Rebalancing Martials - Let's Wuxia it up

[Cikomyr2]

A common reply I've heard in my "Rebalancing Spellcaster" was that instead of nerfing casters, we should find a way to boost Martials.

I mean, why not. Do you guys have anything better to do this month? I didn't think so.

So, I have one big, big inspiration for my idea: the Dragon Prince.

In the Dragon Prince, you see a clear physical difference between martial and casters.

Light armor wearers (Rayla, Corvus) can literally jump around like real Wuxia fighters. They have extremely high mobility that you could compare to the DnD monks who abuse their Chi reserve like they will short rest.

Heavy armor wearers (Amaya, Sorin, Janai) can't jump around as much, but it doesn't mean they don't have some really impressive mobility for someone wearing 50 pounds of metal (with another 20 pounds at least for Amaya's shield). Where Rayla can literally jump over Amaya, Amaya is able to do 5-feet dodges to avoid blows and is quick on her feat. She has reduced mobility, but it doesn't mean her mobility is negated

Finally, you have the Casters (Callum, Claudia, Viren) who don't seem to be able to move for ****.

I was thinking, then, how it implement Wuxia in DnD? Well.. There's already the Monk Class that has Chi. So I will steal the Chi from the Monk's class feature, and pretend that class doesn't exist until I finalized the new rules for the Martials. After this we can revisit the Monk as a true Chi Master who fights unarmed and unarmored

So. Rule proposal 1: all non-full Caster class (fighter, barbarians, paladins, rangers, rogues) get a number of Chi points equal to their martial class level. This stacks between multiple martial classes. A Wizard 6/Fighter 2 gets 2 Chi points.

Now, what do we do with these chi points? Flurry of blow is, in my opinion, a monk thing, and I want to avoid going for "damage effect".

Instead, let's go with offered mobility as a starting point. What if a character could use a reaction + 1 Chi point to do a dodging move. Light armor wearers can move up to 15 feet. Medium can move 10 feet, heavy armor can move 5 feet. This move doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity as its literally a defensive dodge.

When can you trigger it? Anytime you want to avoid damage by being somewhere else.

A wizard cast a fireball? The Rogues and Ranger can suddenly jump out of the AoE, while the tin men are too heavy to do so.

Eldritch Blast come your way? Oh, maybe you can jump behind cover to give yourself some AC.

What's potentially cool is during a melee, heavy fighters can therefore jump out of their opponent's melee range to avoid a hit. Suddenly, reach weapons become really cool, as a heavy fighter is unable to dodge out of your range.

Off course, in the event your opponent has more attacks and more feet of movements, he can close and attack again. But maybe you got out of range of the mook who was doing the Help Action? Reactive tactical movement suddenly becomes important.

Since the Chi-move is a reaction, it still leaves you stuck in melee if your enemies decide to close the gap.

Finally, I would allow for jumps being part of the Chi-moves, but with Dexterity used at the main stat instead of strength. Why? Well, first of all it allows nimble fighters to dodge in cool ways and plays into the "heavy armors arent meant to do backflip", and it gives Dex-based character the ability to at least be good at jumping *some* times.

Now, this idea is *one* potential use of the Chi-move that I think could be cool, and it's the one I invested the most of thought into. If people find the idea of Wuxying up the Martial Classes as fun as I do, maybe we can find other cool manoeuvres that consume Chi and give a wider range of gameplay options to martial classes. Maybe Chi-Shields techniques. Or Chi-Stealth. The world is our Oyster.

[Segev]

The big problem with the reaction-move is that it makes any single-attack creature useless against the fighter-types. Yes, you can get them with mobs, and no, NPCs don't have to be built with PC stats, but a certain amount of symmetry is expected. If Reyla can leap 15 feet out of reach of the goblin's attack, why can't the goblin do likewise? Also a mobility fighter, and nimble as heck, little monsters would be expected to have similar mobility. But now, these CR 1/2 or 1/4 monsters are untouchable by level 4 or lower fighter-types, and rogues have no hope without ranged weapons.

Pack tactics will help, but then you need two characters to hit one target, as one character wastes his action entirely.

Now, you've limited this a bit, with ki. That does help significantly. They can do this only up to their class level times per short rest. Or, maybe, that's one of the things that sets apart the monk: monks are the only ones who regain ki with short rests. Everyone else needs a long rest. You can even make this a bit dip-protected by making the monk feature be that they regain their monk level in ki on a short rest. Since everyone who gets ki - monks included - has ki equal to their level, a full-class monk won't notice the difference between regaining his monk level in ki on a short rest or regaining all of his ki on a short rest. A multiclass character who is mixing, say, rogue and monk, however, will only get his monk levels back in ki on a short rest, leaving him with less ki throughout the day. A single level dip would mean 1 ki point per short rest, no matter what level you were overall.



But let's consider an alternative to ki for this. Hit dice. There are hints throughout that Hit Dice are a resource that was intended, at one point, to be used more liberally. I actually suspect that things like the Battle Master Fighter originally used their Hit Dice, not the class-granted Superiority Dice, but that it was harder to balance at each level than just giving a fixed amount.

As a reaction when an attacker overcomes your AC or you fail a Dexterity saving throw, you can move up to 15 feet if you are lightly armored or wearing no armor. If you're wearing medium armor, this is reduced to 10 feet. Heavy armor, 5 feet. Spend a Hit Die, rolling it and adding your Dexterity modifier. If this, added to your AC or your failed Dexterity save, makes the attack miss or your save a success, you treat the attack as having missed or the save as having been made, provided the movement takes you out of the reach, range, or area of effect of the threat that provoked this reaction. You move either way; you may just not have moved fast enough.

[stoutstien]

As far as jumping, martial PCs can already do most of this using the base rules. Even at 16 str you can jump over most medium creatures with a 10 ft charge.

[TigerT20]

This is definitely very interesting, and I like the idea.

As well, this is a bit high-power, superhero-style stuff and in some campaigns may be out of place. Then again, unless you use the variant rules or a house rule on rests/healing, everyone has Wolverine regeneration anyway

[Cikomyr2]

Ah, you are about a few things:

1- PC class only. So NPC with character levels would get it, but not goblins or guards. But the Fighter Guard Captain? Yes.

2- I love your Monk idea. We could also just give the monk double chi points per level.

Not sure about hit dices. I mean, I get where you are coming from, but I think I prefer flat chi point and special defensive and mobility measures.

And yes, I agree that for the first attacks in a round, Rayla do get away free. But she spends resources to avoid getting hit. I think it makes for a cool cinematic about who can get the other guys wounded first. Also makes "first blood" fight interesting.

[Boci]

The big problem with the reaction-move is that it makes any single-attack creature useless against the fighter-types. Yes, you can get them with mobs, and no, NPCs don't have to be built with PC stats, but a certain amount of symmetry is expected. If Reyla can leap 15 feet out of reach of the goblin's attack, why can't the goblin do likewise? Also a mobility fighter, and nimble as heck, little monsters would be expected to have similar mobility.

Just make them class features, or bonus feats players get at level 1. That solves the problem because goblins don't get any fighter features. No fighting style, no second find, no action surge, no rerolling will saves. Nor many other features. They don't get sneak attack, which would fit well with their fluff and default fighting style.

[Cikomyr2]

As far as jumping, martial PCs can already do most of this using the base rules. Even at 16 str you can jump over most medium creatures with a 10 ft charge.

I missed this point while writing my other post, sorry.

You are right, but.. I mean, what about the high dex rogue with 8 str who can't jump for ****?

Adding the "chi-based movement" to allow Dex characters to jump well at a cost is, in my opinion, a cool workaround the idea that rogues are less vertically mobile than the 18-str fighter in full plate.

[Segev]

I missed this point while writing my other post, sorry.

You are right, but.. I mean, what about the high dex rogue with 8 str who can't jump for ****?

Adding the "chi-based movement" to allow Dex characters to jump well at a cost is, in my opinion, a cool workaround the idea that rogues are less vertically mobile than the 18-str fighter in full plate.

Let's not forget the mammoth that can jump 24 feet on a long jump.

It's not even something you can put a Size-penalty on. There's just this weird space where Large creatures jump absurd distances relative to their sizes based on commonly-high Strength scores. By the time they get Huge or Gargantuan, the high strength scores let them jump pretty far...but they're also so big that it doesn't look like much compared to their own size.

I'm not even going to complain that Small and Tiny creatures with typically-low Strength scores jump so little distance. A 6-inch-tall Sprite jumping 1 foot is equivalent to a 6-foot-tall Human jumping 12 feet, which isn't unreasonable for an "average" person.

Now, square-cube law actually suggests that smaller critters should have more (relative to their size) spectacular jump distances. But we rarely see that kind of thing represented in fiction.

[TigerT20]

Let's not forget the mammoth that can jump 24 feet on a long jump.

It's not even something you can put a Size-penalty on. There's just this weird space where Large creatures jump absurd distances relative to their sizes based on commonly-high Strength scores. By the time they get Huge or Gargantuan, the high strength scores let them jump pretty far...but they're also so big that it doesn't look like much compared to their own size.

I'm not even going to complain that Small and Tiny creatures with typically-low Strength scores jump so little distance. A 6-inch-tall Sprite jumping 1 foot is equivalent to a 6-foot-tall Human jumping 12 feet, which isn't unreasonable for an "average" person.

Now, square-cube law actually suggests that smaller critters should have more (relative to their size) spectacular jump distances. But we rarely see that kind of thing represented in fiction.

You could say that small and tiny creatures get +2 and +5 bonuses respectively (matching the bonuses for cover)
Logically you would use penalties for bigger creatures. But as you said, compared to their size they often can't jump that far. Then again - the bigger creatures in our world can't jump at all or avoid doing so. When did you last see an elephant or giraffe jump?

I would probably give a trait to some creatures that says they can't jump, and maybe one for giants that says they ignore the jumping penalties ( if you use them) because that's a classic image.

But this is all getting off-topic

[Yakk]

Combat Expertise: Classes that gain the Extra Attack feature at 5, plus Rogues, gain 1 Combat Expertise point per class level.

By spending a reaction and 1 combat expertise, you can reduce the damage you take from a source by your Combat Expertise total while wearing heavy armor, or half that if wearing Medium armor. If you are using a shield, add your shield bonus to the amount you reduce. When you do so, you can move 5'; this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.

By spending a reaction and any amount of combat expertise, you can add to your AC or a Dex saving throw by the number of points expended while wearing light armor, or by half the points expended if wearing Medium armor. If you are using a shield, add 1/2 of your shield bonus to the AC or Dex bonus. When you do so, you can move a number of feet equal to the AC or Dex save bonus plus 5'; this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.

You regain any spent Combat Expertise at the end of a short or long rest.

There we go. Heavy wearers get to soak, light wearers get to dodge, and medium get to do both less efficiently.

Heavy scales with points times max, while light scales with points times damage of incoming threat. As incoming threat mostly scales with level, this should scale similarly.

The reaction cost is an issue, as it overlaps with other features that burn your reaction (sometimes defensively).

But a level 20 character in heavy armor with a +3 shield can negate 25 damage for a point, then 24, then 23, then 22 etc. Each time moving 5'.

The medium can soak 15, then 14, 14, 13, 13, 12, 12, etc.

The light armor character can simply make a fireball save, or make a TRex bite miss, as can the medium armor character.

The light armor character can dash away with the enemy missing, forcing the enemy to run to keep up. This can negate some multi-attack situations against a foe with the same or lower speed. But doing so will continue to cost more and more CE.

[MrStabby]

One mechanic I came up with trying to solve this problem was to use the hit dice as a resource. The more "warriorish" you are the bigger your die. It also ties in your ability to expend this resource to your ability to recover HP later.

If you were to Epic Up things you might also need to add more of this resource.

Things you could do included stuff like rolling a die and adding it to a save after seeing a roll.

I think that the has to absolutely be more things that can be done than damage and defense though. If we are dealing with high level play effects at the kind of level where PCs can create personal demiplanes and teleport accross continents I dont see anything wrong with a strongman pile driving an opponent so far into the ground they are blind and immobilized till they dig themselves out. We need abilities as awesome as bringing the dead back to life, causing earthquakes bringing meteors down from orbit.

[Cikomyr2]

One mechanic I came up with trying to solve this problem was to use the hit dice as a resource. The more "warriorish" you are the bigger your die. It also ties in your ability to expend this resource to your ability to recover HP later.

If you were to Epic Up things you might also need to add more of this resource.

Things you could do included stuff like rolling a die and adding it to a save after seeing a roll.

I think that the has to absolutely be more things that can be done than damage and defense though. If we are dealing with high level play effects at the kind of level where PCs can create personal demiplanes and teleport accross continents I dont see anything wrong with a strongman pile driving an opponent so far into the ground they are blind and immobilized till they dig themselves out. We need abilities as awesome as bringing the dead back to life, causing earthquakes bringing meteors down from orbit.

"During a short rest, a martial user can roll any number of their hit die to recover Chi points. These are coming from the same pool as hit point recovery. Monk automatically recover all chi points"

[Vogie]

Instead of forcing the Ki system onto martial frames, why not use the existing frameworks and dis-aggregate them?

For example, every fighter has:

Action Surge, up to 2, refreshes each rest
Second Wind, refreshes each rest
Indomitable, up to 3, refreshes each Long Rest, starting at 9.
Dump them all together, and now you've got 3 short rest "slots" and 3 LR "slots" spread over levels 2-17. If you expand on that slot system to include the UA: Class Variant Superior Technique mechanic as a baseline on all fighters, then that's another short rest resource to add to the table.

Then, you can build things like "sliding out of the way", "intercepting a ranged attack", "casting Jump on yourself", and other Wuxia themed maneuvers to add to fighters as a whole.

[stoutstien]

I really don't think a new or additional subsystem is needed past DMs just allowing PCs to do the cool thing and setting sane DCs for ablity checks.

[Dr. Cliché]

Instead of forcing the Ki system onto martial frames, why not use the existing frameworks and dis-aggregate them?

For example, every fighter has:

Action Surge, up to 2, refreshes each rest
Second Wind, refreshes each rest
Indomitable, up to 3, refreshes each Long Rest, starting at 9.
Dump them all together, and now you've got 3 short rest "slots" and 3 LR "slots" spread over levels 2-17. If you expand on that slot system to include the UA: Class Variant Superior Technique mechanic as a baseline on all fighters, then that's another short rest resource to add to the table.

Then, you can build things like "sliding out of the way", "intercepting a ranged attack", "casting Jump on yourself", and other Wuxia themed maneuvers to add to fighters as a whole.

The problem with this is that you're making all these abilities compete for the same slots, even though they're not remotely equal. No one is going to spend their Short Rest Slots on Second Wind when they could instead use those same slots for Action Surge.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I love me some Tome of Battle but you really don't need to go that far to fix martials up.

Some simple fixes that I've seen work rather well...

Martials, characters who have mostly martial levels, can use their bonus actions to perform special combat actions such as climbing into creatures, grapples, shoves, overrunning, tumbling, disarming, sundering and other stuff.

But combat isn't the problem with martials, it's their options outside of direct damage. Rogues do well with this and Barbarians do ok... Fighters are downright terrible as a base class (which is why I made fighters into a Spell-less Bard) when it comes to havi g things to do other than"I attack".

[False God]

Yes I have played 4E.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Yes I have played 4E.

And it was glorious.

(I have issues with 4e, but it was a huge step in the right direction in some ways and a step back in others).

[Cikomyr2]

Yes I have played 4E.

Do you mind explaining a bit? I haven't.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Do you mind explaining a bit? I haven't.

4e gives a lot of cool combat moves that can be considered wuxia with some fluff change.

[False God]

And it was glorious.

(I have issues with 4e, but it was a huge step in the right direction in some ways and a step back in others).


4e gives a lot of cool combat moves that can be considered wuxia with some fluff change.


Do you mind explaining a bit? I haven't.

In short, 4E gave martials a lot of cool things to do under the rather broad name of "powers"(sometimes called maneuvers or other things). Though not explicitly Wuxia, it was basically Western-styled Wuxia. It's where a lot of the 5E Battlemaster maneuvers come from, though they are very basic versions of some of the rather fun and creative things 4E martial maneuvers allowed you to do.

It also stripped out the "fluff language" from the powers/maneuvers/spells, making it feel a little more gamey, but also let you put your own fluff on the power as you desired.

I'd recommend if it you like the 5E Battlemaster and want to Wuxia-up a bit without having to buy an explicitly Wuxia RPG. Also you can get the books cheap now!

[Cikomyr2]

In short, 4E gave martials a lot of cool things to do under the rather broad name of "powers"(sometimes called maneuvers or other things). Though not explicitly Wuxia, it was basically Western-styled Wuxia. It's where a lot of the 5E Battlemaster maneuvers come from, though they are very basic versions of some of the rather fun and creative things 4E martial maneuvers allowed you to do.

It also stripped out the "fluff language" from the powers/maneuvers/spells, making it feel a little more gamey, but also let you put your own fluff on the power as you desired.

I'd recommend if it you like the 5E Battlemaster and want to Wuxia-up a bit without having to buy an explicitly Wuxia RPG. Also you can get the books cheap now!

No need. Just because I love tweaking 5e doesn't mean I don't love it. Just because you love tweaking your car doesn't mean you want to replace it for another.

So, what sort of powers? The only power I suggested with any sort of detail is Chi Mobility, which is instant-moves as a reaction. I think to avoid upsetting balance, giving all martial class attack-boosting chi powers might not be the best, I'd rather go into more utilitarian use of reaction or bonus actions.

So what other powers beside "bonus to attack/damage" there were in 4e?

[JackPhoenix]

No need. Just because I love tweaking 5e doesn't mean I don't love it. Just because you love tweaking your car doesn't mean you want to replace it for another.

So, what sort of powers? The only power I suggested with any sort of detail is Chi Mobility, which is instant-moves as a reaction. I think to avoid upsetting balance, giving all martial class attack-boosting chi powers might not be the best, I'd rather go into more utilitarian use of reaction or bonus actions.

So what other powers beside "bonus to attack/damage" there were in 4e?

Power to have beholder bite itself if you run around it. Or a wizard to smack himself with a staff, or something. Or a boar to gore itself. Or, my favorite, a spiretop drake (small, pseudodragon-like thing) to steal stuff from itself. No, it doesn't matter if they would want to make OA against you if you've moved in their vicinity or if it makes any sense, they have to anyway.

[Cikomyr2]

Power to have beholder bite itself if you run around it. Or a wizard to smack himself with a staff, or something. Or a boar to gore itself. Or, my favorite, a spiretop drake (small, pseudodragon-like thing) to steal stuff from itself. No, it doesn't matter if they would want to make OA against you if you've moved in their vicinity or if it makes any sense, they have to anyway.

Hehehe.. Nice to read

Hmm.. What do you think of fighting style giving Chi abilities? Duellist , shield fighter, etc..

[CheddarChampion]

How about letting martials give up an attack to perform something like a battlemaster maneuver?
Use the save DC of the normal BM maneuvers.

Disarm: Str save vs save DC to resist.
Goading: Insight check vs save DC to resist. Maybe make the save DC based on Cha not Str/Dex?
Menacing: Wisdom save vs Intimidation check?
Bull Rush: Athletics vs Athletics if the target wants to stop you, Athletics vs Acrobatics if the target wants to avoid you.
Leap over: Athletics check with a DC based on the size of the target?
Fancy footwork: use the better of your AC or acrobatics check against one opportunity attack.
Wrestle: Athletics vs Athletics/Acrobatics to restrain your target, requires you to already have your target grappled, requires two hands. (If the target breaks free of the grapple they are no longer restrained but forced movement drags your target along with you.)
Etc.

Again, using one of these would require you to give up one of your attacks for the turn and they would not deal damage directly.

IDK about this reaction to move/reduce damage stuff. AC is supposed to be you dodging out of the way and/or your armor absorbing a hit already.

[Morty]

Sacrificing damage for non-damaging effects is going to be very tricky in D&D. It dances on the razor's edge of being too good or just not worth it. If you're not dealing damage, you're not participating in bringing the enemy to 0 HP (or however much it takes before they surrender or run away), which is typically the actual victory condition.

[False God]

No need. Just because I love tweaking 5e doesn't mean I don't love it. Just because you love tweaking your car doesn't mean you want to replace it for another.
I never suggested you drop 5E. I play multiple editions of D&D along side each other, they all give me something the others don't. Just because you have a street car doesn't mean it's the car for offroading and it certainly doesn't make it a boat.


So, what sort of powers? The only power I suggested with any sort of detail is Chi Mobility, which is instant-moves as a reaction. I think to avoid upsetting balance, giving all martial class attack-boosting chi powers might not be the best, I'd rather go into more utilitarian use of reaction or bonus actions.

So what other powers beside "bonus to attack/damage" there were in 4e?
Woof, it's kinda a big list, there were powers that let you move around and more your enemy around, ones that moved your allies around, ones to slowed movement, ones that punished movement and most of them didn't grant any attack/damage bonuses, they just had special effects.

I mean, again, the Battlemaster offers the most basic idea, except there was no resource to spend, and no attack/damage bonuses to achieve their effects. Some of the more powerful effects were limited under the AEDU system but it was simple X/day sort of limitations.

[Cikomyr2]

Ok. Wuxia abilities should be gained through martial feats.

Not GwF or Sharpshooters. These are already powerful enough. In fact, I could even make their use Chi-based.

But other physical related feat could have Chi use. Kind of a personalization of characters and rebalancing of the feat system.

I'll draw a list tomorrow and see what we can't do.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Ok. Wuxia abilities should be gained through martial feats.

Not GwF or Sharpshooters. These are already powerful enough. In fact, I could even make their use Chi-based.

But other physical related feat could have Chi use. Kind of a personalization of characters and rebalancing of the feat system.

I'll draw a list tomorrow and see what we can't do.

Feats are a bandaid and won't be balanced properly.

The core of the classes need to be changed.

[Dienekes]

Well I don't know much about Wuxia, but from what I understand it's just sped up fighting where everyone makes a bunch of pointless flips. And I know a fair bit about fighting. So let's see if I can get a list of things that I've always thought 5e should let martials do as standard procedure. And you can maybe embellish them up to the level you want your Wuxia guys to have.

These are pretty much in addition to everything a Battlemaster can do, unless I fiddled with something to make it more accurately reflect reality.


Parry: Reaction to make a melee attack roll opposed by your opponent's melee attack roll, if your attack roll is higher the attack is negated.

Beat: Knock an opponent's weapon aside this could in theory be modeled two different ways: 1) makes the opponent unable to make Opportunity Attacks, or 2) prevents them from making any further attacks on their turn.

Warding: Requires a big weapon, but constant swinging about makes it so that anyone that enters within your reach either automatically gets hit, or must make a Dexterity Saving Throw for half damage or something.

Counter-attack: Reaction, to roll damage of a melee attack. If your damage surpasses the opponent's melee damage their attack is negated and you deal all excess damage to your opponent. If you deal less damage, the enemy's attack automatically hits.

Feint: Bonus Action, make a melee attack roll opposed by your opponent's Will Saving Throw, if successful you gain Advantage on your next melee attack. Opponent gains Advantage on Will Saving Throws against Feints for the remainder of the encounter.

Set Spears: When using a polearm you can make Opportunity Attacks against opponent's that enter your Reach. If the attack is successful the opponent must make a Strength Saving Throw DC 8+Proficiency+Str or have their Speed reduced to 0 and get pushed back 5 feet.

Hook: Must use a weapon with a hook (axes, halberds, longswords when held in murderstroke grip), gain Advantage on Trip attempts, or have some action to attempt to pull a Shield away from the opponent so they cannot gain the Shield bonus or use abilities that require the use of a Shield until the start of their next turn.

Precise Strike: Must be done with piercing weapons. Disadvantage on the attack roll in order to ignore Resistance to damage.

Pommel Strike: You can attack with the pommel of your weapon. This attack deals 1d4+Str bludgeoning damage. When used as a basic attack you have Disadvantage on the attack roll. However, it can be used without Disadvantage when Grappled.

Quick Bash: After missing with a melee attack, you can take a Bonus Action to make a either a Shoulder Bash, Shield Bash or Pommel Strike. The Pommel Strike does not suffer Disadvantage, and can apply Disorienting Bash (see below) at no additional Chi cost (or half, or whatever is balanced). Choosing a Shoulder Bash deals Unarmed Damage and the target must make a Strength Saving Throw or be knocked back 10 feet. Choosing Shield Bash can apply either Disorienting Bash or the 10 feet knock back for free, or both for an additional cost.

Disorienting Bash: When attacking with a bludgeoning weapon, your target must make a Constitution Saving Throw or become Dazed, a new condition that's like a lesser Stunned.

Hidden Weapon: Bonus Action to hide your weapon behind your Shield, so your opponent cannot tell which angle you're going to attack from. Perhaps prevents them from taking Reactions against the attack?

Shield Me From the Explosion!: Just gonna level with you, having something big to hold out in front of you should give you a bonus against most area effects. So just give Shield bonus to Dexterity Saving Throws, maybe some specific spells can ignore it if it makes sense, but if you're worried about balance make Evasion not work when using a Shield or something.

Armor Block: Reaction to gain high Damage Reduction against an attack, the stronger the armor, the higher the DR.

Bleeding Attack: Successful attack with a cutting or piercing damage weapon makes the opponent make a Constitution Saving Throw or start taking damage per turn until they get healed.

Blood in the Eyes: Cutting or Piercing damage attack that makes the opponent make a Constitution Saving Throw or be Blinded until they or an adjacent ally takes an Action to wipe the blood from them.

Brutal Finish: Kill a creature, get a free Intimidation check against an opponent to inflict Frightened for a round. It is unfortunate that in the base game in-combat skills against the opponent are kinda rare. Personally, I blame Expertise really gumming up the math on what would otherwise be a balanced check vs save system. If you don't want to mess with Ecpertise, perhaps make it a normal 8+prof+Cha check, but the ability is only available to those who are trained in Intimidation.

War Cry: Area effect Intimidation to cause Frightened condition for a round.

Agile Dodge: Reaction to make an Acrobatics check against an enemy attack. If successful the attack is negated and you can move 5 feet, this movement does not provoke Opportunity Attacks.

Restraining Grapple: Like Grapple, but Restrains.

Manipulate Opponent: Bonus Action to force an opponent to make a Will Saving Throw, if successful the opponent must move 5 feet in any direction of your choice, provided it won't hurt them.

Unhorse: When attacking a mounted opponent, they must make a Constitution Saving Throw or fall off their mount.

Lockstep: Reaction to move to follow an opponent that moves away from you.

Trample: During a Mount's movement that they attempt to Trample over one creature smaller than them. That creature must make a Strength Saving Throw or be knocked prone, and takes damage based on the mount's natural attack.

Set Lance: When using a polearm that deals piercing damage while mounted, if you attack directly after your mount has moved at least 10 feet in a straight line you may add 1d6+your Mount's strength to the damage.

Block Ally: Provide your Shield bonus to allies.

Throw Opponent: When grappling an opponent, you can throw them. Don't know the mechanics of it, but they end a ways away from you, prone, and damaged.

Hamstring Cut: Make a melee attack that deals piercing or cutting damage, if successful the opponent must make a Constitution Saving Throw or have their Speed reduced by half until they are healed.

And two that I think should be in the game but don't directly relate to actual fighting.

Improved Mage Slayer: Just try waving your hands around to cast spells when someone has a sword in your face. When you make a successful reaction melee attack caused by mage slayer, the target must make a Constitution Saving Throw or the spell has no effect, but is considered cast for the purposes of determining remaining spell slots. For balance's sake I'd suggest Reaction spells, spells that require a melee attack as part of the spell are exempt, and spells cast by Paladins, Rangers, Arcane Trickster, and Eldritch Knights and other melee oriented subclasses are exempt.

Monstrous Dismemberment: When facing a creature of Large size or greater you can attempt to target a significant distinct part of their body that is not usual to a humanoid (for example: a dragon's wings, one of the hydra's heads, a manticore's tail, or a beholder's eye-stalks). Make an attack roll with Disadvantage, if successful the attack deals damage directly to the creature and to the targeted location. If the targeted location takes damage equivalent to 1/4 of the creature's total hit points that location no longer functions. The dragon will no longer be able to fly, the hydra loses a head, the manticore can no longer use his tail stinger, and the beholder loses the chosen eye-stalk.

[Morphic tide]

The key things Martials are missing are area of effect damage, recovery abilities, mobility, and the general field of "Plot Magic" (hard resurrection, long-distance teleporting, scrying, planar travel, etc). The last is a blight on the game's construction that forcefully sinks Spells Known into dealing with a handful of events, so all I'll say about solving that is "get hireling mechanics to handle it if you don't feel like having plot-magic done by plot-objects". They could also serve to have more variety of properly viable single-target damage, battlefield control and personal durability.

Part of the underlying problem is that there's not enough hooks of access for Martial classes to get ahold of more than one or two options via subclass. Feats don't have enough power budget to cover such a broad output, with even the greatest example of Polearm Master + Sentinel ultimately only making you have single-target battlefield control, and reliant on enemies not having ranged attacks to just attack past you. Most of them just flat-out don't have any option list inside the class to choose the needed effects from. It seems that the enthusiasm for the subclass system left them with a complete blindspot for spellcasters still getting to choose their spells regardless of subclass. Something that I adore the Mystic having the balls to say no to.

Having Superiority Dice be the base feature, with varying functions by class and tying them to more abilities, would probably be the best starting point. The biggest thing is allowing higher level Maneuvers. Whether that be ones which require a certain threshold of raw dice count to determine their abilities, ones requiring a given level in a specific class, or having them get spell-like access outright with requirements to turn them properly into a Tome of Battle port. In particular, I'd very much add recovery mechanics and have some Maneuvers get refund conditions to make prolonged fights work out, such that the Rogue could be played exactly the way it is currently, restocking the full 10d6 each round if it's all spent under the same conditions as the current Sneak Attack.

The Barbarian's Rage could be turned into the center of the recovery mechanic, probably being per attack dished out during Rage for the base class and most subclasses having an alternate recovery separate from Rage to allow them to fight usefully once they're out of Rage. The Fighter's recovery could be based on Opportunity Attacks, with features to get more of them and broader use of them internally, so as to call out the Spiked Chain Trippers of old that separated Fighters from Barbarian Ubercharging.

With the healing, I'd have it limited by long rest by being Hit Die + Superiority Dice, with a proper healing-focused Rogue subclass that restores hit dice on Short Rests and maybe a Barbarian who shares theirs. Which also recover on a Short Rest, either due to subclass or as their baseline healing ability. With mobility, I'd have a variety of Charge effects that stack with Dash to hit once at 4x movement (which is still under 14 miles per hour for the standard 30 ft. move...), as well as effects to move and reduce damage from the provoking instance of damage. There are a number of different options for how to implement them, after all, between action and what's boosted. Area damage could focus on dealing damage to enemies as they're passed, as well as leveraging sheer attack volume efficiently.

For Monk, I'd turn them into a prototype for a half-Manifester. Simplified a bit from using a proper Psionics ruleset, but still essentially converting them to a half-caster with a weird list and batch-based access, with the attendant ease of resolving the versatility problems by having them be explicitly covered in blatantly-supernatural nonsense. Which they admittedly deserve a pass on to begin with by virtue of having full permission to be as Wuxia as imaginable because Wuxia is literally their class concept. Probably go ahead and give them a habit of "Ki" ability changing subclasses, like a Constitution-based tank who's all about stepping on the Fighter's new zone control toes.

In general, I'd try externalizing the feature damage to Maneuvers, making sure to have single-target damage unchanged or slightly improved, and then have way, way better Maneuvers that actually compete with spellcasting versatility in various ways. Narrower effects, lower raw output, but able to deal with full breadth of party functions. Part of this would also involve expanding Two Weapon Fighting and Attacks of Opportunity to have Extra Attacks matter for them, such that the Fighter has enough to throw around for genuine zone control, the Barbarian may decide RATATATATA with handaxes is the appropriate course to take in a Rage, Paladins may find their novas even more nonsensically boss-blending and Rangers may actually get some serious archery done.

Those base rule changes would be a very basic to factor on the relevant abilities, since it's a blunt 2x from those non-typical-action attacks on non-Fighters and 4x on them. In terms of just raw base rules, it actually just levels it out in raw damage, since the Light weapons cap at 1d6 and the biggest raw damage is the 2d6 Maul and Greatsword, with the bonus action attacks not getting ability score bonus to damage, so both end up 2d6+Strength per attack you can make. Balancing per-hit bonuses to make TWF viable against Maneuver bonuses is a question to ask, as is keep both directions from considerably pushing the ceiling over existing builds. Not so much care need taken with keeping Paladin novas from becoming even more spectacular in output condensation, since that's... Honestly entirely unrelated to how they're supposed to play.

[HiveStriker]

A common reply I've heard in my "Rebalancing Spellcaster" was that instead of nerfing casters, we should find a way to boost Martials.

I mean, why not. Do you guys have anything better to do this month? I didn't think so.

So, I have one big, big inspiration for my idea: the Dragon Prince.

In the Dragon Prince, you see a clear physical difference between martial and casters.

Light armor wearers (Rayla, Corvus) can literally jump around like real Wuxia fighters. They have extremely high mobility that you could compare to the DnD monks who abuse their Chi reserve like they will short rest.

Heavy armor wearers (Amaya, Sorin, Janai) can't jump around as much, but it doesn't mean they don't have some really impressive mobility for someone wearing 50 pounds of metal (with another 20 pounds at least for Amaya's shield). Where Rayla can literally jump over Amaya, Amaya is able to do 5-feet dodges to avoid blows and is quick on her feat. She has reduced mobility, but it doesn't mean her mobility is negated

Finally, you have the Casters (Callum, Claudia, Viren) who don't seem to be able to move for ****.

I was thinking, then, how it implement Wuxia in DnD? Well.. There's already the Monk Class that has Chi. So I will steal the Chi from the Monk's class feature, and pretend that class doesn't exist until I finalized the new rules for the Martials. After this we can revisit the Monk as a true Chi Master who fights unarmed and unarmored

So. Rule proposal 1: all non-full Caster class (fighter, barbarians, paladins, rangers, rogues) get a number of Chi points equal to their martial class level. This stacks between multiple martial classes. A Wizard 6/Fighter 2 gets 2 Chi points.

Now, what do we do with these chi points? Flurry of blow is, in my opinion, a monk thing, and I want to avoid going for "damage effect".

Instead, let's go with offered mobility as a starting point. What if a character could use a reaction + 1 Chi point to do a dodging move. Light armor wearers can move up to 15 feet. Medium can move 10 feet, heavy armor can move 5 feet. This move doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity as its literally a defensive dodge.

When can you trigger it? Anytime you want to avoid damage by being somewhere else.

A wizard cast a fireball? The Rogues and Ranger can suddenly jump out of the AoE, while the tin men are too heavy to do so.

Eldritch Blast come your way? Oh, maybe you can jump behind cover to give yourself some AC.

What's potentially cool is during a melee, heavy fighters can therefore jump out of their opponent's melee range to avoid a hit. Suddenly, reach weapons become really cool, as a heavy fighter is unable to dodge out of your range.

Off course, in the event your opponent has more attacks and more feet of movements, he can close and attack again. But maybe you got out of range of the mook who was doing the Help Action? Reactive tactical movement suddenly becomes important.

Since the Chi-move is a reaction, it still leaves you stuck in melee if your enemies decide to close the gap.

Finally, I would allow for jumps being part of the Chi-moves, but with Dexterity used at the main stat instead of strength. Why? Well, first of all it allows nimble fighters to dodge in cool ways and plays into the "heavy armors arent meant to do backflip", and it gives Dex-based character the ability to at least be good at jumping *some* times.

Now, this idea is *one* potential use of the Chi-move that I think could be cool, and it's the one I invested the most of thought into. If people find the idea of Wuxying up the Martial Classes as fun as I do, maybe we can find other cool manoeuvres that consume Chi and give a wider range of gameplay options to martial classes. Maybe Chi-Shields techniques. Or Chi-Stealth. The world is our Oyster.

I have a simpler idea in three (potentially four) steps.

1. Implement as many "actions" as you can, both the ones "optional" from DMG (Disarm, Taunt) and from Manoeuvers when possible.
- "Defend" -> reduce by proficiency*STR/DEX mod damage on every hit sustained.
- "Rally" -> provide THP to a friend equal to proficiency*CHA.
- "Sweep" -> damage to all targets within reach equal to proficiency*STR/DEX against a DEX save or plain weapon attack (didn't try that idea yet, not sure which is better).
- "Coordinate" ->Ready a melee weapon attack with another teammate: you act on his turn, your attack and his first both get advantage.
- "Rush" -> Dash and weapon attack.
--> Everyone can use them, period, except the Sweep and Rush which should be reserved to martials (not like it would be a big deal anyways for casters which have enough options for AOE or distant damage).

2. Implement as many bonus action as you can, similarly using class features as inspiration.
- "Feint": next weapon attack has advantage.
- "Aim": your next attack has advantage.
- "Lunge": your next attack gains increased reach of 5 feet.
- "Distabilizing attack": if your next weapon attack hit, creature will make its next weapon attack at disadvantage if it's taken before start of its next turn (basically put OA at disadvantage).
Etc...
Make Aim and any other "generic" ability available to everyone, keep all those you feel require a dedicated training to martials (it's not like casters would cry on not having it since most have many uses for their bonus action anyways).

3. Give to all martials the ability to use some of those abilities "as part of" a weapon attack a number of times equal to half proficiency + highest mod between STR and DEX every long rest.
But possibly don't allow every ability for every class if you want to keep a strong identity (for example, Charge would be a Barbarian exclusive, while Sweep would be not a Rogue thing). Not "required" and would require a decent amount of work and arbitrary choices if we want to be honest, but would probably be nice.

4. IF all that isn't enough, design one or two "class features" that build upon one or two tactics and enhance them exclusively to a class (ex Barbarian, level 6, "Bum Rush: when you take the Charge action, you can attempt to Shove prone before attacking)"
But I would stop at the third step honestly.
The fourth start really making edgy not to tip-toe on some martials's signature abilities (Bum Rush is technically something that a Monk can do already at mid-high level, enhancing Sweep would make it WhirldWind, enhancing Rally would slap Purple Knight in the face, etc).

The first three steps bring enough tactical variety for martials to fully use their action and bonus action while still requiring a significant commitment: the "benefit for action economy cost" is still "below enough" traditional class features to let each class feel safe in its niche.
And making the "as part of weapon attack but only every X per long rest" ensures that the Battlemaster archetype feels relevant, as long of course as parties take enough short rest (which we may only hope for ^^).


How about letting martials give up an attack to perform something like a battlemaster maneuver?
Use the save DC of the normal BM maneuvers.

Again, using one of these would require you to give up one of your attacks for the turn and they would not deal damage directly.

It's another good lead. Honestly I never understood why Shove/Grapple was an authorized swap for weapon attack on Attack action only (barring feats / class features). Seems to me kinda artificial.
The only potential problem I see with this is that it's easier to ensure that you don't "eat at" core class mechanics (Monk's extreme mobility, Battlemaster's manoeuvers). Maybe it's not actually a problem though. Would be worth pursuing definitely, I'd say it depends on what you actually define as "manoeuvers".

I suggested an "action/bonus action" based implementation though because of how often I saw similar ideas implemented as class features ("charge and attack" -> bonus action on some Totem Barbarian, Taunt -> Swashbuckler action IIRC, "Rally" -> Purple Knight bonus action etc).


Sacrificing damage for non-damaging effects is going to be very tricky in D&D. It dances on the razor's edge of being too good or just not worth it. If you're not dealing damage, you're not participating in bringing the enemy to 0 HP (or however much it takes before they surrender or run away), which is typically the actual victory condition.
I'm sorry but this is plain wrong. :)
That you don't deal damage directly in your turn does NOT mean you don't deal damage at all indirectly over the round.
When you shove a creature prone, you enhance the chance of hitting (and getting crits) from all your friends, thus increasing their overall damage output compared to if you just dealt damage. If you spent that as an action as a Rogue, and you have only one friend after you, it was probably a bad choice. If you spent that because you know just after you there are several allies with powerful attacks (Rogue, Paladin, Whispers Bard, guy with smite spell or Booming Blade) if was an excellent choice.

When you use your action to pour a healing potion into your Wizard so that he's back on feet in time for his turn and unleash a winning spell, you dealt 0 damage, but you made a decisive contribution towards victory.

When you step into the frontline Dodging while threatening with OAs so a small group of enemies are not tempted to strike at your half-dead pal a few dozen meters away and instead attempt to kill an apparently easier target, thus avoiding a likely "loss of turn" for your friend, it may very well be a sound decision. Depends probably of whoever between you two had the best chance to really reduce threat by killing enemies, and probably on whether you read enemy intent well and whether they will take the bait. Maybe you'll end saying "I should have just slashed them", maybe it will work as you planned and you'll be proud.

Please stop with that awfully reductive assumption that "if you don't deal damage you probably didn't contribute anything worth".
Optimal course of action is taken by thinking party-wide, taking everyone's immediate options into consideration, including enemies, and try to anticipate what comes next. :)


The key things Martials are missing are area of effect damage, recovery abilities, mobility, and the general field of "Plot Magic" (hard resurrection, long-distance teleporting, scrying, planar travel, etc). The last is a blight on the game's construction that forcefully sinks Spells Known into dealing with a handful of events, so all I'll say about solving that is "get hireling mechanics to handle it if you don't feel like having plot-magic done by plot-objects". They could also serve to have more variety of properly viable single-target damage, battlefield control and personal durability.

Part of the underlying problem is that there's not enough hooks of access for Martial classes to get ahold of more than one or two options via subclass. Feats don't have enough power budget to cover such a broad output, with even the greatest example of Polearm Master + Sentinel ultimately only making you have single-target battlefield control, and reliant on enemies not having ranged attacks to just attack past you. Most of them just flat-out don't have any option list inside the class to choose the needed effects from. It seems that the enthusiasm for the subclass system left them with a complete blindspot for spellcasters still getting to choose their spells regardless of subclass. Something that I adore the Mystic having the balls to say no to.

Having Superiority Dice be the base feature, with varying functions by class and tying them to more abilities, would probably be the best starting point. The biggest thing is allowing higher level Maneuvers. Whether that be ones which require a certain threshold of raw dice count to determine their abilities, ones requiring a given level in a specific class, or having them get spell-like access outright with requirements to turn them properly into a Tome of Battle port. In particular, I'd very much add recovery mechanics and have some Maneuvers get refund conditions to make prolonged fights work out, such that the Rogue could be played exactly the way it is currently, restocking the full 10d6 each round if it's all spent under the same conditions as the current Sneak Attack.

The Barbarian's Rage could be turned into the center of the recovery mechanic, probably being per attack dished out during Rage for the base class and most subclasses having an alternate recovery separate from Rage to allow them to fight usefully once they're out of Rage. The Fighter's recovery could be based on Opportunity Attacks, with features to get more of them and broader use of them internally, so as to call out the Spiked Chain Trippers of old that separated Fighters from Barbarian Ubercharging.

With the healing, I'd have it limited by long rest by being Hit Die + Superiority Dice, with a proper healing-focused Rogue subclass that restores hit dice on Short Rests and maybe a Barbarian who shares theirs. Which also recover on a Short Rest, either due to subclass or as their baseline healing ability. With mobility, I'd have a variety of Charge effects that stack with Dash to hit once at 4x movement (which is still under 14 miles per hour for the standard 30 ft. move...), as well as effects to move and reduce damage from the provoking instance of damage. There are a number of different options for how to implement them, after all, between action and what's boosted. Area damage could focus on dealing damage to enemies as they're passed, as well as leveraging sheer attack volume efficiently.

For Monk, I'd turn them into a prototype for a half-Manifester. Simplified a bit from using a proper Psionics ruleset, but still essentially converting them to a half-caster with a weird list and batch-based access, with the attendant ease of resolving the versatility problems by having them be explicitly covered in blatantly-supernatural nonsense. Which they admittedly deserve a pass on to begin with by virtue of having full permission to be as Wuxia as imaginable because Wuxia is literally their class concept. Probably go ahead and give them a habit of "Ki" ability changing subclasses, like a Constitution-based tank who's all about stepping on the Fighter's new zone control toes.

In general, I'd try externalizing the feature damage to Maneuvers, making sure to have single-target damage unchanged or slightly improved, and then have way, way better Maneuvers that actually compete with spellcasting versatility in various ways. Narrower effects, lower raw output, but able to deal with full breadth of party functions. Part of this would also involve expanding Two Weapon Fighting and Attacks of Opportunity to have Extra Attacks matter for them, such that the Fighter has enough to throw around for genuine zone control, the Barbarian may decide RATATATATA with handaxes is the appropriate course to take in a Rage, Paladins may find their novas even more nonsensically boss-blending and Rangers may actually get some serious archery done.

Those base rule changes would be a very basic to factor on the relevant abilities, since it's a blunt 2x from those non-typical-action attacks on non-Fighters and 4x on them. In terms of just raw base rules, it actually just levels it out in raw damage, since the Light weapons cap at 1d6 and the biggest raw damage is the 2d6 Maul and Greatsword, with the bonus action attacks not getting ability score bonus to damage, so both end up 2d6+Strength per attack you can make. Balancing per-hit bonuses to make TWF viable against Maneuver bonuses is a question to ask, as is keep both directions from considerably pushing the ceiling over existing builds. Not so much care need taken with keeping Paladin novas from becoming even more spectacular in output condensation, since that's... Honestly entirely unrelated to how they're supposed to play.
What you suggest is a very interesting approach, but it sounds like it requires a whole overhaul of the martial classes... ^^



Well I don't know much about Wuxia, but from what I understand it's just sped up fighting where everyone makes a bunch of pointless flips. And I know a fair bit about fighting. So let's see if I can get a list of things that I've always thought 5e should let martials do as standard procedure. And you can maybe embellish them up to the level you want your Wuxia guys to have.

These are pretty much in addition to everything a Battlemaster can do, unless I fiddled with something to make it more accurately reflect reality.


Parry: Reaction to make a melee attack roll opposed by your opponent's melee attack roll, if your attack roll is higher the attack is negated.

Beat: Knock an opponent's weapon aside this could in theory be modeled two different ways: 1) makes the opponent unable to make Opportunity Attacks, or 2) prevents them from making any further attacks on their turn.

Warding: Requires a big weapon, but constant swinging about makes it so that anyone that enters within your reach either automatically gets hit, or must make a Dexterity Saving Throw for half damage or something.

Counter-attack: Reaction, to roll damage of a melee attack. If your damage surpasses the opponent's melee damage their attack is negated and you deal all excess damage to your opponent. If you deal less damage, the enemy's attack automatically hits.

Feint: Bonus Action, make a melee attack roll opposed by your opponent's Will Saving Throw, if successful you gain Advantage on your next melee attack. Opponent gains Advantage on Will Saving Throws against Feints for the remainder of the encounter.

Set Spears: When using a polearm you can make Opportunity Attacks against opponent's that enter your Reach. If the attack is successful the opponent must make a Strength Saving Throw DC 8+Proficiency+Str or have their Speed reduced to 0 and get pushed back 5 feet.

Hook: Must use a weapon with a hook (axes, halberds, longswords when held in murderstroke grip), gain Advantage on Trip attempts, or have some action to attempt to pull a Shield away from the opponent so they cannot gain the Shield bonus or use abilities that require the use of a Shield until the start of their next turn.

Precise Strike: Must be done with piercing weapons. Disadvantage on the attack roll in order to ignore Resistance to damage.

Pommel Strike: You can attack with the pommel of your weapon. This attack deals 1d4+Str bludgeoning damage. When used as a basic attack you have Disadvantage on the attack roll. However, it can be used without Disadvantage when Grappled.

Quick Bash: After missing with a melee attack, you can take a Bonus Action to make a either a Shoulder Bash, Shield Bash or Pommel Strike. The Pommel Strike does not suffer Disadvantage, and can apply Disorienting Bash (see below) at no additional Chi cost (or half, or whatever is balanced). Choosing a Shoulder Bash deals Unarmed Damage and the target must make a Strength Saving Throw or be knocked back 10 feet. Choosing Shield Bash can apply either Disorienting Bash or the 10 feet knock back for free, or both for an additional cost.

Disorienting Bash: When attacking with a bludgeoning weapon, your target must make a Constitution Saving Throw or become Dazed, a new condition that's like a lesser Stunned.

Hidden Weapon: Bonus Action to hide your weapon behind your Shield, so your opponent cannot tell which angle you're going to attack from. Perhaps prevents them from taking Reactions against the attack?

Shield Me From the Explosion!: Just gonna level with you, having something big to hold out in front of you should give you a bonus against most area effects. So just give Shield bonus to Dexterity Saving Throws, maybe some specific spells can ignore it if it makes sense, but if you're worried about balance make Evasion not work when using a Shield or something.

Armor Block: Reaction to gain high Damage Reduction against an attack, the stronger the armor, the higher the DR.

Bleeding Attack: Successful attack with a cutting or piercing damage weapon makes the opponent make a Constitution Saving Throw or start taking damage per turn until they get healed.

Blood in the Eyes: Cutting or Piercing damage attack that makes the opponent make a Constitution Saving Throw or be Blinded until they or an adjacent ally takes an Action to wipe the blood from them.

Brutal Finish: Kill a creature, get a free Intimidation check against an opponent to inflict Frightened for a round. It is unfortunate that in the base game in-combat skills against the opponent are kinda rare. Personally, I blame Expertise really gumming up the math on what would otherwise be a balanced check vs save system. If you don't want to mess with Ecpertise, perhaps make it a normal 8+prof+Cha check, but the ability is only available to those who are trained in Intimidation.

War Cry: Area effect Intimidation to cause Frightened condition for a round.

Agile Dodge: Reaction to make an Acrobatics check against an enemy attack. If successful the attack is negated and you can move 5 feet, this movement does not provoke Opportunity Attacks.

Restraining Grapple: Like Grapple, but Restrains.

Manipulate Opponent: Bonus Action to force an opponent to make a Will Saving Throw, if successful the opponent must move 5 feet in any direction of your choice, provided it won't hurt them.

Unhorse: When attacking a mounted opponent, they must make a Constitution Saving Throw or fall off their mount.

Lockstep: Reaction to move to follow an opponent that moves away from you.

Trample: During a Mount's movement that they attempt to Trample over one creature smaller than them. That creature must make a Strength Saving Throw or be knocked prone, and takes damage based on the mount's natural attack.

Set Lance: When using a polearm that deals piercing damage while mounted, if you attack directly after your mount has moved at least 10 feet in a straight line you may add 1d6+your Mount's strength to the damage.

Block Ally: Provide your Shield bonus to allies.

Throw Opponent: When grappling an opponent, you can throw them. Don't know the mechanics of it, but they end a ways away from you, prone, and damaged.

Hamstring Cut: Make a melee attack that deals piercing or cutting damage, if successful the opponent must make a Constitution Saving Throw or have their Speed reduced by half until they are healed.

And two that I think should be in the game but don't directly relate to actual fighting.

Improved Mage Slayer: Just try waving your hands around to cast spells when someone has a sword in your face. When you make a successful reaction melee attack caused by mage slayer, the target must make a Constitution Saving Throw or the spell has no effect, but is considered cast for the purposes of determining remaining spell slots. For balance's sake I'd suggest Reaction spells, spells that require a melee attack as part of the spell are exempt, and spells cast by Paladins, Rangers, Arcane Trickster, and Eldritch Knights and other melee oriented subclasses are exempt.

Monstrous Dismemberment: When facing a creature of Large size or greater you can attempt to target a significant distinct part of their body that is not usual to a humanoid (for example: a dragon's wings, one of the hydra's heads, a manticore's tail, or a beholder's eye-stalks). Make an attack roll with Disadvantage, if successful the attack deals damage directly to the creature and to the targeted location. If the targeted location takes damage equivalent to 1/4 of the creature's total hit points that location no longer functions. The dragon will no longer be able to fly, the hydra loses a head, the manticore can no longer use his tail stinger, and the beholder loses the chosen eye-stalk.


Awesome list!! Thanks very much for sharing. :)

[Morty]

Please stop with that awfully reductive assumption that "if you don't deal damage you probably didn't contribute anything worth".


I would, if I had ever done that.

[col_impact]

1 level in Wizard gets you jump. Did I win anything?

[Cikomyr2]

1 level in Wizard gets you jump. Did I win anything?

Besides mobility with your movement, no. Not at all.

[HiveStriker]

I would, if I had ever done that.
Well...

Sacrificing damage for non-damaging effects is going to be very tricky in D&D. It dances on the razor's edge of being too good or just not worth it. If you're not dealing damage, you're not participating in bringing the enemy to 0 HP (or however much it takes before they surrender or run away), which is typically the actual victory condition.
Seems to me that you very stronly implied it here. Besides being technically wrong about it as I stressed above: unless you spend your time running away from the battlefield or brewing coffee or in any way *not* caring about the fight, most things you can do, directly damaging or otherwise, make you "participating in bringing the enemy to 0 HP" as long as you do its with that objective in mind. :)

[Vogie]

To focus the boosts on martial characters, I use a variation of Zipperon Disney's Expanded combat maneuvers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7atgKOJedNI&t=), which are unlocked only by the ability to make multiple attacks each turn:

Cleave When you take the Attack action and hit with a melee slashing weapon attack, you can choose to forgo one of your subsequent additional attacks in order to sweep your weapon around. When you take the Attack action and Cleave, you make a second attack roll against the an additional target within 5 ft of the first, immediately after you hit it. If both are hit, add your attack modifier (STR or DEX) to the damage roll twice, instead of once.
Stab When you take the Attack action and hit with a melee piercing weapon attack, you can choose to forgo one of your subsequent additional attacks in order to drive your weapon deeper. When you take the Attack action and Stab, you make a second attack roll against the same target immediately after you hit it. If the second attack roll total beats the target’s AC by 5 or more, roll the attack’s damage dice twice more, adding it to the total.
Sunder When you take the Attack action and hit with a melee bludgeoning weapon attack, you can choose to forgo one of your subsequent additional attacks in order to target a nonmagical object the target is wearing or carrying. When you take the Attack action and Sunder, targeting the object’s AC and hit points as normal, but if the attack is a critical hit, the object is immediately destroyed
Snipe If you’re able to make multiple attacks when taking the Attack action you can replace two of those attacks with a single well aimed shot. When you take the Attack action and Snipe, you make an attack with a ranged or thrown weapon and gain a +10 bonus to your attack roll.


This opens it up to all martials, and to a lesser extent, dual wielders.

I could also see the re-introduction of some of the lesser-used spells in RAW as accessible by non-casters in a non-magical sense. Things like variations on Flame Arrows, Enhance Ability, alarm, Snare, and the like.

I had similar thoughts in previous editions as well:



Limitless learning- Fighters continue to train and thus can change their feats over time. You could rebuild the feat system, or a portion of the feat system so it more closely resembles a Spell list, then restrict the fighters to only use those over the course of the day. You could have them shift their feats around daily, after a long rest, so they have to spend an hour in training to keep their senses sharp, or only allow shifts each level.
The Bourne Legacy - the Fighter has a massive passive perception, far above what would be available for their stats. It could be gated by # of times/day or short rest, but the fighter will automatically glean large amounts of information in an area. Your survival skills increase when you are fatigue, are bloodied/low on health, or are low on rations.
Swords AND Plowshares - while normal PCs may tangentially be related to their backstories, professions and social traits, fighters are still that when not actively fighting. They get an additional Social trait for free, and that trait's bonus is increased by 50-100%. They also gain additional benefits while in environments populated by that profession, gaining information without use of diplomacy, bluff, or intimidation checks, and can find local work faster than Players of other classes.
The Man They Call Jayne - Fighters gain a passive leadership feat while staying in an area for a period of time, and they will be actively sought out by the community as a person of help, more than the other classes. They attract people who wish to learn from them, but can only pay in favors. The longer a fighter stays in an area, he or she will accrue more one-use benefits from the locals, such as use of horses, carts, locksmiths, crafters, and the like, and can use these network of favors to gain knowledge similar to a spell, such as divination, Suggestion, charm person, comprehend language or commune, or just add NPC allies to the group for a period of time.
With Maximum Effort - When studying a difficult problem, a fighter can gain a class skill for an encounter and using their intelligence or wisdom modifier as the value. This allows a fighter to suddenly gain skills such as Acrobatics, Swim, Animal Handling, Climb, Use Rope, et cetera, for a brief period. This could also manifest as self-only castings of Spiderclimb* (*like a heavily intoxicated spider), Feather fall* (*but only when against a wall), Rope Trick* (*without the extra-dimensional part), and so on.
Suck it up, you Big Baby - Being a fighter has fighting right on the tin, and because of that, a fighter gains the ability to bandage the wounds of him and others. While not channeling positive energy, the fighter gains the ability to cast Stabilize, detect poison, and Cure light wounds... although the somatic component is putting on a bandage, and the verbal component is muttering under your breath or cursing.
Utility Belt - The fighter gains a small pouch of trinkets that come in handy from time to time. These trinkets are mundane, but act in the same manner as the cantrips Ghost sound, flare, light/produce flame, know direction and open/close.
Portal Combat - It just so happens that fighting beings with the ability to blink and teleport is something that fighters have to do on occasion, and fighters are trained to battle these foes. This could be a device that allows them to Side-Along follow a teleportation spell, a strike that acts as a small dimensional lock on a target, a bonus to shooting ranged weapons through the "gate scar" behind the teleporter, or a Grappling weapon that teleports with the target (similar to the Paladin's weapons in the forgettable movie Jumper)

[Warwick]

Well...

Seems to me that you very stronly implied it here. Besides being technically wrong about it as I stressed above: unless you spend your time running away from the battlefield or brewing coffee or in any way *not* caring about the fight, most things you can do, directly damaging or otherwise, make you "participating in bringing the enemy to 0 HP" as long as you do its with that objective in mind. :)

They make you participate in combat, but you're not reducing enemy HP. To that end, non-damaging actions need to measure the opportunity cost of not just making an attack instead (death being the strongest form of crowd control). If they enhance the party's ability to reduce the enemy to 0 HP, great. However, in 5e they often wind up being a waste of a turn, e.g. if I spend my action knocking a guy down, and then on his turn he... stands back up and attacks me, which he was going to do anyway.