Anti-Crusader

[Techcaliber]

Hello there! I've recently started a campaign where one of my players is playing a crusader paladin. Uber-religious, slightly militaristic, you probably know what I mean. That got me thinking: what would the opposite of that look like? A character dedicated to turning people away from the worship of gods, believing that the dedicated worship of these beings takes away from the freedom of the worshipper.

My question: what build would you suggest to pull this off? Oathbreaker Paladin was my first thought, but that also seemed SUPER obvious, so I want to hear you thoughts on builds that use other classes. Of course, if you have an idea for the Oathbreaker, feel free to share it, but I'm looking for something else.

Thanks in advance!

[OldTrees1]

The opposite of a Crusader is a Paladin.


I would suggest a Paladin of the Ancients. Someone that walks among the people. Trying to help them see and grow their own potential rather than be stuck in the inaction of worship. A person that embodies self improvement and spreads that message like a wildfire. Let each person know they have an inner light, and help them to grow it into another beacon of hope and happiness. They might help build schools, libraries, hospitals, and shelters.

[Man_Over_Game]

Someone who believes in only themselves, who revels in chaos and violence.

I'm thinking a Battlemaster Fighter with a single level of Barbarian.

[Segev]

I’d go with rogue or bard.

A rogue with an attitude of “serve no one but yourself, and do what you will.” A cowardly combatant. Not ineffective at it, but refusing to face people square on. Expertise in stealth and athletics, and favors hiding, sneaking up, and then sneak attacking before hiding again. If he’s human, he might take tavern brawler and fight with darts in melee, grappling on a successful hit. If he’s a lightfoot halfling, he grapples and then uses his bonus action to hide behind his victim, before putting them on the ground in the next round.

But better if he can stay at range. Climbing walls and hiding and generally not being seen, because freedom is doing what you want and others can’t be allowed to stop him.

[firelistener]

Someone who believes in only themselves, who revels in chaos and violence.

I'm thinking a Battlemaster Fighter with a single level of Barbarian.

I'd go with this, and also promoting the theme of "personal responsibility" along with chaos. A crusader believes in meaningful cause (their "crusade") that exists externally. It provides motivation, justification, and often the actual means of action through spells and blessings.

So the inverse would be this warrior that believes there are no external causes that can provide motivation. Everything to them is "meaningless" or they believe people create their own meaning in life if they're less nihilistic. Next, they believe everyone is to be held responsible for their actions. No arguments like "well the god of war wants me to do this" will satisfy them. And finally, they should not derive their own empowerment from an external source. While a paladin can technically work without anything like that, I feel that a fighter or rogue would better display a true dedication to self-reliance.

[Segev]

I'd go with this, and also promoting the theme of "personal responsibility" along with chaos. A crusader believes in meaningful cause (their "crusade") that exists externally. It provides motivation, justification, and often the actual means of action through spells and blessings.

So the inverse would be this warrior that believes there are no external causes that can provide motivation. Everything to them is "meaningless" or they believe people create their own meaning in life if they're less nihilistic. Next, they believe everyone is to be held responsible for their actions. No arguments like "well the god of war wants me to do this" will satisfy them. And finally, they should not derive their own empowerment from an external source. While a paladin can technically work without anything like that, I feel that a fighter or rogue would better display a true dedication to self-reliance.

That's not really the inverse. A Crusader believes in responsibility. An anti-crusader, the true inverse, wouldn't believe in any responsibility at all. Only consequences.

[Millstone85]

A character dedicated to turning people away from the worship of gods, believing that the dedicated worship of these beings takes away from the freedom of the worshipper.That is the stated goal of the Athar, a faction in Planescape. They believe that Pelor, Shar, etc. do exist but would be powerless without worshippers (They are right), that divine spellcasting can be achieved without a god (Right again), and that mortals would be better off without these parasites (Maybe true, maybe wrong, especially depending on what a DM has the gods do in the universe).


Oathbreaker Paladin was my first thought, but that also seemed SUPER obvious, so I want to hear you thoughts on builds that use other classes.How is it obvious? Pretty bad choice, actually. Your character is dedicated to a cause, while an oathbreaker is defined by having turned away from one.

I would say Oath of Vengeance, with the gods as your sworn enemies.

[DarknessEternal]

It would look identical. There's no difference between any kind of religious fundamentalists, no matter if they are pro or con.

[Zetakya]

A Wizard, concerned with the fundamental operations of the cosmos, who has become aware that the gods are merely puppets empowered by belief, and that people can free themselves by Intellectual Brilliance from the grasp of those deities.

[WadeWay33]

It would look identical. There's no difference between any kind of religious fundamentalists, no matter if they are pro or con.

Well, at least in game terms, one who values chaos is gonna be a different alignment then one who values law and order. They’d probably be different subclasses of Paladin/cleric if applicable

[Sorinth]

If you want the anti-crusader to be a sort of dark mirror then it would simply be a Paladin whose oath/beliefs are simply the opposite.

If you want the anti-crusader to be more of a opposite in terms of actions then you'd probably want to go Rogue.

If you want something that's more of a polar opposite then you are looking at a pacifist. Monk works flavour wise but not really mechanics wise. Bard would probably be a better fit mechanics wise and can easily play the pacifist role. If going Bard I'd be tempted to avoid the music aspect and simply make him a great orator and fluff his spellcasting as if he was a wizard/sorceror.

[Techcaliber]

How is it obvious? Pretty bad choice, actually. Your character is dedicated to a cause, while an oathbreaker is defined by having turned away from one.

I would say Oath of Vengeance, with the gods as your sworn enemies.

Oathbreaker Paladins are described a breaking their sacred oath to pursue a dark ambition or evil power. My thought here was the dark ambition, which may not actually be dark by today's standard, but in a world where dedicated worship of the gods is commonplace and people receive tangible benefits (if you can call magic tangible), trying to turn people away from the gods may be seen as dark. And with them serving their own ambition, it removes the reliance of the power of a god.

Meanwhile, Oath of Vengeance draws on the powers of a god toe ensure that those who have committed grievous sins are punished. Heck, this is the description of the Vengeance paladin: "The Oath of Vengeance is a solemn commitment to punish those who have committed a grievous sin. When evil forces slaughter helpless villagers, when an entire people turns against the will of the gods, when a thieves' guild grows too violent and powerful, when a dragon rampages through the countryside – at times like these, paladins arise and swear an Oath of Vengeance to set right that which has gone wrong. To these paladins – sometimes called avengers or dark knights – their own purity is not as important as delivering justice." (PHB Pg 87). But thank you for posting your thoughts.

And thank you everyone for the post replies, I just want to clear one thing up: I'm not looking for just serving one's self, making sure that I survive no matter what. I want to turn people away from the gods, show them that they don't need the gods. I apologize if I worded it poorly in my original post. I have a tendency to get my words jumbled up when trying to convey my thoughts into text.

Thanks again and I look forward to future posts!