Segev
2020-03-30, 03:53 PM
Shape water and mold earth get a lot of laud. Control flames has some nice synergy with druidcraft and prestidigitation in that those two can start fires and control flames can manipulate and spread them. Control flames also has twice the range of druidcraft and six time sthe range of prestidigitation, so spreading fire can happen further than starting it. Control flames is also somatic-only, so you can do it silently, unlike the igniting spells.
Gust, on the other hand, is not very good. I am disappointed by it each time I read it, and somewhat baffled by the arbitrarily variable force it exerts on creatures vs. objects. A creature of any size must succeed on a Strength check or be pushed 5 feet; an object can't weigh more than 5 pounds or it doesn't move (though 5 lbs. or less and it moves 10 feet). And this is only away from you; you're blowing outwards; you can't move it in arbitrary directions the way you can the water from shape water.
You even, potentially, are over-replicating things if you have gust and druidcraft. This is one of the points I'd like to discuss: is there anything the sensory effect line in gust can do that druidcraft's sensory effect line can't? The examples in gust are almost all duplicated in druidcraft; only the "ripple clothing" and "slam shutters shut" one is unique (and the second is a variation from thaumaturgy). Clearly the druidcraft one is supposed to be related to nature (animals, plants, smells) while the gust one is related to air motion. Can't even snuff out a candle with it, though, unless that's a "harmless sensory effect."
Gust, mold earth, and shape water all share druidcraft and minor image's 30 ft. range. Control flames is a whopping 60 ft., which may or may not be interesting (like I said, it does make the "spread flames" thing more useful even when one knows prestidigitation or druidcraft).
I'd be interested in hearing ideas for how to use the harmless sensory effects of gust.
The synergy that made me want to start this thread is actually mold earth with gust. The one thing gust does that's of interest without serious creativity and potential DM leniency is shove creatures 5 ft. There are, admittedly, better ways to do this, but few are just one cantrip. (Eldrich blast can get the Repelling Blast Invocation, for instance.)
With mold earth, you can excavate a pit, and then use gust to shove people into them. But even as I feel a bit clever for thinking of this reasonably obvious combination, the fact that it's 5 ft. for gust and takes two rounds to set up points out some obvious problems. Add in that, again, it's only away from you, and you can't even set it up from any angle.
"Spreading" fire with control flames is an interesting term, too. If there's something between where it is and where you spread it to, it won't deal damage unless they stand in it (and then it's just whatever environmental damage standing in normal fire does). If gust could affect multile light-weight objects, it might be useful for scattering some kindling, but sadly it's actively worse than mage hand just picking up and placing individual logs for this purpose.
More pit-trap shenanigans: You can excavate the pit with mold earth, then shape and harden to ice some spikes at the bottom of it with shape water. And, I suppose, shove someone in with gust, if they deign to stand between you and the pit and are standing next to it.
Shoving them over or into difficult terrain can at least be a way to limit their movement options.
Comboing mold earth with itself: a pit with walls that are difficult terrain makes climbing even slower.
Using the color-changing effects of control flames and shape water together with the animated simple shapes ability of shape water, you could potentially make an area look like it's covered in fire when only some of it is really fire and other parts are just dancing water. Get the water to catch the light of the flames, which are colored so they match the color reflecting out of the water.
Using mold earth to make colors and shapes that appear to be reasonably-convincing "tunnel entrances" where there are none, and then using minor illusion to cover an actual hall or corridor with a near-identical "false entrance" could be amusing. You can only manage three of these (two mold earth, one minor illusion), though. Four, if you color and freeze an ice sculpture over one more section of wall with shape water.
Hmh. I started this because I thought I had more ideas, but they either fled me before I got to them or they turn out not really to work. The "big" one is shoving people into pits with gust, and that seems pretty lackluster. It's like having the worst parts of mage hand and druidcraft; is shoving somebody 5 feet, specifically away from you, powerful enough to warrant the cantrip on its own? Nothing else it does is unique enough to be thought of.
Gust, on the other hand, is not very good. I am disappointed by it each time I read it, and somewhat baffled by the arbitrarily variable force it exerts on creatures vs. objects. A creature of any size must succeed on a Strength check or be pushed 5 feet; an object can't weigh more than 5 pounds or it doesn't move (though 5 lbs. or less and it moves 10 feet). And this is only away from you; you're blowing outwards; you can't move it in arbitrary directions the way you can the water from shape water.
You even, potentially, are over-replicating things if you have gust and druidcraft. This is one of the points I'd like to discuss: is there anything the sensory effect line in gust can do that druidcraft's sensory effect line can't? The examples in gust are almost all duplicated in druidcraft; only the "ripple clothing" and "slam shutters shut" one is unique (and the second is a variation from thaumaturgy). Clearly the druidcraft one is supposed to be related to nature (animals, plants, smells) while the gust one is related to air motion. Can't even snuff out a candle with it, though, unless that's a "harmless sensory effect."
Gust, mold earth, and shape water all share druidcraft and minor image's 30 ft. range. Control flames is a whopping 60 ft., which may or may not be interesting (like I said, it does make the "spread flames" thing more useful even when one knows prestidigitation or druidcraft).
I'd be interested in hearing ideas for how to use the harmless sensory effects of gust.
The synergy that made me want to start this thread is actually mold earth with gust. The one thing gust does that's of interest without serious creativity and potential DM leniency is shove creatures 5 ft. There are, admittedly, better ways to do this, but few are just one cantrip. (Eldrich blast can get the Repelling Blast Invocation, for instance.)
With mold earth, you can excavate a pit, and then use gust to shove people into them. But even as I feel a bit clever for thinking of this reasonably obvious combination, the fact that it's 5 ft. for gust and takes two rounds to set up points out some obvious problems. Add in that, again, it's only away from you, and you can't even set it up from any angle.
"Spreading" fire with control flames is an interesting term, too. If there's something between where it is and where you spread it to, it won't deal damage unless they stand in it (and then it's just whatever environmental damage standing in normal fire does). If gust could affect multile light-weight objects, it might be useful for scattering some kindling, but sadly it's actively worse than mage hand just picking up and placing individual logs for this purpose.
More pit-trap shenanigans: You can excavate the pit with mold earth, then shape and harden to ice some spikes at the bottom of it with shape water. And, I suppose, shove someone in with gust, if they deign to stand between you and the pit and are standing next to it.
Shoving them over or into difficult terrain can at least be a way to limit their movement options.
Comboing mold earth with itself: a pit with walls that are difficult terrain makes climbing even slower.
Using the color-changing effects of control flames and shape water together with the animated simple shapes ability of shape water, you could potentially make an area look like it's covered in fire when only some of it is really fire and other parts are just dancing water. Get the water to catch the light of the flames, which are colored so they match the color reflecting out of the water.
Using mold earth to make colors and shapes that appear to be reasonably-convincing "tunnel entrances" where there are none, and then using minor illusion to cover an actual hall or corridor with a near-identical "false entrance" could be amusing. You can only manage three of these (two mold earth, one minor illusion), though. Four, if you color and freeze an ice sculpture over one more section of wall with shape water.
Hmh. I started this because I thought I had more ideas, but they either fled me before I got to them or they turn out not really to work. The "big" one is shoving people into pits with gust, and that seems pretty lackluster. It's like having the worst parts of mage hand and druidcraft; is shoving somebody 5 feet, specifically away from you, powerful enough to warrant the cantrip on its own? Nothing else it does is unique enough to be thought of.