Items/spells that count as libraries?

[digiman619]

Especially for K:Arcana, and History and/or Local.

[Kurald Galain]

Count as libraries? What are you expecting these items/spells to do exactly?

[Psyren]

Count as libraries? What are you expecting these items/spells to do exactly?

I believe he means a library's ability to remove the untrained limit on a knowledge check and grant a bonus?

Greater Monster Almanac appears to do this for monsters, while the Book of the Damned can actually send you to a library demiplane to research lower planes topics, but that one's an artifact and it's basically PF's version of the BoVD so you probably don't want to go looking for it. I'm not sure about History and Local. (Scarf of Glorious Histories isn't a library per se but it does let you make History checks untrained.)

One option might be finding a feat that lets you make knowledge checks untrained (e.g. Improvisation) and then figuring out a way to get that feat temporarily (e.g. Paragon Surge), and putting that on an item.

[digiman619]

Count as libraries? What are you expecting these items/spells to do exactly?
I meant for research purposes. I'm playing a pactmaker, the PF equivalent of a 3.5 Binder. To unlock a new vestige, I need to make a knowledge check in 4 different areas. The problem is that he's taking the stance that I can only do such research at a library, which can be hard to find in the middle of adventuring. Especially adventuring in Ustalav, whose population is very much fond of torches and pitchforks.

[Malphegor]

I was going to say a Acorn of Far Travel could be used to count as being in a library, but that might not fly unless you can swing past your DM that the power of librariness merely requires proximity to the location rather than being there in a manner that can access these books, sure.


Plus what is an library? To one man a bundle of books on a shelf is a library, and to others it requires multiple shelves? Are shelves important? Is a pile of books in your bag a library? It is perfectly valid to say more than one book is a library, and also there are some who will argue blue that that doesn’t count.

[Psyren]

I meant for research purposes. I'm playing a pactmaker, the PF equivalent of a 3.5 Binder. To unlock a new vestige, I need to make a knowledge check in 4 different areas. The problem is that he's taking the stance that I can only do such research at a library, which can be hard to find in the middle of adventuring. Especially adventuring in Ustalav, whose population is very much fond of torches and pitchforks.

Ah, that makes things a lot clearer. I have no specific items that would grant you general/portable library access, but there are other ways to get what you need:

1) First, Pactmakers can already make all the knowledge checks (untrained) to complete Spirit Knowledge tasks - so from a pure RAW standpoint, a library doesn't do much for you. It would provide a bonus on your check which is useful, but bear in mind that every time you fail you get a hefty bonus too. In point of fact, you're intended to be able to do research simply by gleaning lore from your environment, especially if you adventure in places like ruins or dungeons (Grimoire 84). If your GM is ruling that you absolutely need a library to make the checks at all, they should bear in mind that that's a disadvantage the class didn't assume. You can also remind them that spirits want to be found so they can make pacts, and so

2) Assuming they don't budge on needing some lore source but libraries are still impractical, your best alternative to libraries for learning new spirits are gnostic tomes. Depending on the level you start at, you can have one or a few of these included in your starting wealth, and your GM should consider including some of these as treasure for you too. These will automatically let you complete all knowledge tasks for a given spirit and are thus one of the more suitable/valuable ways to reward you as you gain wealth.

3) With both libraries and tomes off the table, your next best bet is magical research - divinations in other words. Purchase items (using UMD if needed) or spellcasting services to either research spirits directly, or to find suitable places where their lore might be located so that you can roll your knowledge checks. Hypercognition is a good spell for this wherever you happen to be as one example.

4) If all else fails, so long as you research one spirit at a time you will get a cumulative +5 every time you fail, so provided you have the time you will succeed eventually. This is by far the most time-consuming approach but by RAW it works no matter whether you have a library or not.

Above all though you want to chat with your GM about Spirit/Vestige access - the class needs them to function, and getting them isn't automatic the way the 3.5 Binder was. If they're letting you play the class at all, they need to either give you enough to function or give you the time/means to do research, otherwise it may as well be a soft ban.

[digiman619]

Ah, that makes things a lot clearer. I have no specific items that would grant you general/portable library access, but there are other ways to get what you need:

1) First, Pactmakers can already make all the knowledge checks (untrained) to complete Spirit Knowledge tasks - so from a pure RAW standpoint, a library doesn't do much for you. It would provide a bonus on your check which is useful, but bear in mind that every time you fail you get a hefty bonus too. In point of fact, you're intended to be able to do research simply by gleaning lore from your environment, especially if you adventure in places like ruins or dungeons (Grimoire 84). If your GM is ruling that you absolutely need a library to make the checks at all, they should bear in mind that that's a disadvantage the class didn't assume. You can also remind them that spirits want to be found so they can make pacts, and so

2) Assuming they don't budge on needing some lore source but libraries are still impractical, your best alternative to libraries for learning new spirits are gnostic tomes. Depending on the level you start at, you can have one or a few of these included in your starting wealth, and your GM should consider including some of these as treasure for you too. These will automatically let you complete all knowledge tasks for a given spirit and are thus one of the more suitable/valuable ways to reward you as you gain wealth.

3) With both libraries and tomes off the table, your next best bet is magical research - divinations in other words. Purchase items (using UMD if needed) or spellcasting services to either research spirits directly, or to find suitable places where their lore might be located so that you can roll your knowledge checks. Hypercognition is a good spell for this wherever you happen to be as one example.

4) If all else fails, so long as you research one spirit at a time you will get a cumulative +5 every time you fail, so provided you have the time you will succeed eventually. This is by far the most time-consuming approach but by RAW it works no matter whether you have a library or not.

Above all though you want to chat with your GM about Spirit/Vestige access - the class needs them to function, and getting them isn't automatic the way the 3.5 Binder was. If they're letting you play the class at all, they need to either give you enough to function or give you the time/means to do research, otherwise it may as well be a soft ban.
The problem isn't making the check. The problem is that I'm not even allowed to attempt a check without access to a library. I'm 4th level and thus far have been able to make one attempt at making a Knowledge Task. And it relegated me to NPC status for an in-week game to do so. Which especially sucks as it's play-by-post and that took about 2-3 months IRL. Thankfully, my GM has given me some spirits by level up, but only from 2 constellations, so I'm just picking which order I want them in.

[Psyren]

The problem isn't making the check. The problem is that I'm not even allowed to attempt a check without access to a library. I'm 4th level and thus far have been able to make one attempt at making a Knowledge Task. And it relegated me to NPC status for an in-week game to do so. Which especially sucks as it's play-by-post and that took about 2-3 months IRL. Thankfully, my GM has given me some spirits by level up, but only from 2 constellations, so I'm just picking which order I want them in.

I know that that's your problem, and I specifically addressed that :smalltongue:

Again, if your GM isn't allowing you to make the checks, that's not the intent of the class. They need to be clear with you on how you can get enough additional spirits to make your character function, if they're allowing it at all.