Dragon Disciple: How Should One Do It?

[Vulion]

Yeah, I was just wondering about your idea's about the Dragon Disciple prestige class. Namely, I would like to know what type of build one would go for to make a powerful one.

My personal take on it is: Fighter 2/Sorceror 8/Dragon Disciple 10.

I would just like to hear your opinion's.

[Saph]

Actually we just did a thread on this a week ago - it's here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60222).

My best idea is Barbarian 2 / Duskblade 3 / Dragon Disciple 10 / Abjurant Champion 5. That gives near-full BAB and is fairly strong at every level.

- Saph

[Starbuck_II]

Yeah, I was just wondering about your idea's about the Dragon Disciple prestige class. Namely, I would like to know what type of build one would go for to make a powerful one.

My personal take on it is: Fighter 2/Sorceror 8/Dragon Disciple 10.

I would just like to hear your opinion's.

DD is not a casting build. You get bonus spells/day (of highest you had when reached those levels, true, but caster level does not increase)

DD is a melee class that requires caster levels to join.

So why so many Sorceror levels?

[Kurald Galain]

My personal take on it is: Fighter 2/Sorceror 8/Dragon Disciple 10.

Half-dragon 3 / Swashbuckler 2 / Beguiler 6 / Knight of mists X

[Tequila Sunrise]

Sorcerer 1/Melee class of choice X/DD X

It's really as simple as that.

[Fishy]

It's probably best as half of a gestalt. Sorcerer//Ranger/DD?

Cayzle recommends (http://www.cayzle.com/screeds/book053.html) doing something complicated with Bard/Fighter/Cleric to get an unholy boost to your AC courtesy of your shiny dragon scales: But then he doesn't consider things like Beguilers and Duskblades.

[cupkeyk]

Yup, minimal caster levels are best. I prefer Full Bab class 5/ Dragon Devotee 3, 4, 5/ DDX.

If you go full levels in Dragon Devotee and Dragon Disciple you get a +14 adjustment to strength and 16 BAB. Not good, but not bad for tripper builds.

[Temp]

Getting the Caster levels out of the way through Duskblade or Hexblade (Duskblade synergizes better with the Intelligence boost and melee role) is the best way to go.

Saph's is a good concept, but the Abjurant Champion levels don't really do much to help the build (Duskblade has a generally Abjuration-lacking spell list with no Shield).
I would do what she said trading the AC levels (and maybe one of the Barb levels too) for DB levels. This would require you to have Barbarian as a favored class to avoid Exp. penalties, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[Angeltelron]

Half-dragon 3 / Swashbuckler 2 / Beguiler 6 / Knight of mists X

If I remember correctly the Dragon Disciple has a nondragon restriction so you can't have half-dragon before you take it.

[UserClone]

It would be pointless for a half-dragon to take the class anyways, as that is the capstone ability :smalltongue:

[Kaelik]

If I remember correctly the Dragon Disciple has a nondragon restriction so you can't have half-dragon before you take it.

If you note the build it has Dragon Disciple no where in it. He was making the point that in most cases Dragon Disciple is not very good, and that Half-Dragon and 7 class levels is often a better choice.

[Temp]

If I remember correctly the Dragon Disciple has a nondragon restriction so you can't have half-dragon before you take it.
Note he doesn't have DD levels anywhere.


It would be pointless for a half-dragon to take the class anyways, as that is the capstone ability

I'm fairly certain the point is that you can get the Half-Dragon Template without spending ten levels.

The Dragon Disciple does have its benefits... Of the Core prestige classes, it tanks better than most, providing resources that help most melee fighters--flight, strength, will saves and good hit dice. Does it match the Eldrich Knight? Not really. Does it even match the Bladesinger? Nope. Spellsword? Not a chance.

But it has easy entrance and enough small plusses to beat a straight core Fighter or maybe even Paladin.


[Edit:] Bah. Ninja-ed.

[Grynning]

Personally, I've hated the Dragon Disciple PrC for a long time, it doesn't offer anything significant and essentially makes you waste a level in a spellcasting class to get a sub-par melee build, or, conversely, sacrifices 10 levels of your spellcasting class for, well, a sub-par melee build.
If you like dragon-themed characters, the Dragon Shaman from PHBII is a great 20 level class that gives you party buff abilities, natural armor, decent skills and melee ability, and doesn't require any multi-classing or prestige-class levels to be good. Less book-keeping = easier play.

[Zincorium]

If you note the build it has Dragon Disciple no where in it. He was making the point that in most cases Dragon Disciple is not very good, and that Half-Dragon and 7 class levels is often a better choice.

I'd argue that it's only significantly better than dragon disciple for caster classes, for melee the loss of hit dice is generally worse than a loss of class features. And skillmonkey's shouldn't be taking either.

[Kaelik]

I'd argue that it's only significantly better than dragon disciple for caster classes, for melee the loss of hit dice is generally worse than a loss of class features. And skillmonkey's shouldn't be taking either.

I disagree, I find that Dragon Disciple is pretty much useless for everyone, and that while Half-Dragon also isn't worth it, it's almost universally better to take seven class levels in a useful class.

I'm sure this is partially based on how I build my characters, but I wouldn't take those seven levels in Fighter, so 7 lvls of class abilities are worth far more to me then 3 HD.

[Kurald Galain]

I disagree, I find that Dragon Disciple is pretty much useless for everyone, and that while Half-Dragon also isn't worth it, it's almost universally better to take seven class levels in a useful class.

Precisely.

If you really must, note that you can obtain the ability to cast arcane spells from a feat, thus you don't have to waste a level in sorcerer on it.

[Zincorium]

I disagree, I find that Dragon Disciple is pretty much useless for everyone, and that while Half-Dragon also isn't worth it, it's almost universally better to take seven class levels in a useful class.

I'm sure this is partially based on how I build my characters, but I wouldn't take those seven levels in Fighter, so 7 lvls of class abilities are worth far more to me then 3 HD.

If you're a tanking character, those three hit dice hurt, whereas none of the core full BAB classes has very good class features after the point you'd qualify. And for the record, I regard dragon disciple as being bad because half dragon isn't anywhere worth the LA that comes with it.

If you try to avoid overshadowing something that isn't very good, you're going to outright suck, and that's what happened with the dragon disciple. I still say that, like geomancer, it's worth it as one side when playing gestalt.