Ghostwire's Thoughts - Birds of Prey

[Ghostwire]

Jesus Christ DC. Just...just stop already. Stop making these garbage movies and stick to your animated stuff. DC animation is some of the best super hero stories on the screen, but this live action stuff is trash.

This movie should have been called Tonal Whiplash. It jumps back and forth from silly jokes and comedy to disturbing torture and murder. It jumps all over the place from character to character, even though Harley Quinn is the only one that has any story and the rest are set dressing at best. Hell they don’t even have much to do until the last third of the movie.

The acting in this is so ridiculously over the top its not even fun to watch. The only one nailing her role is Margot Robbie, because Harley Quinn is SUPPOSED to be over the top and ridiculous. The rest of them end up chewing so much scenery I’m surprised there was anything left to shoot.

I’m not even going to get into the complete character assassination committed against Renee Montoya, Black Canary AND Cassandra Cain in this. None of them are even half as good as their comic book counter parts, and in the case of Cain there was no reason for her to even be there. That role could have been filled by any generic pickpocket. Instead DC took one of their best bat family characters and destroyed her, turning her from an elite combat specialist to a dumb teenage urchin.

Skip this movie. It isn’t worth the time to watch it. And please, someone stop Hollywood from giving DC any more money to waste on these bombs.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Why would DC stop? BoP is going to be the highest-grossing comic book movie of 2020.

[Khedrac]

Also, remember when giving your opinions that tastes differ. I really like it, and one friend of mine walked out at the end and found when the nexct screening was so that he could watch it again...

Just as I think "Joker" was a terrible movie, probably the worst I have seen in the last year - obviously my view is completely different to the critics, but that's just my view. (It doesn't help that it is not the origin story of a supervillan - there is no way the character in the film is anything other than a poster-boy for a movement, he would not last 10 seconds against any Batman incarnation or most police.)

[LibraryOgre]

Conversely, I loved the movie. I thought the tonal whiplash and ADHD-style storytelling contributed a lot to it being, largely, from Harley's POV. I thought Canary and Montoya were both well-treated... they were versions of the character who were recognizable as the character, though some details were changed.

I liked the character called "Cass Cain" in this movie, but I don't think she was a good representation of the Cassandra Cain of the comics... she would've done a lot better as Stephanie Brown or Carrie Kelly, and Steph would've been manageable with just a couple dialog changes.

Good, fun, movie.

[Rodin]

Why would DC stop? BoP is going to be the highest-grossing comic book movie of 2020.

Maybe if you assume there are no more 2020 movies due to the cinemas all being shut?

Right now Birds of Prey has around $200 million worldwide according to Wikipedia. With the shutdown it's unlikely to grow that much more. It also isn't getting a Chinese release.

In order to break even it would have needed to make $250-$300 million. At this point in the release schedule both Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad were doing better.

For comparison between R-rated comic book movies, Joker went on to be the first R-rated movie to break $1 billion dollars.

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With all that in mind, the competition would have to be incredibly weak for Birds of Prey to wind up the highest grossing. The outlook on that front is...not good.

Black Widow was set to come out in May, but is likely to get pushed back into the summer blockbuster period. The lowest MCU take from recent years is Antman and the Wasp with around $600 million, and Black Widow is a much more marketable character.

MCU's second movie is The Eternals, which is far harder to judge because they're entirely unknown to the movie-going public. I would still expect a strong MCU Bump.

Wonder Woman 1984 hits in the summer as well. Wonder Woman's total box office was around $800 million, and the sequel would pass BoP with even half that take.

Venom 2 hits in October, and the original is another film that grossed around $800 million.

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I hate to say it, but Birds of Prey's best shot really is hoping that the world ends. I would expect box office revenues to be significantly lower for 2020 due to the virus, but it's going to take a major shift for BoP to stand a chance. And even then BoP wouldn't have made a profit! It would win by default because Hollywood collapsed.


Edit:

By the by, I am not discussing the quality of the movie at all here. I haven't seen it, mostly due to a lack of interest in Harley Quinn. I've heard good things, I've heard bad things, but I cannot critique a movie I have not seen.

This is speculation purely based on box office take. By that standard, Birds of Prey performed poorly.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Maybe if you assume there are no more 2020 movies due to the cinemas all being shut?
Yes, that was the joke.

On-topic, I liked it. It wasn't "good" by any objective measure, but most of what OP mentions as negatives were things I liked. The action was good, the scenery-chewing was fun, Renee felt pretty true to the char, and Huntress was an interesting take, running her usual Punisher/Batman schtick to it's illogical conclusion. Not perfect, probably won't win any Oscars(unless Sonic is the only competition), but definitely a decent pick-me-up to watch when the world is too messy and you just want bright colors and mobsters getting hit with a giant hammer.

My only real complaints were the tonal whiplash(Seriously, why use Zsasz as a villain in this of all things?) and how it used Cass Cain. Make a new character, PLEASE.

[Dragonus45]

I mean, I liked the movie and I think there were good things that it did but it really was a bit of a mess elevated by excellent casting and characters. Other then the massive travesty that was Cassandra Cain. That pretty much ruined the movie for a big way.

[Cikomyr2]

I know i had a lot of fun. I loved Ewan McGregor as the bad guy and what he represented.

[Rynjin]

Black Widow was set to come out in May, but is likely to get pushed back into the summer blockbuster period. The lowest MCU take from recent years is Antman and the Wasp with around $600 million, and Black Widow is a much more marketable character.



Last I saw, Black Widow is set to come out in November. That's one I'm excited for, as long as they do Taskmaster justice as the villain. There better be some damn good fight scenes in that movie.

I didn't see BoP, but what I gathered was that the general consensus is the movie is pretty okay, which puts it well ahead of the general pack of the DC live action films, so that's something at least.

[LibraryOgre]

Other then the massive travesty that was Cassandra Cain. That pretty much ruined the movie for a big way.

Totally should have been named something else. If they'd named her almost anything else, it would've been fine, but they went with a character whose schtick is "Martial Artist who has trouble with spoken language".

If they wanted established names, like I've said, Stephanie Brown. Black Mask wants to co-opt Cluemaster's organization. You have to change practically nothing about the movie but a few names.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Totally should have been named something else. If they'd named her almost anything else, it would've been fine, but they went with a character whose schtick is "Martial Artist who has trouble with spoken language".

If they wanted established names, like I've said, Stephanie Brown. Black Mask wants to co-opt Cluemaster's organization. You have to change practically nothing about the movie but a few names.

They don't even need to mention Cluemaster. I don't think any Steph fans will mind her dad being a generic abusive jerk rather than a C-tier supervillain/abusive jerk.

[Clertar]

Why would DC stop? BoP is going to be the highest-grossing comic book movie of 2020.

Come one man, don't give up hope!

[Ghostwire]

Totally should have been named something else. If they'd named her almost anything else, it would've been fine, but they went with a character whose schtick is "Martial Artist who has trouble with spoken language".

If they wanted established names, like I've said, Stephanie Brown. Black Mask wants to co-opt Cluemaster's organization. You have to change practically nothing about the movie but a few names.

100% agree with this.

I haven't seen Cassie treated this badly since Adam Beechen turned her into a murder happy villain who suddenly knew the navajo language despite struggling with english up until then.

[Iruka]

Did they even sing their song?

[Sapphire Guard]

It's not great, not terrible. Back in Suicide Squad, Harley was someone people were scared of, now she suddenly just had a scary boyfriend and no one takes her seriously without him. She's lost her edge and scariness, in and out of universe.

[Dragonus45]

Totally should have been named something else. If they'd named her almost anything else, it would've been fine, but they went with a character whose schtick is "Martial Artist who has trouble with spoken language".

If they wanted established names, like I've said, Stephanie Brown. Black Mask wants to co-opt Cluemaster's organization. You have to change practically nothing about the movie but a few names.

YES! Stephanie Brown was the perfect person for that role, and I would be that early scripts probably had her there before the movie gelled into a specifically woke multi cultural marketing push and they realized they could put Cassie in. Instead of, I don't know, just changing Stephanie Brown's race to match whatever slot was missing. And really you could keep the implication of her dad being a villain just with her name and the knowledge he is a piece of crap abusive ******* and save the bigger reveal for later.

[LibraryOgre]

YES! Stephanie Brown was the perfect person for that role, and I would be that early scripts probably had her there before the movie gelled into a specifically woke multi cultural marketing push and they realized they could put Cassie in. Instead of, I don't know, just changing Stephanie Brown's race to match whatever slot was missing. And really you could keep the implication of her dad being a villain just with her name and the knowledge he is a piece of crap abusive ******* and save the bigger reveal for later.

You don't have to change ANYTHING about the character but the name. Stephanie Brown would work just fine as a Asian girl... and far better than Cassandra Cain would work as a glib pickpocket.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Last I saw, Black Widow is set to come out in November.

+1 this, Black Widow currently has Eternals' old slot, Eternals in turn got pushed to the slot in February 2021 and the rest got pushed to the next slot down the line to make room.

Re: Sony's movies, Morbius got pushed to 2021 and Venom 2 and MCU Spider-man 3 haven't moved (yet).

[Cikomyr2]

+1 this, Black Widow currently has Eternals' old slot, Eternals in turn got pushed to the slot in February 2021 and the rest got pushed to the next slot down the line to make room.

Re: Sony's movies, Morbius got pushed to 2021 and Venom 2 and MCU Spider-man 3 haven't moved (yet).

So for my birthday, I will have to pick between Godzilla or Black Widow..

Goddamn

[Dragonus45]

So for my birthday, I will have to pick between Godzilla or Black Widow..

Goddamn

I mean, if its your birthday I say make a day of it! Its what I planned to do... before the theaters closed.

[Cikomyr2]

I mean, if its your birthday I say make a day of it! Its what I planned to do... before the theaters closed.

I just loved King of the Monsters so much..

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I just loved King of the Monsters so much..

I believe Dragonus45's point was, why not do both? If the theaters have reopened by then, see a morning showing for one and an afternoon showing for the other.

[Zmeoaice]

Stephanie Brown would be an awful replacement for Cass in the film.

From another Steph fan:


Literally the whole point behind Steph’s creation is that she is an antithesis to her father. He is the bad, she is the good, he is the villain of the story, she is the hero of the story so having this random kid team up with a serial killer as Harley is so unlike Steph.

Second, no matter how bad her financial situation was Steph never stole or took advantage of her Spoiler situation. In Batgirl she donated the money to an orphanage ( or was it a hospital), in Robin after a remark from Tim she did pay for her soda so again being a thief is unlike Steph.

Third, I want to see Steph as she is portrayed in her comicbook so some Cass fans going around and suggesting that this should have been Steph and have her character destroyed instead has pissed me off so much. The kid isn't Cass but she doesn’t resemble Steph at all.