Healing Spirit... Again

[Galithar]

Okay, so for those of you who like Healing Spirit as is I apologise for bringing this up on the forums again. I just saw a new alteration for Healing Spirit that I liked.

This was posted in the April Fool's 6e thread. So I hope I'm not breaking a forum rule by cross quoting.


Healing Spirit only heals 1+your spellcasting MOD d6 then disappears :smallbiggrin:

So, I don't like how Healing Spirit is the be all end all of out of combat healing. The normal solution is usually Ban it or make the healing cost an action of some sort, usually reaction and/or bonus. But what if instead we just limited it's maximum amount healed, but still allowed the party to conga line through it? Everyone could potentially heal in one round, it could out heal other healing spells of it's level slightly but be balanced by taking up concentration.

So what if we balanced the amount healed to Prayer of Healing? Same level spell with different applications.

So 12d8+30 is what Prayer of Healing can heal. (I'm assuming maxed casting stat) that's an average of 84 points of healing if effecting 6 targets. Or 56 on average for 4 targets. So I think the average healing for Healing Spirit should be slightly less (it can potentially all go to one target and Prayer of Healing can't)

So 56 is the average of 16d6. We want it to heal for slightly less then that, and then make sure we preserve it's ability to scale with slot level.

I'm thinking it could heal 10+casting mod times. As slot level goes up you get more healing each time. Slot level scaling is preserved. It can heal up to 15d6 at it's base level which is 52.5 on average. Each level upcast would add another 52.5 average healing though. It appears to scale far better then Prayer of Healing could.

5+casting mod healings would reduce it's early game effectiveness. A +3 mod would give 8d6 healing at level 2 slot. That's 28 average healing. So we're considerably below Prayer of Healing, but a level 2 cure wounds would only be 2d8+mod (3 for this example) average of 12.


Comparison at level 3 with +3 mods.
Level 2 Cure Wounds: 12 (Instant)
Level 2 Prayer of Healing (4 targets): 48 (After 10 minutes)
Level 2 Healing Spirit with 5+mod heals: 28 (after 8+ turns)


Comparison at level 7 with +4 mods.
Level 4 Cure Wounds: 22
Level 4 Prayer of Healing: 88
Level 4 Healing Spirit with 5+mod heals: 94.5


So at base level there is a direct relationship between amount of time taken, and amount healed. Healing Spirit breaks that at level 4+ spell slots, but not in a way that I think makes me personally unhappy with the spell. Edit: It would take longer to surpass Prayer of Healing if you affect the full 6 targets.

What do you think playground?
(Sorry for the kind of stream of consciousness format
I was coming up with this as I wrote it.)

Edit: When effecting maximum number of targets with a maxed out casting stat Prayer of Healing and the 5+Mod Healing Spirit have nearly equal average healing at 8th level slots. I find that to be perfect for what makes me happy about the balance of Healing Spirit.

[LtPowers]

I'm not quite sure how to tell you this, but the modification Daphne posted is actually official errata.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1245363675025694720?fbclid=IwAR2h35VYWhzcTDRFqIINX dqwH4FYUovtmjPBiiKGip6zU5EmkwQ7cKfBt18


Powers &8^]

[LudicSavant]

I'm not quite sure how to tell you this, but the modification Daphne posted is actually official errata.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1245363675025694720?fbclid=IwAR2h35VYWhzcTDRFqIINX dqwH4FYUovtmjPBiiKGip6zU5EmkwQ7cKfBt18


Powers &8^]

Why the heck isn't the official errata actually posted on their errata page?

[Galithar]

I'm not quite sure how to tell you this, but the modification Daphne posted is actually official errata.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1245363675025694720?fbclid=IwAR2h35VYWhzcTDRFqIINX dqwH4FYUovtmjPBiiKGip6zU5EmkwQ7cKfBt18


Powers &8^]

Given the day I'm assuming this is a prank. Had that tweet been from yesterday I would believe it, but until I see evidence of it on D&D Beyond on a day other than today I won't believe it. (Or if someone I know and trust gives me proof of a printed version)

I am completely serious about my Nerf though, and will be proposing it to my players. (Even if it does turn out to be legit I think I like my version better anyways 😂)


Why the heck isn't the official errata actually posted on their errata page?

Because of April Fool's. The day of pranks.

[MaxWilson]

Nerfing Healing Spirit puts the focus back on Aura of Vitality, but that's probably okay. You can heal 2000+ HP per long rest by 10th level with Aura of Vitality, but at least you have to work at it. Healing Spirit on the other hand is built in to every single druid, and any ranger who cares enough to take it

I don't believe that tweet either--timing, and tone. It's a little too eager to show photographic evidence instead of just disclaiming April Fools'. But if they did make this change to Xanathar's I would not be upset.

[LtPowers]

Why the heck isn't the official errata actually posted on their errata page?

Apparently they time the errata to reprinted books being in customers' hands, which they now are.



(Or if someone I know and trust gives me proof of a printed version)

I've seen two different photographs of the updated text, from customers, on on Twitter and one on Facebook.


Powers &8^]

[Galithar]

Nerfing Healing Spirit puts the focus back on Aura of Vitality, but that's probably okay. You can heal 2000+ HP per long rest by 10th level with Aura of Vitality, but at least you have to work at it. Healing Spirit on the other hand is built in to every single druid, and any ranger who cares enough to take it

I don't believe that tweet either--timing, and tone. It's a little too eager to show photographic evidence instead of just disclaiming April Fools'. But if they did make this change to Xanathar's I would not be upset.

Aura of Vitality would heal the exact same as a 3rd level Healing Spirit. 2d6 up to 10 times at max spellcasting mod. It would make Aura slightly stronger only if Healing Spirit caster didn't have a maxed casting stat. AND the Aura would still take your bonus action every turn and Healing Spirit wouldn't have to. It would be a slightly less powerful spell than my version of Healing Spirit instead of considerably weaker as it currently is as written.

Edit: I still don't buy it being real. Again pictures posted on different media is EASY to stage. I'll believe it when a TRUSTED source (AKA not random people on the internet) shows proof. But if it is, all the better. It's long overdue in my opinion.

[Daphne]

Given the day I'm assuming this is a prank. Had that tweet been from yesterday I would believe it, but until I see evidence of it on D&D Beyond on a day other than today I won't believe it. (Or if someone I know and trust gives me proof of a printed version)

Crawford already talked about it here (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1245363675025694720).

The original reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/fsj6ow/healing_spirit_change/) post has some pics and even a video.

I don't use D&D Beyond but there's some talk about it (https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/61556-healing-spirit-question) already.

Cheers :smallwink:

[MaxWilson]

Aura of Vitality would heal the exact same as a 3rd level Healing Spirit. 2d6 up to 10 times at max spellcasting mod. It would make Aura slightly stronger only if Healing Spirit caster didn't have a maxed casting stat.

No, Healing Spirit III with Wis 20 is six heals for 2d6 each, therefore 12d6 (42). Aura of Vitality is 20d6 (70). Extended Aura of Vitality is 40d6 (140). Extended Aura of Vitality with Disciple of Life is 40d6+100 (240).

[Galithar]

No, Healing Spirit III with Wis 20 is six heals for 2d6 each, therefore 12d6 (42). Aura of Vitality is 20d6 (70). Extended Aura of Vitality is 40d6 (140). Extended Aura of Vitality with Disciple of Life is 40d6+100 (240).

I'm talking about my numbers from my first post, not the potential errata from Wizards. So mine would be 10 heals from healing spirit not 6.

[JNAProductions]

I did a revision (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?596838-Healing-Spirit-Revised) a while ago.

[Segev]

Would it be more balanced, or too undertuned, if it could only provide 1d6 healing per round, maximum? So first-come, first-serve each round?

Or if, instead of rolling 1d6, it let the person passing through it spend a hit die, roll it and add their con mod, and heal that much? (Basically taking their short rest healing and giving them a portion in combat-time.)

[MaxWilson]

Would it be more balanced, or too undertuned, if it could only provide 1d6 healing per round, maximum? So first-come, first-serve each round?

Not balanced. I've been running out this way all along but it's still ridiculously good and a no-brainer.

Any time players are often tempted to save SP for healing instead of Shield, the healing is probably too strong (unless the PC is deliberately specialized for healing). Shield *can* save you from taking 35 HP of damage, but even against dragons it typically won't--in normal circumstances usually it's more likely to save you from about 10 to 20. The nerfed version, which I'm starting to believe in since it showed up 3 days before April Fools, brings Healing Spirit down to being about as efficient as Shield.

[Segev]

Not balanced. I've been running out this way all along but it's still ridiculously good and a no-brainer.

Any time players are often tempted to save SP for healing instead of Shield, the healing is probably too strong (unless the PC is deliberately specialized for healing). Shield *can* save you from taking 35 HP of damage, but even against dragons it typically won't--in normal circumstances usually it's more likely to save you from about 10 to 20. The nerfed version, which I'm starting to believe in since it showed up 3 days before April Fools, brings Healing Spirit down to being about as efficient as Shield.

"Save SP?" What are "SP" in this context? I'm either brain farting or not recognizing the acronym.

What about the idea that it instead lets the beneficiary spend a hit die and roll it and add their Con modifier (minimum result of 1 on the die)? This will make it heal roughly the same % of any given character's hp per round they use it, use up a resource that is finite besides the spell slot (but finite per-character, rather than per-caster), and also make it more efficient for bigger-hit-die and higher-Con creatures as in-combat healing, which is what I think it was balanced for.

[MaxWilson]

"Save SP?" What are "SP" in this context? I'm either brain farting or not recognizing the acronym.

What about the idea that it instead lets the beneficiary spend a hit die and roll it and add their Con modifier (minimum result of 1 on the die)? This will make it heal roughly the same % of any given character's hp per round they use it, use up a resource that is finite besides the spell slot (but finite per-character, rather than per-caster), and also make it more efficient for bigger-hit-die and higher-Con creatures as in-combat healing, which is what I think it was balanced for.

DMG spell points, which have the same cost as sorcery points. 1st level costs 2 SP, 2nd is 3 SP, 3rd is 5 SP.

That HD spending idea sure sounds okay--gives it a niche similar to Catnap out of combat while still maintaining in-combat utility. No objections, except to the nomenclature of "hit dice" which should have been called something else in the first place to avoid confusion. :P

[LudicSavant]

As printed in my copy of XGtE, Healing Spirit's key issues are more or less as follows:

1) Healing Spirit has one of the best upcasting ratios in the entire game. Raising it a level gives you a full +100% healing. Who thought that was a good idea?

2) Can heal multiple times per turn. It's not 1d6/level/round, it's 1d6/level/trigger.

3) Synergizes quite well with other features (like Life Cleric 1).

4) Clearly better than Aura of Vitality. Even if Healing Spirit could only be cast in its 3rd level slot form, and could only heal once per round, Healing Spirit would still be notably better because it takes a bonus action for the initial cast. Add onto that its protential for upcasting, triggering multiple times a round, and so forth, and the gap is pretty clear.

[MaxWilson]

4) Clearly better than Aura of Vitality. Even if Healing Spirit could only be cast in its 3rd level slot form, and could only heal once per round, Healing Spirit would still be notably better because it takes a bonus action for the initial cast. Add onto that its protential for upcasting, triggering multiple times a round, and so forth, and the gap is pretty clear.

Agreed. Aura of Vitality is better for healing undead and constructs, and is more mobile in mounted combat, but Healing Spirit as originally written is still clearly superior including the ability to downcast at 2nd level for minor healing.

[Segev]

DMG spell points, which have the same cost as sorcery points. 1st level costs 2 SP, 2nd is 3 SP, 3rd is 5 SP.

That HD spending idea sure sounds okay--gives it a niche similar to Catnap out of combat while still maintaining in-combat utility. No objections, except to the nomenclature of "hit dice" which should have been called something else in the first place to avoid confusion. :PAh. I take it you use that variant in your games. Hence my confusion; my game, we use the standard spell slots, so my first thought was "Sorcery Points," but then I thought, "Nah, he can't be talking about the narrow case of a Celestial Sorcerer, can he?" :smalleek:

That makes more sense. And yeah, the goal would be to make it what I think it's meant to be: a combat-heal that has a certain amount of action efficiency but makes for some tactical placement questions. If that was STILL too much, you could remove the IFF from it, making it so the caster and the party have to guard its position to keep enemies from taking advantage, too.


As printed in my copy of XGtE, Healing Spirit's key issues are more or less as follows:

1) Healing Spirit has one of the best upcasting ratios in the entire game. Raising it a level gives you a full +100% healing. Who thought that was a good idea?

2) Can heal multiple times per turn. It's not 1d6/level/round, it's 1d6/level/trigger.

3) Synergizes quite well with other features (like Life Cleric 1).

4) Clearly better than Aura of Vitality. Even if Healing Spirit could only be cast in its 3rd level slot form, and could only heal once per round, Healing Spirit would still be notably better because it takes a bonus action for the initial cast. Add onto that its protential for upcasting, triggering multiple times a round, and so forth, and the gap is pretty clear.

Let's see if we can't play with this a bit.

Healing Spirit
Level 2 Necromancy
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You call forth a nature spirit to enable the wounded to draw more deeply on their reserves and keep fighting. The intangible spirit appears in a space that is a 5-foot cube you can see within range. The spirit looks like a transparent beast or fey (your choice). Until the spell ends, whenever a creature you can see (including yourself) moves into the spirit's space for the first time on its turn or starts its turn there, the creature's player may spend one of its hit dice to roll it and add its Constitution modifier, regaining that many hit points. This requires no action. Constructs and undead cannot gain hit points from this effect. As a bonus action on your turn, you can move the Spirit up to 30 feet to a space you can see within range.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the healing increases by 1 for each slot level above 2nd. So a 3rd-level casting would enable a Barbarian with 16 Constitution to regain 1d12+4 hp by spending a hit die. A 6th-level casting would enable the same Barbarian to heal 1d12+7 hp by spending that same hit die.



I have incorporated both the "spend a hit die" healing (increasing the amount healed per instance but putting a sharper limit on how much can be healed), and altered the upcasting benefit. I might have gone overboard on nerfing the upcasting. I also made it more tactically dangerous by removing IFF; the caster doesn't choose if somebody can spend a hit die, so if enemies see it and move through it....

[MaxWilson]

Ah. I take it you use that variant in your games. Hence my confusion; my game, we use the standard spell slots, so my first thought was "Sorcery Points," but then I thought, "Nah, he can't be talking about the narrow case of a Celestial Sorcerer, can he?" :smalleek:

I do use spell points, and DMG spell points is one option I offer players although it's not my favorite one because at high levels it is still almost as complex as spell slots.

Mostly though, referring to SP during online discussions is a convenient, WotC-blessed way of analyzing spell power equivalents, as you can see from the fact that sorcerers use the same conversion rate. (No, WotC doesn't adhere to its own guidelines completely, or we wouldn't be talking about Healing Spirit in the first place, so emphasis is on "convenient".)


I have incorporated both the "spend a hit die" healing (increasing the amount healed per instance but putting a sharper limit on how much can be healed), and altered the upcasting benefit. I might have gone overboard on nerfing the upcasting. I also made it more tactically dangerous by removing IFF; the caster doesn't choose if somebody can spend a hit die, so if enemies see it and move through it....

*shrug* Yeah, seems fine. It's definitely much weaker than before but there are cases where someone might take it. Would probably get a black or purple rating in an "optimization guide". At least it does still have good action economy.

I have no real preference between your version and WotC's revised version. Would mostly ignore the spell as a player, either way.

[Merudo]

Healing Spirit is now one of the worst spells in the game. I can't image preparing this, ever. What a waste.

[Segev]

Healing Spirit is now one of the worst spells in the game. I can't image preparing this, ever. What a waste.

What will you go-to healing spell be instead, now?

[Merudo]

What will you go-to healing spell be instead, now?

Healing Word, Goodberry and Cure Wound (for Clerics only) are the only healing spells worth it at this point.

Healing Word for yoyo-healing, Goodberry for using up remaining spellslots at the end of the day, and Cure Wound as a Healing Word replacement for Clerics who want to smash things with their Spiritual Weapon.

[MaxWilson]

What will you go-to healing spell be instead, now?

Extended Aura of Vitality. Goodberry as a no-concentration backstop. Also, just plain short rest healing.

This is also a buff to Necromancers, in a sense, because their Grim Harvest/Vampiric Touch combo just got more attractive again, especially in parties where Aura of Vitality doesn't exist or has not yet come online.

Overall I'm pleased to see this change. It was long overdue--Healing Spirit was distorting the game design in a way similar to but worse than Polymorph.

[Keravath]

This thread was posted on D&D Beyond 3 days ago in case that makes any difference.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/61556-healing-spirit-question

Someone had a copy of Xanathar's printed in China with different wording for the Healing spirit spell so they posted to ask about it.

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JC posted the following today which (since it is April Fool's Day) raises eyebrows.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2020/04/01/xanathars-guide-everything-errata/

It would have made much more sense to me if they had released errata along with the new printing of the book.

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There is also a video posted as part of the twitter discussion showing someone paging through a copy of Xanathar's with revised wording for several things - still could be an April Fools but should know by tomorrow.

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However, the scaling says when cast at higher levels the healing increases by 1d6 for each level used. It does not say the number of heals which means that if accurate Healing Spirit will still scale particularly well when upcast.

1+ casting modifiers x 2d6 healing from a 3rd level slot would be 12d6 with a 20 casting stat. Going to 18d6 with a 4th level slot and so on ...