Dual-wielding dexterity character

[Garfunkel]

Hey guys,

I've never played 5th edition, only Basic, 2nd and 3.5. After a long hiatus, getting back to playing. I only have PHB available and my GM said that we're not going to use any other stuff so keep that in mind. I'd like to create a dexterity-based character that uses two weapons in melee. It seems that elf is the obvious race choice since they get +2 to dexterity.
I
As for class, I don't know how feats have changed so I'm not sure if I should do a mix of ranger and rogue for dual-wielding feats and stealth attacks or stick to fighter or what. I don't know how long the campaign will last so a build that starts to shine at lvl 15 or something is not really useful.

Thanks for any and all help!

[stoutstien]

Hey guys,

I've never played 5th edition, only Basic, 2nd and 3.5. After a long hiatus, getting back to playing. I only have PHB available and my GM said that we're not going to use any other stuff so keep that in mind. I'd like to create a dexterity-based character that uses two weapons in melee. It seems that elf is the obvious race choice since they get +2 to dexterity.
I
As for class, I don't know how feats have changed so I'm not sure if I should do a mix of ranger and rogue for dual-wielding feats and stealth attacks or stick to fighter or what. I don't know how long the campaign will last so a build that starts to shine at lvl 15 or something is not really useful.

Thanks for any and all help!

Two weapon fighting is valid but keep in mind a few things:
-The off an attack utilize your bonus action.Something to keep in mind when you're looking at spells and other class features. so if you're looking at the rogue for example you could use your bonus action to make an offhand attack or your cunning action but not both.

- the two weapon fighting feat is not worth it until after you max dex. It allows you to use d8 weapons and +1AC which is what you get from just increasing your dexterity anyways plus all the other goodies. Feats and ability score improvements are tied into the same system.

-you can play any race you want. Stats will even out in the long run.

[airless_wing]

A potential option that I've enjoyed a lot is Swords Bard. Dual wield gives you more attacks, and therefore, more options to use your Flourishes. You can boost your AC fairly well with medium armor and the Defensive Flourish. I wouldn't bother with the dual wielder feat; boosting your Dex for your two scimitars is a better option for damage, AC, and skills. Or boost Charisma, because you are a Bard, after all.
Lvl 6 is when you can get 3 attacks per turn, and you get all your bardic inspirations back on a short rest, so you can behave like. bit of a Battlemaster, while still having fun spell options to supplement your two weapon fighting. That might seem late, but it's still fun and perfectly playable from lvl 3 onwards.

I'm running a Dragonborn Swords Bard, who's starting stats were 14 Dex, 14 Con, and 16 Charisma (point buy). ASIs when to pumping up Charisma, since more bardic inspiration means more flourishes, which means more melee damage (and support potential). He's been a serviceable (if slightly inconsistent) frontline, solid damage dealer, party buffer, and all the other fun things bards get.

[DragonBaneDM]

Hello!

First up, welcome to 5E! I hope your first game is a BLAST! Going elf sounds awesome. As for classes, I've seen dual-wielding rogues, dual-wielding fighters, and dual-wielding rogue/fighters have a blast!

I'm sure that folks will point out that original Player's Handbook Rangers can be underwhelming. However, if your group is lacking a dedicated or backup healer and you really want to be able to get someone up using Cure Wounds or by passing some Goodberries around before the fight, Ranger can be very helpful there. If you want to mutliclass (you totally don't have to!) I would choose between Ranger/Rogue and Fighter/Rogue, though. Out of the two, I think you'll be happier with Fighter/Rogue unless you're really after the healing spells that Ranger keeps in their back pocket.

But, especially for your first game, single class characters are wonderful, effective, and fun.

Since you're looking for something in the lower levels might I suggest Rogue 2/Fighter 3 as a starting point or what you're shooting to get towards? Rogue 2 unlocks Cunning Action, which is great to have for turns when you think "Y'know, I really DON'T want to attack this guy twice" or just for getting into position. Fighter 3 hooks you up with a Martial Archetype. Champion is straight up fun, Eldritch Knight hooks you up with utility, and Battle Master is still considered to be one of the most powerful base subclasses out there!

[Deathtongue]

Hey guys,

I've never played 5th edition, only Basic, 2nd and 3.5. After a long hiatus, getting back to playing. I only have PHB available and my GM said that we're not going to use any other stuff so keep that in mind. I'd like to create a dexterity-based character that uses two weapons in melee. It seems that elf is the obvious race choice since they get +2 to dexterity.
I
As for class, I don't know how feats have changed so I'm not sure if I should do a mix of ranger and rogue for dual-wielding feats and stealth attacks or stick to fighter or what. I don't know how long the campaign will last so a build that starts to shine at lvl 15 or something is not really useful.

Thanks for any and all help!If you're starting as an Elf for that sweet +2 Dexterity, I wouldn't worry too much about feats for a few sessions. You're generally best suited bumping DEX straight up to 20 -- which is critical for you since DEX serves you for defense AND offense -- which will take two ASIs. Note that you don't get feats automatically in 5th Edition, your DM has to allow them (which they do for 95% of games), and you have to select them at a level where you get an Ability Score Increase.

That said, none of the feats really help you out with two-weapon fighting more than maxing out your ASI. Not even the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

That said, if you do want to go that route I strongly, STRONGLY recommend hustling out at least five levels of Ranger with the Hunter subclass. You get Extra Attack, the Two-Weapon Fighting style, and Hunter's Mark. Those things will keep your damage competitive. Since you're just using the PHB, level 5 is a good final level for your two-weapon fighter.

[Aett_Thorn]

A potential option that I've enjoyed a lot is Swords Bard. Dual wield gives you more attacks, and therefore, more options to use your Flourishes. You can boost your AC fairly well with medium armor and the Defensive Flourish. I wouldn't bother with the dual wielder feat; boosting your Dex for your two scimitars is a better option for damage, AC, and skills. Or boost Charisma, because you are a Bard, after all.
Lvl 6 is when you can get 3 attacks per turn, and you get all your bardic inspirations back on a short rest, so you can behave like. bit of a Battlemaster, while still having fun spell options to supplement your two weapon fighting. That might seem late, but it's still fun and perfectly playable from lvl 3 onwards.

I'm running a Dragonborn Swords Bard, who's starting stats were 14 Dex, 14 Con, and 16 Charisma (point buy). ASIs when to pumping up Charisma, since more bardic inspiration means more flourishes, which means more melee damage (and support potential). He's been a serviceable (if slightly inconsistent) frontline, solid damage dealer, party buffer, and all the other fun things bards get.

Won't be available to them if they're using the PHB only for sources. Valor Bard is an option, but I don't think a necessarily great one for his preferred playstyle.

If the OP does go Ranger, I also have to make a strong preference for the Hunter subclass over the Beast Master. Beast Master in the PHB is a bit wonky, and interferes somewhat with dual wielding for the first few levels. If you're just learning 5e, it's probably not a great option.


A more "less than optimal" choice might be a Dex-based Paladin. You won't get the fighting style for dual wielding, but your off-hand attacks can still trigger smites, so you can still do great damage.

[nickl_2000]

Dual Wielding is best at in levels 1-8 or so. That is when adding in a second attack can be absolutely golden.

Your options as I see them
Rogue: Dual Wielding here gives you the benefit of having two chances to trigger your Sneak attack damage. In 5e, you can only sneak attack once per turn and you will basically be doing it all the time. If you don't trigger a sneak attack, your damage output is going to stink compared to other PCs. You will never get the fighting style that will allow you to add Dex to your damage on the second hand as a rogue though.

Fighter: You get a fighting style at level one, so when everyone else is has one attack from level 1-4 you get two full attacks, and when others are getting 2 attacks at level 5+ you get three. Once you get to level 11 the extra damage starts to fall off and not be as great though. Still, as a battlemaster you get more chance to use your maneuvers, as a champion you get more chances to crit. Overall it starts out amazing and falls off to being not as good once you get to higher level.

Ranger: This is very similar to fighters, but you get a fighting style at level 2 to add your dex mod to damage with the second attack. Using Hunter's mark as a Rangers helps to keep the damage higher at upper tiers.


If it were me, I would likely take Battlemaster fighter to level 6 for the extra attack and 2 feats. Then I would take rogue for the rest of the levels. That gives you several good options of things you can do in battle and your damage will be pretty decent all the way through. The other good thing is that this build is online at level 1 and remains that way.

[Deathtongue]

A more "less than optimal" choice might be a Dex-based Paladin. You won't get the fighting style for dual wielding, but your off-hand attacks can still trigger smites, so you can still do great damage.I definitely would not call a Dex-based Paladin a less-than-optimal choice for two-weapon fighting. Half-Elf Oath of Vengeance DEX Paladin gets a ton of great goodies from levels 1 to 11. Yes, I would very much like to do an extra 1d8 on my four attacks please.

The only snag for your build is that spellcasting will get in the way of fighting with two weapons. But as long as you aren't dual-wielding magical weapons, you can always just drop one of your weapons as a free action and use your once-per-turn Interact with an Object action to draw another weapon. Keep a bandolier of shortswords. And by the time you can have magical weapons in both hands, you can definitely have Warcaster.

[Zetakya]

I definitely would not call a Dex-based Paladin a less-than-optimal choice for two-weapon fighting. Half-Elf Oath of Vengeance DEX Paladin gets a ton of great goodies from levels 1 to 11. Yes, I would very much like to do an extra 1d8 on my four attacks please.

The only snag for your build is that spellcasting will get in the way of fighting with two weapons. But as long as you aren't dual-wielding magical weapons, you can always just drop one of your weapons as a free action and use your once-per-turn Interact with an Object action to draw another weapon. Keep a bandolier of shortswords. And by the time you can have magical weapons in both hands, you can definitely have Warcaster.

Most of the important in-combat Paladin spells don't have Somatic or Material components anyway, so a free hand is not required to cast them.

[jmartkdr]

I definitely would not call a Dex-based Paladin a less-than-optimal choice for two-weapon fighting. Half-Elf Oath of Vengeance DEX Paladin gets a ton of great goodies from levels 1 to 11. Yes, I would very much like to do an extra 1d8 on my four attacks please.

The only snag for your build is that spellcasting will get in the way of fighting with two weapons. But as long as you aren't dual-wielding magical weapons, you can always just drop one of your weapons as a free action and use your once-per-turn Interact with an Object action to draw another weapon. Keep a bandolier of shortswords. And by the time you can have magical weapons in both hands, you can definitely have Warcaster.

If you intend to save your spell slots for Divine Smites (at least in combat) you'd be fine without any feats playing this way. The smite spells aren't really worth is, and *shield of faith* is a lot better on sword-and-board paladins anyways. For emergency heals you have Lay on Hands, which doesn't technically require a free hand - you can touch with a hand that's holding something because it isn't a spell.

I won't tell you not to keep a spare shortsword or two, though.

[Garfunkel]

Oh wow, so many replies and so fast! Awesome, thanks a lot guys!


If you're starting as an Elf for that sweet +2 Dexterity, I wouldn't worry too much about feats for a few sessions. You're generally best suited bumping DEX straight up to 20 -- which is critical for you since DEX serves you for defense AND offense -- which will take two ASIs.
Noted. Dex to 20 will be 1st goal.


The off an attack utilize your bonus action.Something to keep in mind when you're looking at spells and other class features. so if you're looking at the rogue for example you could use your bonus action to make an offhand attack or your cunning action but not both.
A-ha! So that's a big difference to keep in mind, that the off-hand attack isn't automatic.


If it were me, I would likely take Battlemaster fighter to level 6 for the extra attack and 2 feats. Then I would take rogue for the rest of the levels. That gives you several good options of things you can do in battle and your damage will be pretty decent all the way through. The other good thing is that this build is online at level 1 and remains that way.
That seems to be a solid choice but both the bard and the paladin sound intriguing as well.


First up, welcome to 5E! I hope your first game is a BLAST! Going elf sounds awesome. As for classes, I've seen dual-wielding rogues, dual-wielding fighters, and dual-wielding rogue/fighters have a blast!
Thanks a lot, I'm sure it will be!

[nickl_2000]

SNIPS


That seems to be a solid choice but both the bard and the paladin sound intriguing as well.



Both are good choices and something to look at. Dual Wielding weapons on a caster, like a bard, can be annoying though. Without the feat warcaster, you cannot cast any spells with somatic components when you don't have a hand free. However, many DMs just flat out ignore this rule.

[Deathtongue]

Both are good choices and something to look at. Dual Wielding weapons on a caster, like a bard, can be annoying though. Without the feat warcaster, you cannot cast any spells with somatic components when you don't have a hand free. However, many DMs just flat out ignore this rule.As Zetakya pointed out, however, many (though certainly not all; hello Bless and Protection from Evil and Good) of the better paladin spells are verbal-only. If you're just using, say, Hunter's Mark and Wrathful Smite you're good to go.

[nickl_2000]

As Zetakya pointed out, however, many (though certainly not all; hello Bless and Protection from Evil and Good) of the better paladin spells are verbal-only. If you're just using, say, Hunter's Mark and Wrathful Smite you're good to go.

True, for a Paladin it isn't a huge issue. For a bard it's a bigger issue though, which was what I was trying to emphasize.

[Zetakya]

As Zetakya pointed out, however, many (though certainly not all; hello Bless and Protection from Evil and Good) of the better paladin spells are verbal-only. If you're just using, say, Hunter's Mark and Wrathful Smite you're good to go.

Further to my earlier comment, the Paladin spells which aren't V-only tend to be Concentration anyway, so you'll tend to be casting one of them (at maximum) and then drawing your sword.

[Evaar]

I'd also like to advocate for Paladin.

It's not an obvious pick, since they don't get the fighting style, but because at later levels you get to add an extra die to your weapon attacks you get more benefit from have more attacks than most other classes.

More attacks also means more opportunities to use Divine Smite when you need it.

[CTurbo]

Dual wielding Dex character using phb only huh?

I'd go Wood Elf Hunter Ranger to 5. Start with at least 16 Dex, 14 Con, and 14 Wis.
Level 1 is not going to be very special. You still use two Scimitars or Short Swords you just can't add the Dex to the off hand yet.
Level 2 take TWF style obviously. You get Hunter's Mark which helps your damage a lot.
Level 3 take Colossus Slayer. You are dealing respectable damage to a single opponent at this point. 4d6+1d8+Dex+Dex each round after the first.
Level 4 add +2 Dex for the AC and to boost your attacks.
Level 5 adds a second attack with your main hand.

It's not worth continuing with Ranger at this point. The phb is just not very strong IMO. Favored enemy and terrain is barely even worth mentioning.

After this, I'd probably go Rogue indefinitely although 3 levels of Fighter Battlemaster could be fun to add in at some point.

Assassin is the most obvious choice of the 3 phb Rogue options. Don't expect to ever pull off a surprise round as a TWFer but you can make constant use of the other feature of gaining advantage on attacks against enemies that haven't acted yet. The level 9 Assassin feature is probably not going to be fitting for you but that would be character level 14 so not a bug deal, and you could always grab those 3 Fighter levels after Rogue 7 or 8 if you wanted.

Arcane Trickster could be really fun and would add a lot of utility. You don't HAVE to have a high Int to pull it off. Gaining 3 cantrips and wizard spell options is great.

Either way it's the base Rogue features you're really after and they're all good. Expertise, Sneak Attack, Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge, and Evasion are all great.


I agree maxing Dex should be top priority, but here are some good feat options
1. Alert - almost mandatory if you choose Assassin.
2. Mobile - you want to get to the enemy as quickly as possible. Another one that benefits heavily for Assassin.
3. Res(Con) - if you find yourself having trouble keeping concentration up for Hunter's Mark.
4. Dual Wielder - oddly enough is not at all mandatory for a TWF build but it is helpful to have once Dex is maxed. Using two rapiers feels a bit ridiculous so I personally re-fluff them as Katana or something.
5. Ritual Caster/Magic Initiate - either/both add a ton of useful utility and are probably worth it for Find Familiar alone if you didn't choose Arcane Trickster.
6. Lucky - great on every character ever