Spell Choices For My First 5E Character

[Thialfi]

The whole shelter in place thing has finally convinced my gaming group to let the son of our usual DM run us through some online 5E gaming. It's my first real experience. I've done my best to familiarize myself with the ruleset and look up online recommendations for my character. We've been gaming together for almost 40 years and we usually still play 2E. 5E is the first ruleset that I've seen that I actually believe is better than the game I grew up with.

Anyway, I decided to play a tiefling red dragon sorcerer. Her parents made the poor choice to get into a bargain with some cultists of Tiamat, so her father's soul got claimed and her mother gave birth to quintuplet girls (one red, one blue, one green, one white, and one black) before dying. She was adopted by a family of dwarven smiths, so I went guild artisan background and gave her Fire Bolt, Shocking Grasp, Mage Hand, and Mending as cantrips. She's about to hit 3rd level and I'm looking at spells. I see a lot of recommendations that don't include suggestion. Is that because the power of this spell is very DM dependent? I actually see more recommendations for things like hold person and blindness. I might be missing something buy how is suggesting "Your life is so full of violence. You should sit there and think about your life choices for a good long while" not way better than both of those spells? And that's not even getting that creative.

Is there any reason for a sorcerer to keep anything other than shield as a first level spell once she gets to 5th level or so? Right now she has burning hands, sleep, and shield.

Invisibility, Mirror Image, and Misty Step all look good too, but I don't want too many defensive spells.

When she gets to 5th, fireball is a must and then haste and hypnotic pattern look really good too.

I was going to go with Twinned Spell and Heightened Spell as her metamagic choices.

Any recommendations for a long time player but 5E noob?

[Aeriox]

The main problem with suggestion is how dm dependent it is, mostly because of how the suggestion has to be “reasonable.” One dm might think your example suggestion is worded to make it sound reasonable, but that it would only work on something that had a reason not to fight you. If it’s an animal protecting its kids, for instance, the dm might just say it doesn’t work. Also, most dms will generally (in my experience) only allow the effect if it isn’t that good. Hold person can be really good because the paralyzed condition gives any melee attacker a crit, which can essentially win encounters (especially with a paladin or a rogue).
Honestly, the spells you mentioned are all good. Scorching ray is a good choice for damage, especially since I assume you’re picking fire for your ancestry. Magic missile is also a decent choice for a first level spell that you could keep, since auto hitting can come in handy. Phantasmal force and web are probably the two other second level spells I would recommend taking a look at.

[Mercurias]

I see a lot of recommendations that don't include suggestion. Is that because the power of this spell is very DM dependent? I actually see more recommendations for things like hold person and blindness. I might be missing something buy how is suggesting "Your life is so full of violence. You should sit there and think about your life choices for a good long while" not way better than both of those spells? And that's not even getting that creative.

Suggestion is a really solid spell, and if you have something like Heighten Spell in your metamagic that can force them to save at a disadvantage, that's entirely fine and dandy. If you have subtle spell, you can also use it socially. I think people recommend spells with a lot more reliable effects on Sorcerers specifically because they can push those effects with things like Twin Spell. If you wanna roll with Suggestion and you think your DM will play along, then there's no issue at all.


Is there any reason for a sorcerer to keep anything other than shield as a first level spell once she gets to 5th level or so? Right now she has burning hands, sleep, and shield.

Depends on the spells! I tend to thing using them for 'utility' spells like Expedient Retreat or Fog Cloud at higher levels, because those effects stay good at any level and raw damage skills at level 1 tend not to scale super well. Normally I would even say that Shield isn't the greatest choice, but as a Draconic Sorc you're gonna have enough of a bump to your AC and hit points that it's a solid choice too. You might also pick Charm Person and/Or Disguise Self as well!



Invisibility, Mirror Image, and Misty Step all look good too, but I don't want too many defensive spells.

They are! I would pick two of the three. Mirror Image is choice because it's concentration free defense, but in terms of utility you might get more out of Invisibility and Misty Step.


When she gets to 5th, fireball is a must and then haste and hypnotic pattern look really good too.

They both are, but honestly I would get EITHER Haste OR Hypnotic Pattern unless you have spell slots to burn. Haste is great with Twin Spell to make your melee characters into buzzsaws, but Hypnotic Pattern can end entire encounters in the right circumstances.


I was going to go with Twinned Spell and Heightened Spell as her metamagic choices.

Sounds great! Those will go well with a lot of the spells you've talked about!


Any recommendations for a long time player but 5E noob?

To be entirely honest, I think all of your choices are solid. You've got a mix of really good blasts, really good controls, and really good ally buffs along with metamagic that enhances them. Most of them match that super-hypnotic-and-powerful dragon charisma thing you're playing at with the character, too!

[D&D_Fan]

There is a new cantrip called Sapping Sting. It can cause an enemy to fall prone which is good for any of your more straighforward sword swingers. Unfortunately it deals pitiful damage and requires a saving throw, not to mention shorter range. Still it is good agains flying targets, and can cause legendary monsters to burn through legendary resistance to avoid it's effects. It is new, so there and many review for it. It isn't really well known. You should also ask your DM about if you can use it If you want to use it, since it is presented as a Dunamncy spell in the Wildemount setting.

[Keravath]

Your ideas on what spells to take are all solid.

Suggestion is a great spell. It can be twinned since it only affects one creature which can enhance its utility. One of the main limitations of sorcerers is their limited number of spells known. As mentioned, the main issue is that it is DM dependent.

The key part of the description is:
"The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto
a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell."

Looking at your suggestion:
""Your life is so full of violence. You should sit there and think about your life choices for a good long while"

If a creature is in the middle of combat would the course of action to sit down and think about their life choices sound reasonable? I tend to think no but this is where DM discretion comes into play. Could a suggestion like "You are needed more at the city gates. Go there as quickly as possible." work? ... possibly since even in combat the creature might realize that some other course of action where they are needed somewhere else might make more sense. Some DMs would allow your original suggestion, others might thing anything sending the character away from combat might be unreasonable.

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As for your other spells ... Hold Person is very effective if you frequently encounter humanoids. Less useful or useless if you always fight monsters. Can be campaign dependent but it is awesome when it works. Blindness is extremely useful since it does not require concentration. You can cast it as a debuff while maintaining concentration on something else like hypnotic pattern or haste.

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Misty step is an extremely useful escape spell. It can get you out of being grappled or restrained which can often be a bad situation for a caster.

Hypnotic pattern can be a game changer in many encounters if most of the opponents fail.

Another first level spell you will probably want is absorb elements from Xanathar's. This spell is a reaction that will give you resistance to a specific type of damage for a turn. It is an option that can halve damage from spells like fireball as they are cast on you.

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Having started playing with AD&D .. I find 5e to be the best version of the game yet. Most balanced, feels very much like the original versions without being overly complicated. Some of the biggest changes are things like bounded accuracy and the action economy so that a mass of level 1s is a real threat to a level 20. Magic items only range as high as +3. The concentration mechanic for spell casters is generally really good and really helps balance out their abilities with the other classes.

Finally, if it fits your character concept, you could consider a couple of levels multiclassing into warlock since it can provide some cool abilities that work well with sorcerer. Another option down the road might be to take the ritual caster feat to acquire access to wizard rituals (usefulness depends on whether there are actually any wizards in the party already).

[DrKerosene]

Generally solid, I do have a few questions/suggestions.

Why do you want Shocking Grasp? If it’s the escape feature, that is more consistently served by the Disengage Action. If you like zapping metal armor guys, or want to prevent some bosses from using weird and powerful Reactions, then it’s cool. As a mage, this may encourage you to get into melee when you shouldn’t, so it might end up being a trap if you’re unlucky.

You do know Twinned does not work with Fireball, right? Unless you’ve already checked with your DM, then cool. Otherwise, Twinned Dragon’s Breath.

Blindness/Deafness is a non-concentration spell with a duration, so it’s great if you can make one or two enemies Blind for a while (twinning increases the chance of at least one enemy failing).

I can see how Twinned Suggestion might end up being an amazingly clutch spell in an intrigue scenario, and you could develop a racket reselling horses on the side, but I’ve been incredibly disappointed with it’s use as a Player. One issue is the Wisdom Save is common and usually okay for most enemies/NPCs (and good on most bosses). An alternative option is Phantasmal Force, which makes the target believe something exists. If you get the Subtle Spell metamagic, that works well with PF, and the Intelligence Save/Investigation check is a lot less common for enemies to have proficiency with. Still very DM dependant, but doesn’t rely on language being shared (so animals and dumb aberrations should be a cakewalk), and has a larger range too.

The spell Magic Missile should allow you to garuntee an execution of a downed enemy. Each missile should trigger one of the three death saves, but check with your DM. Similarly, it should force three Concentration checks from an enemy caster, so it’s a good anti-caster spell.

Haste should allow a Rogue to ready one of their attack actions for after their turn, which would allow for a second triggering of Sneak Attack Damage in the same round. Check with the DM though.

I second the spell Absorb Elements. If it saves you 11+ HP for a first level slot, you basically got to save one or two Cure Wounds spells (as a reaction) from the Cleric. Also it made the difference for one of my characters between falling unconcious and instant death in a boss fight.

If your DM permits access to it (or you can access it via some other method) the first level spell Protection From Good & Evil is a pretty good one to Twin due to no benefit from upcasting. Also Dissonant Whispers, Hex, and Healing Word, if we’re thinking of spells that aren’t normally on a Sorcerer spell list.

For second level spells, Enlarge/Reduce might be novel, if you can target an ally and enemy with each effect. And Levitate is another spell that doesn’t benefit from up-casting but could be Twinned, lift up two melee-only enemies and eventually drop them for 6d6 falling damage each.

Crown Of Madness is an option, so is Spider Climb.

I think Dragons Breath would be amazing, and a substitute for Fireball without needing Careful or Energy Substitution (Unearthed Arcana Metamagic option), hit yourself and your familiar, double breath weapons in the same area (or from opposite sides).

For third level spells, you should be able to Twin a Counterspell, technically. Though you’d probably need to tell your DM you want to try to do that.

[Thialfi]

Thanks for your feedback. I have DMed with the same group all my life, so I haven't really run into problems with spell interpretations. My 5E DM is technically a new DM (even though I've known him since he was born), so maybe straight forward is the way to go.

I rolled her with 4d6 drop the lowest so her scores are Str-12, Int-13, Wis-12, Dex-12, Con-15, Cha-18. I was thinking of boosting her charisma to 20 at 4th. Is Infernal Constitution worth it at 8th to bump her con to 16 and gain the resistances?

I like the idea of blindness because it works on almost everything and I have no idea what our DM is going to throw at us. The saving throw every round is not ideal though.

I want to play her as conflicted. Cherishing the lawful good dwarven upbringing from her adoptive parents while warring with the red dragon part of her soul that wants to see the world burn and fills her with anger. So I want a few fire spells in her arsenal at all time.

I probably picked shocking grasp out of inexperience. I wanted to have something for melee and I didn't like the idea of giving up my action with disengage.

Is create bonfire a cantrip I could use for battlefield control? You look at it and think out of combat applications, but I wonder how useful it would be now that I'm actually gaming with 5 foot squares.

I never thought of levitate as an offensive spell. That's awesome. I guess that's my 2E thinking showing through. Sort of a poor man's reverse gravity. Works on everything that doesn't have a good ranged attack or is under a really low ceiling. I think I have another choice to consider since versatility should be the hallmark of sorcerers since their spell selection is so small.

[DrKerosene]

Is Infernal Constitution worth it at 8th to bump her con to 16 and gain the resistances?

I like the idea of blindness because it works on almost everything and I have no idea what our DM is going to throw at us. The saving throw every round is not ideal though.

I probably picked shocking grasp out of inexperience. I wanted to have something for melee and I didn't like the idea of giving up my action with disengage.

Is create bonfire a cantrip I could use for battlefield control? You look at it and think out of combat applications, but I wonder how useful it would be now that I'm actually gaming with 5 foot squares.

Infernal Constitution? Probably a decent choice. Poison is one of the most common damage types, followed by fire and cold in that order, IIRC. So you could probably skip that level 1 Absorb Elements spell if you took that feat.

Though I feel like pointing out Warcaster might be good if you want to maintain Concentration and shoot Cantrips for Opportunity Attacks.

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Combat is typically supposed to last about 3 rounds, so if you Blind an enemy that just went before you in the Initiative Order, and your team gangs up on that target before their next turn, it should be a good debuff.

On the other-hand, Constitution is rarely a bad stat for enemies/NPCs. I don’t like recommending spells that do nothing if they fail, but this is a duration debuff without requiring Concentration.

Also, see if you can ask the DM for a Gem Of Brightness, in which case you can probably choose a different spell known.

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Shocking Grasp can prevent an enemy from using Counterspell, or other cool abilities, which is great. But if you really just want to flee from something without getting attacked, Shocking Grasp has a chance to miss where Disengage should simply work in almost all scenarios.

Also, a Silence spell would prevent Shocking Grasp (and most spells) from being cast. The number of things that can attack you despite using Disengage should be an incredibly short list.

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Create Bonfire should be a decent Cantrip if you don’t have too many spells competing for Concentration (like Haste). If another Party Member is able to consistently lockdown an enemy, with Entangle, Hideous Laughter, Hold Person, the Sentinel feat, etc, it gets to be really good, and allows you to follow-up by casting Firebolt at the enemy in the Bonfire for multiple instances of damage.

One issue is the damage triggering on the enemies turn, which can be easy for a DM to forget (a lot of people seem to have this issue with using the spell Moonbeam), so you may have to be vigilant about that.

I’m not too aware of monsters that should really shy away from a Bonfire due to damage vulnerability, and without narrow hallways being 5-10ft wide, I don’t imagine it would meaningfully affect the ability of melee-creatures to get up against at least one Party member.