Yes, this is another thread about V's gender

[Lord_Xarallon]

Have Rich actually decided a gender for V?

Just wondering...

[Lira]

We really have no way of knowing that. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't, but I don't think he's ever said if he's made a choice.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Have Rich actually decided a gender for V?

Just wondering...

Well, one rumor around here is that originally, V was supposed to be a male, a parody of those "LOTR" elves. But too many people couldn't figure it out, so Rich just made V androgynous.

[shadowdemon_lord]

If you read the first 40 or 50 comics again you'll find a couple of instances of people refering to V as a male.

[FujinAkari]

Well, one rumor around here is that originally, V was supposed to be a male, a parody of those "LOTR" elves. But too many people couldn't figure it out, so Rich just made V androgynous.

For Note: This isn't a rumor.

Rich explicitly stated that V started as a male in "Dungeon Crawlin' Fools" but that he saw people debating the issue on the forums and decided to run with it. I don't ever remember him referencing anything about LOTR elves, but he might have.

[geekyhedgehog]

refering to V as a male means nothing, that's only their own observations

[Lira]

Rich explicitly stated that V started as a male in "Dungeon Crawlin' Fools" but that he saw people debating the issue on the forums and decided to run with it. I don't ever remember him referencing anything about LOTR elves, but he might have.Slight nitpick: Rich never "explicitly stated" V started as a male, he simply said that he did have a gender for V in the beginning, but when fans didn't know what it was, he made V androgynous. Yes, I agree that V was probably meant to be male, but Rich never stated that.[/nitpicking]
For fun, I'm going to quote DCF: :smalltongue:

The character's gender ambiguity was not planned, but after seeing debates among fans on either sides of the issue, I decided to take that particular ball and run with it.

[factotum]

If you read the first 40 or 50 comics again you'll find a couple of instances of people refering to V as a male.

In comic #5 Roy refers to a group consisting of Haley, Belkar and V as "you guys". Does that mean Haley is male, too?

[Lord Zentei]

Slight nitpick: Rich never "explicitly stated" V started as a male, he simply said that he did have a gender for V in the beginning, but when fans didn't know what it was, he made V androgynous. Yes, I agree that V was probably meant to be male, but Rich never stated that.[/nitpicking]
For fun, I'm going to quote DCF: :smalltongue:


I seem to recall him letting it slip at one point, though he later edited it. :smallwink: I think it was the thread with the metagaming analysis for Miko's second battle with the Order.

Regardless, V is androgynous now, and that has been retconned. So in-universe s/he always was androgynous.

[Lira]

I seem to recall him letting it slip at one point, though he later edited it. :smallwink: I think it was the thread with the metagaming analysis for Miko's second battle with the Order.Rich uses "he" occasionally when talking about Vaarsuvius, but Rich says that it's just because in the English language "he" can be used when talking about someone who's gender is unknown, and because Rich gets sick of typing she/he, him/her, etc. So he wasn't really letting something slip... or so he says. :smalltongue:

[The Extinguisher]

I remember that. He used 'he' in the gender-neutral form.

Anyway, I do believe that V was male, then changed later.
But I remain firm in my belief that V's gender is True Neutral and his alignment is Male.

[sheepofoblivion]

.... hmmm yes, all of the things stated above are true, however, Rich says that V doesn't have a gender and if he does, then Rich will never tell the public if V is male of female... (in the FAQs) but hey, there's no solid evidence of V being either... (other than Rich calling V male) but no one seems to know (other than Haley (possibly) and v's.... "mate") V's appearance doesn't say anything either, as a Californian, I see a lot of people with long hair, and one of my brother's friends has purple hair (I have no clue why) but a thing I'm sure of is...:

V is Awesome

[monty]

I thought this had already been established. We do not know V's gender, and have no way of observing it. For practical purposes, it is as if V's gender has been placed in a sealed black box. Until the box is opened, V's gender is simultaneously male and female (and every other thing it could be, for that matter, as well as things it cannot be).

[Sequinox]

Well, V doesn't know about periods... I don't know the comic #, but when Roy wore the belt, and Haley joked to V, "It must be his time of the month all ready," V asked, "To which time of the month are you referring?" Now, that could mean it just wasn't on his (I'm using his in neutral form) mind at the time, but it could also mean he was never educated about it... Or elves don't menstruate. No clue myself.

[monty]

Well, V doesn't know about periods... I don't know the comic #, but when Roy wore the belt, and Haley joked to V, "It must be his time of the month all ready," V asked, "To which time of the month are you referring?" Now, that could mean it just wasn't on his (I'm using his in neutral form) mind at the time, but it could also mean he was never educated about it... Or elves don't menstruate. No clue myself.

Keep in mind that V apparently didn't notice Roy's gender change. Since there are other "time of the month"s (like the female werewolf joke), there is a significant potential for confusion on V's part.

[Kish]

Well, V doesn't know about periods... I don't know the comic #, but when Roy wore the belt, and Haley joked to V, "It must be his time of the month all ready," V asked, "To which time of the month are you referring?" Now, that could mean it just wasn't on his (I'm using his in neutral form) mind at the time, but it could also mean he was never educated about it... Or elves don't menstruate. No clue myself.
Or Vaarsuvius just didn't get that Haley was making fun of Roy for being a woman, because it didn't strike him/her as funny.

Actually, that's it regardless of Vaarsuvius' gender. Or were any males on this board unclear on what "time of the month" Haley meant?

[The Extinguisher]

Considering that V needs to use the washroom once a week, I get the feeling there is no 'time of the month'. Maybe 'time of the year'.

[dragongirl13]

I have personally always believed V to be female.

It turns out that the character's gender ambiguity was not planned. V was originally a guy. But when debates like this started coming up all over the message boards, the Giant made V androgynous like Pat. (Pat is an ambiguously-gendered person from some Saturday Night Live thing.) Since then, V has acquired too many feminine characteristics to be male. She doesn't have too many masculine traits to be female, though...

[Max_Sinister]

Which female traits do you mean?

And I think it will be resolved. (If V's mate should show up, it has to.)

[Migodnar]

I don't consider V as man because a man that can be mistaken by a woman so many times is not manly enough to be a man.

[Forealms]

I'm certain someone has voiced this opinion before, but now I can add a culture reference.

Even if we do know the gender of V's mate, it can't guarantee anything about V. It wouldn't be the first time I've heard of a gay wizard :smalltongue:

Somebody's probably done that joke to, but in any case, it bears repeating.

[Kurald Galain]

And I think it will be resolved. (If V's mate should show up, it has to.)

I think it won't be resolved, because that ruins the joke - and I think that V's mate will show up at some point and be ambiguously gendered in a different way.

[Grizzt]

I think V is male. Think about it:
a)Grand power(more powerful men than powerful women throughout history)
b)Men are generally more verbose than women
c)It's too 'typical' of an elf to be a woman (Hot Elf Chick) than a man.
and d) Im da rogue! sais so:)

[e) I think of V as a guy, and I'm supercool and superhot so my opinion is the truth]

[Nerdanel]

If V's mate ever shows up I expect it to solve NOTHING about V's gender. Either the mate will be androgynous, or the next debate will be about whether V's straight or not.

[Lolzords]

The only character who would be 100% certain on the gender of V would be Haley, and if you look through the comics you will see that she never refers to V as he, she, him or her.

Personally, I see V as female.

[WoDHells]

Yeah, me too.

You have to consider Belkar as well, if he knew anything about lizzard anatomy, that is
:smallbiggrin:

[Hidalgo]

Belkar did kiss V, and Belkar doesn't look gay to me.

[SoD]

But he didn't look sober to me. And V didn't look paticularly masculine at the time either...not that she looked paticularly feminine...

Yes, I said she. If people can use the androgenous version of he, then why not she as well?

I also beleive that she is not male. Probably female.

[Ecalsneerg]

Belkar did kiss V, and Belkar doesn't look gay to me.

He was drunk to the point of falling unconscious though. Who knows what a drunk dude will do?

[archon_huskie]

The answer is yes. Way back when the OoTS was still in the dungeon Rich did state that he had a gender for V. But then within the few strips that had been created People began using different gender pronouns for V in these forums. This led to the Ambiguous Gender of V.

Rich did admit this in a Thread called The OFFICIAL V's Gender Debate part 2. But that thread has since been deleted fromt he Archives.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I don't consider V as man because a man that can be mistaken by a woman so many times is not manly enough to be a man.

So says the guy with a Drow avatar, a subrace of elves distinguished from other elves by hiding indoors all the time and getting bullied by girls.
:smallyuk:

[fwiffo]

Ack, not this stupid thread again.

Just ask yourself - are elves generally stout, bulky race so that both males and females have masculine look to humans? Or are they slender, delicate race so both males and females look feminine to humans? Do I need to post Orlando Bloom's picture again?

[Duke]

I've always thought that V was a homely female, or simply did not have enough CHA points to be distinguished.

The idea that Belkar is our sole informant on the matter frightens me.

[sheepofoblivion]

maybe no one else looks in the FAQ's but the point of this is whether V does have a ... nevermind....

I always think of V as a guy, I don't really know why, just I do.

[dragongirl13]

V is supposed to be androgynous. It was what the fans were all talking about, so...

Draw your own conclusions, but I think both V and her mate are asexual.

[Umbra]

In comic #9, Roy refers to V as "V-Man" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html)

[kpenguin]

I think V is male for the simple reason that the images say so. Rich has been very consistent in drawing the male eye-line slightly higher than the female eye-line. The eye-line is the same for each member of the same gender. V shares the male eye-line. Barring any person with an eye-line of the opposite sex, this leads me to conclude that V is male.

[Hidalgo]

He was drunk to the point of falling unconscious though. Who knows what a drunk dude will do?

i still think she is a female...

[Dalboz of Gurth]

Lists of reasons V is female:

1. Fashion Discussion/Sense
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html

2. When you met nale's first group there were two women it was supposed to be a group of exact opposites. While this may not normally be a major issue in proving V is a woman, it brings me to point #3.

3. When you met nale's second group they are clearly happy that everything about Pompey is the evil opposite of V which combined with #2 strongly suggests that V's opposite MUST ALWAYS be Male.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html

However there are at least 2 other points to consider:

4. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html

V obviously corrects people on the proper titles to use: sorcerer/sorceress, and never once did V correct anyone on calling him/her a wizardress.

In fact V refers to himself very clearly as Wizard (a gender sensitive term):
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0173.html

5. I'm almost positive at one point the gender he is used. Combined with past comics others mentioned that I cannot find I do believe V has been referred to as a he.




Conclusion: V obviously uses an unlimited/unrestricted gender changing belt that works every time (s)he slips it on regardless of the fact most belts usually only work once on any one person.

[Zhanghia]

Why does V even -HAVE- to have a gender? If anything, this is exactly what he would do to throw a curveball like he's done before. Why does V have to have a gender, because nature dictates it so?

This is AD&D; The limits are endless. Just you watch; His 'mate' doesn't have to be 'intimate', they just have to love each other and what's purer than that -- love without lust?

[And yes, I realize 'his', it's part of the english lanuguage and applies to both genders, as discussed earlier in this thread]

[Lira]

...
I know I shouldn't bother, but I'm going to dispute several people's claims of "V is [insert gender here]".
*cracks fingers*
Let's go:

In comic #9, Roy refers to V as "V-Man" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html)*sigh* Please, read the FAQ before making comments like that. Heck, even read the thread instead of making comments like that >.< .
Q: Is Vaarsuvius male or female?

A: I will never reveal the truth! Bwahaha! Keep in mind that while certain other characters might refer to V as being male or female, that simply reveals their perception.not the actual reality of the situation.Link. (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq10)


I think V is male for the simple reason that the images say so. Rich has been very consistent in drawing the male eye-line slightly higher than the female eye-line. The eye-line is the same for each member of the same gender. V shares the male eye-line. Barring any person with an eye-line of the opposite sex, this leads me to conclude that V is male.Now here's a more interesting argument :smallsmile:! I noticed in a previous V gender thread (don't ask me which one, there are WAY too many), someone compared the eye heights and they found that V's was in the middle of the male and female eye line... but even if it wasn't, I have another plausible reason for why that doesn't prove V's gender:
Didn't the Giant say that he draws the female's faces differently to make them look "cuter"? So clearly, if he wasn't trying to make V look cute, he'd draw V with the male face type. Also:

You don't know that. You are only drawing that conclusion based on previous examples. For all you know, I deliberately decided to create a sexually-ambiguous elf; in such a circumstance, I would clearly break my own &quot;rules&quot; on how I drew them. :PLink. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=268311&postcount=58)
Lists of reasons V is female:

1. Fashion Discussion/Sense
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.htmlI don't see how it proves that V is female. S/he may have just been trying to sympathize with Haley, do you really think V cares about boot colours?
2. When you met nale's first group there were two women it was supposed to be a group of exact opposites. While this may not normally be a major issue in proving V is a woman, it brings me to point #3.You can never really get "exact" opposites, so I don't see how this proves anything. And Nale and Sabine don't have any clue what V's gender is either, so how could they get a group member with an opposite gender of V when they don't know V's gender?! Answer: They can't. So that doesn't prove anything.
3. When you met nale's second group they are clearly happy that everything about Pompey is the evil opposite of V which combined with #2 strongly suggests that V's opposite MUST ALWAYS be Male.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html
I don't quite follow... they're not happy that Pompey's a male, they're happy that Pompey has a clearly defined gender, unlike V.

However there are at least 2 other points to consider:

4. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html

V obviously corrects people on the proper titles to use: sorcerer/sorceress, and never once did V correct anyone on calling him/her a wizardress.

In fact V refers to himself very clearly as Wizard (a gender sensitive term):
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0173.htmlInteresting point, but really, who ever uses the word "wizardress"? Dictionary.com and Answers.com don't even recognize it as a real word whereas "Sorceress" is a real word.
5. I'm almost positive at one point the gender he is used. Combined with past comics others mentioned that I cannot find I do believe V has been referred to as a he.Yeah... V's been called a specific gender several times in the strip:
Should we tell him about the 350 gp worth of ink he used?
No, let him sleep it off. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html)

Hmmmm. Y'know Larry, she might have a point. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html)

In 252, V is called an "elf chick" by Nale and an "elf dude" by Sabine... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0252.html)
And etc.
We still have no proof of V's gender from that.
Conclusion: V obviously uses an unlimited/unrestricted gender changing belt that works every time (s)he slips it on regardless of the fact most belts usually only work once on any one person.
Lol. :smalltongue:

For the record: I don't know if V's a male of female, and I'm fine with not knowing until it's revealed in the comic (because I do think we'll find out one day).

[Antamar]

I think that V is male mainly for it to be a satire of LOTR and other fantasy elves were the males are androgynus and the females are perfect and beautiful in every way.

[Dalboz of Gurth]

I think that V is male mainly for it to be a satire of LOTR and other fantasy elves were the males are androgynus and the females are perfect and beautiful in every way.

You better not let Drizz't hear you call him androgynous.

[Lolzords]

He was drunk to the point of falling unconscious though. Who knows what a drunk dude will do?

That's true, I was trying to chat up my cousin at the new years party because I was blind drunk.

How embarressing.

[Dalboz of Gurth]

I can't find the response right now but someone responded to me talking about gender comments for Wizard. I said Wizardress, and it's really Wizardess for female wizards. Wizardess has been used for a while now to specify female wizard :D

I've only ever seen V use the term Wizard.

But I still believe (s)he uses an unlimited girdle of gender change ;D

[Rastafast]

V has a squared off body like a male http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html
examine the naked/behind the dragon tail art.

The Giant can retcon at will but the art looks male to me.
Look at all the women , they have rounded shoulders.

[Vella_Malachite]

Just something that's been bugging me for a while...
Regardless of V's actual gender, why do the party refer to him/her as "V-man" and "he", then put him/her in the same room as Haley...?:smallconfused:

[David Argall]

Have Rich actually decided a gender for V?


Yes, he is female, except when she is male. If you are confused about her, you will just have to study him closer.

The confusion of sex is a good running gag. Do not expect it to be resolved, even with the final comic.

[Dalboz of Gurth]

Just something that's been bugging me for a while...
Regardless of V's actual gender, why do the party refer to him/her as "V-man" and "he", then put him/her in the same room as Haley...?:smallconfused:

He's an extremely powerful elf wizard with little desires for sex, therefore he is a 'safe' roomate and a guardian to boot.

[Covenantwgw]

As I said in another thread on this subject. *sigh* I always just assumed V was female. I don't really have an explicit reason why I just thought she was. Until I'm told otherwise that's what I'm going to continue to assume.

Truth be told I wasn't even aware there WAS a question about it until I read about it here and in the prequels.

[Murderous Hobo]

Lets see:

-We once knew V was a male but due to the discussion on the forum it was changed into an unknown.
-We don't know V's gender.
-V is male because of X
-V is female because of X
-V is not male because of Y
-V is not female because of Y

I don't exactly see the conflict here.

[Nailosbane]

V's gender is subjective really, Rich plays with the terms 'elf dude/chick' beacuse that's the way the character interpret him/her, some in humourous ways. V is like any person, with both male and female traits, the funny thing is that he/she holds a favourtism to neither, and the gag is simply that no one know's if V is a male or female, so they make up their own mind about it, so it's not a mystery anymore to them, as with most, something has to have a category or bos to be in.

Elves in D&D are highly attached to their mates, monogamy is valued, but bisexuality and homosexualism is as accepted as heterosexuality (as read in the Book of Erotic Fantasy) and as V stated before and traits he/she exhibits. The gender of V's mate won't matter as V could simply be gay or bi (as Forealms pointed out before and another user too.) and all that will really be of concern is V's relationship with their mate, which is more important in my book.

I had the thought that he was male, after the Lizard Story Arc, since as Rastafast pointed out, the shoulders were square and there was no evidence of breasts (and there was with Lirial- the elven druid that traveled in the Soon group,) but after reading this thread and thinking, it could just be a simply ploy of Rich to get us to guess even more. Since it is funny to see posts of people bantering about the unknown gender of a stick-figure elf.

Male or female, V is a good character, they're loyal, amusing, and have some interesting (if long winded) opinions. the added quirk of a non-gender makes the character actually noticeable instead of being more shunted to the side, or seen as irritating.

So, as others have said, we won't find out, simply because we don't need to. The ambiguity makes the character simply V, and that's all that's really needed.

[Hood]

The ambiguity makes the character simply V, and that's all that's really needed.

Please check gender:
M
F
V

Or one of the characters could ask V directly:

:haley: Hey V, are you male or female?

:vaarsuvius: Yes.

[hyperfreak497]

Ew...I stepped in a Vaarsuvius gender debate thread...

I'm gonna go bathe off the filth now...

[Ramebriz]

i have got my own conclusion:
she is both.
He/she is a powerful magician therefore why she can't change her own sex when he/she wants?
Maybe now is a men and then it's women WHO knows?

[Dervag]

Until the box is opened, V's gender is simultaneously male and female (and every other thing it could be, for that matter, as well as things it cannot be).However, V's gender wavefunction decays exponentially as one enters the regions it cannot traditionally go, and can reasonably be described as a normalized superposition of 1/?2 male and 1/?2 female.


I don't consider V as man because a man that can be mistaken by a woman so many times is not manly enough to be a man.Well then, what, hypothetically, would he be?


Even if we do know the gender of V's mate, it can't guarantee anything about V. It wouldn't be the first time I've heard of a gay wizard :smalltongue:It will, however, make it far more probable that V is gendered opposite to V's mate.


I think it won't be resolved, because that ruins the joke - and I think that V's mate will show up at some point and be ambiguously gendered in a different way.That is exactly the gambit employed with the aforementioned Saturday Night Live character 'Pat.'


But he didn't look sober to me. And V didn't look paticularly masculine at the time either...not that she looked paticularly feminine...

Yes, I said she. If people can use the androgenous version of he, then why not she as well?

I also beleive that she is not male. Probably female.Belkar may very well be convinced V is female; Belkar is a manly-man kind of guy (despite being only three feet tall). So it may be that in his mindset, anyone that lacking in masculine qualities must necessarily be female.


So says the guy with a Drow avatar, a subrace of elves distinguished from other elves by hiding indoors all the time and getting bullied by girls.
:smallyuk:Huh? I thought his avatar was a Generic Celestial.


In comic #9, Roy refers to V as "V-Man" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html)Yes, but there's no proof of that. Roy may think V is a man. On the other hand, Haley appears to think V is a woman. So it's a toss-up.


Lists of reasons V is female:

1. Fashion Discussion/Sense
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.htmlActually, what V's saying is pretty much V's way of going "Yes. Mhm. Yup." Just from Haley's tone of voice, the fact that she felt a conundrum was obvious.


2. When you met nale's first group there were two women it was supposed to be a group of exact opposites. While this may not normally be a major issue in proving V is a woman, it brings me to point #3.Right. Since Elan, Roy, Haley, and Belkar all definitely have same-gendered evil opposites, it doesn't prove anything.


3. When you met nale's second group they are clearly happy that everything about Pompey is the evil opposite of V which combined with #2 strongly suggests that V's opposite MUST ALWAYS be Male.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.htmlAnyone with a clear gender identity is V's opposite. In that regard, at least, Julia would have been just as opposite to V as Haley was.


V has a squared off body like a male http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html
examine the naked/behind the dragon tail art.

The Giant can retcon at will but the art looks male to me.
Look at all the women , they have rounded shoulders.Well, if V is female, then she is a very boyishly figured female. We already knew that. So V's basic body shape cannot be taken as evidence.

[Jawajoey]

So: Rich had male in mind but decided on ambiguity.

That pretty much answers the question, doesn't it?

For us, we can debate all we like, we don't know. It's ambiguous. The question this time is, does Rich know. He's openly stated that V's gender is ambiguous. So there you have it. No, The Giant has not decided whether V is male or female. He's explicitly decided to not decide.