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LibraryOgre
2020-04-02, 11:29 PM
Psionicists will tell you that they master themselves, first, and that their powers, though wondrous, are not precisely magical. There seems to be some truth to that, as the powers they enact, though they may mechanically resemble spells, seem to shrug off countermeasures made to disable spellcasting; a psionicist does not "cast spells", they "use powers". Masters of the psychic, psionicists weave flexible magic without spell slots, often needing neither word nor gesture.

1st level
Psionicists are unique in that they do not receive spell slots, as standard sorcerers do. Instead, they receive an allotment of sorcery points beginning at 1st level, and may create the spell slots they need as they adventure. Unlike other sorcerers, creating spell slots does not require a bonus action, and they are able to create spell slots up to 9th level, though they are still limited in the maximum level of their spell slot according to their psionicist level (so, they cannot create 2nd level spell slots until 3rd level, 3rd until 5th, 4th until 7th, and so on).

Spell Slot Cost:
1st 2
2nd 3
3rd 5
4th 6
5th 7
6th 9
7th 10
8th 11
9th 13

Sorcery points per level
1st 4
2nd 8
3rd 17
4th 21
5th 32
6th 38
7th 45
8th 52
9th 66
10th 74
11th 84
12th 85
13th 96
14th 97
15th 109
16th 110
17th 124
18th 132
19th 142
20th 153

Additionally, psionics are not exactly magic. Effects that would counter, dispel, or suppress psionics always force an ability check against a DC of 10 + the spell slot used by the psychic + the psychic's proficiency bonus. So, for example, a 5th level wizard attempting to dispel the Charm Person of a 1st level psionicist would require an Intelligence test against 10 + 1 (1st level spell slot) + 2 (proficiency bonus at 1st level), despite the fact that Dispel Magic will normally automatically dispel 1st level spells. Likewise, the charmed person entering an Antimagic Field might remain charmed. Likewise, at 1st level, all psionicists begin with the Subtle Spell metamagic, which they know and may use in addition to other metamagics, at normal cost.

Psionicists know spells and cantrips with the same restrictions as other sorcerers. All psionicists know the Mage Hand and Message cantrips; these are NOT bonus cantrips, but count as cantrips known. A psionicst's Message cantrip resists magical silence, as above; their Mage Hand is invisible.

6th Level
Masters of mental combat, psionicists add their Charisma modifier to all psychic damage. They may, when using a power that causes damage, spend 1 additional sorcery point to change the damage to psychic damage. Additionally, they may spend 1 power point to erect psychic defenses, and gain resistance against psychic damage for 1 hour.

14th level
Psionicists rely on their sorcery points far more than other sorcerers, and may, with meditation, tap a further well of sorcery points. After a short rest, they may regain up to one fourth (1/4) of their normal sorcery points, subject to their usual maximum. They may only do this once per long rest. When they reach 20th level, this is in addition to the 4 points recovered by Sorcerous Restoration. Additionally, Subtle Spell no longer requires sorcery points; all a psionicist's spells may be subtle, at their discretion.

18th level
Psionicists are masters of their minds, and able to maintain several delicate states of mind at one time. They may maintain concentration on a spell, and cast and concentrate on another spell at the same time. They may do this a number of times equal to their Charisma modifier; e.g. a psionicist with a 20 Charisma may maintain concentration on two spells at once five times in a day. These uses reset with a long rest.

***
Design notes:

So, psychics in D&D have long been point-based; 1e, two different ways in 2e, 3e, and I think 4e had some psychic points; this takes an existing semi-point-based caster (the sorcerer) and makes them fully point-based. The number of sorcery points provided at each level should be equal to the amount a standard sorcerer would have, if all of their spell slots were created from sorcery points. They get bonus, 1st level, metamagic, since psionics can be silent and gestureless, but don't have to be... even Master Yoda lifts his hand and hums to lift an X-wing. To make psionics somewhat unique from magic, I threw in a bit of resistance to dispel, counterspell, and anti-magic shell... these are not precisely magic, and may escape countermeasures to magic. It's a very useful ability, so I threw in a slight cost... you don't get to choose two of your cantrips. The two chosen for you aren't bad ones to have, but it's a touch less flexibility, while being a call-out to traditional psychic powers or telepathy and telekinesis.

At 6th level, I'll be honest, I just cribbed from the Draconic Sorcerer, and changed it to Psychic. You know, I know it, I have not shame. I gave them the ability to make any damage psychic, which is a bit potent, but I think it works without being too crazy, especially as I tossed a cost on doing so.

14th level gives them something similar to the wizard's Arcane Recovery, and hearkens to psionicists of older editions getting to recharge their powers throughout the day, not just at sleep. Again, there's a two-fold cost here... you have to do it after a short rest, and you can only do it once per long rest. It's a great ability, but not sovereign.

18th level was a fun one; I wanted something that would really set them apart, and the ability to concentrate on two things at once seemed like a good, psychic sort of power. It's limited by their Charisma bonus, just to prevent them from having carte blanche to double-cast.

Kane0
2020-04-03, 02:48 AM
Lvl 1 SP: OK, so they use spell points. Do these stack with Sorcery Points gained at level 2? Are there any other interactions here with Font of Magic? Do you follow the DMG rule that limits making more than one slot each of 6th level and above?
Lvl 1 not quite magic: I like that there is magic interaction but it isn't exactly the same, an opposed check to pull off a counter/dispel seems appropriate. I would also suggets that the reverse is true, that *you* have to succeed on a check using these things when used against 'normal' magic
Lvl locked cantrips: I'm not a fan. I get that these are cornerstone identifiers of psionics, but you're still taking decisions away from the player. These could just be additional freebies alongside subtle metamagic.

Idea: How about free subtle metamagic known with 0 cost but only for spells that deal Psychic damage or force a Wisdom saving throw against a single target?

level 6: Is this per hit or once per turn? We can probably do better than copying from draconic, see below but how about you gain psychic resistance or prof in wisdom saves and can pay 2 SP to swap that as an action?

level 14: Casting resource recovery matching the wizards level 1 feature, it's not bad just a little late. Free subtle is good but at this level you're swimming in so many SP it might not make that much of a difference

level 18: Double concentration up to 5 times per day, this is a big deal. Probably not gamebreaking at level 18, but damn thats pretty desirable.


Overall level 1 really feels like you're playing something different, the rest feels a little generic. This would be a prime time to add some sorc only spells, but what I would also like to see is a nod to disciplines (say at 6th level and improved on at 18th), some more flavorful aspects like crystals (replacing standard foci?) and maybe a special metamagic or two (could fit into level 14).

LibraryOgre
2020-04-03, 10:41 AM
Lvl 1 SP: OK, so they use spell points. Do these stack with Sorcery Points gained at level 2? Are there any other interactions here with Font of Magic? Do you follow the DMG rule that limits making more than one slot each of 6th level and above?
Lvl 1 not quite magic: I like that there is magic interaction but it isn't exactly the same, an opposed check to pull off a counter/dispel seems appropriate. I would also suggets that the reverse is true, that *you* have to succeed on a check using these things when used against 'normal' magic
Lvl locked cantrips: I'm not a fan. I get that these are cornerstone identifiers of psionics, but you're still taking decisions away from the player. These could just be additional freebies alongside subtle metamagic.

If you do the math, the sorcery points from Font of Magic are added in; multiply the slots of a given level by the cost of buying a slot, and add in the sorcery points from Font of Magic, and you get the number of SP, and you have that many SP; it's an increase in flexibility, not resources.



Idea: How about free subtle metamagic known with 0 cost but only for spells that deal Psychic damage or force a Wisdom saving throw against a single target?

Interesting idea. I like it.



level 6: Is this per hit or once per turn? We can probably do better than copying from draconic, see below but how about you gain psychic resistance or prof in wisdom saves and can pay 2 SP to swap that as an action?

TBH, copying from Draconic in this instance feels right, even if we tweak it a bit. The draconic bonus is every attack, not per turn, so I planned to keep it on that. For the resistance/save proficiency, are you thinking that they're permanent... like, I pick one, then can later spend 2 SP to switch it?


level 14: Casting resource recovery matching the wizards level 1 feature, it's not bad just a little late. Free subtle is good but at this level you're swimming in so many SP it might not make that much of a difference

I'm not as familiar with high level play... does higher-level play frequently have too many spell slots?



level 18: Double concentration up to 5 times per day, this is a big deal. Probably not gamebreaking at level 18, but damn thats pretty desirable.


Why I saved it for level 18... really nice, but not gamebreaking at that point.



Overall level 1 really feels like you're playing something different, the rest feels a little generic. This would be a prime time to add some sorc only spells, but what I would also like to see is a nod to disciplines (say at 6th level and improved on at 18th), some more flavorful aspects like crystals (replacing standard foci?) and maybe a special metamagic or two (could fit into level 14).

The way I see it, the gameplay difference from being a points-only caster is a pretty frontloaded character idea, that will affect play as it goes on, and "Change all damage to your favorite kind of damage" is a pretty useful metamagic, just not stated as such. I like the idea of mentioning a different kind of foci, but that's also a front-loaded idea... you don't suddenly get special foci later on.

I'll play with it later today, but great feedback, thank you.

Rockphed
2020-04-03, 10:59 AM
You have an effect at level 20 hidden in the effect at level 14 in an ambiguous way. Can you separate them so what happens from level 14-19 is specifically called out and then have a separate entry to explain the change at level 20?

KorvinStarmast
2020-04-03, 11:36 AM
I'd start by making the class INT based. :smallsmile:

Rockphed
2020-04-03, 11:38 AM
I'd start by making the class INT based. :smallsmile:

Psionics is often more about force of personality (i.e. charisma) than learning (i.e. intelligence).

LibraryOgre
2020-04-03, 12:00 PM
You have an effect at level 20 hidden in the effect at level 14 in an ambiguous way. Can you separate them so what happens from level 14-19 is specifically called out and then have a separate entry to explain the change at level 20?

It's not hidden; the level 20 Sorcerous Restoration is a standard Sorcerer Ability, which gives back 4 Sorcery Points after a short rest. Since they're getting 1/4 of their SP after a single short rest, I'm clarifying that this does not remove the 20th level ability, just add to it.


I'd start by making the class INT based. :smallsmile:

A few reasons not to

1) I'm basing this on the Sorcerer; changing the casting stat is big.
2) I don't see psionics as being terribly int-based. 2e was Wisdom, Constitution, and Int, in about that order. With the realignment of Charisma starting in 3e, I think Charisma's force of personality has a good claim on it. Intelligence isn't necessary... it's more about being able to harness your inner strength, not finesse it. Since I tend to equate Intelligence with "Mental Dexterity", having Charisma but little Intelligence is like having a strong-but-clumsy fighter.

KorvinStarmast
2020-04-03, 12:31 PM
1) I'm basing this on the Sorcerer; changing the casting stat is big. I'd be in the camp that says Psion is brain power, not will power. On the other hand, I am a fan of the Psionicist being its own class, not a Sorc sub class, so I understand why you took this in a particular direction.
I do like your "sorcery/spell" point approach.

2) I don't see psionics as being terribly int-based. 2e was Wisdom, Constitution, and Int, in about that order. With the realignment of Charisma starting in 3e, I think Charisma's force of personality has a good claim on it. Intelligence isn't necessary... it's more about being able to harness your inner strength, not finesse it. Since I tend to equate Intelligence with "Mental Dexterity", having Charisma but little Intelligence is like having a strong-but-clumsy fighter.
Originally Psionics were INT > WIS > Cha and no other state contributed.

After all six normal ability categories have been rolled, and the player has selected a character type, player-characters with unmodified scores of 15 or more in their intelligence, wisdom or charisma may elect to check their psionic ability in addition, if they have opted to be human. Psionic ability is determined by rolling percentile dice. A score of 91 or greater indicates that the character has the ability. IIRC, Sorcerers didn't exist in AD&D 2e. (Yes, mixing and matching editions is fine for home brew). In the original game they were the name of a 7th or 8th level magic user. :smallsmile:


Psionics is often more about force of personality (i.e. charisma) than learning (i.e. intelligence). Respectfully disagree. (bolding mine)

APPENDIX I: PSIONICS
{snip} Characters with one or more unmodified intelligence, wisdom or charisma ability scores of 16 or higher might have psionic ability. Whether or not this ability is possessed is then determined by a dice roll using percentile dice.
Any score of 00 (1000/0) indicates the ability exists. For each 1 point of intelligence above 16 add 2% to the dice roll, for each 1 point of wisdom above 16 add 1% to the dice roll, ond for each 1 point of charisma above 16add % to the dice roll (drop all fractions).
Example: A character has intelligence of 17, wisdom of 12, and charisma of 17. There are 2% points to be added to the psionic potential roll because intelligence is 1 above 16, and % point for charisma 1 above 16, total 2% + % = +3. The dice are rolled, and any score of 97 or greater indicates psionic ability exists in the character. As to the SF trope, it is more often pure brain power, but there is certainly a lot of variety in how it is manifested, narratively.

As an aside, there was a spat book for 3.5 that was a decent psionics model. As I did not play 4e, I may have missed a good psionics implementation.

Kane0
2020-04-03, 01:00 PM
I think this is why 3rd ed went with the distinction that Psions are Int and Wilders are Cha.

D&D_Fan
2020-04-03, 03:34 PM
I'd start by making the class INT based.

I agree. Psionics is to my knowledge usually INT based for monsters, and also the existing expirimental wizard psionicist subclass.

also the root Psy means mind, soul, spirit in Latin, and since soul and spirit don't really correspond with any D&D ability score, Intelligence is the clear pick.

You could also make the argument to an extra optional ability score Sanity.

It would also work well with this class thematically. Also it would be more fair for all races since none have an added sanity advantage.

You can make intelligence or sanity a secondary ability, like Int for an Eldritch Knight. Make abilities with the other score, so you need both to be effective, and it is more true to the original model, while still being sorcerous

Witty Username
2020-04-03, 04:41 PM
I think this is why 3rd ed went with the distinction that Psions are Int and Wilders are Cha.

Fair point. I think that 3.5 using 3 class and each represented a different mental score did work for that even if Psychic Warrior was more of a half-psionic.

Overall, the abilities work, I think the sorcerer may need more psychic spells, but that is an easy enough fix.

D&D_Fan
2020-04-04, 09:11 PM
I agree. Psionics is to my knowledge usually INT based for monsters, and also the existing expirimental wizard psionicist subclass.

I actually looked in mtf, and Currently all Psionic Monsters are Wis, or Int.

LibraryOgre
2020-04-06, 12:17 PM
I actually looked in mtf, and Currently all Psionic Monsters are Wis, or Int.

Now there's a strong argument. (I am not being sarcastic; citable evidence does strange things to a librarian's mind).

I may have to rework this into an entire class.

Kane0
2020-04-07, 09:28 PM
I may have to rework this into an entire class.

I didn't want to say that to begin with but I agree.

LibraryOgre
2020-04-08, 09:22 AM
I didn't want to say that to begin with but I agree.

I think it works fine, on a basic level, as a sorcerer subclass, but getting more nuance in your psionicist means it needs to be a class.