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ferrit
2020-04-03, 03:19 AM
I'm writing a little one-shot adventure for my players that takes place in a tavern. The twist is, essentially, that the tavern is secretly staffed by vampires and when night falls, the "lock-in" becomes a very real threat. It's essentially the plot of the film From Dusk Till Dawn. Players have to survive the night until morning.

I've already thought of various store-rooms, bedchambers, cellars and so on that could be barricaded and defended. There would be old, discarded gear and weapons from previously murdered "patrons" stashed around the place which could be used. Improvised weapons like explosive bottles and stakes could be fashioned from alcohol and bar stools.

But I'm struggling with one core problem: What if the players just try to leave?

What if, when the vampires reveal themselves, the players don't run away to safety, they stay in the room and... die?
What if they immediately bolt for the front door and run down the road?

TLDR: If I'm writing a "defend the place" scenario, how do I encourage my players to do that, or at the very least explore around the tavern a bit?

Kaptin Keen
2020-04-03, 04:04 AM
Vampires are faster than people, see perfectly in the dark, have wolves, wings, scent (I dunno - if you say they do, they do), all manner of things. Going outside is clearly suicide.

Just tell them so.

DeTess
2020-04-03, 04:29 AM
One thing you could do is make the outside seem far more threatening than the inside. For example, what if, during the night-time, the Inn gets transported to Ravenloft? The players either risk that most dangerous of planes, or stick it out in the inn in the hope they can exit back at home afterwards. This will require some clear telegraphing of what is happening, but I'm sure you can figure something out. Maybe allow the players to actually leave, only to discover that the outside is really different and dangerous, and that the Inn only appears the sporadically (telegraphing that the inn is the way back).

Pelle
2020-04-03, 05:10 AM
Free beer.

Brother Oni
2020-04-03, 05:42 AM
Is the tavern in a city or an isolated place?

If in the city, have very public signs and town criers for when the PCs first turn up in the day that there is a curfew due to people getting attacked at night (eg by the vampires when they don't get enough people in the tavern), so the PCs have to stay in the tavern after dusk or risk arrest.

So when dusk hits and one of the vampire's human underlings calmly goes and locks the front door without anybody batting an eyelid, the players aren't too alarmed.


If they're in an isolated place, have rain threaten all day, with a storm hitting about mid afternoon. The strong winds cause the front door and windows to bang/rattle, so the underlings bar the shutters and lock the front door to stop the wind getting in.


As for getting them out of the room, have a number of other NPC victims in the room, with the vampires attacking them first. If they don't take the hint and retreat to somewhere more secure, then they deserve to be next on the menu.

Another possibility for an isolated inn - have it prone to infrequent bandit attacks. In addition to having an enclosed courtyard with a high outer wall and a fortified gate, none of the ground floor rooms will have windows, which also stops the players simply heading into a side room, hopping out a window and running down the road (as they have to clear the wall or get through the gate first).

Berenger
2020-04-03, 07:04 AM
But I'm struggling with one core problem: What if the players just try to leave?

If you want an enemy to accept an unfavourable battle, threaten something they can't abandon. Maybe have a hostage somewhere in the belly of the dungeons under the tavern that will be sacrificed at some point in the near future? If they are murder hobos without emotional ties to people, steal someones Dagger +1, they won't abandon that.

Before the fighting start, do the vampires have access to something like a D&D 3.5 Fascination (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fascinated) ability?

Ken Murikumo
2020-04-03, 07:15 AM
Simply lock the doors behind them? How about asking them nicely not to leave?

Alternatively, the door disappears and if they try to smash their way through, tell them the walls & windows are made out of DM-says-no (i'm sure this is a party favorite!)

But seriously though; As mentioned above, changing dimensions might work. Going straight to Ravenloft or whatever might be a tad too far. Just the make the interior of the tavern port to an extra dimensional space. Like, just a void. Describe the view out the windows as "unnaturally dark". If they open a door or window describe it as an infinite void of darkness. Hell, have some red-shirt try to escape out a window and just fall into nothingness and make sure the players see this happen. so they undoubtedly know not to leave.

Heavenblade
2020-04-03, 07:18 AM
Maybe the city around the tavern is having lockdown in night hours because recently there have been disappereances...related to the vampires of course
that way you can set up a mini mystery

Xervous
2020-04-03, 07:39 AM
The city/town has a sizable vampire presence. The catch is that the ones in the tavern like to play with their meals. Older than your grandfather’s grandfather they’ve resorted to odd rules, restrictions and games to get more enjoyment out of their feasts lest they grow stagnant in their ways.

The vampires that roam the streets? No rules, party would be rolling the dice on certain death. The ones in the tavern? They offer up some promise of a reward for those who play along and survive.

Zarrgon
2020-04-03, 11:14 AM
You could:

OOC: Straight up tell the players that the Tavern IS the adventure. Simply put, if they choose to have their characters run away, they are in effect saying they don't want to play the game. And then everyone can just go home.

Negative Reinforcement: Lock the characters in. Maybe:

1.The whole tavern is a animated object that keeps people in as it's controlled by the lead vampire.
2.The whole tavern is a Mimic (a Structure Mimic) working for/with the vampires
3.The whole tavern is a Vampire minic, so it's a member of the vampire group.... (or a ghost or haunt)
4.A lock/arcane lock effect locks down the whole tavern
5.A sphere of force covers the whole tavern
6.The tavern zips to another place...Ethereal Plane or Negative Material Plane..

Positive Reinforcement: Give them a reason to stay

Big treasure, big reward and the players will stay and fight. You will need a fairly big one to make the players want to stay, but that should be no problem.

LibraryOgre
2020-04-03, 12:23 PM
False exits and wizard locks.

So, those shutters on the outside of the building? Those aren't actually windows, except in maybe one room... they're just shutters over blank wall. That exit door? It leads to the basement.

The doors that you can't actually avoid having? Those are Wizard Locked, or something similar. Once the sun goes down, the place shuts tighter than a miser's wallet.

Aneurin
2020-04-03, 12:36 PM
Put the tavern in the middle of nowhere. It's just a stop over on a remote, seldom-traveled road.

If the players want to leave, well, tell them plainly that what they're doing is extremely unlikely to result in them being better off - there's nowhere to run to they can reach before dawn, there won't be travelers on the road, and they're going to be hunted by vampires across open country, where the vampires can more or less attack how and when they choose and can come at them from any direction. If they insist on committing suicide after this has been made explicit to them, then that's really their decision - same as it always is when the PCs decide they want to die, rather than consider other options. Who knows, they might pull it off.

You can also hash it out a bit in your scene descriptions. Mention that the walls are thick, and the doors are sturdy and so on. It won't necessarily sink in, but it might.


If they make bad decisions, all you can do is let them feel the consequences of those decisions, unfortunately. Even if that does mean their characters die - or especially if. This is horror, after all.

ferrit
2020-04-03, 04:19 PM
If in the city, have very public signs and town criers for when the PCs first turn up in the day that there is a curfew due to people getting attacked at night (eg by the vampires when they don't get enough people in the tavern), so the PCs have to stay in the tavern after dusk or risk arrest.

So when dusk hits and one of the vampire's human underlings calmly goes and locks the front door without anybody batting an eyelid, the players aren't too alarmed.

This is really good.


If they're in an isolated place, have rain threaten all day, with a storm hitting about mid afternoon. The strong winds cause the front door and windows to bang/rattle, so the underlings bar the shutters and lock the front door to stop the wind getting in.

This is even better.


Another possibility for an isolated inn - have it prone to infrequent bandit attacks. In addition to having an enclosed courtyard with a high outer wall and a fortified gate, none of the ground floor rooms will have windows, which also stops the players simply heading into a side room, hopping out a window and running down the road (as they have to clear the wall or get through the gate first).

Perfect. I’m planning on asking the players to all make cleric characters for this one-shot (they’ve been avoiding that class like the plague in the campaign). Having them meet some wandering skeletons “on the road” in the storm and take shelter at the only tavern nearby gets the scene set pretty nicely, messes with their expectations, and perhaps the vampires even raised them to lure travellers into safety in the first place. Double motivations of not only escaping themselves but also staying put and stamping out the menace preying on others, first.


The city/town has a sizable vampire presence. The catch is that the ones in the tavern like to play with their meals. Older than your grandfather’s grandfather they’ve resorted to odd rules, restrictions and games to get more enjoyment out of their feasts lest they grow stagnant in their ways.

Love the idea of vampires playing with their food. Maybe they enjoy leaving little clues scattered around on what is about to happen and placing bets on how long it takes for the prey to work it out? It’s about setting a scene..

Could be an interesting twist on the classic “tavern activities” like arm wresting or playing cards, with hit points instead of gold pieces on the line, before the actual fighting part of the adventure starts.

Or perhaps it becomes a sadistic game of hide-and-seek... encouraging the players to get a short head start exploring the various rooms and cellars/dungeons of the tavern before the vampires begin the chase.

Any other good ideas for what you’re describing, because that sounds loads more fun than my initial pitch!

jayem
2020-04-03, 04:38 PM
...
But I'm struggling with one core problem: What if the players just try to leave?

What if, when the vampires reveal themselves, the players don't run away to safety, they stay in the room and... die?
What if they immediately bolt for the front door and run down the road?

Related to the hostage plan. If there is a mysterious scream that might get them moving out of their room and exploring for the source and even be separated before the revelation.

Quertus
2020-04-03, 06:29 PM
So, in D&D at least, vampires can ghost through porous walls - and, in their own prepared hunting ground inn, you can guarantee that that's just one of the home turf advantages that any sane vampires will have given themselves. So, no, leaving does not innately seem suicidal compared to staying.

Sapphire Guard
2020-04-03, 08:33 PM
Have the vampires announce the 'rules' when they reveal themselves, they're playing a game on purpose to make the hunt interesting.

Among the rules:

If you leave the inn in the night, all bets are off, they stop playing games and come after you all out.

If you survive until dawn within the inn, you're allowed to leave peacefully.

If the players try to fight immediately, the vamps mist away through the walls, because that's no fun, they want to drag things out with ambushes and tricks.

There are things like safe rooms the vampires don't enter for the fun of it... but if the players try to game the system and stay there forever, they lose that protection.

The more powerful vampires do nothing at first, they may take action further towards the dawn if the party acquits themselves well.

Grod_The_Giant
2020-04-03, 08:33 PM
OOC: Straight up tell the players that the Tavern IS the adventure. Simply put, if they choose to have their characters run away, they are in effect saying they don't want to play the game. And then everyone can just go home.
Honestly, this. You should certainly provide some sort of in-setting justification, and there have been plenty of good suggestions, but horror really doesn't work without player buy-in. You don't have to get specific, but a general "hey, I'm planning on running a horror one-shot, does that sound fun?" will make sure everyone's got the same kind of tropes in mind. (Doubly important if this is just an interlude in an ongoing campaign where the characters are generally badasses, because they will try to stand and fight)

False God
2020-04-03, 08:48 PM
The tavern shifts into the "Dark Realms" (ie: the place where Barovia and other realms are) every night. It's basically a giant lobster-trap for humanoids. "Running outside and down the road" is guaranteed to be FAR FAR worse than staying inside.

Xuc Xac
2020-04-04, 12:48 AM
If the scenario is based on "From Dusk 'til Dawn", why not just use the same reason as in the movie?

If they stay in the tavern, there are walls for cover. At worst, they can get against a wall and only worry about fighting in a 180° arc. If they get in a corner, they only have 90° to worry about. Outside the tavern, it's dark, they're vulnerable on all sides (including from above if the vampires can fly). There are no defensible bottlenecks in the great outdoors.

Quertus
2020-04-04, 06:43 AM
The more I think about it, the more I realize that, depending on the system, the smart answer may well be to…

1) especially if there's only one entrance, run out, shut that door, burn the place to the ground.

2) hole up in their starting room.

3) run away to "anywhere but here", because anywhere else is at least not "the vampire's prepared hunting grounds".

4) run away in a random direction (because tracking is hard/slow, and time/sunlight are on the PCs' side).

Yet, somehow, you want the players / PCs to take none of these (situationally/system-based) wiser courses of action (while running "team wisdom", might I add), and instead… what? Adventure through hostile territory, and then hole up in a room? :smallconfused: I am reminded of my old axiom: "bad gaming experiences usually start with the GM wanting something". :smallannoyed:

So, IMO, the question is, what is the minimum level of "contrived" necessary to produce the maximum level of "telegraphed" that the wisest course of action is to remain on-site, but not remain stationary?

Please try not to laugh too hard as I attempt to ape a common style to give my 2¢ on the matter. All ratings purely subjective based on my personal experiences, YMMV.

Discussing things OOC This is in general a really good answer to most things, which is part of why I listed it first. But it depends on the group (and your delivery) as to whether this is the best thing ever, takes all the mystery and fun out of it or completely ruins the game. For example, just getting buy-in on "horror story", and assuming that that will solve all your problems? Yeah, no. If both sides make such assumptions, and have different ideas of what makes a good horror story / what the tropes of horror stories are, then you've just ruined the game by going OOC. Unless your intended actions for the party are the *only* possible interpretation of horror tropes, *and* you're running a campy game with a 4th-wall-breaking NPC/DMPC ("we can't leave the building - every character in every horror movie who tries to leave the set dies!"), OOC is not a "one and done" answer. Also, note that, by itself, it doesn't solve the core problem of the desired game involving unwise choices - it simply mandates that the PCs hold the idiot ball.

We're not in Kansas any more: I must admit, this can be really good. It would deserve a higher rating, were it not for the sheer number of potential problems: it only keeps them from going / staying outside, and only to the extent that it is telegraphed; it can lead some players to think that the new world (rather than the vampire attack) is the adventure; it can feel rather arbitrary and heavy-handed; it begs the question, "is there someone / something here powerful enough to pull this off?"; it lends itself to world-building issues later in other games (especially if a player asks to make a knowledge check to know of random "free travel to / from X plane" - especially if Ravenloft is used). Now, if you look at that list, and respond to all those with "not a problem" or "I love it!", then this can be a good answer. Tbh, it's one I would likely use myself.

Already investigating IMO, the best way to motivate the PCs to investigate the inn is if they are already investigating a related phenomenon, and, with the vampire attack, suddenly realize that this inn is, in fact, part of their investigation. It's an actual "carrot" approach to "good" behavior, that doesn't feel arbitrary or heavy-handed.

A higher (level) power A strong carrot to getting them out of their starting room is for them to know that there is one or more strong (possibly even higher-level) NPCs also staying at the inn. They may feel that their chances of survival are greater if they team up with such allies. Be aware, though, that this can easily turn into bad scenarios like bad DMPC, story time, or contrived loss. And it only addresses getting them out of their starting room; it does not encourage good behavior after that first step.

NPCs to protect If there are other people staying at the inn, the PCs - especially if they are good Clerics - may be motivated to try to protect the flock. In fact, the action could start with a scream from one of the other patrons being attacked, motivating them to leave their room to investigate. Another good carrot, at least for leaving their room. It depends on the setup and the NPCs as to how much it discourages "bad" behavior thereafter, and how contrived it feels.

Red shirts Related to having NPCs to protect, you can have the party lose some of their flock every time that they make a bad decision. Stayed in your room? Vampires broke in, and ate some of your followers. Tried to leave? Vampires were waiting in ambush, and ate part of your flock. Done right, it can even produce feels; done wrong, and it's a punitive railroad.

Should I continue building the guide to "making Wise PCs do dumb things - motivating the fly to remain in (and dig deeper into) the spider's web"?

Saintheart
2020-04-04, 07:53 AM
One approach might be to just make the lock-in a bit larger so it at least preserves the illusion that the players can do what they want. There's a 3.5 module, Last Breaths in Ashenport, which has a similar "nice job wandering onto the Children Of The Corn set" feel to it, albeit it's a slower windup and it's really a palimpsest of a certain H.P. Lovecraft story. Not suggesting you run that instead, just maybe take a gander through it and see if you can adapt it for your needs?

PintoTown
2020-04-04, 10:12 AM
It all depends on your players, but most I’ve encountered don’t appreciate channelling plots. I would have the environmental hazards prepared as a back up, but would initially make an effort to give characters personal or overplot reasons to want/need to stay regardless of how bad things got (again, based on playing styles).
If the choice to stay is (thinly veiled as) their own, it adds far more to the experience.
I would use ooc as a last resort. Sometimes you absolutely need to, but the player immersion takes a hit.

jayem
2020-04-04, 10:58 AM
One approach might be to just make the lock-in a bit larger so it at least preserves the illusion that the players can do what they want. There's a 3.5 module, Last Breaths in Ashenport, which has a similar "nice job wandering onto the Children Of The Corn set" feel to it, albeit it's a slower windup and it's really a palimpsest of a certain H.P. Lovecraft story. Not suggesting you run that instead, just maybe take a gander through it and see if you can adapt it for your needs?

That strikes me as being a good idea,you can always make the first encounter a warning to make them possibly decide to head back in.
You can sketch out the road and woods quite nicely quickly (and it also means you can even use it in 'daytime' to see if they can get away). Possibly even before they enter the tavern have them be travelling out just too late and have one encounter which they can easily win once! (that encounter might even organically lead to an external pressure anyway, wolf bite or vampire healing or ...) Before hopefully making it to the tavern (if instead they decide to fight their way back home, you just break out the leave the tavern campaign early)

Related a similar approach makes staying in the room a non-optimum option, sure you can just stay in the room but getting properly ready to go out will take till mid-day, so that leaves you doing the same again or a night in the woods.

The advantage of this is you don't have to come up with excuses why the players choice is 'wrong', everything more or less has the consequences you'd expect and warned them about.

ferrit
2020-04-04, 11:52 AM
Some really great ideas here, thanks for the feedback. I'll address a few of the major points, then outline essentially what I have in mind.


Have the vampires announce the 'rules' when they reveal themselves, they're playing a game on purpose to make the hunt interesting.

This is good, it sets the "premise" of the one-shot within the bounds of the story rather than me having to do it OOC.


The tavern shifts into the "Dark Realms" (ie: the place where Barovia and other realms are) every night. It's basically a giant lobster-trap for humanoids. "Running outside and down the road" is guaranteed to be FAR FAR worse than staying inside.

Less enthusiastic about this option; if only because knowing my players, an exciting new location means they will feel obliged to run around exploring it, meaning I would have to "step in" to contain them. I think setting the scene as an isolated, middle-of-nowhere location is the best option. You can run, but there's nowhere to run to.


The more I think about it, the more I realize that, depending on the system, the smart answer may well be toÂ…

1) especially if there's only one entrance, run out, shut that door, burn the place to the ground.

2) hole up in their starting room.

3) run away to "anywhere but here", because anywhere else is at least not "the vampire's prepared hunting grounds".

4) run away in a random direction (because tracking is hard/slow, and time/sunlight are on the PCs' side).

[...snip]



These (and the rest of your comment) are excellent points, and I appreciate you trying to "break" the premise to highlight where the holes are. Off the bat, it's D&D 5E and probably FR (because that's where our campaign is and it involves less up-front world-building).

From your colour-coded suggestions, and the ideas from a few others in this thread, I'm concluding that the best option is some combination of presenting a threat the players can investigate, outlining the premise of the adventure in-character (villain monologue), and some NPCs to initially kick them into a direction.


It all depends on your players, but most IÂ’ve encountered donÂ’t appreciate channelling plots. I would have the environmental hazards prepared as a back up, but would initially make an effort to give characters personal or overplot reasons to want/need to stay regardless of how bad things got (again, based on playing styles).
If the choice to stay is (thinly veiled as) their own, it adds far more to the experience.
I would use ooc as a last resort. Sometimes you absolutely need to, but the player immersion takes a hit.

Solid, good points to keep in mind.


You can always make the first encounter a warning to make them possibly decide to head back in.
You can sketch out the road and woods quite nicely quickly (and it also means you can even use it in 'daytime' to see if they can get away). Possibly even before they enter the tavern have them be travelling out just too late and have one encounter which they can easily win once! (that encounter might even organically lead to an external pressure anyway, wolf bite or vampire healing or ...) Before hopefully making it to the tavern (if instead they decide to fight their way back home, you just break out the leave the tavern campaign early)

Found myself thinking the same thing. Some initial encounter both to start the characters off with each other, but also to push them towards the tavern as the next local move (for resting, healing, safety, etc).

---

So with regards to the narrative structure, something like this:

Setup: Players are all diverse clerics of different faiths on their way to some kind of annual gathering of clergy to debate theological differences.

1. Players are travelling together down a road in the middle of nowhere (let's say in a wagon or similar) and get ambushed by some ghouls, zombies, or the like. Getting dark. Storm coming in. Heavy rain. Howls in the distance. Horses are dead. But they see a tavern in the distance.

Going from some advice earlier, perhaps the tavern (and surrounding buildings, stable, etc) is almost fortified with a thick stone wall surrounding it. Old keep converted into an inn, or something such.

2. Entering the tavern, there are no locals, instead there are several clerics already taking shelter from the incoming storm. There's an interlude where the players are free to roleplay, interact with some NPCs, play some tavern games, boast of (or defend) their deity's prowess, and so on. As dusk arrives, tavern servants eventually decide to shutter the windows and reinforce (lock) the door, to keep the storm and rumoured undead out.

3. One of the NPC clerics will stubbornly attempt to leave by force, but is instantly slain by a vampire who appears out of nowhere. Looking around the players will see the barkeep polishing mugs, the bard leaning in the corner, the cook walking out of the kitchen door... all staring intently at the players with fangs clearly visible. The "owner" of the tavern will appear from mist in the centre of the common room and explain "the rules"; nobody gets to leave until dawn, but let's play a game, hidden around the inn are some magical items, you have an hour's head start... go, and so on.

4. Surviving NPCs immediately scatter in various directions; one runs down into the cellar, one runs upstairs towards the bedrooms, one runs into the store-rooms, etc. Each area of the tavern will have some loot (weapons or trinkets that could be useful in a fight) and an NPC they previously met to rescue/team up with.

5. Depending on which direction/room they flee towards, and explore/barricade, they'll be pursued and attacked by a specific vampire spawn (the "cook" will attack the kitchens, the "bard" will ambush the private-hire rooms, etc). Might periodically throw some human thralls after them too, giving the characters somebody to try to reason with if they put points into charisma-based skills, but also to keep momentum of the hide-and-seek going.

6. TLDR: players defeat the respective underling vampires, get some sweet magic loot from each part of the tavern they explore, and just before dawn the elder vampire itself will strike when they're exhausted and tight on resources.

7. If the players had saved any NPCs from different areas during the night, they'll have allies in the final fight. If the players had found and destroyed the hidden coffins during the night, the elder vampire will have fewer allies.

Any major issues with it? Too complicated or too simple? Too much railroading? Looking for it to take around 6-8 hours with Level 5 characters.

Sapphire Guard
2020-04-04, 12:17 PM
Sounds good to me. One question is what if your PCs all decide to get drunk in the early part of the evening?

ferrit
2020-04-04, 01:05 PM
Sounds good to me. One question is what if your PCs all decide to get drunk in the early part of the evening?

Depends on how they want to act it out! For the sake of the narrative, let's say that the vampires find blood with a high alcohol level to be an acquired taste and suggest they "dry their friend out a little". Or if the player wishes to fully lean into it, perhaps their character (with drunken disadvantage to perception/insight rolls) doesn't even fully grasp the situation and believes this to be a gross misunderstanding that they will attempt to diplomatically navigate.

Or, if the players persistently decide to drink themselves blackout drunk, perhaps they just wake up after some time in the cellars, surrounded by bodies, and it turns into an escape room scenario. /shrug

Brother Oni
2020-04-04, 04:55 PM
Going from some advice earlier, perhaps the tavern (and surrounding buildings, stable, etc) is almost fortified with a thick stone wall surrounding it. Old keep converted into an inn, or something such.

I was thinking more of a fortified coaching inn, rather than a converted keep (which tends to be a single building).

This example is probably a bit overkill:
http://cdn.obsidianportal.com/assets/167435/Blathe_pic.jpg

This is pretty much what I was thinking of (and there's even a floor plan):
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/07/84/720784bbef561d586ec3c56d47df31f6.jpg

Unfortunately, all the original UK coaching inns with their walls and other protective features have long since gone (most of them were in Cumbria, due to the frequent Scottish raiders), so I can't find a picture of a real one.

There's a couple of nice Warhammer Fantasy ones, but their architecture is a bit too anachronistic for Forgotten Realms.


Depends on how they want to act it out!

I'm not overly familiar with the FR pantheon, but would some of them require their clerics to have dietary restrictions? If they haven't picked a god, then give them one that doesn't subscribe to over-drinking. If they follow the proscription, make sure to give them role playing points for not getting hammered. :smalltongue:

Edit: Forgot, this is a one shot, so rather than roleplaying XP bonuses, their advantage is not having dice penalties for drunkeness when the vampires decide to attack.

Quertus
2020-04-04, 07:43 PM
So with regards to the narrative structure, something like this:

Setup: Players are all diverse clerics of different faiths on their way to some kind of annual gathering of clergy to debate theological differences.

1. Players are travelling together down a road in the middle of nowhere (let's say in a wagon or similar) and get ambushed by some ghouls, zombies, or the like. Getting dark. Storm coming in. Heavy rain. Howls in the distance. Horses are dead. But they see a tavern in the distance.

Going from some advice earlier, perhaps the tavern (and surrounding buildings, stable, etc) is almost fortified with a thick stone wall surrounding it. Old keep converted into an inn, or something such.

2. Entering the tavern, there are no locals, instead there are several clerics already taking shelter from the incoming storm. There's an interlude where the players are free to roleplay, interact with some NPCs, play some tavern games, boast of (or defend) their deity's prowess, and so on. As dusk arrives, tavern servants eventually decide to shutter the windows and reinforce (lock) the door, to keep the storm and rumoured undead out.

3. One of the NPC clerics will stubbornly attempt to leave by force, but is instantly slain by a vampire who appears out of nowhere. Looking around the players will see the barkeep polishing mugs, the bard leaning in the corner, the cook walking out of the kitchen door... all staring intently at the players with fangs clearly visible. The "owner" of the tavern will appear from mist in the centre of the common room and explain "the rules"; nobody gets to leave until dawn, but let's play a game, hidden around the inn are some magical items, you have an hour's head start... go, and so on.

4. Surviving NPCs immediately scatter in various directions; one runs down into the cellar, one runs upstairs towards the bedrooms, one runs into the store-rooms, etc. Each area of the tavern will have some loot (weapons or trinkets that could be useful in a fight) and an NPC they previously met to rescue/team up with.

5. Depending on which direction/room they flee towards, and explore/barricade, they'll be pursued and attacked by a specific vampire spawn (the "cook" will attack the kitchens, the "bard" will ambush the private-hire rooms, etc). Might periodically throw some human thralls after them too, giving the characters somebody to try to reason with if they put points into charisma-based skills, but also to keep momentum of the hide-and-seek going.

6. TLDR: players defeat the respective underling vampires, get some sweet magic loot from each part of the tavern they explore, and just before dawn the elder vampire itself will strike when they're exhausted and tight on resources.

7. If the players had saved any NPCs from different areas during the night, they'll have allies in the final fight. If the players had found and destroyed the hidden coffins during the night, the elder vampire will have fewer allies.

Any major issues with it? Too complicated or too simple? Too much railroading? Looking for it to take around 6-8 hours with Level 5 characters.

1) only word of caution is "undead attack" + "fortified keep" = "assume the keep is evil, firebomb the keep" to some players. Or even a suspicious "oh really… Detect Evil" may throw off your game. And Paladin characters get that for free - any of them on this religious pilgrimage?

2) "there are no locals"? I don't think that I would explicitly call that out. Make it implicit, in telling who is there as a patron.

3) Ignoring the potential unavoidable death, is "appearing out of nowhere" something a 5e FR vampire can normally do? Actually… just to be sure… is 1-shotting this Cleric something a 5e FR vampire could normally be expected to do / will this NPCs level relative to the PCs be clearly telegraphed / will this vampire be capable of 1-shotting the PCs, too?

3b) although it might be interesting for one or more of the vampires to stare at (one or more of) the PCs intently / meaningfully, rather than just starting at all the meat bags equally, it would set a different tone to print out creepy pictures of the vampires, and have them thereby stare at the players by proxy :smallwink:

5) hide and seek? I'm not feeling it.

6) low on resources? this depends entirely on what time of day each Cleric gets to pray for their spells. (And, in 5e, that's…?)

7) I like the "destroy coffins to reduce difficulty" angle. How long does it take vampires to reform? Keep in mind, well-timed deaths could have similar difficulty-reducing results.

Sense Motive: why the game? Gather Information: who all is playing / is the instajib vampire playing? Diplomacy: can't we all just get along?

ferrit
2020-04-05, 01:02 AM
This is pretty much what I was thinking of (and there's even a floor plan):
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/07/84/720784bbef561d586ec3c56d47df31f6.jpg


This is wonderful, thank you. I'm just conscious of the fact that there should ideally be some kind of defined perimeter for the area, so this definitely works.



I'm not overly familiar with the FR pantheon, but would some of them require their clerics to have dietary restrictions? If they haven't picked a god, then give them one that doesn't subscribe to over-drinking. If they follow the proscription, make sure to give them role playing points for not getting hammered. :smalltongue:

Giving the players inspiration/advantage for roleplaying out following the dogma or tenets of whichever god they picked to follow is something I had absolutely been keeping in mind! :)


1) only word of caution is "undead attack" + "fortified keep" = "assume the keep is evil, firebomb the keep" to some players. Or even a suspicious "oh really… Detect Evil" may throw off your game. And Paladin characters get that for free - any of them on this religious pilgrimage?

Even though the scenario would be "everybody play clerics", I would likely allow a couple of levels of multiclass to give players some variety. So there's a chance. Now, Detect Evil doesn't necessarily mean "there's undead", but I concede the point that it could raise suspicions.

I was hoping the conceit of the surrounding countryside being harassed by roaming ghouls (or the like, as illustrated by the opening encounter) would essentially leave some residue smell around the place to throw the scent off if the players decide to throw out a bunch of "detect undead" abilities.


2) "there are no locals"? I don't think that I would explicitly call that out. Make it implicit, in telling who is there as a patron.

Yep, that's fair. Point being there are other diverse and interesting NPC clerics for the players to interact with, not just local drunks.


3) Ignoring the potential unavoidable death, is "appearing out of nowhere" something a 5e FR vampire can normally do? Actually… just to be sure… is 1-shotting this Cleric something a 5e FR vampire could normally be expected to do / will this NPCs level relative to the PCs be clearly telegraphed / will this vampire be capable of 1-shotting the PCs, too?

Vampires (not the weaker Vampire Spawn) can shapechange into mist at will. One-shotting a Level 5 NPC is unlikely, but a true vampire is a very difficult encounter for a party of Level 5 characters and I need this to be made fairly obvious to the players. As I'm writing this, I'm keenly aware that the party could just decide to rush attack the vampires there and then, which would be suicide. Would need a way to dissuade them from doing this (or have a backup plan to deal with the consequences), I'm just not sure what it is yet.


5) hide and seek? I'm not feeling it.
Hmm. Flawed premise or personal feeling? How can it be improved? Essentially I would like the characters to be motivated stay within the area to 'play along', but also essentially 'explore the dungeon' and not hole up in a single room. Calling it hide and seek is shorthand, but there are elements of a chase and a treasure hunt too.


6) low on resources? this depends entirely on what time of day each Cleric gets to pray for their spells. (And, in 5e, that's…?)
Spell slots don't refresh unless the character performs a long rest (8 hours), which they would not have the opportunity to do.


7) I like the "destroy coffins to reduce difficulty" angle. How long does it take vampires to reform? Keep in mind, well-timed deaths could have similar difficulty-reducing results.
2 hours. So if they defeat one of the vampire "mini-bosses" and it turns into mist seeping back towards its coffin, there's an opportunity to follow it through the tavern (into say, the cellar) and stake it for good.


Sense Motive: why the game? Gather Information: who all is playing / is the instajib vampire playing? Diplomacy: can't we all just get along?
- I personally really like the "playing with their food" angle; intelligent beings who live for centuries need to entertain themselves somehow. Giving their victims hope makes the hunt more satisfying.
- The vampire spawn would "have a go" first, with the elder vampire taking a back seat observing, ostensibly to "enforce the rules" but in observing they can slowly learn the strengths and weaknesses of the players before confronting them itself.
- I'm open to the various (living) servants and lackeys being possible routes for persuasion or diplomacy, to make the various encounters easier. But the vampires themselves? No.

Brother Oni
2020-04-05, 03:17 AM
1) only word of caution is "undead attack" + "fortified keep" = "assume the keep is evil, firebomb the keep" to some players. Or even a suspicious "oh really… Detect Evil" may throw off your game. And Paladin characters get that for free - any of them on this religious pilgrimage?

If the party decide to go all murder-hobo, then getting counterattacked by the NPC clerics (who are clearly of good aligned faiths) and the inn's guards should put a pause to it.

The main way to not make them go all murder-hobo are the name of the inn and its sign outside.


Yep, that's fair. Point being there are other diverse and interesting NPC clerics for the players to interact with, not just local drunks.

This one is easy to address - give all the coaching inn staff a livery; the lower ranking staff (e.g. the grooms, serving staff) would have a full uniform with the device on it, while the more senior ones (barkeep, head cook, etc) could be more relaxed in the colours or clothing style, but otherwise be easily identifiable as staff.

It might be entertaining to tie this back into your main campaign when the players with their 'proper' characters see an inn with the same heraldic symbol and they're instantly on their guard, even though it's a perfectly normal inn.

Don't forget to give your inn a name and a sign. The sign itself could be the device that marks all the staff (e.g. The Black Dog Inn, with a stylised large black dog).

Since you're also going for the 'plays with their food' angle, the inn name and sign could be a clue that there are vampires, e.g. The Black Hart Inn, with a sign of a stylised black stag with a spear piercing his breast.
If the players ask, the tavern keeper spins them a story about the original founder of the inn was a hunter who accidentally killed an animal favoured of the gods and as penance, retired from hunting and set up an inn dedicated for helping people on their pilgrimages (clerics especially, thus why the party and so many other NPC clerics are at the inn).

The gruesome sign was a constant reminder to the hunter-now-landlord of his misdeeds and in the remote place where the inn is found, it has become over time to be a comforting sign (being in such a remote place, the guards of the Black Hart Inn keep the roads near the inn clear of critters), thus the subsequent owners kept it.

I wouldn't go too pun-ny though with the name though - your vampires have class. :smallbiggrin:

Quertus
2020-04-05, 04:34 AM
If the party decide to go all murder-hobo, then getting counterattacked by the NPC clerics (who are clearly of good aligned faiths) and the inn's guards should put a pause to it.

The main way to not make them go all murder-hobo are the name of the inn and its sign outside.



This one is easy to address - give all the coaching inn staff a livery; the lower ranking staff (e.g. the grooms, serving staff) would have a full uniform with the device on it,

Since you're also going for the 'plays with their food' angle, the inn name and sign could be a clue that there are vampires, e.g. The Black Hart Inn, with a sign of a stylised black stag with a spear piercing his breast.

The gruesome sign

This is exactly the kind of thing I was hinting at, yes. Seeing an "everything is normal, no need to nuke the site from orbit" scene may be a good thing. However, that may stand at odds with the fortified nature of the place (if it looks like it was recently reinforced) or against the setting (if it had been raining). As it stands, clever PCs may question the wisdom of staff visible from outside with undead roaming the region.


Now, Detect Evil doesn't necessarily mean "there's undead", but I concede the point that it could raise suspicions.

I don't know 5e; in 3e, a) 40% of the population is evil, so no biggie if the staff are; however, b) evil Clerics/outsiders and undead are *very noticeable* with detect evil, so that's big (are any of the PC/NPC Clerics evil, btw?). Also, Knowledge:Religion (which no Clerics at my tables ever take :smallconfused:) can identify undead on sight, so… subterfuge is hard. How's 5e handle these things?


I was hoping the conceit of the surrounding countryside being harassed by roaming ghouls (or the like, as illustrated by the opening encounter) would essentially leave some residue smell around the place to throw the scent off if the players decide to throw out a bunch of "detect undead" abilities.

… again, I don't know 5e, but I would call shenanigans on that in earlier editions.


Vampires (not the weaker Vampire Spawn) can shapechange into mist at will. One-shotting a Level 5 NPC is unlikely, but a true vampire is a very difficult encounter for a party of Level 5 characters and I need this to be made fairly obvious to the players.

Agreed. If you aren't going the OOC route, it's definitely good to telegraph the difficulty of the boss fight - both to generate the horror vibe, and especially to prevent a suicidal rush.


As I'm writing this, I'm keenly aware that the party could just decide to rush attack the vampires there and then, which would be suicide. Would need a way to dissuade them from doing this (or have a backup plan to deal with the consequences), I'm just not sure what it is yet.


Hmm. Flawed premise or personal feeling? How can it be improved? Essentially I would like the characters to be motivated stay within the area to 'play along', but also essentially 'explore the dungeon' and not hole up in a single room. Calling it hide and seek is shorthand, but there are elements of a chase and a treasure hunt too.

I'm picturing humans and dwarves in full plate stomping around on squeaky floorboards, not stealthy ninja halflings and kinder Monks.

Also… most inn layouts (haven't studied the map earlier in the thread) are kinda… filled with sectioned off areas and dead ends. You leave the common room through door A, and the vampires *know* that you're in room 1-17, and cannot get to rooms 18-64 without coming back through a checkpoint. And they can probably leave 1 vampire in a hallway to lock the party down while a second vampire "searches" the rooms (vs the party's -NI to hide) 1 at a time.

That's what I meant by it not feeling like "hide and seek". So, just a naming thing.


- I personally really like the "playing with their food" angle; intelligent beings who live for centuries need to entertain themselves somehow. Giving their victims hope makes the hunt more satisfying.
- The vampire spawn would "have a go" first, with the elder vampire taking a back seat observing, ostensibly to "enforce the rules" but in observing they can slowly learn the strengths and weaknesses of the players before confronting them itself.

Fun? Sure - I do that with many things, like videogames. War of attrition? Quite reasonable. Learn about the PCs? How?

-----

What are the NPC Clerics' plans? Sure, you know where they run first… then what?

-----

There's a chance that one or more of the PCs will "go nova" on the ghoul fight - and, at least in earlier editions, I'd expect my clerics to have already used their "day" buffs. So, played honest, there's a potential vast difference for potential start conditions.

ferrit
2020-04-05, 06:21 AM
Great feedback. Getting into the nitty-gritty details of the scenario here, but I'm learning a lot about the possible holes and issues through it so that's good. Appreciate the criticisms.


I don't know 5e; in 3e, a) 40% of the population is evil, so no biggie if the staff are; however, b) evil Clerics/outsiders and undead are *very noticeable* with detect evil, so that's big (are any of the PC/NPC Clerics evil, btw?). Also, Knowledge:Religion (which no Clerics at my tables ever take :smallconfused:) can identify undead on sight, soÂ… subterfuge is hard. How's 5e handle these things?

5E: Paladins have the class ability of Divine Sense: "Until the end of your next turn, you know the location of any celestial, fiend, or undead within 60 feet of you that is not behind total cover.". The spell, Detect Evil And Good, reads similarly: "For the duration, you know if there is an aberration, celestial, elemental, fey, fiend, or undead within 30 feet of you, as well as where the creature is located. The spell can penetrate most barriers, but it is blocked by 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt."

To my knowledge, there is no method of magically detecting the alignment of regular living humanoids in 5E.

Notably, neither of these effects penetrate solid matter. So if the players are suspicious enough in the common room of the inn, surrounded by non-hostile npcs, to use limited resource abilities for detecting undead... they would detect nothing if the vampires are simply standing behind a wall.

But if they are detected, perhaps they simply announce themselves a little earlier than planned? Or, if the players suddenly realises that they're surrounded by vampires, the vampires patiently and curiously wait and see how they react or if they decide to play along? "Ah, leaving so soon? Why not come back inside for another drink? No, we insist." and so on.


I'm picturing humans and dwarves in full plate stomping around on squeaky floorboards, not stealthy ninja halflings and kinder Monks.

AlsoÂ… most inn layouts (haven't studied the map earlier in the thread) are kindaÂ… filled with sectioned off areas and dead ends. You leave the common room through door A, and the vampires *know* that you're in room 1-17, and cannot get to rooms 18-64 without coming back through a checkpoint. And they can probably leave 1 vampire in a hallway to lock the party down while a second vampire "searches" the rooms (vs the party's -NI to hide) 1 at a time.

That's what I meant by it not feeling like "hide and seek". So, just a naming thing.

Gotcha. What I'm trying to evoke, is that the villains here are trying to amuse themselves by making the hunt challenging. Yes, any vampire of reasonable ability will be able to know which rooms the players run to. In various rooms there would be stashed various things (weapons or potions) they could use. So they'll give their victims a "reasonable, fair" head-start to run and prepare a defence before choosing one of their number to assault. If the vampire fails, then it knows that it can simply respawn in a couple of hours to try again, each time learning a little more about their prey whilst tiring them out.

Let's say for arguments sake that: the Vampire gamely declares he will send one of his spawn after the party every hour, but if they try to leave the grounds, he will send all of them. If they survive until dawn they are free to go.

So the players have the option of treating it as an endurance survival scenario, an opportunity to gather supplies and friendly allies, or a chance to explore and identify the vampire lair in the network of cellars below to eliminate the threat completely.



What are the NPC Clerics' plans? Sure, you know where they run firstÂ… then what?

Some (of the more martial deities) might attempt to fight their way through, others (of the more goodly, spiritual deities) might attempt to simply consecrate and defend themselves somewhere, others (of death- or trickery-related deities) might attempt to bargain or sneak their way out.



There's a chance that one or more of the PCs will "go nova" on the ghoul fight - and, at least in earlier editions, I'd expect my clerics to have already used their "day" buffs. So, played honest, there's a potential vast difference for potential start conditions.

True! I could scale down the difficulty of the encounters by reducing the number of vampire spawn or increasing the number of "goodies" they find around the place, relative to how "spent" they are after the first encounter.

There's also the option of allowing the players to recharge at some point during the adventure, maybe halfway through, by drinking some kind of potion that refreshes spell slots or whatever. It's a bit contrived but there's an option there if the party completely screws itself over.

Sapphire Guard
2020-04-05, 07:37 AM
If it means anything, I want to play this game.

About the 'instakill NPC to show strength of vamps' are you sure they will take that seriously? A lot of adventures have everyone but the PCs dramatically fail, even if they're level 1.

Re the suicide attack risk, it could also work to have the vamps deliberately hold back and fight them nonlethally for the first encounter, because they're not after a quick and dirty game. Elder vampire tanks an attack, laughs, hits back hard enough to let them know what he's capable of, then fades into mist.The spawns do something similar.

If they really push it, they wake up at full health as dusk is breaking the next night. Although that could be railroady I guess.

Re dead ends, you can just have broken/breakable interior walls and secret passages, trapdoors and ladders to different floors to add variety and escape routes.

jayem
2020-04-05, 09:01 AM
1) only word of caution is "undead attack" + "fortified keep" = "assume the keep is evil, firebomb the keep" to some players. Or even a suspicious "oh reallyÂ… Detect Evil" may throw off your game. And Paladin characters get that for free - any of them on this religious pilgrimage?

See what you mean. You want it to be welcoming but safe, but if the land is mostly safe in the day, there's no reason why it can't look mostly nice.
I picture something more like Tavern 2. (although this is partially an artifact of similar scenes in "Witches Abroad" and "Carpe Jugulum")

The drunkards get turned into a prison escape game sounds like a good plan "I don't drink...vine" has some precedent. It's a bit railroady but it's explained and is at least a bit different.

(it might even allow some locals, they know they are mostly safe as long as they taste rotten). While for just the one drunkard, that's something for the team to deal with.

1000) Ignore the tavern, stay on road. Loads of encounters in predictable fashion. Targetted to have a chance of surviving. (Little prep needed it's just an encounter list)
1001) Ignore the tavern, camp. Less ambushes more a seige. Constant gamble between, e.g. getting wood for brands and not. (Limited prep, they are staying where they are)
1002) Ignore the tavern, leave road. Horrible journey, basically suicide if they progress 2nd warning. (Hey, have you tried walking in woodland at night)
2000) Go to tavern, all get pissed, wake up chained, two hours before dusk (Escape room, followed by prepped scenario but in different starting place)
2001) Go to tavern, hide in room, something, something, something... (No healing for you? But have all day to prepare. Devolves to scenario 2002/1000/1001/1002)
2002) Go to tavern, behave properly (All healed, why?, prepped scenario, including intro)
2003) Go to tavern, successfully escape in the night, go to 1000/1001
3000) Group try to burn the tavern (designed to resist ghouls). Basically suicide as caught between two attacks, if they survive get into scenario 1000 at massive disadvantage
3001) Other murderhobo behaviour ??

So that gives with really only setting up a few more 'rooms' a genuine viable family of a completely different outcome as a result of choices. But with enough bias to make your preferred outcome reasonably likely.
A reasonable range of minor consequences, that have a similar core.
Suicide is possible but requires stupid behaviour.

Basically the roads have less steel and a lot of asphalt.

Brother Oni
2020-04-05, 12:24 PM
This is exactly the kind of thing I was hinting at, yes. Seeing an "everything is normal, no need to nuke the site from orbit" scene may be a good thing. However, that may stand at odds with the fortified nature of the place (if it looks like it was recently reinforced) or against the setting (if it had been raining). As it stands, clever PCs may question the wisdom of staff visible from outside with undead roaming the region.

While it's day time, the guards are there to keep an eye on the road, help/question travellers wanting to stay and act as traffic control in busy times. If it's raining, it's a miserable job, standing out in the rain with an oilskin cape on, but it's one they have to do.

https://www.planetfigure.com/attachments/scottish-gate-guardian1-jpg.98826/
https://traynedbandes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2014-11-27-fnf-041.jpg

The unintelligent roaming undead are unlikely to be able to ambush the guards (clear lines of sights, cut back undergrowth and treeline, etc) and if a horde turns up, the guards go inside and close the gate behind them, then alert everyone. In a normal inn, every non-combatant goes gets a spear and either helps the guards fend off the undead trying to climb over the walls or holes up and protects the main building.

At night, the gates are closed and barred, with maybe a pair of guards on duty, sheltering inside the gate. If travellers want in after hours, there's usually a small peephole in the gate that the guards can open to see who's banging on the gates, then they can decide whether to let them in or not.

jayem
2020-04-05, 02:00 PM
While it's day time, the guards are there to keep an eye on the road, help/question travellers wanting to stay and act as traffic control in busy times. If it's raining, it's a miserable job, standing out in the rain with an oilskin cape on, but it's one they have to do.

https://www.planetfigure.com/attachments/scottish-gate-guardian1-jpg.98826/
https://traynedbandes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2014-11-27-fnf-041.jpg

The unintelligent roaming undead are unlikely to be able to ambush the guards (clear lines of sights, cut back undergrowth and treeline, etc) and if a horde turns up, the guards go inside and close the gate behind them, then alert everyone. In a normal inn, every non-combatant goes gets a spear and either helps the guards fend off the undead trying to climb over the walls or holes up and protects the main building.

At night, the gates are closed and barred, with maybe a pair of guards on duty, sheltering inside the gate. If travellers want in after hours, there's usually a small peephole in the gate that the guards can open to see who's banging on the gates, then they can decide whether to let them in or not.

And if the outside pressures are just wild/mindless, you don't need vast amounts of defences. The players now know the area is dangerous at dusk so they don't expect big patio windows.
You could even have it on a slight hill so the front outer courtyard wall is a bit lower.
The livery men can be visible without having to be ghoulbait. Depending on the situation, they could even be coming to the players 'rescue'.

Designing an entry way that makes sense is going to be a bit of a challenge, you want to be sure that the night traveler can easily be safe outside the gate while you open it.
If I were the doorman, I'd want some connection to the outer gate.

Brother Oni
2020-04-05, 05:37 PM
You could even have it on a slight hill so the front outer courtyard wall is a bit lower.

Designing an entry way that makes sense is going to be a bit of a challenge, you want to be sure that the night traveler can easily be safe outside the gate while you open it.
If I were the doorman, I'd want some connection to the outer gate.

In my opinion, you're overestimating the protection that this building is designed to offer - it's intended to hold off wild animals, opportunistic bandit attacks and maybe make a small warband look for a softer target. It's not designed or intended to hold up an enemy army, so it doesn't require to afford protection to night travellers - if they think it's too dangerous to let someone in who's being chased, they're not going to let them in.

On the flip side, the gates are light enough to only take maybe 10-15 seconds to open and close with a man on each door; there's no portcullis, plus they're likely to be only a medium weight design (wouldn't stand up long to a proper battering ram, but it's not intended to).

If you wanted to design a fortified inn that's built by players, to defend against players, you want something like the first design I posted above, which is much less likely to pass the 'evil keep' test mentioned earlier.

It's worth noting that a strong defensive design runs counter to the purpose of a coaching inn - fast, easy access by coaches to maximise their throughput. Typical stays were short, just long enough for the passengers/coachmen/horses to grab a drink and a bite to eat before they're back on the road again.

I don't know what the US equivalent of a motorway service station (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorway_service_area) is, but that's basically what the coaching inns evolved into.

jayem
2020-04-05, 06:27 PM
In my opinion, you're overestimating the protection that this building is designed to offer - it's intended to hold off wild animals, opportunistic bandit attacks and maybe make a small warband look for a softer target. It's not designed or intended to hold up an enemy army, so it doesn't require to afford protection to night travellers - if they think it's too dangerous to let someone in who's being chased, they're not going to let them in.

I don't know what the US equivalent of a motorway service station (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorway_service_area) is, but that's basically what the coaching inns evolved into.
The hill was so you could see the courtyard behind, and minimising the visual affect of the wall. More inspired by the Ha-ha and country houses than castle keeps.

If outside at night is consistently actively but lightly dangerous, then I think the "not letting them in", would occur too many times and with to many fatal consequences compared to the real world example. I'm only calling for a porters lodge though, not a full on gatehouse. And similar minor tweaks.

I did wonder if a kissing-gate plus latched gate in a outer farmyard fence would be enough to give you a breathing space, but that seems again a bit too vulnerable to random damage to do any good.

paddyfool
2020-04-07, 06:14 AM
NPCs to protect If there are other people staying at the inn, the PCs - especially if they are good Clerics - may be motivated to try to protect the flock. In fact, the action could start with a scream from one of the other patrons being attacked, motivating them to leave their room to investigate. Another good carrot, at least for leaving their room. It depends on the setup and the NPCs as to how much it discourages "bad" behavior thereafter, and how contrived it feels.


One way this could work is to have a really nervous NPC or NPCs offer the PCs lots of lucre to stay by their side overnight in the tavern and protect them. They could say that they are investigating recent disturbances... but now their partner / leader has up and vanished, they're all alone, and worried they'll be next.

Potential twist:


The NPC or NPCs could be vampire thralls lying to the PCs to give them a reason to stay. Or a dupe who's been dominated.

Brother Oni
2020-04-07, 07:04 AM
The hill was so you could see the courtyard behind, and minimising the visual affect of the wall. More inspired by the Ha-ha and country houses than castle keeps.

If outside at night is consistently actively but lightly dangerous, then I think the "not letting them in", would occur too many times and with to many fatal consequences compared to the real world example. I'm only calling for a porters lodge though, not a full on gatehouse. And similar minor tweaks.

I did wonder if a kissing-gate plus latched gate in a outer farmyard fence would be enough to give you a breathing space, but that seems again a bit too vulnerable to random damage to do any good.

Fair enough, just wanted to make sure that you weren't advocating a full re-engineer of the site what would be more typical of a military fort or something built by dwarves.

I don't think the kissing gate proposal would work as anybody could reach over and open the latched gate to let the coaches through and any kissing gate big enough to let a coach and horses through would be pointless for a single rider or foot travelers.

You could potentially do a slalom run setup on the road in towards the gate, much like modern military check points, but I'd think that's excessive (there's no towers for crossbow armed guards to take advantage of the slowed targets) and anachronistic (coaches and horses aren't known for ramming gates and/or delivering VBIED equivalents).

jayem
2020-04-08, 02:43 PM
Fair enough, just wanted to make sure that you weren't advocating a full re-engineer of the site what would be more typical of a military fort or something built by dwarves.

I don't think the kissing gate proposal would work as anybody could reach over and open the latched gate to let the coaches through and any kissing gate big enough to let a coach and horses through would be pointless for a single rider or foot travelers.

You could potentially do a slalom run setup on the road in towards the gate, much like modern military check points, but I'd think that's excessive (there's no towers for crossbow armed guards to take advantage of the slowed targets) and anachronistic (coaches and horses aren't known for ramming gates and/or delivering VBIED equivalents).

Yes it shows I was thinking of Wolves being 95% of the threat, but they could just go through any gaps or jump over it, which is why I gave up with that idea. If there was a natural stream that might be a nice soft border (but vampires...)

A very gently Slalom causing obstacle sounds like it could be a nice is it a feature, is it defensive (I'm now intrigued by the Victoria Memorial @ Buckingham Palace which is pretty much what I'm imagining, if you shrunk it down to tavern size.
Steps seem another nice idea (obviously they also can get in the way if there isn't a flat route), 2 or 3 and you aren't shoulder barging that door. And in game it gives an area where the mover is at a disadvantage.
The porters lodge has another advantage, then the players aren't just running out of the door (a lock would of course have a similar affect).

Going back to the 'not kill it with fire' worry, aside from psychopathy in theory just leaving you without help (as you use up the last of the spellslots nuking a possibly innocent target you realise you are in the woods alone), maybe a false target. An actually blatantly evil castle set back a long way (as in 10 miles) from the road. This could even justify your trip (although it also sets a bad precedent for trusting innocents).

Verble
2020-04-09, 11:33 PM
Hell, have some red-shirt try to escape out a window and just fall into nothingness and make sure the players see this happen. so they undoubtedly know not to leave.

Have someone make a run for it and get snatched off the road, or mobbed etc. Demonstrate to your players why that's a bad idea.

Kadzar
2020-04-18, 06:09 PM
Less enthusiastic about this option; if only because knowing my players, an exciting new location means they will feel obliged to run around exploring it, meaning I would have to "step in" to contain them. I think setting the scene as an isolated, middle-of-nowhere location is the best option. You can run, but there's nowhere to run to.What if, instead of an entirely new location, the tavern instead transported to a featureless void come nightfall? Or maybe it turns into a more hostile version of the World Serpent Inn (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/World_Serpent.pdf)?