+1/+9) bludgeoning damage; versatile (1d8)
Eldritch Blast. Ranged Spell Attack: +12 to hit, range 240 ft., four beams. Hit: +12 (1d10) force damage
---
Sorcerer Spells -- Carol Danver’s spellcasting ability is Charisma-based (spell save DC 20)
Cantrips Known (at will) -- Control Flames, Create Bonfire, Green-Flame Blade, Guidance, Light*, Sacred Flame, & Word of Radiance
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Absorb Elements, Cure Wounds*, & Guiding Bolt
2nd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Enhance Ability, Lesser Restoration, & Scorching Ray
3rd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Fireball & Haste
4th-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Death Ward & Wall of Fire
5th-level Spells Prepared (2/long rest) -- Flame Strike & Greater Restoration
6th-level Spells Prepared (1/long rest) -- Investiture of Flame
7th-level Spells Prepared (1/long rest) -- Regenerate
---
Paladin Spells -- Carol Danver’s spellcasting ability is Charisma-based (spell save DC 20)
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Command, Compelled Duel, Heroism, Protection From Evil*, Sanctuary*, Shield of Faith, & Thunderous Smite
2nd-level Spells Prepared (2/long rest) -- Aid, Branding Smite, Lesser Restoration*, Magic Weapon, & Zone of Truth*
---
Equipment: Amulet of the Planes*, Belt of Storm Giant Strength*, +3 Breastplate, Ring of Fire Elemental Command*, & (utilized) Tome of Leadership and Influence

She can, every round for one minute, deal +10 radiant damage to everyone within ten feet and +30 radiant damage to an opponent engaged in melee combat with her. This represents her activating her Binary power.

Very cool. You know if you swap 1 level for 1 Life Cleric you unlock ##REGENERATE 10## and ##INSANE HEALING## and ##RAPHAEL## if you are collecting those things. Also, I can't seem to find Spirit Guardians or Spiritual Weapon on there. Marvel is not flame. Marvel is radiant. And lightning would be her secondary effect.

[Quietus]

I'd honestly simplify things considerably on the Hulk situation - 2 Paladin/Moon Druid X. Get your science through skills and judicious application of druid spells, Paladin is there to allow for smites. In combat, as was mentioned previously in the thread, you wildshape (I'd pick either earth elemental or mammoth), and burn all your spell slots on smites and self-healing. Keep Shapechange in your back pocket for when you need to a particularly pissed off Hulk. If you get knocked out of Wildshape, fluff it as though it was still there and bonus action right back in next turn. Investiture of Wind gives you a 10 minute duration fly speed of 60, and disadvantage for ranged attacks to hit you, allowing long jumps and "shrugging off" bullets.

For a more unstoppable Hulk, go straight Moon Druid to 20. Unlimited wild shapes, be an earth elemental forever. You lose out on damage, but most of what we see Hulk doing is taking hits and crushing minions, with the occasional big strength check to stop something from moving (giant alien creature in Avengers, Fenrir in Ragnarok).

For Carol Danvers, I'd strongly consider Warlock 2-3/ Sorcerer X. Pure beamspam, and one of the strongest multiclass options available. Take blasting effects and personal defense spells, Quicken/Twin metamagics, and burn all your spell slots for more Eldritch Blast. Eventually you will have options including twinned disintegrate for those times that you need to completely eliminate that spaceship. I'd consider Divine Soul or Draconic for the Sorcerer subclass... probably Draconic, for a little extra damage on your Meteor Swarm and the slightly better "wings" (shimmering field of energy/fiery hair).

[col_impact]

Dudes. Watch the movie. She is radiant with force and the occasional electrical discharge. Nothing ever catches fire from contact with her. She is raw COSMIC energy.

[col_impact]

I'd honestly simplify things considerably on the Hulk situation - 2 Paladin/Moon Druid X. Get your science through skills and judicious application of druid spells, Paladin is there to allow for smites. In combat, as was mentioned previously in the thread, you wildshape (I'd pick either earth elemental or mammoth), and burn all your spell slots on smites and self-healing. Keep Shapechange in your back pocket for when you need to a particularly pissed off Hulk. If you get knocked out of Wildshape, fluff it as though it was still there and bonus action right back in next turn. Investiture of Wind gives you a 10 minute duration fly speed of 60, and disadvantage for ranged attacks to hit you, allowing long jumps and "shrugging off" bullets.

For a more unstoppable Hulk, go straight Moon Druid to 20. Unlimited wild shapes, be an earth elemental forever. You lose out on damage, but most of what we see Hulk doing is taking hits and crushing minions, with the occasional big strength check to stop something from moving (giant alien creature in Avengers, Fenrir in Ragnarok).

For Carol Danvers, I'd strongly consider Warlock 2-3/ Sorcerer X. Pure beamspam, and one of the strongest multiclass options available. Take blasting effects and personal defense spells, Quicken/Twin metamagics, and burn all your spell slots for more Eldritch Blast. Eventually you will have options including twinned disintegrate for those times that you need to completely eliminate that spaceship. I'd consider Divine Soul or Draconic for the Sorcerer subclass... probably Draconic, for a little extra damage on your Meteor Swarm and the slightly better "wings" (shimmering field of energy/fiery hair).

Why go Moon Druid 20? Then you are just a tank with no Hulk Smash ##DOUBLE SMITE##-ing! Shapechange can get you better stuff so that becomes your go to 24/7 and also Foresight.

[king_steve]

For Bruce Banner / Hulk, you could do the reverse, where the character is a 'Hulk' part and Bruce is the alternate form.

You could do like 3 levels of (Wizard / Sorcerer) / X levels of Barbarian and pick up Alter Self. Then have the 'human' form be represented by Alter Self and his 'Hulk' form be the based form.

Maybe something like a full Orc to represent the Hulk form, then enough str and con as possible. Even as low as 4 or so you could pull off the basic gimmick.

As an added bonus, representing the human form via a concentration spell like Alter Self means if he gets hit (breaks concentration) he turns big and green. Which feels on point for Bruce/Hulk. With this setup, using his Rage is more a perk than a requirement.

As far as Barbarian paths, the Path of the Zealot has a lot of subclass features that feel like they would represent the Hulk pretty well. Especially Rage beyond Death, which make it feel like the more mad the Hulk gets the longer he will last.

[Zonugal]

Very cool. You know if you swap 1 level for 1 Life Cleric you unlock ##REGENERATE 10## and ##INSANE HEALING## and ##RAPHAEL## if you are collecting those things. Also, I can't seem to find Spirit Guardians or Spiritual Weapon on there. Marvel is not flame. Marvel is radiant. And lightning would be her secondary effect.

Cutting one level out of that build means it either loses permanent flight or Aura of Protection.

I'd prefer they stay in...

[Draz74]

This is what I put together for a Captain Marvel build.

Captain Marvel
“Well…First there was nothing, then there was everything…Then the good lord saw fit to bring me into the world to kick the asses of those who need it most. So get ready ’cause this day or the next, it’s coming.”

Carol Danvers
‘Soldier’ Scourge Aasimar ‘Divine Soul’ Sorcerer 1/'Oath of Devotion' Paladin 6/Celestial Sorcerer 13
Medium humanoid (aasimar), Lawful Good
AC: 18 (+3 breastplate); HP: 154 (14d6+42/6d10+18); Speed: 30 ft.; fly 30 ft.; Saving Throws: Constitution +9 & Charisma +12
Str 13/29 (+1/+9), Dex 12 (+1), Con 16 (+3), Int 8 (-1), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 22 (+6)
Skills: Athletics +7/+15, Intimidation +12, Persuasion +12, & Religion +5
Feats: Spell Sniper (Eldritch Blast) & Warcaster
Tool Proficiencies: Gaming Set (Khadis-Khot) & Vehicles (Water)
Armor/Weapon Proficiencies: Simple & Martial Weapons; Light/Medium Armors & Shields
Senses: passive Perception 10; darkvision (60 ft.)
Languages: Celestial & Common
Special Abilities
Racial Abilities: Celestial Resistance, Darkvision (60 ft.), Healing Hands (20 hp/long rest), Light Bearer, & Radiant Consumption (1 minute/long rest)
Background Abilities: Military Rank
Class Abilities: Spellcasting (Sorcerer), Sorcerous Origin (Divine Soul), Divine Magic, Favored By the Gods, Divine Sense, (7/long rest), Lay on Hands (30 hp/long rest), Fighting Style (Unarmed Fighting), Spellcasting (Paladin), Divine Smite, Divine Health, Sacred Oath (Oath of Devotion), Channel Divinity (Sacred Weapon & Turn the Unholy), Extra Attack, Oath of Protection, Font of Magic (14 sorcery points/long rest), Metamagic (Extended Spell, Heighten Spell, & Twinned Spell), Empowered Healing, & Angelic Form
---
Actions
Unarmed Strike. Melee Weapon Attack: +7/+15 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: +4/+13 (1d6+1/+9) bludgeoning damage; versatile (1d8)
Eldritch Blast. Ranged Spell Attack: +12 to hit, range 240 ft., four beams. Hit: +12 (1d10) force damage
---
Sorcerer Spells -- Carol Danver’s spellcasting ability is Charisma-based (spell save DC 20)
Cantrips Known (at will) -- Control Flames, Create Bonfire, Green-Flame Blade, Guidance, Light*, Sacred Flame, & Word of Radiance
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Absorb Elements, Cure Wounds*, & Guiding Bolt
2nd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Enhance Ability, Lesser Restoration, & Scorching Ray
3rd-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Fireball & Haste
4th-level Spells Prepared (3/long rest) -- Death Ward & Wall of Fire
5th-level Spells Prepared (2/long rest) -- Flame Strike & Greater Restoration
6th-level Spells Prepared (1/long rest) -- Investiture of Flame
7th-level Spells Prepared (1/long rest) -- Regenerate
---
Paladin Spells -- Carol Danver’s spellcasting ability is Charisma-based (spell save DC 20)
1st-level Spells Prepared (4/long rest) -- Command, Compelled Duel, Heroism, Protection From Evil*, Sanctuary*, Shield of Faith, & Thunderous Smite
2nd-level Spells Prepared (2/long rest) -- Aid, Branding Smite, Lesser Restoration*, Magic Weapon, & Zone of Truth*
---
Equipment: Amulet of the Planes*, Belt of Storm Giant Strength*, +3 Breastplate, Ring of Fire Elemental Command*, & (utilized) Tome of Leadership and Influence

She can, every round for one minute, deal +10 radiant damage to everyone within ten feet and +30 radiant damage to an opponent engaged in melee combat with her. This represents her activating her Binary power.

I like it, other than so much fire when other types of damage are more in-character. I think I'll build something quite similar, although I haven't decided yet between Divine Soul and (Lightning) Draconic Bloodline.

I was kind of against her having Aura of Protection, but it's growing on me. Affect on allies aside, it's a way for her to have nearly monk-like saving throws herself.


For Bruce Banner / Hulk, you could do the reverse, where the character is a 'Hulk' part and Bruce is the alternate form.

You could do like 3 levels of (Wizard / Sorcerer) / X levels of Barbarian and pick up Alter Self. Then have the 'human' form be represented by Alter Self and his 'Hulk' form be the based form.

Maybe something like a full Orc to represent the Hulk form, then enough str and con as possible. Even as low as 4 or so you could pull off the basic gimmick.

As an added bonus, representing the human form via a concentration spell like Alter Self means if he gets hit (breaks concentration) he turns big and green. Which feels on point for Bruce/Hulk. With this setup, using his Rage is more a perk than a requirement.

As far as Barbarian paths, the Path of the Zealot has a lot of subclass features that feel like they would represent the Hulk pretty well. Especially Rage beyond Death, which make it feel like the more mad the Hulk gets the longer he will last.

You might be a genius, with the whole "beaten our of concentration makes him become the Hulk" thing. I will play around more with this.

* * *

Back to Black Widow, is it a crime for her to not have Reliable Talent?

[col_impact]

Cutting one level out of that build means it either loses permanent flight or Aura of Protection.

I'd prefer they stay in...

Aasimar get permanent flight at 5th level. So Tier 2.

[JNAProductions]

Aasimar get permanent flight at 5th level. So Tier 2.

What aasimar are you looking at? Nothing in my books says they get flight on any kind of permanent basis.

[king_steve]

What aasimar are you looking at? Nothing in my books says they get flight on any kind of permanent basis.

I think it’s a season 9 adventure league specific thing for they’re doing for the Decent Into Avernus arc.

[JNAProductions]

I think it’s a season 9 adventure league specific thing for they’re doing for the Decent Into Avernus arc.

But that's AL. Who cares about that?

[col_impact]

But that's AL. Who cares about that?

PvP based on AL ruleset.

[JNAProductions]

PvP based on AL ruleset.

That's a modified noun, that is.

Not sure why it's relevant at all to the thread, but it sure was posted. Because the thing is, most people don't play strict AL. Not even AL tables-I've seen plenty of tables that are officially classed as AL but let people join in with characters that weren't leveled up through AL, for instance. And there's a metric gakload of players who just don't play AL at all.

It's a valid way to play-but certainly not the only one. So to say "Build your character as if they were using a special ability from a single season of AL games!" isn't a very helpful suggestion.

[col_impact]

That's a modified noun, that is.

Not sure why it's relevant at all to the thread, but it sure was posted. Because the thing is, most people don't play strict AL. Not even AL tables-I've seen plenty of tables that are officially classed as AL but let people join in with characters that weren't leveled up through AL, for instance. And there's a metric gakload of players who just don't play AL at all.

It's a valid way to play-but certainly not the only one. So to say "Build your character as if they were using a special ability from a single season of AL games!" isn't a very helpful suggestion.

If it's not relevant to you then feel free to ignore it. I don't understand you complaining because I dared talk about something not relevant to your choices of how to play the game.

[Draz74]

Stats for Black Widow (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24424582&postcount=42) (rough draft) are up. I felt like Level 14 was appropriate as a power level for her, even though that meant giving up 1 Monk level and 2 Rogue levels that would have been really really nice to have.

I also edited in stats (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24422886&postcount=11) for my take on the Alter-Self-as-Bruce-Banner version of Hulk. I also took the suggestion to switch him to Zealot rather than Totemic Barbarian. Losing some of the Totem features hurts, but it just seems more angry and more smash-y.

[Draz74]

Thor Odinson

Base Ability Scores: Str 18, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 16, Cha 18
Race: Mountain Dwarf
Background: Prince of Asgard (Position of Privilege, one language, one gaming set, Arcana, Religion)
Class(es): Battle Master Fighter 5 / Storm Sorcerer 6 / Tempest Cleric 9
Feats: Squat Nimbleness, Dwarven Fortitude, Durable
Alignment: NG

AC: 19 (breastplate +2, cloak of protection)
HP: 203 (5d10+6d6+9d8+100)
Speed: 30 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 20 (+5), Dex 14 (+2), Con 20 (+5), Int 11 (+0), Wis 16 (+3), Cha 20 (+5)
Saves: Str +12, Dex +3, Con +12, Int +1, Wis +4, Cha +6
Skills: Arcana +6, Athletics +11, History +6, Religion +6, Survival +9
Tools: smith's tools, three-dragon ante set, leatherworker's tools
Senses: darkvision 60 ft, passive Perception 13
Languages: Common, Dwarvish, Celestial, Primordial

Spellcasting (sorcerer): Cha-based; DC 19, attack +11.
Spellcasting (cleric): Wis-based; DC 17, attack +9.
Cantrips: (sorcerer) gust, blade ward, shocking grasp, thunderclap, booming blade; (cleric) thaumaturgy, light, resistance, mending
1st level (4/day): (sorcerer) comprehend languages, earth tremor, false life, shield; (cleric) fog cloud, thunderwave, cause fear, create or destroy water, detect magic [R], protection from evil and good
2nd level (3/day): (sorcerer) knock; (cleric) gust of wind, shatter, spiritual weapon
3rd level (3/day): (sorcerer) fly, lightning bolt; (cleric) call lightning, sleet storm, beacon of hope, sending, tongues, water walk [R]
4th level (3/day): (cleric) control water, ice storm, aura of life
5th level (2/day): (cleric) destructive wave, insect plague, holy weapon, legend lore
6th level (1/day)
7th level (1/day)
8th level (1/day)

Combat Superiority (4/short rest):

Maneuver - Sweeping Attack: secondary target within reach adjacent to main target takes 1d8 damage of attack's damage type if its AC is not greater than attack roll against main target
Maneuver - Pushing Attack: weapon attack hit adds +1d8 damage; Large or smaller target pushed 15 ft (Strength save DC 19 negates)
Maneuver - Brace: see Reactions

Font of Magic (6 sorcery points/long rest):

bonus action spend 2 sorcery points to gain 1st-level spell slot
bonus action spend 3 sorcery points to gain 2nd-level spell slot
bonus action spend 5 sorcery points to gain 3rd-level spell slot
bonus action spend 6 sorcery points to gain 4th-level spell slot
bonus action spend a spell slot to gain sorcery points equal to its level (can only have 6 points maximum)
spend 2 sorcery points to gain advantage on ability check on his turn
Metamagic - Careful Spell: 1 sorcery point to allow up to 5 creatures to automatically save against cast spell
Metamagic - Empowered Spell: reroll up to 5 of spell's damage dice, must use new rolls; can combine with Careful Spell

Channel Divinity (2/short rest):

Turn/Destroy Undead: action; uses holy symbol; undead within 30 ft that can see or hear are turned for 1 minute (Wisdom save DC 17 negates); undead of CR 1 or lower are destroyed instead
Harness Divine Power: bonus action use holy symbol to regain one 1st-level spell slot
Destructive Wrath: maximize one instance of thunder or lightning damage roll

Dwarven Resilience: resist poison damage; advantage on saves against poison
Stonecunning: expertise on History related to origin of stonework
Unarmed Fighting Style: deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage with a grapple or whenever hitting creature grappled by him with melee attack
Second Wind (1/short rest): bonus action regain 1d10+5 hp
Action Surge (1/short rest): take an additional action on his turn
Squat Nimbleness: advantage on Athletics checks to escape from grapple
Tempestuous Magic: fly 10' as bonus action without provoking opportunity attacks immediately before or after spell of 1st level or higher
Storm Guide: ribbon
Heart of the Storm: resist lightning & thunder damage; deal 3 lightning or thunder damage to creatures of choice within 10 ft when starting to cast spell of 1st level or higher that deals lightning or thunder damage
Thunderbolt Strike: on dealing lightning damage to Large or smaller creature, can push it up to 10 ft away from himself
Blessed Strikes: add 1d8 radiant damage to weapon attack or damaging spell against creature; can't use again until the start of his next turn
Durable: spending Hit Die to heal always heals at least 10 hp

Actions:

Imbuing Touch: spend 2 sorcery points to make a weapon magical for 1 minute
Sorcerous Fortitude: spend X sorcery points to gain Xd4 temporary hp
Dwarven Fortitude: take dodge action; spend 1 Hit Die to gain hp as normal
Extra Attack (2 total)
Dwarven Thrower (melee): +14 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d8+8 bludgeoning damage.
Dwarven Thrower (melee, 2-handed): +14 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d10+8 bludgeoning damage.
Dwarven Thrower (thrown): +14 to hit, range 20/60 ft, 2d8+8 bludgeoning damage; +1d8 damage against giants; immediately flies back to hand.
Unarmed Strike: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d6+5 bludgeoning damage.
Unarmed Strike (2-handed): +11 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d8+5 bludgeoning damage.

Reactions:

Wrath of the Storm (3/long rest): when hit by creature within 5', deal it 2d8 lightning or thunder damage (Dex save DC 17 half)
Maneuver - Brace: when seen enemy moves within 5 ft, make weapon attack against that enemy; on hit deals +1d8 damage

Magic Items:

Breastplate +2
*Cloak of Protection
*Dwarven Thrower
*Ruby of the War Mage: attached to Dwarven Thrower; allows using it as arcane focus

[Draz74]

Clint Barton

Base Ability Scores: Str 16, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 18, Cha 10
Race: Half-Elf
Background: S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent (Spy Contact, one language, land vehicles, Investigation, Stealth)
Class(es): Monk 2 / Gloom Stalker Ranger 4 / Arcane Archer Fighter 8
Feats: Sharpshooter, Prodigy, Elven Accuracy
Alignment: CG

AC: 20 (unarmored defense)
HP: 127 (2d8+12d10+42)
Speed: 40 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 16 (+3), Dex 20 (+5), Con 16 (+3), Int 14 (+2), Wis 20 (+5), Cha 12 (+1)
Saves: Str +8, Dex +10
Skills: Acrobatics +10, Arcana +7, Athletics +8, Investigation +7, Medicine +10, Perception +15, Persuasion +11, Sleight of Hand +10, Stealth +10, Survival +10
Tools: land vehicles, woodcarver's tools, water vehicles
Senses: darkvision 90 ft, passive Perception 25
Languages: Common, Elvish, Gnomish, Goblin, Orc, Undercommon, Halfling

Spellcasting: Wis-based; DC 18, attack +10.
Cantrips: druidcraft
1st level (3/day): detect magic, disguise self, ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, snare, speak with animals

Arcane Shot (2/short rest):

Bursting Arrow: after arrow hits, deal 2d6 force damage to target and all creatures within 10'
Seeking Arrow: target one creature seen in past minute; arrow can fly around corners etc.; attack automatically deals normal damage +1d6 force damage and you learn target's location (Dexterity save DC 15 halve all damage and don't reveal location)
Enfeebling Arrow: after arrow hits, halve target's weapon attack damage until start of Clint's next turn (Constitution save DC 15 negates); attack also adds +2d6 necrotic damage

Ki (2/short rest):

Ki-Fueled Strike: if action used ki, make unarmed strike as bonus action
Flurry of Blows: for 1 ki, two unarmed strikes as bonus action after taking Attack action
Patient Defense: for 1 ki, dodge as bonus action
Step of the Wind: for 1 ki, disengage or dash as bonus action; jump distance doubled that turn

Fey Ancestry: advantage on saving throws against charmed; can't be put to sleep by magic
Martial Arts: unarmed/monk weapon damage 1d4, Dexterity-based; bonus action unarmed strike after taking Attack action
Favored Enemy: advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track humans and goblins, and Intelligence checks to recall information about them
Second Wind (1/short rest): bonus action regain 1d10+8 hp
Action Surge (1/short rest): take an additional action on his turn
Sharpshooter: weapon attack rolls ignore disadvantage for long range, half- and three-quarters-cover; before attack with proficient ranged weapon, accept -5 attack penalty to deal +10 damage
Magic Arrow: arrows from shortbow or longbow attacks can always be considered magical
Curving Shot: when magic arrow attack misses, bonus action reroll attack against new target within 60' of primary target
Blind Fighting Style: ignore disadvantage on attacks for not being able to see target
Dread Ambusher: first round of combat: +10' walking speed; attack action adds one weapon attack, which deals +1d8 damage of the weapon's type on a hit
Umbral Sight: invisibility to darkvision

Actions:

Quickened Healing: spend 2 ki to heal 1d4 hp
Extra Attack (2 total)
Unarmed Strike: +10 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d4+5 bludgeoning damage.
Longbow: +13 to hit, range 150/600 ft, 1d8+6 piercing damage.
Shortbow: +12 to hit, range 80/320 ft, 1d6+5 piercing damage.
Hand Crossbow: +12 to hit, range 30/120 ft, 1d6+5 piercing damage, loading.
Shortsword: +10 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d6+5 piercing damage.

Magic Items:

Longbow +1
Quiver of Ehlonna: holds 60 arrows/bolts, 18 javelins, 6 bows; weighs 2 lb.

[Draz74]

Steve Rogers

Base Ability Scores: Str 17, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 18
Race: Simic Hybrid
Background: Brooklyn Kid (City Secrets, one language, land vehicles, History, Insight)
Class(es): Battle Master Fighter 12 / Mastermind Rogue 4
Feats: Tavern Brawler, Shield Master, Inspiring Leader, Magic Initiate (Druid)
Alignment: NG

AC: 22 (studded leather, shield +3, carapace)
HP: 160 (12d10+4d8+64)
Speed: 30 ft, climb 30 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 18 (+4), Dex 18 (+4), Con 18 (+4), Int 12 (+1), Wis 18 (+4), Cha 22 (+6)
Saves: Str +9, Con +9
Skills: Acrobatics +9, Athletics +14, History +6, Insight +9, Persuasion +16
Tools: land vehicles, cartographer's tools, thieves' tools, disguise kit, forgery kit, dragonchess set
Senses: darkvision 60 ft, passive Perception 14
Languages: Common, Elvish, Goblin, Thieves' Cant, Orc, Undercommon

Spellcasting: Wis-based; DC 17, attack +9.
Cantrips: magic stone, resistance
1st level: longstrider (1/long rest)

Combat Superiority (5/short rest):

Maneuver - Rally: bonus action; friendly creature who can see or hear him gains 1d10+6 temporary hp next turn
Maneuver - Riposte: see Reactions
Maneuver - Bait and Switch: spend 5 ft of movement to switch places with adjacent ally without provoking opportunity attacks; ally gains +1d10 to AC until start of Steve's next turn
Maneuver - Precision Attack: add +1d10 to result of weapon attack roll, before its effects are applied
Maneuver - Maneuvering Attack: weapon attack hit adds +1d10 damage; friendly creature who can see or hear can use reaction to move up to half its speed without provoking opportunity attacks from target of attack
Maneuver - Disarming Attack: weapon attack hit adds +1d10 damage; choose a held item that target drops (Strength save DC 17 negates)
Maneuver - Distracting Strike: weapon attack hit adds +1d10 damage; next attack against that target by another creature has advantage until start of his

Second Wind (1/short rest): bonus action regain 1d10+12 hp
Action Surge (1/short rest): take an additional action on his turn
Tavern Brawler: proficient with improvised weapons; after hitting with unarmed strike or improvised weapon on his turn, can attempt to grapple target as bonus action
Shield Master: after attack action on his turn, bonus action use shield to shove; while not incapacitated and wielding shield, Dexterity saves against effects targeting only him have +5 bonus
Know Your Enemy: after 1 minute of observation or interaction, learn how creature compares to him in two of the following: Strength score, Dexterity score, Constitution score, AC, current hp, total class level, Fighter class level
Inspiring Leader: spend 10 minutes; up to six friendly creatures within 30 ft who can understand and see or hear gain 22 temporary hp; can't gain temporary hp from this feature again until after short or long rest
Sneak Attack: +2d6 to damage 1/turn if using ranged or finesse weapon; requires advantage on attack roll or adjacent enemy of target
Cunning Action: dash, disengage, or hide as bonus action; aim (advantage on next attack roll this turn) as bonus action if no movement during turn
Master of Tactics: help as a bonus action; using help to aid an ally in attacking a creature can be done from 30 ft away, if ally can see or hear him
Indomitable (1/long rest): reroll failed saving throw, must use new result

Actions:

Extra Attack (3 total)
Unarmed Strike: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d4+4 bludgeoning damage.

Reactions:

Protection Fighting Style: use shield to impose disadvantage on attack against target other than him within 5 ft
Maneuver - Riposte: when missed by melee attack, make melee weapon attack against attacker; on hit deals +1d10 damage
Shield Master: on successful Dexterity saving throw for half damage, take no damage instead

Magic Items:

Shield +3
(used) Tome of Leadership and Influence

[col_impact]

Steve Rogers

I'm planning on Level 16 for Captain America.

I'm questioning my resolve to make him a Redemption Paladin to some extent. The Auras of Protection and Courage are justifiable, but the Paladin gets so many other abilities that just feel too supernatural for Steve. And now that I'm planning on Captain Marvel having Aura of Protection, there's redundancy there too.

On the other hand, just Battle Master 16 is awfully boring.

Any input?

2-3 levels of War Mage gives him Super Soldier abilities.

[Zonugal]

Steve Rogers

I'm planning on Level 16 for Captain America.

I'm questioning my resolve to make him a Redemption Paladin to some extent. The Auras of Protection and Courage are justifiable, but the Paladin gets so many other abilities that just feel too supernatural for Steve. And now that I'm planning on Captain Marvel having Aura of Protection, there's redundancy there too.

On the other hand, just Battle Master 16 is awfully boring.

Any input?

Perhaps some levels of Rogue?

He was a commando during WWII, so adding some mobility & sneak attacking wouldn't hurt.

Scout gets him so nice abilities while the Mastermind subclass lets him grant advantage to any ally within 30 ft as a bonus action (which seems a lot like Cap)...?

[col_impact]

Perhaps some levels of Rogue?

He was a commando during WWII, so adding some mobility & sneak attacking wouldn't hurt.

Scout gets him so nice abilities while the Mastermind subclass lets him grant advantage to any ally within 30 ft as a bonus action (which seems a lot like Cap)...?

Re-fluff expeditious retreat, longstrider, jump, mage armor, shield etc.

Booming Blade can be thunderous blows. Mobility feat.

Catapult can be indirect hit from Shield, etc.

War Mage makes the guys saves insane.

3 levels gets you suggestion which is Caps supernormal ability to lead.

[Zonugal]

Yeah, but I don't think Steve Roger's should be a spellcaster.

[Draz74]

Perhaps some levels of Rogue?

He was a commando during WWII, so adding some mobility & sneak attacking wouldn't hurt.

Scout gets him so nice abilities while the Mastermind subclass lets him grant advantage to any ally within 30 ft as a bonus action (which seems a lot like Cap)...?
Hmmm. Disengaging and hiding and thieves' cant isn't really his style, but I might be able to overlook that. I like the idea of the Mastermind level 3 Help ability for him.


Re-fluff expeditious retreat, longstrider, jump, mage armor, shield etc.

Booming Blade can be thunderous blows. Mobility feat.

Catapult can be indirect hit from Shield, etc.

War Mage makes the guys saves insane.

3 levels gets you suggestion which is Caps supernormal ability to lead.
Arcane Deflection is pretty tempting, as it's easy to re-fluff as nonmagical and I'm worried about Cap's saves without Aura of Protection.

But Captain America, a wizard?! I wasn't even planning for him to have the 13 Intelligence he would need.

[col_impact]

Hmmm. Disengaging and hiding and thieves' cant isn't really his style, but I might be able to overlook that. I like the idea of the Mastermind level 3 Help ability for him.


Arcane Deflection is pretty tempting, as it's easy to re-fluff as nonmagical and I'm worried about Cap's saves without Aura of Protection.

But Captain America, a wizard?! I wasn't even planning for him to have the 13 Intelligence he would need.

Why wouldn't he have decent Int and Wizard/Super abilities? Solid Supes like Cap wouldn't ditch their Int. In fact, Cap's origin obviously depicts some sort of Magic Jar type scenario boosting his physical stats.

The absolute strongest builds you can make (e.g, Thor, Green Lantern, Shazam, Darth Vader) all involve Wiz 17.

The magic is in the re-flavoring of spell-like abilities as Super powers. Otherwise you are just building various flavors of Conan. Your inability to make this connection has made most of your proposed Avenger builds very uninspired, mediocre, and underpowered, to be perfectly honest.

[Draz74]

Why wouldn't he have decent Int and Wizard/Super abilities? Solid Supes like Cap wouldn't ditch their Int. In fact, Cap's origin obviously depicts some sort of Magic Jar type scenario boosting his physical stats.

The absolute strongest builds you can make (e.g, Thor, Green Lantern, Shazam, Darth Vader) all involve Wiz 17.

The magic is in the re-flavoring of spell-like abilities as Super powers. Otherwise you are just building various flavors of Conan. Your inability to make this connection has made most of your proposed Avenger builds very uninspired, mediocre, and underpowered, to be perfectly honest.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you. It's clear that you see this game very differently from most of us, and you're just going to have to accept that.

That said, you're right that refluffing Magic Stone and/or Catapult is probably the best way in the game to represent Cap throwing his Shield, and so I am actually considering giving him some minor refluffed spellcasting.

But as tempting as Arcane Deflection is, I'm leaning towards Sorcerer 1 rather than Wizard 2, because Cap's Charisma is going to be sky-high, while Intelligence is his closest thing to a dump stat.

But if you have good ideas of ways to re-fluff him being generally studious, accessing a spellbook for his magical power, and having Ritual Casting, I'm still listening.

[Draz74]

Credit to Zonugal for mostly drafting up this build.

Carol Danvers

Base Ability Scores: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 18
Race: Scourge Aasimar
Background: Military Pilot (Military Rank, one language, water vehicles, Intimidation, Nature)
Class(es): Divine Soul Sorcerer 14 / Devotion Paladin 6 / Epic Boon 2
Feats: Spell Sniper, War Caster
Alignment: LG

AC: 16 (studded leather +1)
HP: 254 (14d6+6d10+160)
Speed: 30 ft, fly 30 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 23 (+6), Dex 16 (+3), Con 22 (+6), Int 12 (+1), Wis 14 (+2), Cha 20 (+5)
Saves: Str +11, Dex +8, Con +17, Int +6, Wis +7, Cha +16
Skills: Athletics +12, History +7, Intimidation +11, Nature +7
Tools: water vehicles
Senses: darkvision 60 ft, passive Perception 12
Languages: Common, Celestial, Infernal

Spellcasting: Cha-based; DC 19, attack +11.
Cantrips: (racial) light; (sorcerer) green-flame blade, lightning lure, mage hand, mending, sacred flame, word of radiance; (feat) eldritch blast
1st level (4/day): (sorcerer) absorb elements, bless, expeditious retreat, guiding bolt, shield; (paladin) compelled duel, heroism, protection from evil and good, purify food and drink, sanctuary, shield of faith, thunderous smite
2nd level (3/day): (sorcerer) blur; (paladin) aid, branding smite, lesser restoration, magic weapon, zone of truth
3rd level (3/day): (sorcerer) haste, life transference
4th level (3/day): (sorcerer) death ward
5th level (2/day): (sorcerer) commune, flame strike
6th level (1/day): (sorcerer) disintegrate
7th level (1/day): (sorcerer) plane shift, regenerate
8th level (1/day)
9th level (1/day)

Font of Magic (14 sorcery points/long rest):

bonus action spend 2 sorcery points to gain 1st-level spell slot
bonus action spend 3 sorcery points to gain 2nd-level spell slot
bonus action spend 5 sorcery points to gain 3rd-level spell slot
bonus action spend 6 sorcery points to gain 4th-level spell slot
bonus action spend 7 sorcery points to gain 5th-level spell slot
bonus action spend a spell slot to gain sorcery points equal to its level (can only have 14 points maximum)
spend 2 sorcery points to gain advantage on ability check on her turn
Metamagic - Twinned Spell: add second target to one-target spell (except Self-range spell); costs 1 sorcery point for cantrip, or points equal to spell's level
Metamagic - Empowered Spell: reroll up to 5 of spell's damage dice, must use new rolls; can combine with other metamagic
Metamagic - Heightened Spell: 3 sorcery point to give one target of spell disadvantage on its first save
Empowered Healing (1/turn): when she or ally within 5 ft rolls dice to heal from spell and she isn't incapacitated, 1 sorcery point to reroll any number of those dice

Channel Divinity (1/short rest):

Turn the Unholy: action; uses holy symbol; undead and fiends within 30 ft that can see or hear are turned for 1 minute (Wisdom save DC 19 negates)
Sacred Weapon: action; weapon becomes magical, with 20-ft bright light and 40-ft dim light and +5 attack rolls, for 1 minute or until she falls unconscious or isn't holding weapon
Harness Divine Power: bonus action use holy symbol to regain one 1st-level spell slot

Celestial Resistance: resist necrotic & radiant damage
Favored by the Gods (1/short rest): add 2d4 to failed saving throw or attack roll
Divine Smite: expend spell slot; melee weapon attack adds +1d8 radiant damage, +1d8 per level of slot, to maximum of 5d8; +1d8 additional damage (max 6d8) if target is fiend or undead
Unarmed Fighting Style: deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage with a grapple or whenever hitting creature grappled by her with melee attack
Divine Health: immunity to disease
Spell Sniper: attack roll spells' range doubled; ranged spell attacks ignore half and three-quarters cover
War Caster: advantage on saving throws to maintain concentration when taking damage; use weapons or shield to perform somatic components; cast single-target 1-action spell in place of opportunity attack
Otherworldly Wings: deactivate or re-activate fly speed as bonus action; it also is deactivated if she is incapacitated
Aura of Protection: while conscious, grant +5 bonus to saving throws of friendly creatures within 10 ft (lose +5 to all her own saves if unconscious)
Boon of Invincibility (1/short rest): reduce damage taken from one source to 0

Actions:

Healing Hands (1/long rest): touch range; heal 20 hp
Radiant Consumption (1/long rest): lasts 1 minute or until ended as bonus action; shed 10-ft bright light, 20-ft dim light; once on each of her turns, add +20 radiant to damage of attack or spell; end of turn, deal 10 radiant damage to self and all within 10 ft
Divine Sense (6/long rest): know location and type of celestials, fiends, undead, hallowed areas within 60 ft if not behind total cover until end of next turn
Lay on Hands (30 hp/long rest): touch to heal creature; touch and 5 hp power each to cure poisons or diseases
Imbuing Touch: spend 2 sorcery points to make a weapon magical for 1 minute
Sorcerous Fortitude: spend X sorcery points to gain Xd4 temporary hp
Extra Attack (2 total)
Unarmed Strike: +12 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d6+6 bludgeoning damage.
Unarmed Strike (2-handed): +12 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d8+6 bludgeoning damage.

Magic Items:

Glamoured Studded Leather: bonus action change armor's appearance, e.g. to normal clothing or another kind of armor
*Belt of Stone Giant Strength
(used) Manual of Bodily Health

[Zonugal]

Why wouldn't he have decent Int and Wizard/Super abilities? Solid Supes like Cap wouldn't ditch their Int. In fact, Cap's origin obviously depicts some sort of Magic Jar type scenario boosting his physical stats.

I must have missed that scene in the MCU where Steve Rogers studied his spellbook... Where was it?


Your inability to make this connection has made most of your proposed Avenger builds very uninspired, mediocre, and underpowered, to be perfectly honest.

"Uninspired" declares the person who just wants every build to be a wizard...

[Falconcry]

My Gnome is named Lott Scang

Runeknight 3 / Armorer 5

Feat Grappler

Uses Giants Might from RK to go from Small to Large on bonus action.
Casts Enlarge to go to Huge.
Action Surge and tackle and pin the dragon knocking it prone.
Melee buddies go to town.

Can swap to Infiltrator and cast reduce to tiny to ride his Homunculus into battle or do stealthy stuffs.

[col_impact]

My Gnome is named Lott Scang

Runeknight 3 / Armorer 5

Feat Grappler

Uses Giants Might from RK to go from Small to Large on bonus action.
Casts Enlarge to go to Huge.
Action Surge and tackle and pin the dragon knocking it prone.
Melee buddies go to town.

Can swap to Infiltrator and cast reduce to tiny to ride his Homunculus into battle or do stealthy stuffs.

Best Ant-Man build is 1 Wizard /2 Knowledge Cleric/17 Shepherd Druid.

Now this Ant-Man is very versatile!


I must have missed that scene in the MCU where Steve Rogers studied his spellbook... Where was it?

He has a tiny Bible which he reads from tucked inside his shield and a magic charm (Bucky's dogtag). And he makes prayers to himself all the time. Read the comics.


"Uninspired" declares the person who just wants every build to be a wizard...

My Ant-Man build is only 1 Wizard. But hey if you guys want to take credit for my idea go right ahead. I suggest your initsl pass of a character to be as a Wizard. The second pass, you at that point have a clear path through Sorceror for what you truly want.

That's my secret to finding all the easter eggs. Play a Wizard for every build. Then build.

[col_impact]

Credit to Zonugal for mostly drafting up this build.

Carol Danvers

Base Ability Scores: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 18
Race: Scourge Aasimar
Background: Military Pilot (Military Rank, one language, water vehicles, Intimidation, Nature)
Class(es): Divine Soul Sorcerer 14 / Devotion Paladin 6 / Epic Boon 2
Feats: Spell Sniper, War Caster
Alignment: LG

AC: 16 (studded leather +1)
HP: 254 (14d6+6d10+160)
Speed: 30 ft, fly 30 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 23 (+6), Dex 16 (+3), Con 22 (+6), Int 12 (+1), Wis 14 (+2), Cha 20 (+5)
Saves: Str +11, Dex +8, Con +17, Int +6, Wis +7, Cha +16
Skills: Athletics +12, History +7, Intimidation +11, Nature +7
Tools: water vehicles
Senses: darkvision 60 ft, passive Perception 12
Languages: Common, Celestial, Infernal

Spellcasting: Cha-based; DC 19, attack +11.
Cantrips: (racial) light; (sorcerer) green-flame blade, lightning lure, mage hand, mending, sacred flame, word of radiance; (feat) eldritch blast
1st level (4/day): (sorcerer) absorb elements, bless, expeditious retreat, guiding bolt, shield; (paladin) compelled duel, heroism, protection from evil and good, purify food and drink, sanctuary, shield of faith, thunderous smite
2nd level (3/day): (sorcerer) blur; (paladin) aid, branding smite, lesser restoration, magic weapon, zone of truth
3rd level (3/day): (sorcerer) haste, life transference
4th level (3/day): (sorcerer) death ward
5th level (2/day): (sorcerer) commune, flame strike
6th level (1/day): (sorcerer) disintegrate
7th level (1/day): (sorcerer) plane shift, regenerate
8th level (1/day)
9th level (1/day)

Font of Magic (14 sorcery points/long rest):

bonus action spend 2 sorcery points to gain 1st-level spell slot
bonus action spend 3 sorcery points to gain 2nd-level spell slot
bonus action spend 5 sorcery points to gain 3rd-level spell slot
bonus action spend 6 sorcery points to gain 4th-level spell slot
bonus action spend 7 sorcery points to gain 5th-level spell slot
bonus action spend a spell slot to gain sorcery points equal to its level (can only have 14 points maximum)
spend 2 sorcery points to gain advantage on ability check on her turn
Metamagic - Twinned Spell: add second target to one-target spell (except Self-range spell); costs 1 sorcery point for cantrip, or points equal to spell's level
Metamagic - Empowered Spell: reroll up to 5 of spell's damage dice, must use new rolls; can combine with other metamagic
Metamagic - Heightened Spell: 3 sorcery point to give one target of spell disadvantage on its first save
Empowered Healing (1/turn): when she or ally within 5 ft rolls dice to heal from spell and she isn't incapacitated, 1 sorcery point to reroll any number of those dice

Channel Divinity (1/short rest):

Turn the Unholy: action; uses holy symbol; undead and fiends within 30 ft that can see or hear are turned for 1 minute (Wisdom save DC 19 negates)
Sacred Weapon: action; weapon becomes magical, with 20-ft bright light and 40-ft dim light and +5 attack rolls, for 1 minute or until she falls unconscious or isn't holding weapon
Harness Divine Power: bonus action use holy symbol to regain one 1st-level spell slot

Celestial Resistance: resist necrotic & radiant damage
Favored by the Gods (1/short rest): add 2d4 to failed saving throw or attack roll
Divine Smite: expend spell slot; melee weapon attack adds +1d8 radiant damage, +1d8 per level of slot, to maximum of 5d8; +1d8 additional damage (max 6d8) if target is fiend or undead
Unarmed Fighting Style: deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage with a grapple or whenever hitting creature grappled by her with melee attack
Divine Health: immunity to disease
Spell Sniper: attack roll spells' range doubled; ranged spell attacks ignore half and three-quarters cover
War Caster: advantage on saving throws to maintain concentration when taking damage; use weapons or shield to perform somatic components; cast single-target 1-action spell in place of opportunity attack
Otherworldly Wings: deactivate or re-activate fly speed as bonus action; it also is deactivated if she is incapacitated
Aura of Protection: while conscious, grant +5 bonus to saving throws of friendly creatures within 10 ft (lose +5 to all her own saves if unconscious)
Boon of Invincibility (1/short rest): reduce damage taken from one source to 0

Actions:

Healing Hands (1/long rest): touch range; heal 20 hp
Radiant Consumption (1/long rest): lasts 1 minute or until ended as bonus action; shed 10-ft bright light, 20-ft dim light; once on each of her turns, add +20 radiant to damage of attack or spell; end of turn, deal 10 radiant damage to self and all within 10 ft
Divine Sense (6/long rest): know location and type of celestials, fiends, undead, hallowed areas within 60 ft if not behind total cover until end of next turn
Lay on Hands (30 hp/long rest): touch to heal creature; touch and 5 hp power each to cure poisons or diseases
Imbuing Touch: spend 2 sorcery points to make a weapon magical for 1 minute
Sorcerous Fortitude: spend X sorcery points to gain Xd4 temporary hp
Extra Attack (2 total)
Unarmed Strike: +12 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d6+6 bludgeoning damage.
Unarmed Strike (2-handed): +12 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d8+6 bludgeoning damage.

Magic Items:

Glamoured Studded Leather: bonus action change armor's appearance, e.g. to normal clothing or another kind of armor
*Belt of Stone Giant Strength
(used) Manual of Bodily Health


Man, those are some weak weak picks for Magic Items.

17-18 Sorceror/2-3 Paladin is much, much better for Carol Danvers, IMHO. Destroys your build.

But really, 2 Paladin/18 Evocation Wizard then destroys that build.

[Draz74]

My Gnome is named Lott Scang

Runeknight 3 / Armorer 5

Feat Grappler

Uses Giants Might from RK to go from Small to Large on bonus action.
Casts Enlarge to go to Huge.
Action Surge and tackle and pin the dragon knocking it prone.
Melee buddies go to town.

Can swap to Infiltrator and cast reduce to tiny to ride his Homunculus into battle or do stealthy stuffs.

I've never paid any attention to Runeknight. I'll have to check it out. I'll probably also add Thief levels since I'm aiming for higher than Level 8 anyway.

[Zonugal]

He has a tiny Bible which he reads from tucked inside his shield and a magic charm (Bucky's dogtag). And he makes prayers to himself all the time. Read the comics.

Don't need to hoss, cause we aren't adapting Steve Rogers from the comic books.

Again, please show me where in the MCU Captain America studies a spell book.

Or when he went to wizard school???

[Zonugal]

My Gnome is named Lott Scang

Runeknight 3 / Armorer 5

Feat Grappler

Uses Giants Might from RK to go from Small to Large on bonus action.
Casts Enlarge to go to Huge.
Action Surge and tackle and pin the dragon knocking it prone.
Melee buddies go to town.

Can swap to Infiltrator and cast reduce to tiny to ride his Homunculus into battle or do stealthy stuffs.

This is a really great build (I would probably add four levels of Thief to it, as I like the bulk of my MCU heroes to be at 12th-level).

Any particular reason you chose Gnome for the build though?

I'd think that a Lightfoot Halfling would offer more distinct advantages (like the Nimble & Naturally Stealthy racial features).

[Draz74]

I drew up a Steve Rogers build in detail (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24426583&postcount=61).

Magic Stone did seem to be the best way I came up with to simulate throwing his shield.

I tried dipping a few different spellcasting classes, and in each case ran into problems (including, but not limited to, not being able to find enough spells that could be re-fluffed as nonmagical).

I settled, for now, on taking the Magic Initiate (Druid) feat, which let me select only 3 spells to re-fluff and didn't prohibit using a metal shield. It lets him cast Magic Stone, boost his saves at least a little bit with Resistance, and run faster once per long rest -- all fairly in character, I think.

[Zonugal]

Magic Stone did seem to be the best way I came up with to simulate throwing his shield.

Why not just make a custom magic item for his shield?


Shield of Returning
Armor (shield), very rare (requires attunement)

While holding this shield, you gain a +1 bonus to AC. This bonus is in addition to the shield's normal bonus to AC. In addition you are considered proficient in wielding this shield as if it was an improvised weapon. It has the thrown property with a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet. When you hit with a ranged attack using this weapon, it flies back to your hand.


Something like that?

[col_impact]

Don't need to hoss, cause we aren't adapting Steve Rogers from the comic books.

Again, please show me where in the MCU Captain America studies a spell book.

Or when he went to wizard school???

Wizard school doesn't exist in Caps world so it is re-flavored to exist. The Bible, Bucky's dog tag. Shield technology. A patriotic song he sings to himself. The rituals that get you through war. People cast a lot of luck spells on themselves when they go to war. Ask any anthropologist.

[Falconcry]

This is a really great build (I would probably add four levels of Thief to it, as I like the bulk of my MCU heroes to be at 12th-level).

Any particular reason you chose Gnome for the build though?

I'd think that a Lightfoot Halfling would offer more distinct advantages (like the Nimble & Naturally Stealthy racial features).

The reason for gnome is it armorer’s weapons are thunder gauntlets that are simple weapons that work off Int rather then str/dex. Planning to go to artificer 17 as you get infusions for belt of giant strength etc. The power armor also has a stealth version already and hard to sneak attack with your fist. Rogue really is not needed. Go criminal background if you need to for story but artificers are already proficient in thieve’s tools.

Check out the runeknight and armorer UAs for more

[Draz74]

Why not just make a custom magic item for his shield?

Something like that?

It does seem strange when I'm already being so indulgent (with high levels, UA, high ability scores, and magic items), huh?

But the thing is, it's a slippery slope. Once I allow myself to include homebrew to make a character more similar to their MCU origin, why not do the same for all the other heroes? Why not homebrew a custom magic item that emulates Ant-Man's shrinking perfectly, or use those MCU-based homebrew subclasses someone posted a link to?

And that kind of becomes a never-ending project and defeats the challenge of the building process.

[Zonugal]

It does seem strange when I'm already being so indulgent (with high levels, UA, high ability scores, and magic items), huh?

But the thing is, it's a slippery slope. Once I allow myself to include homebrew to make a character more similar to their MCU origin, why not do the same for all the other heroes? Why not homebrew a custom magic item that emulates Ant-Man's shrinking perfectly, or use those MCU-based homebrew subclasses someone posted a link to?

And that kind of becomes a never-ending project and defeats the challenge of the building process.

I mean, that's fair.

If anything I think this just shows a reoccuring lack of support from WotC for classic magical items (and magical enchantments for magic items).

[Zonugal]

Wizard school doesn't exist in Caps world so it is re-flavored to exist.

Wha...

Where do you think Dr Strange learned magic???

[Draz74]

I mean, that's fair.

If anything I think this just shows a reoccuring lack of support from WotC for classic magical items (and magical enchantments for magic items).

Yeah, I've said since the first 5e splatbooks were coming out that what was needed most was a Magic Item Compendium.

* * *

So I guess Ant-Man is next on the to-do list, as the one who's generated the most recent discussion?

[AgenderArcee]

The Tony build is great but what do you have for his Spell-Storing Item (level 11 Artificer feature)? Can't be the Wand of Fireball because SSI only works with a 1st or 2nd level spell. I'd suggest having it be Wand of Magic Missile so he can dish out more repulsor rays!

Also, a suggestion for Cap's shield: just give it the effects of the Returning Weapon Artificer infusion.

[col_impact]

Wha...

Where do you think Dr Strange learned magic???

At a monastery where they have a library of religious books.

[col_impact]

I drew up a Steve Rogers build in detail (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24426583&postcount=61).

Magic Stone did seem to be the best way I came up with to simulate throwing his shield.

I tried dipping a few different spellcasting classes, and in each case ran into problems (including, but not limited to, not being able to find enough spells that could be re-fluffed as nonmagical).

I settled, for now, on taking the Magic Initiate (Druid) feat, which let me select only 3 spells to re-fluff and didn't prohibit using a metal shield. It lets him cast Magic Stone, boost his saves at least a little bit with Resistance, and run faster once per long rest -- all fairly in character, I think.

Just a data point for you. My build for Steve Rogers flat out destroys yours in PvP and in team play. If winnability is a concern you might want to revisit some choices.

[RazorChain]

I once played an armored Sorcerer and used the fly spell extensively until he got a ring of flying. He used mostly blasting spells and my DM was not amused when he painted his armor red and yellow.

Every character I play in D&D is a superhero and I always give them names like Nightstar (Paladin) "In your darkest hour I'll become your brightest star." The Dark Mariachi (Bard) "Never heard of the Dark Mariachi no? Your wife certainly has though"

[col_impact]

I once played an armored Sorcerer and used the fly spell extensively until he got a ring of flying. He used mostly blasting spells and my DM was not amused when he painted his armor red and yellow.

Every character I play in D&D is a superhero and I always give them names like Nightstar (Paladin) "In your darkest hour I'll become your brightest star." The Dark Mariachi (Bard) "Never heard of the Dark Mariachi no? Your wife certainly has though"

A design priority of my characters is that they actually kick serious butt. Flavoring is then easy to do once the character has actual awesome abilities. I don't agree with all the weak sauce Conan builds I am seeing on this thread.

An alt take for Steve Rogers or Sir Galahad would be 1 Monk/ 0-2 Bladesinger/ 0-2 Divination Wizard/ 0-2 Paladin/ 0-2 Shepherd Druid/ 17 Arcana Cleric. He can get BB which he uses with his shield as an improvised weapon.

His build would key off Dex and Wisdom for attacks and AC. Perfect.

His Shield would then have several tricks.

1) Shield Master

2) Catapult

3) Unseen Servant to return shield

4) Gust for at range push and billowing hair

5) Spiritual Weapon - animated shield

6) Animate Objects - alt remote control Shield

7) Booming Blade and/or smite and lots of spell slots. Vibranium go boom!

8) Sacred Flame reflavored as Shield indirect trick shot.


Cap is a character who benefits from Divine luck and Divine backed Charisma. He can befriend humans, even animals, almost magically and boost the confidence of the warriors around him. That is represented by Bear Totem Spirit and Unicorn Spirit path of building him or Inspiring Leader feat.

As a Cleric, he can thamaturgy, guidance, resistance, spare the dying, revivify, raise dead, lesser restoration, greater restoration, command, etc. which is completely on character. Perfect.

He can crush enemy spirits just by being near them Spirit Guardians. Perfect.

Sanctuary is a great spell for him. Healing Word to command a soldier to get back up and fight.

His fighting style is unarmed based and he doesn't wear armor. His AC stays high even without a shield. Perfect

Mobility feat is best 1st feat to grab. Get longstrider from a spell list and maybe even expeditious retreat and he is zooming around the battlefield, lighting people up with thunderous Shield booming blade hits.

Other great feats are Lucky and Alert.

Arcana Cleric means spell use is divine in nature and comes from faith in justice.

Magic Jar could be reflavored as Super Soldier origin story.

Symbol, Regenerate is a great 7th level pick for him. Holy Aura, Anti-magic Field, and Mind Blank are great 8th level picjs.

He can snag Wish (Doh!) or go for Foresight at level 9 or Invulnerability or Time Stop or use Shapechange to snag 4 attacks permanently among other things.

Divine Intervention is perfect for him. MCU part one was all about him proving he was worthy of wielding Mjolnir and restoring the universe with time travel.

So you just reflavor Spiritual Weapon to now be Mjolnir, etc. Time Stop. Planar Travel.

[Draz74]

Credit to Falconcry for the idea to use Rune Knight for Giant-Man ...

Scott Lang

Base Ability Scores: Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 15
Race: Lightfoot Halfling
Background: Burglar (Criminal Contact, thieves' tools, one gaming set, Sleight of Hand, Stealth)
Class(es): (UA) Armorer Artificer 5 / (UA) Rune Knight Fighter 3 / Shepherd Druid 5 / Rogue 1
Feats: Squat Nimbleness, (UA) Brawny
Alignment: CG

AC: 22 (obsidian flint dragon plate +2, shield)
HP: 104 (11d8+3d10+28)
Speed: 30 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 14 (+2), Dex 20 (+5), Con 14 (+2), Int 18 (+4), Wis 13 (+1), Cha 16 (+3)
Saves: Con +7, Int +9
Skills: Acrobatics +10, Athletics +12, Investigation +9, Perception +6, Sleight of Hand +10, Stealth +15
Tools: thieves' tools (expertise), three-dragon ante set, forgery kit, tinker's tools, glassblower's tools, smith's tools
Senses: passive Perception 16
Languages: Common, Halfling, Druidic, Sylvan, Thieves' Cant, Giant

Spellcasting (artificer): Int-based; DC 17, attack +9.
Spellcasting (druid): Wis-based; DC 14, attack +6.
Cantrips: (artificer) dancing lights, guidance; (druid) infestation, resistance, gust
1st level (4/day): (artificer) absorb elements, expeditious retreat, longstrider, magic missile, shield; (druid) animal friendship, beast bond
2nd level (3/day): (artificer) darkvision, enlarge/reduce, invisibility, mirror image, shatter, spider climb; (druid) beast sense, enhance ability, pass without trace
3rd level (3/day): (druid) conjure animals
4th level (1/day)

Combat Superiority (1/short rest):

Maneuver - Trip Attack: weapon attack hit adds +1d6 damage; Large or smaller target knocked prone (Strength save DC 18 negates)

Spirit Totem (1/short rest): bonus action, range 60 ft, duration 1 minute (or until incapacitated); 30-ft-radius aura; bonus action move aura origin up to 60 ft to point you can see

Bear Spirit: chosen creatures in initial aura gain 10 temporary hp; Scott and allies have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws
Hawk Spirit: Scott and allies have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks; Scott can use reaction to grant advantage to attack roll against target in aura
Unicorn Spirit: Scott and allies have advantage on checks to detect creatures in aura; when Scott uses spell slot to heal, chosen creatures in aura also regain 5 hp

Small Size
Lucky: reroll natural 1 on ability check/saving throw/attack roll, must use new roll
Brave: advantage on saving throws against frightened
Halfling Nimbleness: move freely through larger creatures' spaces
Naturally Stealthy: can hide when obscured only by a larger creature
Magical Tinkering: ribbon
Second Wind (1/short rest): bonus action regain 1d10+3 hp
Speech of the Woods: can talk to animals and understand them in return on a rudimentary level
Armor Model - Guardian: gain 5 temporary hp as bonus action; use armor as arcane focus; can use smith's tools to switch to Infiltrator armor model at end of short or long rest (LOSE disadvantage on Stealth checks, thunder gauntlets, temporary hp as bonus action feature; GAIN 5 ft walking speed)
The Right Tool for the Job: ribbon
Squat Nimbleness: advantage on Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks to escape from grapple
Brawny: count as one size category larger for carrying capacity
Action Surge (1/short rest): take an additional action on his turn
Sneak Attack: +1d6 to damage 1/turn if using ranged or finesse weapon; requires advantage on attack roll or adjacent enemy of target
Invoke Ise Rune (1/short rest): bonus action gain +2 to Strength score for 10 minutes
Giant Might (2/long rest): bonus action become Large for 1 minute, along with equipment (deal +1d6 damage with weapon attacks; advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws)

Actions:

Wild Shape (2/short rest): assume the form of a beast you have seen with CR 1/2 or less and no fly speed; lasts up to 2 hours or until ended as a bonus action or until 0 hp, unconsciousness, or death; alternatively cast find familiar (duration 2 hours, no material component)
Extra Attack (2 total)
Thunder Gauntlets (Guardian mode): +10 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d8+5 thunder damage; target has disadvantage on attack rolls against other targets than Scott until start of Scott's next turn.
Lightning Launcher (Infiltrator mode): +10 to hit, range 90/300 ft, 1d6+5 lightning damage; once on each of Scott's turns can deal additional +1d6 lightning damage.

Reactions:

Invoke Skye Rune (1/short rest): when creature within 30 ft is hit by attack, redirect that attack to another creature (except attacker) within 30 ft of Scott, ignoring attack's range limitations

Magic Items:

Obsidian Flint Dragon Plate with Ise Rune: +2 AC; resist poison damage; advantage on ability checks or saving throws to avoid or end grappled condition on self; advantage on Wisdom (Animal Handling) and Charisma (Intimidation) checks
Shield with Skye Rune: advantage on Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) and Charisma (Deception) checks
(Infusion) Bag of Holding: hold up to 500 lb. or 64 cft in extradimensional pocket; weigh only 15 lb. regardless of contents

[Draz74]

The Tony build is great but what do you have for his Spell-Storing Item (level 11 Artificer feature)? Can't be the Wand of Fireball because SSI only works with a 1st or 2nd level spell. I'd suggest having it be Wand of Magic Missile so he can dish out more repulsor rays!
Good eye! I did indeed miss that ability on Tony. But I think I'm going to cop-out and say that the item in question will appear on War Machine instead of on Tony, as he already has enough endurance on his "repulsor rays."


Also, a suggestion for Cap's shield: just give it the effects of the Returning Weapon Artificer infusion.
Yeah, I considered that, but I don't like how it's supposed to be a temporary enchantment by RAW ...

[Falconcry]

I like it for the most part. Again gnome is better then halfling for this since the weapons work off Int not Dex ( stats should be swapped). Rather then druid I was thinking of taking Artificer to 17 for 5th level spells namely Animate Objects for your ant swarm. I still don't understand the need for rogue 1, is it just for expertise? Thunder Gauntlets and Lightning Launchers are not finesse weapons and do not work off dex.

[Draz74]

I like it for the most part. Again gnome is better then halfling for this since the weapons work off Int not Dex ( stats should be swapped). Rather then druid I was thinking of taking Artificer to 17 for 5th level spells namely Animate Objects for your ant swarm.
Oh absolutely an Intelligence/Dexterity swap would be stronger. I just chose them this way to reflect what I think the Marvel character is like.

And even if I could fit 17 levels of Artificer on the build, I wanted the ant swarm to come online sooner than that. Hence Conjure Animals.

I'm not saying you should change your build/plans in any way to copy mine, in case anyone thought that was implied. You do you. :smallsmile:


I still don't understand the need for rogue 1, is it just for expertise? Thunder Gauntlets and Lightning Launchers are not finesse weapons and do not work off dex.
Rogue is mostly for expertise, yeah, and because the 6th level of Artificer expertise-in-all-tools didn't feel right for the character. It's a minor quibble for sure.

Lightning Launcher is a ranged weapon that "can" use your Intelligence modifier for attack and damage rolls. I take that to mean it CAN still work off Dexterity if Dexterity is higher, as it is for this build. And it should apply Sneak Attack when used in that way. That wasn't super important to me, though, as I expect this build to stay in Guardian mode most of the time in spite of the Stealth disadvantage (because Ant-Man fights a lot more in melee than with electrical ranged attacks).

[col_impact]

Credit to Falconcry for the idea to use Rune Knight for Giant-Man ...

Scott Lang

Base Ability Scores: Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 15
Race: Lightfoot Halfling
Background: Burglar (Criminal Contact, thieves' tools, one gaming set, Sleight of Hand, Stealth)
Class(es): (UA) Armorer Artificer 5 / (UA) Rune Knight Fighter 3 / Shepherd Druid 5 / Rogue 1
Feats: Squat Nimbleness, (UA) Brawny
Alignment: CG

AC: 22 (obsidian flint dragon plate +2, shield)
HP: 104 (11d8+3d10+28)
Speed: 30 ft
Final Ability Scores: Str 14 (+2), Dex 20 (+5), Con 14 (+2), Int 18 (+4), Wis 13 (+1), Cha 16 (+3)
Saves: Con +7, Int +9
Skills: Acrobatics +10, Athletics +12, Investigation +9, Perception +6, Sleight of Hand +10, Stealth +15
Tools: thieves' tools (expertise), three-dragon ante set, forgery kit, tinker's tools, glassblower's tools, smith's tools
Senses: passive Perception 16
Languages: Common, Halfling, Druidic, Sylvan, Thieves' Cant, Giant

Spellcasting (artificer): Int-based; DC 17, attack +9.
Spellcasting (druid): Wis-based; DC 14, attack +6.
Cantrips: (artificer) dancing lights, guidance; (druid) infestation, resistance, gust
1st level (4/day): (artificer) absorb elements, expeditious retreat, longstrider, magic missile, shield; (druid) animal friendship, beast bond
2nd level (3/day): (artificer) darkvision, enlarge/reduce, invisibility, mirror image, shatter, spider climb; (druid) beast sense, enhance ability, pass without trace
3rd level (3/day): (druid) conjure animals
4th level (1/day)

Combat Superiority (1/short rest):

Maneuver - Trip Attack: weapon attack hit adds +1d6 damage; Large or smaller target knocked prone (Strength save DC 18 negates)

Spirit Totem (1/short rest): bonus action, range 60 ft, duration 1 minute (or until incapacitated); 30-ft-radius aura; bonus action move aura origin up to 60 ft to point you can see

Bear Spirit: chosen creatures in initial aura gain 10 temporary hp; Scott and allies have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws
Hawk Spirit: Scott and allies have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks; Scott can use reaction to grant advantage to attack roll against target in aura
Unicorn Spirit: Scott and allies have advantage on checks to detect creatures in aura; when Scott uses spell slot to heal, chosen creatures in aura also regain 5 hp

Small Size
Lucky: reroll natural 1 on ability check/saving throw/attack roll, must use new roll
Brave: advantage on saving throws against frightened
Halfling Nimbleness: move freely through larger creatures' spaces
Naturally Stealthy: can hide when obscured only by a larger creature
Magical Tinkering: ribbon
Second Wind (1/short rest): bonus action regain 1d10+3 hp
Speech of the Woods: can talk to animals and understand them in return on a rudimentary level
Armor Model - Guardian: gain 5 temporary hp as bonus action; use armor as arcane focus; can use smith's tools to switch to Infiltrator armor model at end of short or long rest (LOSE disadvantage on Stealth checks, thunder gauntlets, temporary hp as bonus action feature; GAIN 5 ft walking speed)
The Right Tool for the Job: ribbon
Squat Nimbleness: advantage on Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks to escape from grapple
Brawny: count as one size category larger for carrying capacity
Action Surge (1/short rest): take an additional action on his turn
Sneak Attack: +1d6 to damage 1/turn if using ranged or finesse weapon; requires advantage on attack roll or adjacent enemy of target
Invoke Ise Rune (1/short rest): bonus action gain +2 to Strength score for 10 minutes
Giant Might (2/long rest): bonus action become Large for 1 minute, along with equipment (deal +1d6 damage with weapon attacks; advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws)

Actions:

Wild Shape (2/short rest): assume the form of a beast you have seen with CR 1/2 or less and no fly speed; lasts up to 2 hours or until ended as a bonus action or until 0 hp, unconsciousness, or death; alternatively cast find familiar (duration 2 hours, no material component)
Extra Attack (2 total)
Thunder Gauntlets (Guardian mode): +10 to hit, reach 5 ft, 1d8+5 thunder damage; target has disadvantage on attack rolls against other targets than Scott until start of Scott's next turn.
Lightning Launcher (Infiltrator mode): +10 to hit, range 90/300 ft, 1d6+5 lightning damage; once on each of Scott's turns can deal additional +1d6 lightning damage.

Reactions:

Invoke Skye Rune (1/short rest): when creature within 30 ft is hit by attack, redirect that attack to another creature (except attacker) within 30 ft of Scott, ignoring attack's range limitations

Magic Items:

Obsidian Flint Dragon Plate with Ise Rune: +2 AC; resist poison damage; advantage on ability checks or saving throws to avoid or end grappled condition on self; advantage on Wisdom (Animal Handling) and Charisma (Intimidation) checks
Shield with Skye Rune: advantage on Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) and Charisma (Deception) checks
(Infusion) Bag of Holding: hold up to 500 lb. or 64 cft in extradimensional pocket; weigh only 15 lb. regardless of contents


So much U.A. which cannot be used. Even so my Ant Man build dominates this build.

Your magic item selects are still subpar.

[JNAProductions]

So much U.A. which cannot be used. Even so my Ant Man build dominates this build.

Your magic item selects are still subpar.

Why can't UA be used? Hell, that's the OP of the thread, and you're telling them they can't set their rules for builds?

[col_impact]

Why can't UA be used? Hell, that's the OP of the thread, and you're telling them they can't set their rules for builds?

U.A. pertains to my meta and many a meta. If it's not relevant to you then disregard.

Even so my build is better.

You need Shepherd 17 if you want to unlock Titan form that was unveilled in last Avenger's.

[JNAProductions]

U.A. pertains to my meta and many a meta. If it's not relevant to you then disregard.

Even so my build is better.

I didn't see your full build posted-mind quoting it? Because if by "better" you mean "more powerful" I can believe that, but if by "better" you mean "more aligned with the goals of the thread" I'd want proof of that.

And you're actively telling the OP "UA isn't allowed" when it's THEIR THREAD. They set the rules-and the rules allow for UA. I'd look askance at them if they were trying to use, say, Lore Wizard, because that's overpowered nonsense, but Rune Knight was fine, when I last looked at it. Have not looked over Armorer yet (no player's asked for it) but most UA is decent enough in terms of balance.

In other words, your meta is irrelevant to this thread. My meta is too-it's only the OP's rules that matter.

Question To The OP: Not about your builds, but about the "Order of appearance" you have listed. Are the old Hulk Movies (from early 2000s) canon to the MCU? Because if so, wouldn't that make Bruce the first appearance?

[Draz74]

Question To The OP: Not about your builds, but about the "Order of appearance" you have listed. Are the old Hulk Movies (from early 2000s) canon to the MCU? Because if so, wouldn't that make Bruce the first appearance?

The 2003 "Hulk" film has nothing to do with the MCU. It was produced by Universal Pictures, with no involvement by Marvel beyond selling a license AFAIK.

The 2008 "The Incredible Hulk" film was sort of part of the MCU, with Stan Lee and Robert Downey Jr. making cameos in it, even though the MCU wasn't really an established thing yet. It was later retconned to be canon, even though it has Edward Norton instead of Mark Ruffalo in the titular role. But it came out a few months after Iron Man, so Tony Stark is still the first in order of appearance.

* * *

Any votes on my next detailed build? I'm leaning towards Dr. Strange. Still not sure whether to just post my draft build, though, or re-build it with a level or two of Mystic multiclass.

[Zonugal]

Any votes on my next detailed build? I'm leaning towards Dr. Strange. Still not sure whether to just post my draft build, though, or re-build it with a level or two of Mystic multiclass.

I think you should continue to tackle them in chronological order.

The people demand War Machine!

[Falconcry]

Wouldn't Sitwell be before Warmachine? Bald Goblin Oathbreaker?

[col_impact]

Wouldn't Sitwell be before Warmachine? Bald Goblin Oathbreaker?

Do whatever you want next, but please no more weak Conan builds. I need builds that have superhero level of power. The Cap build you posted can't last a round vs Thanos.

[kazaryu]

Yeah, I considered that, but I don't like how it's supposed to be a temporary enchantment by RAW ...

tbf, caps cap uses some tech to have his shield return, particularly in later movies. which can break down/be reassembled into something else. which still fits the mechanics of the artificer, he just never *does* that.

as for getting it to bounce of something and return to close enough to catch it (i.e. the first captain america) those are obviously just him rocking out his skill checks. they just don't show, on screen, the times he wiffs the rolls.

[col_impact]

tbf, caps cap uses some tech to have his shield return, particularly in later movies. which can break down/be reassembled into something else. which still fits the mechanics of the artificer, he just never *does* that.

as for getting it to bounce of something and return to close enough to catch it (i.e. the first captain america) those are obviously just him rocking out his skill checks. they just don't show, on screen, the times he wiffs the rolls.
Or you know just use Unseen Servant.

[kazaryu]

Or you know just use Unseen Servant.

right! yes! how could i forget. the slow moving, action economy consuming, resource consuming spell effect that dies if a goblin farts in its general direction! that definitely fits the theme of cap tossing his shield!

no way it accidentally gets caught in an explosion, left behind in a mobile battle, or just...doesn't exist because there is exactly 0 way to justify captain america (in the mcu) as being literally any brand of full caster (much less an arcane caster). its a *massive* stretch having him be a partial caster, although at least paladin fits him thematically, and the lay on hands ability and death ward spell both work really well (although thats true on nearly any movie protag).

[col_impact]

right! yes! how could i forget. the slow moving, action economy consuming, resource consuming spell effect that dies if a goblin farts in its general direction! that definitely fits the theme of cap tossing his shield!

no way it accidentally gets caught in an explosion, left behind in a mobile battle, or just...doesn't exist because there is exactly 0 way to justify captain america (in the mcu) as being literally any brand of full caster (much less an arcane caster). its a *massive* stretch having him be a partial caster, although at least paladin fits him thematically, and the lay on hands ability and death ward spell both work really well (although thats true on nearly any movie protag).
It's bonus action, *scrubbed*

[kazaryu]

It's bonus action, *scrub the post, scrub the quote*

yes? so...first of all, lets address your 'rebuttal'. its a bonus action....which still consumes action economy. to say nothing of the fact that its a bonus action....on a martial character.....who use their bonus action far, far more frequently than caster types.....particularly if they have...oh right, teh shield master feat.

and how do you respond to the fact that any explosion that catches cap is gonna vaporize his ability to 'retrieve' his shield? 1hp...any form of guaranteed damage and 'poof', unseen servant is gone. thats hardly representative of what we see from cap.

what about the fact that if cap needs to run someone down his ability to 'retrieve' his shield means he has to slow himself down to 15feet *per round*. technically less, since the unseen servant needs to move faster than he is in order to actually beat him to his shield and therefore emulate the near telekinesis we're trying to emulate. no chasing down moving cars, no dashing through a hallway taking out nazis as he goes, or running through a courtyard taking out tanks and ****. nah, <2.5 feet/second. thats our super hero.

[col_impact]

yes? so...first of all, lets address your 'rebuttal'. its a bonus action....which still consumes action economy. to say nothing of the fact that its a bonus action....on a martial character.....who use their bonus action far, far more frequently than caster types.....particularly if they have...oh right, teh shield master feat.

and how do you respond to the fact that any explosion that catches cap is gonna vaporize his ability to 'retrieve' his shield? 1hp...any form of guaranteed damage and 'poof', unseen servant is gone. thats hardly representative of what we see from cap.

what about the fact that if cap needs to run someone down his ability to 'retrieve' his shield means he has to slow himself down to 15feet *per round*. technically less, since the unseen servant needs to move faster than he is in order to actually beat him to his shield and therefore emulate the near telekinesis we're trying to emulate. no chasing down moving cars, no dashing through a hallway taking out nazis as he goes, or running through a courtyard taking out tanks and ****. nah, <2.5 feet/second. thats our super hero.

You can have more than one unseen servant at a time.

[JNAProductions]

You can have more than one unseen servant at a time.

That rebuts... Virtually nothing that was said.

[col_impact]

That rebuts... Virtually nothing that was said.

No. It does. You just don't realize it yet. I have an active 13th level Cap build that kills Zariel in one-on-one PvP. Likes Unseen Servant a lot.

[JNAProductions]

No. It does. You just don't realize it yet. I have an active 13th level Cap build that kills Zariel in one-on-one PvP. Likes Unseen Servant a lot.

Then post it. Don't just say "I can totally do that, easy!" actually show your build.

And again-the aim of this thread is not "Build the most powerful characters possible, and then slap MCU names on them," it's "Build MCU characters in 5E." Power can be sacrificed for theme, though so far, the OP's done a good job making builds that are both flavorful and powerful.

[Zonugal]

I have an active 13th level Cap build that kills Zariel in one-on-one PvP.

Hey, that's a bad Captain America build.

Why can Captain America kill an arch-devil in a one-on-one fight?

That's far too powerful for Steve Rogers.

[Zonugal]

Wouldn't Sitwell be before Warmachine? Bald Goblin Oathbreaker?

I don't think Agent Sitwell really needs stats?

He certainly doesn't rank as an important enough character to necessitate them?

But, because you brought it up, I'd probably just say he's a low-level rogue.

[col_impact]

Hey, that's a bad Captain America build.

Why can Captain America kill an arch-devil in a one-on-one fight?

That's far too powerful for Steve Rogers.

What is the power comparison between Zariel and Thanos?

[Zonugal]

What is the power comparison between Zariel and Thanos?

Doesn't matter cause Steve Roger's can't kill Thanos in a one-on-one fight either.

[col_impact]

Doesn't matter cause Steve Roger's can't kill Thanos in a one-on-one fight either.

Cap is a tactical genius. It suits me as a player really well.

My first try led to defeat by Zariel. Luckily I lived. My second try beat her squarely. Superheros do the whole eventual win thing. Karate Kid, etc.

Currently my Cap is traveling through the planes undoing the harm brought upon the world by the《BBEG》

[kazaryu]

You can have more than one unseen servant at a time.

which is still limited to moving 15 feet per round, and would require you to spend several rounds before a combat setting up to even approach Caps level of retrievability on his shield. which in and of itself invalidates it as thematically similar to cap. as cap doesn't *need* to spend that time setting it up. he just walks into an area and starts chucking his shield around.

it doesn't matter that you have a 13th level pc that can beat zariel (i mean, you objectively don't unless zariel is being run like a goon, but thats beside the point). it doesn't matter if that 13th level PC is called 'steve rogers' or 'captain america'. what matters is how closely the way you built him matches up to what we see cap do in the movies.

and unseen servant is, objectively, not a good match for that. with some setup time it can *approximate* a match. but the setup time by itself removes it from consideration.



Cap is a tactical genius. It suits me as a player really well.

My first try led to defeat by Zariel. Luckily I lived. My second try beat her squarely. Superheros do the whole eventual win thing. Karate Kid, etc.

Currently my Cap is traveling through the planes undoing the harm brought upon the world by the《BBEG》


entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[col_impact]

which is still limited to moving 15 feet per round, and would require you to spend several rounds before a combat setting up to even approach Caps level of retrievability on his shield. which in and of itself invalidates it as thematically similar to cap. as cap doesn't *need* to spend that time setting it up. he just walks into an area and starts chucking his shield around.

it doesn't matter that you have a 13th level pc that can beat zariel (i mean, you objectively don't unless zariel is being run like a goon, but thats beside the point). it doesn't matter if that 13th level PC is called 'steve rogers' or 'captain america'. what matters is how closely the way you built him matches up to what we see cap do in the movies.

and unseen servant is, objectively, not a good match for that. with some setup time it can *approximate* a match. but the setup time by itself removes it from consideration.



entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Indeed I beat Zariel with a 13th level character. I just do a lot of PvP and you pick up a lot of techniques. There are a lot of wizard combos that only get shown off in PvP. Have you ever done AL PvP?

I think it is entirely relevant that my build can fight at the MCU power level and more or less take Cap as far as that character went in the MCU. Conan Cap can't do that.

[JNAProductions]

Post the build. Put your money where your mouth is.

[col_impact]

Post the build. Put your money where your mouth is.

We could duel it out. PM me.

[JNAProductions]

We could duel it out. PM me.

If you refuse to re-face Zariel, the only reasonable assumption one can make is that you’re not arguing in good faith.

No one should listen to you unless you have actual proof behind your words.

[col_impact]

If you refuse to re-face Zariel, the only reasonable assumption one can make is that you’re not arguing in good faith.

No one should listen to you unless you have actual proof behind your words.

I didn't refuse at all. You need to accept AL plus FAQ as standard first.

[JNAProductions]

I have no issue with that rule set. But you refuse to face Zariel. The one you claimed to beat. You wanted to face my 13th level PC, which is irrelevant to your claims. I’m a decent optimizer, but not a master-which you claim to be.

[kazaryu]

Indeed I beat Zariel with a 13th level character. I just do a lot of PvP and you pick up a lot of techniques. There are a lot of wizard combos that only get shown off in PvP. Have you ever done AL PvP?

I think it is entirely relevant that my build can fight at the MCU power level and more or less take Cap as far as that character went in the MCU. Conan Cap can't do that.

1. Still entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand

2. Then, by definition, the zariel was being played like a goon rather than an intelligent fighter.

Now if youd like to make an argument for how your character actually matches the theme of captain america, as a high level wizard. Thats one thing. But this thread is not about 'zomg ive got the strongest pvp build'.

Back to the discussion at hand, an artificer infusion granted by tony stark (the artificer) seems like a solid way to get the returning quality. And starks tech definitely borders on magical, particularly in the later movies no?

[col_impact]

I have no issue with that rule set. But you refuse to face Zariel. The one you claimed to beat. You wanted to face my 13th level PC, which is irrelevant to your claims. I’m a decent optimizer, but not a master-which you claim to be.

Sure. I have no problem facing Zariel. But I will only do so if we do a practice run first using a character you provide to make sure rule issues are ENTIRELY sorted out. That is important since we are effectively co-DMing the duel.

[Dork_Forge]

Sure. I have no problem facing Zariel. But I will only do so if we do a practice run first using a character you provide to make sure rule issues are ENTIRELY sorted out. That is important since we are effectively co-DMing the duel.

I am more than happy to step in as DM to make that a non issue.

[col_impact]

I am more than happy to step in as DM to make that a non issue.

AL ruleset and FAQ are adhered to 100%. I have other guidelines from Phoenix PvP Fight Cub that will be in effect. You cant be a DM because you have a stake in seeing me lose.

[Dork_Forge]

AL ruleset and FAQ are adhered to 100%. I have other guidelines from Phoenix PvP Fight Cub that will be in effect. You cant be a DM because you have a stake in seeing me lose.

So now you're adding on additional rules, I even googled what that was and got nothing but results for EVE and actual irl fighting. What would those rules be?

My ability to make rulings that adhere to RAW and RAI haven't been hindered by my view of a person in the 5 years I've been playing 5e, I don't see why I'd make an exception for yourself.

At the end of the day someone challenged you to repeat the feat you have irrelevantly claimed in multiple threads. You clearly refused this as an outright challenge.

How many more excuses are you going to make?

[col_impact]

So now you're adding on additional rules, I even googled what that was and got nothing but results for EVE and actual irl fighting. What would those rules be?

My ability to make rulings that adhere to RAW and RAI haven't been hindered by my view of a person in the 5 years I've been playing 5e, I don't see why I'd make an exception for yourself.

At the end of the day someone challenged you to repeat the feat you have irrelevantly claimed in multiple threads. You clearly refused this as an outright challenge.

How many more excuses are you going to make?

My conditions are perfectly reasonable. This is JANP's first rodeo. It isn't my first rodeo.

[kazaryu]

.
He wants y'all to accept those rulings because they include some cheese that is 100% not meant to be how the rules worked. Thats all. He wants to you all to accept that his cheese is allowed. Now, idk what that cheese could be. And i highly doubt that an intelligently played zariel would fall victim to it regardless. But that is why he doesnt want a different dm, and why he wants a 'practice run'.

That being said, its entirely off topic please move it to a different thread.

Col_impact, theres no need to get into a duel, because 1. A single bout is ultimately meaningless anyway. Its all about consistency (after all, this game is heavily rng). And 2. Most of us wont see it happen. If you think you have a better way of representing captain america, by all means share it. We dont need a full statblock, just general class breakdown/combat strategy will be fine. But please stop this 'your build is weak and mine is strong and therefore fits the theme better!' Style of argumentation. Its not helpful

[col_impact]

.
He wants y'all to accept those rulings because they include some cheese that is 100% not meant to be how the rules worked. Thats all. He wants to you all to accept that his cheese is allowed. Now, idk what that cheese could be. And i highly doubt that an intelligently played zariel would fall victim to it regardless. But that is why he doesnt want a different dm, and why he wants a 'practice run'.

That being said, its entirely off topic please move it to a different thread.

Col_impact, theres no need to get into a duel, because 1. A single bout is ultimately meaningless anyway. Its all about consistency (after all, this game is heavily rng). And 2. Most of us wont see it happen. If you think you have a better way of representing captain america, by all means share it. We dont need a full statblock, just general class breakdown/combat strategy will be fine. But please stop this 'your build is weak and mine is strong and therefore fits the theme better!' Style of argumentation. Its not helpful

Anyone could complain in the practice round if anything was unfair. That then leads to a hammering out in fine detail to an agreed upon ruleset. This is exactly why the practice round takes place.

[kazaryu]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610039-Can-a-13th-level-pc-beat-zariel

[Falconcry]

For Peter Parker I would suggest Monk Grung. They have a climb speed equal to their walking speed ( and are sticky). Standing long jump of 25 and high jump of 15 ( increased by Monk movement?). They already can come with red skin with blue/black spots.

And they need to be home by 11 PM for their nightly bath.

[JNAProductions]

For Peter Parker I would suggest Monk Grung. They have a climb speed equal to their walking speed ( and are sticky). Standing long jump of 25 and high jump of 15 ( increased by Monk movement?). They already can come with red skin with blue/black spots.

And they need to be home by 11 PM for their nightly bath.

Where is Grung located? I've heard it before, but it's not in any book I own.

[Falconcry]

Tomb of Annihilation supplement called One Grung Above.

[JNAProductions]

Tomb of Annihilation supplement called One Grung Above.

Garch. Thank you!

[Draz74]

Hey, so, I got caught up with the new Hearthstone expansion and lost my obsessive drive to make MCU builds. I may still do them, but not at the breakneck pace I was keeping up when I started this thread. :smallsmile:

Wow, this thread has taken off in the days I haven't checked it!


I think you should continue to tackle them in chronological order.

The people demand War Machine!

So I have kept musing on how to do War Machine, and I still haven't come up with a solution I love. I'm leaning towards Artificer/Fighter, but I'm still taking suggestions (from people who don't mind "Conan" builds).


For Peter Parker I would suggest Monk Grung. They have a climb speed equal to their walking speed ( and are sticky). Standing long jump of 25 and high jump of 15 ( increased by Monk movement?). They already can come with red skin with blue/black spots.

And they need to be home by 11 PM for their nightly bath.

Heh, it's creative. But Grung is notoriously overpowered as a race, I wouldn't allow it as a DM. Which makes me reluctant to use it in this thread either.


Back to the discussion at hand, an artificer infusion granted by tony stark (the artificer) seems like a solid way to get the returning quality. And starks tech definitely borders on magical, particularly in the later movies no?

One problem with this is that the shield functioned long before Tony was born. The other is that Tony's build uses up all six of his Infused Items. (If Artificers could get extra infusions by sharing them with party members, that would make War Machine much easier!)


Power can be sacrificed for theme, though so far, the OP's done a good job making builds that are both flavorful and powerful.

Thanks!

[Zonugal]

So I have kept musing on how to do War Machine, and I still haven't come up with a solution I love. I'm leaning towards Artificer/Fighter, but I'm still taking suggestions (from people who don't mind "Conan" builds).

I'd probably do something like an Eldritch Knight build? That way you can have him firing off fireballs and such from his armor.


One problem with this is that the shield functioned long before Tony was born. The other is that Tony's build uses up all six of his Infused Items. (If Artificers could get extra infusions by sharing them with party members, that would make War Machine much easier!)

Well, to be accurate to the MCU, Cap's shield was made by Howard Stark (who would be an Artificer). Due to an infusion lasting forever (until the Artificer dies), you could just hand-wave away that some Shield/Stark scientist rebuilt Cap's shield after he was found in ice.

It'd mean that particular Artificer has one of their infusion's "locked-away" so to speak, but it certainly is a way of doing it.