How much would it cost to rent an 8000 gp item for a day in safe conditions?

[Conradine]

A character wants to undergo the rite of Crucimigration but has a problem with the pain.
So he wants to rent a Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain, for a single day, in safe conditions ( no chances to lose or break the item ).

What would be a reasonable fee?

[calam]

my hot fix would be to cost it as ordering a spell using the item's caster level and spell level of the highest level spell used to make it. Either than or a percentage of the item's full cost.

[Aracor]

I'd say around 1000 to 2000 gold pieces. But it depends on how many are available.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This is where haggling comes in.

Hire a bard with a super-high Cha and Diplomacy buffing effects to offer to rent it for you. It'd be cheaper than trying to get one otherwise, I think.

[Saint-Just]

A character wants to undergo the rite of Crucimigration but has a problem with the pain.
So he wants to rent a Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain, for a single day, in safe conditions ( no chances to lose or break the item ).

What would be a reasonable fee?

Let's establish a lower bound. Renting accommodations (both living space and businesses) according to Cityscape costs 1% of it's full price per month, but renting it daily costs proportionally more (at least 0.1% per day).

Absolute lower bound would be measly 8 GP. If there is a thriving market in "renting magical items" the price would probably no more than 16 GP/day. But if people usually don't do that and there are only one or two Clamps readily available then the answer should probably depend on circumstances, personality of the owner and in general should be roleplayed, not treated as a commercial transaction.

Additional considerations: Unless you have established that there is such item readily available they may need to get it from some other locale, and therefore rent it not for one day but for twice the time it takes to ship it + one day. Player may end up paying the rent for a month even if they only need it for one night ( because if it takes more than 5 days to ship it you're better off paying the monthly price).

[NotASpiderSwarm]

I generally think 1% (80 GP) of total cost feels right. Expensive enough that it's not practical for breaking WBL, cheap enough that it's a reasonable response to the problem. Anywhere within an order of magnitude of that (8 GP to 800 GP) feels justifiable, though. There's reasons to be a bit harsher, as the item will likely be harder to find(how many people will advertise that they own it), and difficult to borrow(maybe include a cleaning surcharge). On the other hand, it's mostly an RP expenditure, and you want to encourage that, so probably don't be too rough on the player.

[False God]

8000GP, duh. With X% refunded upon the safe return of the item.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

8000GP, duh. With X% refunded upon the safe return of the item.Does X = 50?

[Saint-Just]

8000GP, duh. With X% refunded upon the safe return of the item.

I would like to note my disagreement. If rental market exists people usually are not required to have enough cash to buy the item outright before they are allowed to rent it.

Still, even if it's one-of-a-kind thing it is still important to ballpark how large X should be. As I noted X is likely to be 99 or more (up to 99.9), especially if character indeed needs to post the deposit first (so the payment is deducted only for the use of the item, not to amortize possible losses).

[denthor]

An evil creature would own such an item.

Creature I know your thief. I will watch just you, me and a few fine people that I know.

1,500 gold pieces your naked during the ritual and location of my choosing.

[False God]

I would like to note my disagreement. If rental market exists people usually are not required to have enough cash to buy the item outright before they are allowed to rent it.

Still, even if it's one-of-a-kind thing it is still important to ballpark how large X should be. As I noted X is likely to be 99 or more (up to 99.9), especially if character indeed needs to post the deposit first (so the payment is deducted only for the use of the item, not to amortize possible losses).
I think a semi-medieval "rental" market is not the same as a modern rental market where mass production and numerous rentals over time means you're likely to have a readily available replacement and make you money back all the same.

I'd imagine such a market would have much higher rental costs and larger deposits.


Does X = 50?
Maybe. I would imagine the actual rental cost is like 10%, but with a 90% deposit. I mean, if you break it because stuff happens, the guy is out the full value of the item.

----
Also, I just want to point out that the item in question here is the "Nipple Clamps of Exquisite Pain", I mean yeah these things have all sorts of metagamey shenanigany uses, but they also have more....mundane uses. And you gotta clean the item really well after that kind of stuff.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

An evil creature would own such an item.I can think of a number of uses for such an item that are, at absolute worst, completely Neutral, many of them even Good.

I mean, no healing magic and you've got someone severely injured and in a lot of pain? Check.

Gotta do surgery because there's no suitable spell for removing a tumor (or something similar), and D&D doesn't have any other form of anesthetic? Check.

Going through a ritual that causes tons of pain (like, say, crucimigration? Or the implantation of a graft (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?177889-Brainstorm-for-Psionic-Tricks-Tactics-and-Combos-Handbook&p=23285432&viewfull=1#post23285432)?) but would be ruined by any sort of healing? Check.

Got a super painful curse that remove curse etc can't remove? Or you won't have it available until tomorrow? Check.

Etc.

[Saint-Just]

I think a semi-medieval "rental" market is not the same as a modern rental market where mass production and numerous rentals over time means you're likely to have a readily available replacement and make you money back all the same.

I'd imagine such a market would have much higher rental costs and larger deposits.


Well as I noted at least D&D housing market is akin to a modern rental market. Whether rental market for magic items is in the same vein is anyone's guess. In Eberron, for example, it is really likely to be in the same vein, in other settings it's different.

P.S In that particular situation deposit is unlikely to be an issue for the player - Ritual of Crucimigration costs 3000 GP, so while player may balk at spending 8000 (or even 4000) for roleplay purposes they will likely easily gather 8k deposit, so the cost is the only important question here.

[Jay R]

Whatever the owner thinks he can get for it, of course. Prices are not set by fiat, but by haggling.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Also, I just want to point out that the item in question here is the "Nipple Clamps of Exquisite Pain", I mean yeah these things have all sorts of metagamey shenanigany uses, but they also have more....mundane uses. And you gotta clean the item really well after that kind of stuff.Honestly, I'd just remake it as part of a gray ioun stone. It's still slotless, so no price change, aside from the (25 x 150%) gp cost to make it orbit around one's head. Implant it as a gem in a poison ring (Drag.Comp.) with the ioun blade property (A&EG). If the DM won't let you make an ioun BLADE ring, then a morphing/sizing sword is just as capable of turning into a ring as a ring would be to a sword.

[Ironsides]

I imagine brothels or other houses of pleasure would have some to rent for a reasonable fee. It would make sense for a business to own such an item to cater to a certain subsection of their clientele. Though they may charge an hourly rental rate since that is normally how they do business. But that’s a more RP answer.

[Shpadoinkle]

My initial thought is along the same lines as False God's: 8,000 GP deposit, plus some percentage of that (anywhere from 1 to 10%, depending on how high the demand for such an item is) as a rental fee per day.

[Quertus]

No… but… um… why would anyone who did not *innately* derive pleasure from pain (or whatever *actually* drives a masochist) want to gain pleasure from taking damage?

If you innately *enjoy* being hurt, then, sure, you might pay to be hurt. But, if you *don't*, why would you *pay more* to walk away injured?

I can see it as a Sadist *paying* someone to get injured, part of the payment being that the initial act of taking damage is made pleasurable.

But I can't see paying for something you don't like, then paying even more to not mind as much.

[Asmotherion]

I'd say around 800gp sounds as a fair price.

Though this would result in other Necropolitans to view you as you would a colegue who got their possition only because of their father being Ceo, or a profesional athlete who got famous only because he was using steroids.

[King of Nowhere]

I would like to note my disagreement. If rental market exists people usually are not required to have enough cash to buy the item outright before they are allowed to rent it.



on the other hand, it raised an important point: how much do the guys doing the renting trust you to really return it safely, and not steal it and never show up again? if they do not trust you, they are likely to charge more. asking for a deposit would be reasonable.

[Conradine]

The guys renting the clamp are the same guys doing the ritual of crugimigration. They let customers use the clamp only in that very specific and totally controlled situation and only for the time strictly necessary.

[Saint-Just]

The guys renting the clamp are the same guys doing the ritual of crugimigration. They let customers use the clamp only in that very specific and totally controlled situation and only for the time strictly necessary.

Well, then I want to double up on the "ridiculously cheap" advice (aka 8-80GP, probably 16). If the price to rent a tenement for a day is 1\500 to 1\2000 of it's price to buy I see no reason why magical item remaining wholly under control of it's owners would need to be priced higher than 1/100. That is, if they are interested in more clients and try to have low prices while still being profitable

On the other hand if they are only source for that item and actively exploiting their monopoly then the answer is "what the market will bear". Absolute upper limit would be 4000 (that is, half of the item's price).

[False God]

on the other hand, it raised an important point: how much do the guys doing the renting trust you to really return it safely, and not steal it and never show up again? if they do not trust you, they are likely to charge more. asking for a deposit would be reasonable.

And of course in a rental market that is basically some guy renting out a bunch of stuff he doesn't really use, there aren't exactly "fair market rules" to what he's charging. While I'm aware many people subscribe to the idea that there are magic shops on every corner and wizards who can craft whatever you have in mind at the drop of a had, I'm still going to hold on firmly to the idea that this may not be a universal truth.

Perhaps this merchant is the only game in town, even if he isn't there's no guarantee every merchant has overlapping stock. Perhaps they have organized their stock via a trade-alliance so that each one only sells/rents things the other doesn't have. Maybe the local lords have placed high taxes on the trade of magic items, or restricted the local mages ability to produce more.

We can't assume that there is any sort of fair and free market operating here. We can only assume that Mr Merchant has only one of these items, and that he knows nothing about whomever wants to "rent it", but knows of adventurers well enough that there's a good chance he'll never see it again. Mr Merchant has every reason to charge as much as possible for that item.

I would still argue the system would function as "You pay full or nearly full price, and then are refunded based on duration of use, condition after use, and how much Mr Merchant happens to like you."

[Quertus]

The guys renting the clamp are the same guys doing the ritual of crugimigration. They let customers use the clamp only in that very specific and totally controlled situation and only for the time strictly necessary.

1) then they might just offer it as a "free service", a bonus for shopping with them.

2) They might have performed Divinations, and charged according to making their money back / making X% profit. Which could lead to interesting conversations some day of, "you're our last customer." "Of the day?" "No, of forever."

3) they might charge a set percentage, that they think is "fair".

4) they might charge whatever they want / think that they can get away with.

[Saint-Just]

I would still argue the system would function as "You pay full or nearly full price, and then are refunded based on duration of use, condition after use, and how much Mr Merchant happens to like you."

I want to emphasize "depending on how much Mr Merchant happens to like you he announces this or that price per day in advance". Because "return me the item and I'll return you some percentage of your deposit depending on my mood" is not the way people ever rented anything.

But most importantly OP already stated that the guys wit the Clamp are the ones who will perform the Crucimigration. So it's less "renting a laptop which you can take with yourself" and more like "renting gem-encrusted, hoof-embroidered by the Tibetan virgin yaks sleep mask from the airline for the duration of the flight"

[Telonius]

Offer to help the owner use the item for a few times afterwards. Might get him to lower the price some more. Or maybe offer him a favor that you can only do after going through the ritual.

[Zanos]

I doubt anyone is going to want a nipple clamp back after you're done with it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I doubt anyone is going to want a nipple clamp back after you're done with it.Hence why "ioun stone of exquisite pain" is a good idea.

[Him]

How much would it cost to hire an NPC that's worth at least 8000gp for a day. Start there.

Weirdo. Or maybe the guy who designed the magical nipple clamp is the real weirdo.