Making a Blindness/Deafness spell as 6th or 7th level spell

[Cikomyr2]

What it says on the tin.

I am not talking about the up casted level 2 spell. I am talking a bona fide 6 or 7 level blindness spell.

I was thinking maybe it affects your spellcasting modifier of targets for 1 minute, and every time in your turn they have to reroll a saving throw or be blinded again? Some sort of persistent blindness?

[NorthernPhoenix]

Feeblemind is (almost) permanent, is much worse (for the victim), and is a 8th level spell. I don't think it would be too out there for a 7th level Blindness to be permanent, or a sixth level version to use the "once a month" save that Feeblemind uses.

[Boci]

Feeblemind is (almost) permanent, is much worse (for the victim), and is a 8th level spell. I don't think it would be too out there for a 7th level Blindness to be permanent, or a sixth level version to use the "once a month" save that Feeblemind uses.

In a fight, feeblemind might be "better". The wording is a bit unclear, but it seems that a strength or dex based attacker would continue fighting. They definitly couldn't use advanced tactics, but for a fair few enemies that won't even matter, and even when it does, they're still largely capable. Blindness wrecks the vast majority of opponents, with disadvantage on any attack (if they even know where the PCs are) and giving the PCs advantage against them.

For a 6th level spell, I'd probably let it effect 3 targets, and require an action if they want to repeat the same.

[Reynaerde]

There used to be a level 7 spell called power word: blind. If you figure out the hitpoint conversion they used for the other power word spells you are set...

EDIT: seems like the other power word spells simply use the original hit point requirements.

[MaxWilson]

There used to be a level 7 spell called power word: blind. If you figure out the hitpoint conversion they used for the other power word spells you are set...

EDIT: seems like the other power word spells simply use the original hit point requirements.

And since 5E HP are inflated by 2x or 3x w/rt AD&D, the original hit point requirements are now extremely inappropriate and the spells are notoriously weak.

You could triple the limit for Power Word: Kill to 300 HP and it still wouldn't be out of line for a 9th level spell.

[Segev]

300 hp limit would outright kill a fair number of CR > 20 unique fiends in Tome if Foes, and reduce most of the others to effectively less than 100 - often less than 50.

I think your estimation of 5e inflation of hp is off.

[HiveStriker]

And since 5E HP are inflated by 2x or 3x w/rt AD&D, the original hit point requirements are now extremely inappropriate and the spells are notoriously weak.

You could triple the limit for Power Word: Kill to 300 HP and it still wouldn't be out of line for a 9th level spell.
Note really. :)

300 hp limit would outright kill a fair number of CR > 20 unique fiends in Tome if Foes, and reduce most of the others to effectively less than 100 - often less than 50.

I think your estimation of 5e inflation of hp is off.
Completely.
Let's remind everyone that Power Word spells bypass everything at least on the first round: as long as you meet the requirement, it just takes effect. No saves, so no Legendary resistances.

So even a Power Word Stun can be worth preparing when you don't have a Monk with at least 5 ki and advantage on attacks available (because on high-end targets you will need at least 3 successful attempts, possibly 4. Power Word Pain can completely disable a caster in a similar way.

Which brings to Power Word Kill: no save, no escape, your only chance is trying a Counterspell.
You can get an Archmage right out of the fight, a Demilich, and some other nasty creatures. With 100% accuracy and 100% efficiency (ok I'm speaking using averages here, so it's not guaranteed to work if DM rolls enemy HP systematically ^^).

Even against other creatures it can be useful: it still means you basically deal 100 HP damage whatever happens, so can spare one or two rounds of potential hurt the creature may otherwise land.

Feels powerful enough to me, even if it is situational. :)

[Cikomyr2]

I dislike that Power Word Blind is one and done

The point of my idea is to scale up the persistence. One save might save you for a round, but you still have to make the save the next round or you are reblinded.

[Segev]

I dislike that Power Word Blind is one and done

The point of my idea is to scale up the persistence. One save might save you for a round, but you still have to make the save the next round or you are reblinded.

I assume you mean Blindness/Deafness, not Power Word: Blind.

The biggest strength of the existing second level spell is the duration: it’s one minute with no Concentration. You can spam it (provided the spell slots....a sorcerer or diviner would be great with this) and maintain Concentration on something else.

Earlier editions’ power word: blind was 7th level, and blinded those with 101-200 hp for rounds, with 51-100 hp for minutes, and those with 50 or fewer hp permanently. More than 200 granted immunity. Hp checked at casting, single target.

This edition’s power word: pain offers a save to end each round despite working initially if they have low enough hit points. You expressly want to avoid that. So I think power words are not the approach for you.

If you’re okay with Concentration, have you tried using phantasmal force of something around their head? They’d need to spend their actions to “save” against it each round until the succeeded, and that’d be an intelligence (investigation) check rather than any sort of wisdom save.

[Boci]

I dislike that Power Word Blind is one and done

The point of my idea is to scale up the persistence. One save might save you for a round, but you still have to make the save the next round or you are reblinded. So something like:

Greater Blindness
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 ft
Components: V
Duration: 1 minute
Classes: Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer, Wizard
You can blind a foe. Choose one creature that you can see within range to make a Constitution saving throw. If it fails, the target is blinded until the end of their next turn. For the duration of the spell, at the end of each of its turns, the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failure, they are blinded until the end of their next turn.

[clash]

The ua mystic has a similar power to this for the frightened condition:
Incite Panic (5psi; conc., 1 min.)
As an action, choose up to eight creatures you can see within 90 feet of you that can see you. At the start of each of a target’s turns before your concentration ends, the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target is frightened until the start of its next turn, and you roll a die. If you roll an odd number, the frightened target moves half its speed in arandom direction and takes no action on that turn, other than to scream in terror. If you roll an even number, the frightened target makes one melee attack against a random target within its reach. If there is no such target, it moves half its speed in a random direction and takes no action on that turn. This effect ends on a target if it succeeds on three saving throws against it.

It is the equivalent of a 3rd level spell, but that seems quite a bit overtuned compared to something like the fear spell. Choose targets vs in a cone. longer range, and save even after initial success. But this spell also takes away their action. Your's would just be blinding a creature. Third level might be appropriate for your idea, maybe 4th.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

What it says on the tin.

I am not talking about the up casted level 2 spell. I am talking a bona fide 6 or 7 level blindness spell.

I was thinking maybe it affects your spellcasting modifier of targets for 1 minute, and every time in your turn they have to reroll a saving throw or be blinded again? Some sort of persistent blindness?

Morbo's Horrible Blindness
6th level Necromancy

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 ft
Components: V
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute


You attempt to permanently blind one or more creatures that you can see within range. Choose a number of creatures equal to your Spellcasting ability modifier that you can see.

If a target has eyes, the creature must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it is blinded as its eyes begins to haze over. On a successful save, or if the creature doesn't have eyes, the creature isn’t affected.

A creature blinded by this spell must make another Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. If it successfully saves against this spell three times, the spell ends. If it fails its saves three times, it subjected to the condition for the rest of the duration without gaining anymore saving throws. The successes and failures don’t need to be consecutive; keep track of both until the target collects three of a kind.

If you maintain your concentration on this spell for the entire possible duration, the creature is blinded until the effect is removed.

++++

Based on Flesh to Stone. Gave it more targets as blind isn't as bad as restrained/petrified.

[HiveStriker]

The point of my idea is to scale up the persistence. One save might save you for a round, but you still have to make the save the next round or you are reblinded. So something like:

Greater Blindness
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 ft
Components: V
Duration: 1 minute
Classes: Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer, Wizard
You can blind a foe. Choose one creature that you can see within range to make a Constitution saving throw. If it fails, the target is blinded until the end of their next turn. For the duration of the spell, at the end of each of its turns, the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failure, they are blinded until the end of their next turn.
I like the idea, but I find stange that you may get "in and out" of the effect...

Why not then make it a 4th level spell that reverses the logic? Fluff it as some kind of small flashing sphere following him, then make the mechanics being...
- Duration: 1 round
- Effect: on a failed Constitution save, creature is blinded for the duration. On a save, it's blinded until the end of its next turn.
- Scaling: when you cast this spell using a 5th level slot or higher, add one round per spell level to the duration OR target one additional creature.

The "minimal effect" seems fair to me considering it's already a 4th level slot, and the linear scaling makes it decent as a 5th or 6th level spell if you think your chances of success are good.

[Segev]

This isn't exactly what was ordered, but is something that came to me.

Veiled Darkness
Level 7 Illusion
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S, M (a bit of black sheep's wool)
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes
A 30-foot cube of magical darkness obscures a region within range. Darkvision is as blinded as normal vision to things in this space. However, most observers will not be aware of this obscurement, as you may fill it with an illusion that appears visible to all who look into the area. This illusion includes images, sounds, olfactory, and (non-damaging) thermal properties, and just enough tactile presence that it is not automatically given away by touch. The illusion may be of any objects, structures, creatures, phenomena, or terrain you desire. Physical interaction that results in impossibilities (like walking through an object, or running into something the illusion doesn't show them) results in a reflexive Investigation check.

As your action on your turn, you may cause the illusion and its accompanying darkness to move up to 30 feet. It myst remain within range. You may adapt the illusion as it moves so that its motion seems natural.

Those who make an Investigation check against your spell DC, either reflexively as indicated above or as their action, have the illusion broken; they perceive the magical darkness that truly obscures everything within.

Light created by a spell of 8th level or higher reveals anything obscured by the darkness where it falls, though it does not dispel the illusion.