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Aotrs Commander
2020-04-07, 05:32 AM
Is Magic Missile too weak now?

At the inception of 3.0, MM was ported across more-or-less unchanged from AD&D as the best damage-dealing first level spell.

But we are now in an environment which you have the Lesser Orbs (in 3.5) and stuff like Snowball (especially the pre-nerf conjuration version - notably the one Owlcat used in PF:Kingmaker) or even Ear-Percing Scream. MM thus seem to suffer a bit from the same issue as the Cure spells (though they were dramatically crippled by the change from AD&D).

Now, I know - because I looked before I posted on the interwebs - that you can make builds around it, but you could do exactly the same for any 1st level spell, with the possible exception of using Toppling Spell on it. But that doesn't change the default level.

In practise, MM's damage being Force doesn't come up that much, I've found my own experience; there isn't much (mostly ghosts) that Force is especially good against (and even then it's only ever "does normal damage" and not "vulnerable to.") So the use of Force damage being a plus over other damage types would seem to be less often than the likelihood of it being hard-countered by Shield, except maybe outside of cicumstances where you know incorporeal/ethereal creatures are going to be run into.

Come to that, a spell that has an attack roll has the option of allowing anything you can apply to attack rolls to it (Sneak Attack, buffs etc), which can make even a cantrip ray not insubstantial damage.

MM also can't be improved by Intensify Spell (PF) or by Admixture Spell (3.5), because it doesn't have dice of damage, just number of missiles. And I can count on the fingers of one hand in my entire roleplaying career I have seen Magic Missile actually be split onto multiple targets to make use of that (as by the time you can actually cast enough missiles to do that, you're not going to kill anything with one missile except in niche circumstances where you know something is on low single digit hit points, which is quite hard to achieve. A max HD Bebilith Queen once got killed with Sound Burst in my 17th-Epic game, but that doens't make Sound Burst a particularly good spell...)

So is that low damage really worth the trade off for automatic hit and Force damage?



And if not, how would one bring it up to par? Have it scale faster to cap out at 5th level instead of 9th? (Making it a good low-level spell and maybe useful for longer?) Increase to D6 damage? A combination of both, so that it gets 1 missile/level (max 5), but the damage increases to D6 at 5th and D8 and 9th? Or, if that's too much, instead, leave the number of missiles and D4 alone, but scale the + on the missile, maybe to +1/level or +1 for every odd level (max +5) (5D4+25 would be respectable damage and the damage of each individual bolt would be close to what the Arcane School bolts.)

Thoughts?




(I did, in fact long ago, back in D&D, make higher level versions of Magic Missile (Enchanted Torpedo, Arcane Rocket and Thuamatergic Bomb, because I was in my TIE Fighter phase), but Aside from one or two casts of the former, I don't think anyone has ever used the others... I should revise them, actually...!)

Powerdork
2020-04-07, 06:15 AM
There is no mechanism to defend against magic missile without either a specific spell of marginal numeric benefit, an obscure magic item that's based on that same spell but doesn't even grant the numeric benefit, or a special defense that works against all magic. When considering if you know a sorcerer spell, it's important to consider if the spell is broadly applicable, and there is no circumstance in which a sorcerer will regret picking magic missile that they wouldn't also regret picking lesser orb of acid or whatnot, unless they were an acid sorcerer or otherwise remarkably specialized.

If you were playing 4e, this would be an entirely different situation, since magic missile would be one of the at-will spells available to a wizard, and an acceptable vehicle for the bonus damage from a magic staff (if you ignore the kneejerk patch that replaces its Attack and Hit lines with an Effect line).

Aotrs Commander
2020-04-07, 06:52 AM
There is no mechanism to defend against magic missile without either a specific spell of marginal numeric benefit, an obscure magic item that's based on that same spell but doesn't even grant the numeric benefit, or a special defense that works against all magic. When considering if you know a sorcerer spell, it's important to consider if the spell is broadly applicable, and there is no circumstance in which a sorcerer will regret picking magic missile that they wouldn't also regret picking lesser orb of acid or whatnot, unless they were an acid sorcerer or otherwise remarkably specialized.

If you were playing 4e, this would be an entirely different situation, since magic missile would be one of the at-will spells available to a wizard, and an acceptable vehicle for the bonus damage from a magic staff (if you ignore the kneejerk patch that replaces its Attack and Hit lines with an Effect line).

Okay, and what about wizards? Are you saying Magic Missile is only worthwhile for sorcerers? (If so, I feel that is a problem for the single-most iconic wizard spell.)

Come to that, you ALSO have to balance overall whether the likelihood of you having more encounters where a creature is resistant to your specific element-damage spell verses encounters where it is not resistant/vulnerable. (Or, in the case of the orbs, how much SR resistant enemies there are.) (Sonic damage is especially rare, to the point I note PF excluded it as an energy choice a lot of the time - I can think of very little (Slaad, I think) which even have resistance to Sonic.)

Which is better, being able to deal more damage in, say, 7/8 encounters or less damage in 8/8 encounters (with one particular spell)?

At lower level, where such spells are going to be used, you also only infrequently run into enemies that even HAVE resistances (even less so that it being Force matters).

King of Nowhere
2020-04-07, 07:03 AM
magic missile is the kalashnikov of magic. not especially powerful, or accurate, or generally good. but very reliable.
there are very few circumstances where it will fail to deal some damage.

that said, there are more powerful, better spells. but i would not call MM subpar. rather, it's some splatbook spells that were made way too powerful.

Kurald Galain
2020-04-07, 07:29 AM
Is Magic Missile too weak now?

That depends. Is this in your world with your personal houserules? Because we don't know what those houserules are...

If PF at least, it's a good spell (1) in wand form, or (2) combined with certain metamagic feats, or (3) as a mid-level fallback for when your regular tricks don't work.

magicalmagicman
2020-04-07, 08:05 AM
As a wand it is fantastic. I get it on my sorcerers 100% of the time. Normal fights she just spams a wand of magic missile and against boss fights she casts magic missile herself for the increased caster level. There are very few items that are better for low level adventurers than a wand of magic missile.

If you don't use a wand and use only your spell slots then yeah, MM is crap.

Malphegor
2020-04-07, 08:10 AM
Okay so here’s my analysis of magic missile.

It’s low level. Level 1 in fact. that means it’s cheap to have on a magic item, vehicles, and such forth.

It can hit many targets at once or very few as needed, and it doesn’t require an attack roll on any, which makes it reliable at hitting even if your Dex is terrible.

In the GBA Baldur’s Gate game, it looks like a giant white ghost sperm swimming out of you.

Magic missile is basically the rubbish machine gun you get early on in a Fallout game. It’s cheap, it fires a lot per round cast, but there are better tools you can get, but it’s a old faithful you might come back to in a pinch for those niche times auto-hitting (which incidentally makes it an okay chassis for expensive metamagic you don’t want to risk missing) or ‘hits ghosts due to force okay’ is useful.

It’s not special, it’s a bit disappointing, but it’s cheap and probably on sale at your magic mart. Get a few eternal wands of it and toss it to your party members so they always have some auto-hit capabilities in a pinch.

(my group believe all wizards should have it. I point blank think it’s not a great spell in terms of being cool, but it does have its practical uses.)

Psyren
2020-04-07, 09:08 AM
I would consider up to 5d4+5 to one target out of a first-level slot, with no attack roll or saving throw, from ~200ft away to be pretty par actually.

As you and others mentioned, it stays relevant as a rider for metamagic and a reliable way of affecting incorporeal or high-AC targets at higher levels.

Mordaedil
2020-04-07, 10:07 AM
Also having played a sorcerer in low-level games twice now, lesser orbs spells? Terrible at first few levels. Touch AC's aren't going to be all 10's yet and hitting at all is a bum shot. Magic Missile is incredibly accurate. No rolls necessary except against spell resistance.

Thunder999
2020-04-07, 11:55 AM
It's a little sub par for damage, but that's mostly OK since it's got no attack roll. In 3.5 it's slightly worse than a lesser orb (1d4+1 vs 1d8) and in PF it scales much slower than a snowball.

Now it's not amazing, but that's because none of the level 1 damaging spells are meant to be.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-04-07, 12:08 PM
It's terrible for damage, but spellcasters shouldn't be using 1st level spells for damage anyway.

It's pretty decent for delivering effects like Fell Drain, Fell Frighten, and Fell Weaken metamagic to multiple opponents.

Vizzerdrix
2020-04-07, 12:20 PM
It's terrible for damage, but spellcasters shouldn't be using 1st level spells for damage anyway.

It's pretty decent for delivering effects like Fell Drain, Fell Frighten, and Fell Weaken metamagic to multiple opponents.

I never got a grasp on fell drain mm. Can one casting stack all its negative levels on a single target, or must it be one neg level per target per casting?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-04-07, 12:35 PM
I never got a grasp on fell drain mm. Can one casting stack all its negative levels on a single target, or must it be one neg level per target per casting?

One fell drain spell can only apply one negative level to one creature. So you can give up to five creatures each a negative level, each time you cast it.

Ramza00
2020-04-07, 12:35 PM
I never got a grasp on fell drain mm. Can one casting stack all its negative levels on a single target, or must it be one neg level per target per casting?

1 Negative Level per target per casting, but the spell can affect multiple targets so with Magic Missle you can spread out the 5 missiles to 5 different targets.

Thunder999
2020-04-07, 12:37 PM
Fell drain magic missile is mostly good because it's no save and no attack roll energy drain.
I think it has to be multiple targets, but I've also seen people claim multi round spells (especially kelgore's grave mist) deal a negative level with each instance of damage and I'm not sure why magic missile's multiple damage instances wouldn't work.

Bucky
2020-04-07, 12:52 PM
I like Magic Missile as a GM because of its streamlined operation in volley fire mode. I don't need to stop and calculate modifiers or any complications beyond vision. I can just say, "The head mage points at the cleric and shouts 'kill him', and he and the 5 mooks hit you with 9 total missiles for *rolls* 30 damage".

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-04-07, 12:55 PM
Fell drain magic missile is mostly good because it's no save and no attack roll energy drain.
I think it has to be multiple targets, but I've also seen people claim multi round spells (especially kelgore's grave mist) deal a negative level with each instance of damage and I'm not sure why magic missile's multiple damage instances wouldn't work.

It's the language of the feat's benefit:
"You can alter a spell that deals damage to foes so that any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level."

It's basically: dealt damage yes/no > if yes, a (single) negative level.

Since Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, etc. deals all its damage at once, it's only making that yes/no check once. Some will say that check can occur each round, such as with Power Word: Pain or Kelgore's Grave Mist, but the language of the feat doesn't support that. It only says that if the creature is damaged by the spell, that creature gains a (singular) negative level. So the feat would need to be applied multiple times to one spell for that spell to bestow multiple negative levels by virtue of that feat.

Aotrs Commander
2020-04-07, 02:40 PM
So the general consensus is that no, it isn't subpar, and it is fine as it is?

Segev
2020-04-07, 02:45 PM
So the general consensus is that no, it isn't subpar, and it is fine as it is?

I think so. Certainly how I think. It's a good staple spell that does automatic damage to nearly everything.

Zanos
2020-04-07, 02:48 PM
I'll throw out some dissent and say that I don't think it's very good. It is situationally useful to get some near-guaranteed damage on a target without SR. If you have a particularly low health or otherwise hard to hit target, like a ghost or perhaps a rogue or other high AC low HP target, it can be useful. But at low levels the damage usually isn't worth the slot, and at high levels the damage usually isn't worth the standard action. It also isn't a particularly potent base for most metamagic without some specialization or shenanigans.

Bucky
2020-04-07, 03:09 PM
Under Pathfinder rules, using magic missiles to counterspell by forcing a concentration check is more likely to work than using dispel magic for the same purpose, except maybe at CL 16+ against low level spells.

The comparison is (magic missile damage + the cast spell's level) vs your caster level, where average magic missile damage caps off at 17 at character level 9.

Oh, and unlike dispel magic, you get some chip damage regardless of whether the spell is prevented.

Ramza00
2020-04-07, 04:25 PM
So the general consensus is that no, it isn't subpar, and it is fine as it is?

It is a great thing, but not a thing to build an entire build around and expect yourself to be happy with the result for all 20 levels of Wizard. But it is great for certain levels of play as master of none, but still useful spell. Furthermore with the Gloves of the Starry Sky or a Runestaff you can always sub out spells to cast it.

Psyren
2020-04-07, 05:02 PM
I'll throw out some dissent and say that I don't think it's very good. It is situationally useful to get some near-guaranteed damage on a target without SR. If you have a particularly low health or otherwise hard to hit target, like a ghost or perhaps a rogue or other high AC low HP target, it can be useful. But at low levels the damage usually isn't worth the slot, and at high levels the damage usually isn't worth the standard action. It also isn't a particularly potent base for most metamagic without some specialization or shenanigans.

Not all first-level spells need to be their most useful at first level. Summon Monster 1 for example is rarely useful early on because it doesn't last long enough to be worth the action cost, and by the time it is, the summons are outclassed both by whatever you're fighting and by the other stuff you can summon. But later on, the cheap casting cost makes it ideal for creating disposable minions that can turn latches, stand on pressure plates, screech if something comes nearby etc.

Both of these are only situationally useful, yes - but for the price of a first-level slot, situational usefulness is fine, particularly past 5th level or so.

Thurbane
2020-04-07, 05:14 PM
It's a perfectly cromulent 1st level damaging spell.

Zanos
2020-04-07, 05:15 PM
Not all first-level spells need to be their most useful at first level. Summon Monster 1 for example is rarely useful early on because it doesn't last long enough to be worth the action cost, and by the time it is, the summons are outclassed both by whatever you're fighting and by the other stuff you can summon. But later on, the cheap casting cost makes it ideal for creating disposable minions that can turn latches, stand on pressure plates, screech if something comes nearby etc.

Both of these are only situationally useful, yes - but for the price of a first-level slot, situational usefulness is fine, particularly past 5th level or so.
I agree, but there are also spells that are better past level 1. A half-dozen, even in core.

Psyren
2020-04-07, 05:59 PM
I agree, but there are also spells that are better past level 1. A half-dozen, even in core.

Of course there are - "Par" is not "best" - rather, it means "average."

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2020-04-07, 06:11 PM
Under Pathfinder rules, using magic missiles to counterspell by forcing a concentration check is more likely to work than using dispel magic for the same purpose, except maybe at CL 16+ against low level spells.

The comparison is (magic missile damage + the cast spell's level) vs your caster level, where average magic missile damage caps off at 17 at character level 9.

Oh, and unlike dispel magic, you get some chip damage regardless of whether the spell is prevented.

Ready an action to cast Silence, centered on a point in space with them in the area of effect, if they cast a spell with a verbal component. No save, no attack roll, no SR, no check whatsoever. Being silenced during the casting of a spell with a verbal component automatically causes the spell to fail and be expended as though cast. With a 2nd level spell.

legomaster00156
2020-04-07, 06:17 PM
Ready an action to cast Silence, centered on a point in space with them in the area of effect, if they cast a spell with a verbal component. No save, no attack roll, no SR, no check whatsoever. Being silenced during the casting of a spell with a verbal component automatically causes the spell to fail and be expended as though cast. With a 2nd level spell.
That is indeed a better way to cancel a spell, as would be expected from a second-level spell as opposed to a first-level spell.

Zanos
2020-04-07, 06:17 PM
Of course there are - "Par" is not "best" - rather, it means "average."
That's fair, but I suppose I was taking a generous interpretation. Spell slot preparations are pretty limited and highly competitive, so if you want to keep the spell useful due to theming, it could probably use a small buff so that it is competitive with good spells. Everything that isn't good is bad when you're operating under a strictly limited number of choices.

Thunder999
2020-04-07, 06:20 PM
It's on par for a damaging spell of the level, that doesn't mean it's generally going to be worth casting often, but that's just because blasting is rarely the best use of a caster.

Psyren
2020-04-07, 06:55 PM
Everything that isn't good is bad when you're operating under a strictly limited number of choices.

"Situational" is not "bad" - it's "situational."

And yes, first-level slots are technically limited - but past the lowest levels that limit doesn't matter a great deal. Besides, you never know when having a few magic missiles in your back pocket might come in handy (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html) :smallbiggrin:

Elkad
2020-04-07, 10:18 PM
I still allow it to clear Mirror Images (which may not be RAW (debatable), but I feel is still RAI). So it's got a nice niche there at my table.
Edit: Of course the other RAW reading it just bypasses images, which is also good.

It never misses.
It shoots into a melee just fine.
It ignores miss chance, the "preferred" source of defense according to some guides.
It's perfect for finishing off the wounded guy reliably to let the BSF move on to the next target.
If you go before the Crusader on the first round, you can put one of them on him to kickstart his Steely Resolve pool, and the rest into an enemy.
It hits pesky Familiars with ACs the ranger can't hit with his bow.

Even without metamagic, I think it's a fine choice for a blasting spell.

Rebel7284
2020-04-08, 12:45 AM
Magic Missile is subpar for the same reason most direct damage spells are subpar. A wizard can do better things with their actions than damage the vast majority of the time. It's fine compared to other damaging spells, but you have a pretty niche situation where casting a damaging spell is the best course of action.

Somebody here mentioned Baldur's Gate. The first time I played through, I focused on direct damage (and some buffs) and did okay. Enough fireballs certainly solved problems especially with the low HP of 2nd edition. However, I gave it another play-through a couple of years back and holy-molly does effective battlefield control make things easier even by second edition rules, especially in the early levels!

aglondier
2020-04-08, 12:59 AM
At 3rd level my wizard takes Craft Wondrous Item, and for a surprisingly small amount of cash makes an item that lets him cast magic missile once per round. It becomes his default attack replacing his light crossbow and freeing up slots for battlefield control and team buffs...

Rebel7284
2020-04-08, 01:16 AM
At 3rd level my wizard takes Craft Wondrous Item, and for a surprisingly small amount of cash makes an item that lets him cast magic missile once per round. It becomes his default attack replacing his light crossbow and freeing up slots for battlefield control and team buffs...

If it's not an existing item, it's 100% based on your DM agreeing to it. Item creation GUIDELINES are not the same as rules. If your DM is okay with using the guidelines as is, may I suggest the famous use activated item of True Strike instead. :smallamused:

Now talking about existing items, I certainly wouldn't throw away an eternal wand of magic missile.

MaxiDuRaritry
2020-04-08, 01:32 AM
I still allow it to clear Mirror Images (which may not be RAW (debatable), but I feel is still RAI). So it's got a nice niche there at my table.
Edit: Of course the other RAW reading it just bypasses images, which is also good.

It never misses.
It shoots into a melee just fine.
It ignores miss chance, the "preferred" source of defense according to some guides.
It's perfect for finishing off the wounded guy reliably to let the BSF move on to the next target.
If you go before the Crusader on the first round, you can put one of them on him to kickstart his Steely Resolve pool, and the rest into an enemy.
It hits pesky Familiars with ACs the ranger can't hit with his bow.

Even without metamagic, I think it's a fine choice for a blasting spell.JSYK, you can't target someone with 100% concealment, so 50% miss chance means you can't shoot him with a magic missile.

Asmotherion
2020-04-08, 01:57 AM
sub-par? no, I wouldn't go as far. It's a good spell, at least for a blasting spell, and chains greatly in a arcane fusion (greater+arcane spellsurge), together with wings of flurry. However it is spell resistance:yes, and a simpleshield will block it, as well as forceward, amf etc.

If you want a good generic damage dealer opt for shere spells and perhaps a metamagiced cloud of knives (fell drain for example), or a thunderlance. Magic misile is situationally good for combos (in high op play; think fell drain again), and an excelent spell for a lower op game as in low op, you're less propable to encounter things imune to it.

Endarire
2020-04-08, 02:16 AM
Magic missile is better in a party of all low-level arcane casters where you simply need to do damage right now and aren't about to chance anything else. That's how our party of 5 Wizards reached level 5 and started spamming fireball instead!

But, again, MM is situational and is largely a Wizard's counter to incorporeal creatures from level 1 and a way of dealing near-guaranteed damage to targets.

Elkad
2020-04-08, 11:38 AM
JSYK, you can't target someone with 100% concealment, so 50% miss chance means you can't shoot him with a magic missile.

Displacement (spell/cloak) is the main source of that, which specifically says "you can be targeted normally".

Invisibility is the other. Beaten by a 2nd level spell, or various other things.

Running down the improved invisible darkstalker invisible-spell-obscuring-mist bunny trail is pretty rare.

Powerdork
2020-04-08, 11:48 AM
JSYK, you can't target someone with 100% concealment, so 50% miss chance means you can't shoot him with a magic missile.

Being unable to target someone with total concealment is different from being unable to target someone with a 50% miss chance, for the same reason that being banned from Subway restaurants is different from being prohibited from eating sub sandwiches.

MaxiDuRaritry
2020-04-08, 11:52 AM
Displacement (spell/cloak) is the main source of that, which specifically says "you can be targeted normally".

Invisibility is the other. Beaten by a 2nd level spell, or various other things.

Running down the improved invisible darkstalker invisible-spell-obscuring-mist bunny trail is pretty rare.You don't need Darkstalker+ for most encounters. A simple invisibility spell or the greater concealing amorpha power is fine. Dragons (the spellcasters you'll find that have blindsight etc most often) typically have better things to do than cast magic missile at you.


Being unable to target someone with total concealment is different from being unable to target someone with a 50% miss chance, for the same reason that being banned from Subway restaurants is different from being prohibited from eating sub sandwiches.The 50% was in reference to total concealment.

Powerdork
2020-04-08, 11:56 AM
The 50% was in reference to total concealment.

I was meaning to suggest that you shouldn't confuse one source of an effect as being synonymous with that effect.


Notably: Someone who has concealment is not vulnerable to a sneak attack, but someone who's got a miss chance independent of that (such as a wind wall spell) is still susceptible to it.

An Enemy Spy
2020-04-08, 12:02 PM
Magic Missile is great at finishing off a wounded enemy. My party had an absolutely brutal fight with a group of Earth Elementals and the Wizard's Magic Missile was crucial for winning because he could get what were essentially automatic kills against the ones the fighter had hit and didn't need to worry about the Elementals' high AC.

Sinner's Garden
2020-04-08, 07:06 PM
If it's not an existing item, it's 100% based on your DM agreeing to it. Item creation GUIDELINES are not the same as rules. If your DM is okay with using the guidelines as is, may I suggest the famous use activated item of True Strike instead. :smallamused:

Now talking about existing items, I certainly wouldn't throw away an eternal wand of magic missile.

A use activated item of true strike takes a standard action to use and buffs only one attack. It's not as good as you think it is.

Psyren
2020-04-08, 08:32 PM
A use activated item of true strike takes a standard action to use and buffs only one attack. It's not as good as you think it is.

You might want to reread what "use activated" means :smalltongue:

Karl Aegis
2020-04-09, 12:18 AM
Definitely the worst spell in Core. Would not recommend.

MaxiDuRaritry
2020-04-09, 12:26 AM
Definitely the worst spell in Core. Would not recommend.I would, but only on a monk with partially-charged wands.

Asmotherion
2020-04-09, 03:41 PM
Definitely the worst spell in Core. Would not recommend.

(Tenser's) Transformation is in core...

Overall Magic Missile is average, and in a low level, core only game, it's quite good for a Blasting spell


A use activated item of true strike takes a standard action to use and buffs only one attack. It's not as good as you think it is.

It's actually better than you seem to think. Activation depends on using the item (example literally given: swing a sword). Only applying to 1 attack is arguable (I tend towards that reading). but still, even one virtually undogable attack per turn is great.

Elkad
2020-04-09, 08:33 PM
You don't need Darkstalker+ for most encounters. A simple invisibility spell or the greater concealing amorpha power is fine. Dragons (the spellcasters you'll find that have blindsight etc most often) typically have better things to do than cast magic missile at you.

The 50% was in reference to total concealment.


Someone under a plain invisibility is restricted to non-direct attacks. Yeah, he can summon or something, but he'll find himself sorely limited otherwise.

amorpha? It probably should have "can be targeted" like displacement, since it's the psi version of the same thing.

MaxiDuRaritry
2020-04-09, 08:49 PM
Someone under a plain invisibility is restricted to non-direct attacks. Yeah, he can summon or something, but he'll find himself sorely limited otherwise.That's a fair enough point.


amorpha? It probably should have "can be targeted" like displacement, since it's the psi version of the same thing.That, however, is not. It should not have that caveat, because it's not anywhere in the text. They have 50% miss chance due to greater concealing amorpha? No targeting for you!

Sinner's Garden
2020-04-10, 06:58 AM
It's actually better than you seem to think. Activation depends on using the item (example literally given: swing a sword). Only applying to 1 attack is arguable (I tend towards that reading). but still, even one virtually undogable attack per turn is great.

Yes, as was mentioned, I made a knee-jerk reaction to "True Strike enchanted item" without fully considering the context.

Anyway, for the thread subject; it has the same problem that other damage spells have that they didn't scale up the same way HP did, and actually scaled down by the introduction of level caps on spells. But if you have any interest in blasting damage, you can crank it up a bit without much trouble, so it's not the worst spell ever if you're already planning to blow things up, and it's a pretty narrow utility if you're not. You can get a wand of it to take yourself out of crossbow mode at low levels, but since making magic items was also made more difficult on the caster in 3e, this doesn't qualify as a saving grace for your purposes.

el minster
2020-05-17, 01:17 AM
at low levels I could not find a better damage dealibg spell due to the fact that that you do slightly less damage than say a lesser orb but you almost always hit if you have line of sight

Kelb_Panthera
2020-05-17, 02:55 AM
You know what's the best kind of damage? The kind that's virtually guaranteed. For the first half of the level curve, that's exactly what magic missile is.

The spell, taken in absence of any kind of build, does less damage than its peers in exchange for being nigh-iresistable until spell resistance becomes common. That's a fair trade.

Incorporeal? don't care. Miss chance? don't care. Energy resistances? don't care. AC *laughs in your face.* If you aren't totally concealed and don't have spell resistance, you're taking this damage and that's all there is to it. The only exceptions are the rare enough NPCs that have access to shield or something that functions as shield.

Being first level makes it great for metamagic and items.

Not sure where you got the idea maximize et al don't work. The damage the missiles deal is a "variable numeric effect" of the spell, same as the damage dice on any other spell.

Empowered isn't stellar for a 3rd level spell but it's not garbage by any stretch. Maximized at 4 is pretty solid and twinned at 5 is kinda gnarly since it's actually a match for 1d6 on average damage output. Stacking these keeps it relevant as a damage spell as long as damage spells are relevant and you can reliably pierce spell resistance.

From items, a wand of magic missile beats the living daylights out of plinking with crossbow in the early levels and is a useful if not particularly glamorous way to conservatively contribute to minor fights later on, if you put any value on avoiding the 15 minute adventuring day. Adding it to a custom staff (yes, technically a GM approval item but I've scarcely seen one more readily allowed) is a little pricier but is nearly as good as being able to cast it at will, particularly if the rest of the staff's contents are other low-level spells that also age well and can be replaced on the (relatively) cheap when it burns out.

Finally, it's quite expensive but there's also what I like to call the magic macross option; acquire 3 wands of magic missile at CL9 and load them into a rod of many wands. It costs you 47,250 gp and only gets 16 shots but 15d4+15 of nigh-inescapable damage as a full round action is nasty. Gets a -whole- lot nastier if you craft it all yourself and get it up early, say around level 10ish. At 1,215 a shot, it's roughly the equivalent of a 5th level scroll per use.

Are there better spells in the overall? Yeah, probably. Magic Missile is a contender though. After all, unless you're gonna be spamming save-or-die spells to end the encounter, -somebody- has to chew through the enemy HPs somehow.

MaxiDuRaritry
2020-05-17, 03:13 AM
Finally, it's quite expensive but there's also what I like to call the magic macross option; acquire 3 wands of magic missile at CL9 and load them into a rod of many wands. It costs you 47,250 gp and only gets 16 shots but 15d4+15 of nigh-inescapable damage as a full round action is nasty. Gets a -whole- lot nastier if you craft it all yourself and get it up early, say around level 10ish. At 1,215 a shot, it's roughly the equivalent of a 5th level scroll per use.Toss Fell Drain onto those magic missile wands and watch enemies' stats drop like crazy.

Troacctid
2020-05-17, 03:24 AM
It's actually better than you seem to think. Activation depends on using the item (example literally given: swing a sword). Only applying to 1 attack is arguable (I tend towards that reading). but still, even one virtually undogable attack per turn is great.
If an item casts a spell, its activation time is the same as the casting time of the spell unless it specifically says otherwise in the item description (which custom items cannot do). So, you're still burning a standard action, unless you use the quickened version of the spell in the crafting, which inflates the price by a factor of 45.

You could do it as a continuous item, but then you run into the problem where extending the duration of the spell doesn't make it apply to more than one attack, which makes it effectively a single-use consumable. Which is fine, I guess, but pretty fair for the price tbh.

Aotrs Commander
2020-05-17, 07:20 AM
Truestrike is only worth it if you normal to-hit chance is less than 50% (including factoring in miss chances to that calculation), and degrades steadily your chance to hit rises (as otherwise it's mathmatically worse than hitting twice) or in VERY situational cases where you have enough time to set up one attack - sniping maybe - (in which case, get a scroll or something). It's rare enough to be basically not worth it as a normal combat spell, unless your dice rolls as consistently even worse than mine.

It warrents having it around, but only for specialised circumstances; it's like the opposite of Magic Missile in that regard.




Finally, it's quite expensive but there's also what I like to call the magic macross option; acquire 3 wands of magic missile at CL9 and load them into a rod of many wands. It costs you 47,250 gp and only gets 16 shots but 15d4+15 of nigh-inescapable damage as a full round action is nasty. Gets a -whole- lot nastier if you craft it all yourself and get it up early, say around level 10ish. At 1,215 a shot, it's roughly the equivalent of a 5th level scroll per use.

As an aside, I have long added (I think as far back as AD&D -a load of higher-level magic missile spells which do increasingly large amount of damage (the next one up, the 3rd level version, essentially does 10D4+10 and the higher level version even more and also in a 5'R burst) - if thread had convinced me that MM was under-par, I'd have ramped them up to. (You can 100% blane TIE Fighter for Enchanted Torpedo, Arcane Rocket and Thuamaturgical Bomb...!) Not seen a huge amount of use of them, though, which is among the reason I looked at MM... But there are A LOT of offenseive spell options floating around, so perhaps it's not that surprising.

3Power
2020-05-17, 02:45 PM
As an aside, I have long added (I think as far back as AD&D -a load of higher-level magic missile spells which do increasingly large amount of damage (the next one up, the 3rd level version, essentially does 10D4+10 and the higher level version even more and also in a 5'R burst) - if thread had convinced me that MM was under-par, I'd have ramped them up to. (You can 100% blane TIE Fighter for Enchanted Torpedo, Arcane Rocket and Thuamaturgical Bomb...!) Not seen a huge amount of use of them, though, which is among the reason I looked at MM... But there are A LOT of offenseive spell options floating around, so perhaps it's not that surprising.
Neverwinter Nights had Issac's lesser missile storm, which was a max 10 1d6 missiles as a 4th level spell, and Issac's greater missile storm, which was a max 20 2d6 missiles as a 6th level spell.

Crake
2020-05-18, 06:48 AM
Neverwinter Nights had Issac's lesser missile storm, which was a max 10 1d6 missiles as a 4th level spell, and Issac's greater missile storm, which was a max 20 2d6 missiles as a 6th level spell.

Spell compendium has chain missile, which is like magic missile+

You get up to 10 missiles, they all hit the same target though, but after hitting the first target, they can chain to secondary targets within 30ft of the primary target (maximum 1 missile per secondary target), so it's a great single target damaging spell, while simultaneously also being a great fell drain carrier spell.