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Aleolus
2020-04-08, 05:05 PM
Hello all. Been a long time since I've posted here, but I am looking for some help. I am building a metropolis to introduce my party to in my current game, and then use as the starting point for a future game I run. I have the demographics done (both race and class), as well as a breakdown of how many buildings of different types there are, but I am needing help coming up with notable locations, as well as NPCs for those locations. I'm including the most basic information in a spoiler tag below, and will answer whatever questions you all may have as best I can. For reference, this is an island port city, outside of the rule of any kind of sovereign, and serves as a neutral territory for any on the sea (meaning there will be a fair number of pirates and other unsavory types). However, the city is ruled by one major principal: Respect and tolerance for all forms of sentient life.

Population: 167,384
Power Centers: Council of Nobles (LN), Thieves Guild (NG), Merchant’s Alliance (LG), The United Peoples (N), The Crimson Matrons (CG), Monstrous Assembly (LN), The Circle of Piety (LN), The College (N), The Grand Counsel (N)
150000 GP Limit
Assets 1,255,380
Integrated (36% Human, 19% Halfling, 17% Elf, 9% Dwarf, 6% Gnome, 4% Half-Elf, 2% Half-Orc, 7% other [35% Fae, 30% Monstrous Humanoid, 20% Giant, 6% Magical Beast, 5% Awakened/living Construct, 1% Dragon, 3% other])



NPCs by Class:
Adept: 1 (18th), 1 (17th), 2 (16th), 2 (9th), 6 (8th), 16 (4th), 32 (2nd) 828 (1st)
Aristocrat: 1 (16th), *2 (15th), *1 (14th), 2 (8th), 6 (7th), 4 (4th), 12 (3rd), 8 (2nd) 828 (1st)
Barbarian: 1 (16th), 1 (14th) 2 (8th), 2 (7th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd) 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Beguiler: 1 (15th), 1 (13th), 2 (7th), 2 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Binder: 1 (15th), 2 (7th), 4 (3rd), 8 (1st)
Cleric: 2 (17th), 2 (16th), 8 (8th), 16 (4th), 32 (2nd), 64 (1st)
Commoner: 4 (20th), 8 (10th), 16 (5th), 32 (2nd), 150,731 (1st)
Crusader: 1 (15th), 1 (13th), 2 (7th), 2 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Dragon Shaman: 2 (13th), 4 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Druid: 1 (16th), 1* (14th), 2 (8th), 2 (7th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Duskblade: 1 (18th), 1 (13th), 2 (9th), 2 (6th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Expert: 3 (20th), 1 (18th), 6* (10th), 2 (9th), 12 (5th), 4 (4th), 32 (2nd), 4969 (1st)
Favored Soul: 1 (14th), 1 (13th), 2 (7th), 2 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Fighter: 1 (18th), 1 (16th), 2 (9th), 2 (8th), 8 (4th), 16 (2nd), 32 (1st)
Imagist: 1 (17th), 1 (16th), 4 (8th), 8 (4th), 16 (2nd), 32 (1st)
Incarnate: 1 (16th), 1 (14th), 2 (8th), 2 (7th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Knight: 2 (14th), 4 (7th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Kundalini: 1 (15th), 1 (14th), 4 (7th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Monk: 1 (15th), 1 (14th), 4 (7th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Ninja: 1 (16th), 1 (13th), 2 (8th), 2 (6th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Paladin: 1 (15th), 1 (14th), 4 (7th), 8 (3rd), 24 (1st)
Ranger: 1 (14th), 1 (13th) 2 (7th), 2 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Rogue: 1 (20th), 1 (16th), 2 (10th), 2 (8th), 4 (5th), 4 (4th), 16 (2nd), 32 (1st)
Samurai: 1 (14th), 1 (13th), 2 (7th), 2 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Scout: 2 (13th), 4 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Shugenja: 1 (16th), 1 (14th), 2 (8th), 2 (7th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd) 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Sorcerer: 2* (15th), 4 (7th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Soulborn: 1 (16th), 1 (15th), 2 (8th), 2 (7th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Spellthief: 1 (15th), 1 (13th), 2 (7th), 2 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Spirit Shaman: 2 (15th), 4 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Swashbuckler: 1 (16th), 1 (14th), 2 (8th), 2 (7th) 4 (4th), 4 (3rd) 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Swordsage: 1 (15th), 1 (14th), 4 (7th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Tantrist: 1 (17th), 1 (13th), 2 (8th), 2 (6th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Totemist: 1 (16th), 1 (14th), 2 (8th), 2 (7th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Truenamer: 1 (14th), 1 (13th), 2 (7th), 2 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Warblade: 1 (15th), 1 (13th), 2 (7th), 2 (6th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Warlock: 1 (16th), 1 (14th), 2 (8th), 2 (7th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Warmage: 2 (15th), 4 (7th), 8 (3rd), 16 (1st)
Warrior: 1 (19th), 1 (18th), 1 (17th), 1 (16th), 4 (9th), 4 (8th), 16 (4th), 32 (2nd), 8292 (1st)
Wizard: 1 (17th), 1 (14th), 2 (8th), 2 (7th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)
Wu Jen: 1 (16th), 1 (15th), 2 (8th), 2 (7th), 4 (4th), 4 (3rd), 8 (2nd), 24 (1st)

Xervous
2020-04-09, 09:54 AM
At a glance you’re probably looking at 0-2 notable structures or districts per power group.

The Council of Nobles (LN) begs a parliament building or similar. But hold on, no sovereign holds sway over the island, what makes a noble a noble? Are these just the high end merchants? Presence of nobles all but mandates a nobles’ district with a smattering of famous attractions.

Thieves Guild (NG) (NG is odd here as you’re generally looking out for #1 by stepping on others when thieving. Can’t really see an obvious pitch for generic thieves guild as XG) could have its hideouts or popular so-busy-can’t-eavesdrop places for meetings.

Merchant’s Alliance (LG). Official building at the very least. As a trade port beholden to no ruler coin is king and we’re looking at the biggest fish of the pond here. Most likely in a central location with a big square and statue nearby.

The United Peoples (N) haven’t a clue what this is. Big gathering hall/use a local stadium/theater for speeches?

The Crimson Matrons (CG) - needs more info

Monstrous Assembly (LN) - what should probably be the most exotic and possibly one of the bigger structures given who they might need to accommodate. I can see this place possibly offering exotic lodging, doubling as a place of official business and registration (okay Mr Vampire we need to take your prints, please bite this clay. Hah. More realistically they’d just use traceable magic baubles or the like).

The Circle of Piety (LN) - highest temple in the land.

The College (N)-library, museum, you’ve got options

The Grand Counsel (N) another parliament building?

Aleolus
2020-04-10, 06:24 AM
At a glance you’re probably looking at 0-2 notable structures or districts per power group.

The Council of Nobles (LN) begs a parliament building or similar. But hold on, no sovereign holds sway over the island, what makes a noble a noble? Are these just the high end merchants? Presence of nobles all but mandates a nobles’ district with a smattering of famous attractions.

Thieves Guild (NG) (NG is odd here as you’re generally looking out for #1 by stepping on others when thieving. Can’t really see an obvious pitch for generic thieves guild as XG) could have its hideouts or popular so-busy-can’t-eavesdrop places for meetings.

Merchant’s Alliance (LG). Official building at the very least. As a trade port beholden to no ruler coin is king and we’re looking at the biggest fish of the pond here. Most likely in a central location with a big square and statue nearby.

The United Peoples (N) haven’t a clue what this is. Big gathering hall/use a local stadium/theater for speeches?

The Crimson Matrons (CG) - needs more info

Monstrous Assembly (LN) - what should probably be the most exotic and possibly one of the bigger structures given who they might need to accommodate. I can see this place possibly offering exotic lodging, doubling as a place of official business and registration (okay Mr Vampire we need to take your prints, please bite this clay. Hah. More realistically they’d just use traceable magic baubles or the like).

The Circle of Piety (LN) - highest temple in the land.

The College (N)-library, museum, you’ve got options

The Grand Counsel (N) another parliament building?

OK, so each of those, except the Grand Counsel, is a "Governing Body," a specialized, relatively small scale political group that addresses the needs and problems of a specific type of citizen. The Council of Nobles governs the aristocrats, the Thieves Guild the lower class (and the reason I have them as a Good alignment is their leader, and by extension the group as a whole, is modeled loosely after Arsene Lupin, the Gentleman Thief. They only steal from those who deserve to be stolen from), the Merchant's Alliance the buisness owners of various types, the Union (for short) is a laborers union that addresses issues for the working class, the Crimson Matrons are the proprietresses of the largest brothels in the city, the Monstrous Assembly is for all of the non-humanoid residents, the Circle of Piety actually covers all citizens spiritual issues, and the College is for arcane casters. The Grand Counsel is the official political body for the city, addressing problems and needs that affect a large portion of the citizens, and consists of three elected representatives from each governing body.

Xervous
2020-04-10, 08:54 AM
The Council of Nobles governs the aristocrats, again, what’s a noble when there’s no royalty?

the Thieves Guild the lower class (and the reason I have them as a Good alignment is their leader, and by extension the group as a whole, is modeled loosely after Arsene Lupin, the Gentleman Thief. They only steal from those who deserve to be stolen from) misleading name, I’d expect your players to be confused at first too. Theft is still theft, a chaotic action in violation of laws of ownership unless theft is legal in certain scenarios due to topsy turvy laws, or it’s just taxation. Sounds more like a beggar’s guild.

Immediate responses in the quote.

For additional avenues of thought to wander down consider how each group came into power and prominence. Without a proper history placing a group where it currently is a cursory investigation by players will seize upon the obvious gaps and strain verisimilitude. A proper history can also establish the significance of an otherwise dull or standard location. If you have access to it the Eberron sourcebook City of Stormreach may be inspirational in how it details the history, the development of factions and how pieces of the city fit together (though I have my suspicions you may already have devoured that material).

What was the city founded as? Outpost->trade stop-> trade nexus? Did it start as a group of philosophical or religious exiles? Is the tolerance for all sentients driven by actual goodness of heart or is it more an expression of greed that no coin will be turned away?

Palanan
2020-04-11, 09:32 AM
Yeah, the part about only stealing from "those who deserve to be stolen from" doesn't hold up, not in principle and not in practice. Thieves steal from whomever they can, whenever they can, and even if there's an organization dedicated to a Robin Hood approach, there will still be a host of thieves operating on their own.

This in turn makes me wonder what kind of law enforcement this city has. Does each of the various councils and governing bodies have its own military or paramilitary force? Is there a joint policing force, and if so who controls it? How effective is this force? Is it able to control the pirates when they're ashore? Is there any kind of intelligence service that provides information to the policing force and/or the various councils?

Beyond this, a population of forty thousand seems much too small for a city that seems to be at the crossroads of trade, with a deliberately open-borders policy and a uniquely tolerant ethos. I'd expect this city to be swollen with traders, refugees, preachers, revolutionaries, mercenaries and a host of others, to say nothing of the ships' crews in port. I could see this city's total population easily exceeding 100,000, with more on a seasonal basis when fishing and trading fleets come through.

Also, as recommended above, developing the city's history will give you a better sense of when and why it was founded, which will lead naturally to a better understanding of what structures were built first and how the city grew around them. I would expect some sort of "Old Fort" at the heart of the city, perhaps surrounded by a more prosperous old-money district, with a wide halo of shops, temples, trading houses, and other small-scale commerce, with a thick fringe of shantytowns on the outskirts. Don't neglect to consider the island's terrain and how that would affect the spread of construction and commerce over the centuries.

Finally, how does this city defend itself from outside attack? Does it issue letters of marque to the pirates in time of crisis, or does it have some other form of defense? How well do the various guilds and councils work together? Would one or more of the guilds try to ally with invaders, seeking some advantage for themselves that they couldn't manage through domestic politics? And is the city entirely dependent on shipping to provide it with essential foodstuffs and supplies? If so, how can the city ensure steady supplies if a hostile fleet is enforcing a naval blockade? Has this happened in the past, and what effects did it have on the city's subsequent history?

If you can answer these questions, you'll be able to fill in some of those blank spaces which players always seem magnetically drawn to, and you'll find yourself coming up with a host of other ideas along the way.

.

Aleolus
2020-04-11, 09:44 AM
OK, so here is a rough synopsis of the main event in the city's history, as I am currently seeing it (keep in mind, all of this is still in progress, and so can be changed at any point).

Ages ago (haven't decided how long), Kandis was a small pirate port town on an island in the middle of the ocean. Most of the people who called it home were ruffians and scoundrels, and the only ships that dared to pull into port were pirate vessels. That is, until a captain intercepted a noteworthy message. Seven kingdoms had been at war for a very long time, and they all wanted to end it, but none of them could agree on a place to meet to do it, due to a deep seated mistrust and suspicion of the other kings. Once he learned this, the captain saw a chance for not only himself, but all of his kinfolk to profit quite nicely for a very long time. He and six other captains each went to the seven kingdoms and arranged a meeting with the monarch there. Once there, they gave them an offer; 'We will let you use our home of Kandis for your peace talks if you will agree to three terms. First, a royal decree, signed by all seven of you, officially declaring Kandis a neutral and free area, which no sovereign shall ever seek to claim ownership over from this day until the end of all days. Second, absolution from all piratical crimes committed by (the seven captains and their crews). Finally, a modest financial donation, to ensure that Kandis is prepared to accommodate their royal status'. The monarchs, not having any other options, agreed, albeit reluctantly for some of them. And that was what put Kandis on the map as more than just a seedy pirate port, and allowed it to grow into the free trade city it is today. As for the nobles/aristocrats in the city, they are all descended from one of those seven pirate captains and their officers.

As for the thieves guild, I was considering adjusting it to be CG, but the main thing for them is that they only steal from people who deserve it, mostly thieves who aren't part of the guild itself or crooked businessmen or the like. Theft in and of itself actually isn't against the law here (given it's origins), but if you get caught stealing the person you were stealing from has the right to deal with you however they feel appropriate (within reason for the theft you were caught committing)

Palanan
2020-04-11, 10:15 AM
Hm.

If your heart is set on that founding story, fair enough, although a few things occur to me.

First, the island would need to be relatively close to the landmass for it to be an effective meeting place; otherwise the journey would take too long for the various kings, and would present too great a risk from storms, other pirates, oceanic monsters, etc.

It strains credibility that the pirate island is the only place where the kings could meet, unless they collectively control the entire continent in question. Peace talks are usually held on neutral territory when possible, but a certain degree of respectability and decorum is usually felt to be called for, so "seedy pirate island" feels a little too infra dig.

I also feel like the kings would resent being forced to pay for their summit and to absolve all pirate crews of past crimes. Most monarchs would be highly offended by this offer, and probably most of the pirate captains would leave the royal audience without their heads, and/or other bits as well.

So, as a founding story, this isn't entirely convincing. But as a founding myth, which the current city rulers proclaim to be history, it has potential. This would be the rather romanticized official version of what, in practice, was a messier and far less noble affair. I could see one of the kings making the pirates a counteroffer, to help him launch a surprise amphibious assault against one of his competitor kings, and then granting the pirate island a sort of limited legitimacy with letters of marque and tax-free trading status. Most sailors only turn to piracy out of desperation, and they know up front they only have a few years of life before the law catches up with them, so an opportunity to go straight, or vaguely straight-ish, could be tempting--as well as the very real loot they could gain while serving in the amphibious invasion.

After that, well, large governments have a way of annexing smaller principalities, and signed documents have a way of disappearing when it's convenient; so I could see this kingdom exerting control over the pirate island, to the point of a rapid takeover and installation of a full garrison and naval base. That would put the kingdom's naval assets out of easy reach from the other kingdoms and give a strategic advantage, which would help bring the other kingdoms to the bargaining table--which, conveniently, would be at the former pirate island, now a "trading protectorate" of the crown.

From there, the island could develop semi-autonomous status, build itself into a powerful trading state of its own, and outlive the kingdom that originally installed the garrison and naval base. The ruling elites may have been descended from pirates and assorted riffraff, but now they want to rewrite history to give their ancestors a heroic tinge--and in the meantime they want to protect their own shipping interests from piracy, so the pirates allowed to anchor offshore are effectively privateers in service to the island's ruling elites, preying only on commercial competitors.

That's one approach that seems more plausible to me, but of course it's your campaign and ultimately up to you.

.

Aleolus
2020-04-15, 06:35 PM
OK, so some updates. I've increased the population to 167,384, which puts the city at roughly 6 square miles. I've also revised the history so that the kings approached the pirates, offering them legitimacy as well as a few other things as long as they agreed to build a place for the kings to meet and enact some form of law, for the purpose of improving the respectability of the community. I'm still ironing out the details and there are probably a lot of holes I still need to fill, but I'm hoping this will work better. My end goal is to have a city where no one is judged by any standard other than the actions they take (even creatures like drow and orcs and the like are given a chance to show they aren't like their typical kin)

Xervous
2020-04-16, 07:12 AM
Still not seeing how everything works out with the thieves guild as described. If it falls to the victim to deliver punishment I guess they deserved to be robbed because they couldn’t identify the thief, or overpower them in the act. Too poor to hire a mage to discern the identity of the thief? Oops that’s too bad, thievery is legal so no help from officials. In such an environment I expect residents to meet attempted theft with overwhelming force up to and including manslaughter.

Unless you have the thieves guild running some secret China grade police state to ensure all theft falls within their arbitrary definition of acceptable, theft being legal will make the city a meat grinder that chews up the poor and downtrodden.

Either it’s legal and it’s a tax, or you have some degree of anarchy. “LUL ecksdee pirate town theft legal” sounds like a terrible place for me to live as a tradesperson, a questionable destination as a merchant, and an amazing place to visit as a wandering klepto.

Aleolus
2020-04-17, 10:36 PM
So, here is what I am thinking regarding that. Members of the guild have special licences granting them permission to engage in thief-related activities, however, whenever one of them is caught, their activities are reported to the guild. If they weren't acting with guild authorization, then the guild punishes them however they see fit, up to and including expulsion (which opens the door for the guards to deal with them). So unless someone hires the guild to do a job (not a cheap endevor), they stay pretty quiet