What's the power of this character?

[KAmber]

I'm trying to construct an encounter with a powerful tactician, who I want them to realize they can't beat, but I'm concerned that I'm going to pit my party of four level 3 players against a force that will crush them too fast. He's a very weak character on his own but provides many benefits to his allies. He's going to have three or four bandits(srd) as his henchmen for this encounter and I'm kinda concerned.

Giornio Vaticus
Str 10 (0) Dex 15 (2) Con 13 (1) Int 18 (4) Wis 15 (2) Cha 14 (2)

Hit points 26/26 (6d6+6)
Armor class 15
Speed 30ft
Saving Throws Int, Wis, Cha +3
Skills Arcana, History, Religion +3, Intimidation, Persuasion, Deception +6

Senses passive Perception 13

Fight For Me.
If Giorno is within 60ft of them, Giornio’s allies can use a reaction to add 1d4 to saving throws and AC for the rest of the turn if he hasn’t been hurt in at least 2 rounds.
But Not With Me.
If Giornio is within 60ft of them, Giorno’s allies get a bonus d4 to damage rolls if he hasn’t attacked in at least 2 rounds.
Can’t Hurt a Fly.
If Giornio doesn’t have any allies within 60 ft. and he doesn’t obviously pose a threat, Giornio can roll Deception(if he is actually dangerous) or Persuasion(if he really is unarmed and unable to attack and stuff) against opponents’ passive Insight. Anyone who he succeeds against can’t kill or give him a serious wound, but they can apprehend him, cause nonlethal damage, etc.
If Giornio attacks someone while they are under the influence of this ability, the effect is broken and he can’t use this ability against them again for a significant amount of time.

ACTIONS

Keep Up the Good Work.
Up to three allies within 60 ft. get 2d4+4 temporary hit points and +1 to attack rolls and save DCs.
Keep Up the Good Work can’t be used on the same allies until Giornio takes a short rest.
Defend Me!
Up to three allies within 40 feet can use their reaction to move up to their speed towards him and take up a defensive position, not provoking opportunity attacks. While they stay within 10 feet of him, he gets a cumulative +1 to AC and saving throws. (Max 3.)
Giornio can only have a maximum of three allies defending him at a time.
Like That, Fool.
Giornio grants advantage to an ally within 60 ft. on their next attack roll or skill check.
Retreat!
Giornio and each ally within 30 ft. immediately move up to their speed. For the next 10 minutes, they can use the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action as a bonus action. Any allies that make attacks while under the effects of Retreat! lose the benefit.
Unarmed attack. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit. Range 5 ft. Hit: 1 bludgeoning damage.

REACTIONS

Defend Me Better.
Giornio can force someone reroll an attack roll against him. This can only happen if an ally is in a defensive position. (See Defend Me!)

[Guy Lombard-O]

I'm not especially familiar with encounter design (since I hate DMing), but I don't see any reason that a party of four level 3 characters couldn't defeat your BBG, if all he has with him are 4 bandits (CR1/8, correct?). He's tough, but not unbeatable. Especially if the party gets the initiative on him (and I don't see any special initiative abilities in the build). His henchman could die before he ever gets the chance to even display his tactical genius, couldn't they? One maximized Shatter seems like it could clear the board of them, and leave him nearly dead.

That said, even though he's fairly tough, I don't see how the players are supposed to get the idea that he's so untouchable? His AC is decent but nothing special (looks like maybe Mage Armor?), and even with all his henchman blocking for him it's only 19-20 (very solid, but hardly impossible with a Faerie Fire and a Bless running). So he doesn't appear heavily armored. He's unarmed, I think? And you haven't mentioned any obvious spellcasting abilities, so probably no appearance of being one and posing that sort of threat? I'd think he looks like a monk? And he's really not any more dangerous than one, on his own.

I think the chances of TPK against the party aren't that high...unless you put this BBG in a highly favorable tactical situation when he's encountered, and also upgrade or multiply his henchman.

In terms of making him appear unbeatable, I think you need to do that with something other than his basic appearance and those abilities. Maybe lots of foreshadowing, some NPCs actually saying as much, NPC allies getting wiped out by him, etc.

But again, I'm definitely no expert at it. There are plenty of posters on here who actually are experts at it, but they seem to have not responded to you. Good luck figuring it out!



P.S. Players basically hate being told they "cannot beat" your BBG, and will often attempt to prove you wrong. Even when it's nigh-suicidal. I think you really need to know what you're doing with the story setup in order to get the players to take such a threat seriously, and even then it'll probably leave them stewing about it (which may well be your goal).

[Man_Over_Game]

Honestly, it looks far too easy. His stat buffs are cool and all, but the henchmen are still pretty weak.

If you want it to be a tactical concept, you'll want to emphasize on constant defensive buffs and powerful, predictable offensive ones.

Things like making one of his allies' successful attacks also knock the target prone with his reaction, or allies within 30 feet gain double the effective AC bonus when gaining 1/2 or 3/4 cover.

What you'll want to have is:
For the players to realize they're losing. To do this without dealing excessive damage or having high HP, the enemies will need to deny the players from having any effect (like through high AC or denial powers).

-For the players to recognize the captain is the primary target. The easiest way of doing this is through limited resources, like his Action, Bonus Action, and Reaction. His most powerful effects need to come from those examples, and make his passive buffs just as powerful but circumstantial (like my cover example). Passive effects generate fear ("What do you mean my arrow went *through* him?") , while active powers create action and response ("That one casted a spell! Kill him first!"). You describe wanting both results.

-A solution to deal with magic. AoE damage is crippling for a support character, so give him something similar to a paladin's aura that protects against Dex/Wisdom saving throws (he tells his allies when to dodge or to snap out of it).


I believe you really should focus on defensive powers and limited offensive ones, as the players are the ones relying on resources, not the bad guys. If you want the players to recognize they're losing, you need to force a fight of attrition, and one that's slow enough for players to recognize on their own.

Plan this to be a 7 round encounter. It'll take that long for your players to consider running.

[MaxWilson]

I'm trying to construct an encounter with a powerful tactician, who I want them to realize they can't beat, but I'm concerned that I'm going to pit my party of four level 3 players against a force that will crush them too fast. He's a very weak character on his own but provides many benefits to his allies.

What happens if they do beat him anyway? Are you prepared for him to potentially lose? If you're not prepared, don't run this encounter as written. All it would take is a few lucky rolls or a smart wizard with e.g. a Sleep spell.

[JellyPooga]

This is very much a "Wait...what?" NPC. As in, that's exactly what your players reaction will be. Too many extra rules. It's not that the rules are bad, or unbalanced, it's just that they're unfamiliar. They don't look or feel like anything PC could do and don't resonate with anything any creature in the MM can do either...it's just a heap of arbitrary rules that will leave your players feeling confused and off-balance and then because they're not super overpowered, will also leave your players wondering why they bothered trying to wrap their heads around the specifc rules for that one, specific NPC when they likely won't encounter those same rules again.

Keep it simple. Use the rules as written or as close to as possible. You'll find it easier and your players will feel more comfortable. There's nothing wrong with introducing new rules oe abilities, but don't do it en masses, likd you have here.

[Expired]

This is very much a "Wait...what?" NPC. As in, that's exactly what your players reaction will be. Too many extra rules. It's not that the rules are bad, or unbalanced, it's just that they're unfamiliar. They don't look or feel like anything PC could do and don't resonate with anything any creature in the MM can do either...it's just a heap of arbitrary rules that will leave your players feeling confused and off-balance and then because they're not super overpowered, will also leave your players wondering why they bothered trying to wrap their heads around the specifc rules for that one, specific NPC when they likely won't encounter those same rules again.

Keep it simple. Use the rules as written or as close to as possible. You'll find it easier and your players will feel more comfortable. There's nothing wrong with introducing new rules oe abilities, but don't do it en masses, likd you have here.
I agree. I would remove his abilities but give him multi-attack, improve his saves/give him Legendary Resistances (depending on the level of the party), and improve his Hit Points and AC. In addition, introduce waves of his henchmen reinforcing him at a specified round interval (this will create tension and motivate your party to defeat him before they are overrun). If you're wanting it to be a difficult battle and memorable (I like challenges so I am biased), give him and his henchmen Pack Tactics.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Fight For Me.
If Giorno is within 60ft of them, Giornio’s allies can use a reaction to add 1d4 to saving throws and AC for the rest of the turn if he hasn’t been hurt in at least 2 rounds.
But Not With Me.
If Giornio is within 60ft of them, Giorno’s allies get a bonus d4 to damage rolls if he hasn’t attacked in at least 2 rounds.
Can’t Hurt a Fly.
If Giornio doesn’t have any allies within 60 ft. and he doesn’t obviously pose a threat, Giornio can roll Deception(if he is actually dangerous) or Persuasion(if he really is unarmed and unable to attack and stuff) against opponents’ passive Insight. Anyone who he succeeds against can’t kill or give him a serious wound, but they can apprehend him, cause nonlethal damage, etc.
If Giornio attacks someone while they are under the influence of this ability, the effect is broken and he can’t use this ability against them again for a significant amount of time.

ACTIONS

Keep Up the Good Work.
Up to three allies within 60 ft. get 2d4+4 temporary hit points and +1 to attack rolls and save DCs.
Keep Up the Good Work can’t be used on the same allies until Giornio takes a short rest.
Defend Me!
Up to three allies within 40 feet can use their reaction to move up to their speed towards him and take up a defensive position, not provoking opportunity attacks. While they stay within 10 feet of him, he gets a cumulative +1 to AC and saving throws. (Max 3.)
Giornio can only have a maximum of three allies defending him at a time.
Like That, Fool.
Giornio grants advantage to an ally within 60 ft. on their next attack roll or skill check.
Retreat!
Giornio and each ally within 30 ft. immediately move up to their speed. For the next 10 minutes, they can use the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action as a bonus action. Any allies that make attacks while under the effects of Retreat! lose the benefit.
Unarmed attack. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit. Range 5 ft. Hit: 1 bludgeoning damage.

REACTIONS

Defend Me Better.
Giornio can force someone reroll an attack roll against him. This can only happen if an ally is in a defensive position. (See Defend Me!)

I like what you're trying to do with your BBG here in general, but I'd note two things - the first is that Giorno and his henchmen only get 1 action and 1 reaction, and it seems like too many of these (cool and original) abilities are vying for those limited resources. For instance, the henchmen can only either benefit from "Fight for me" or "Defend me!" using their reaction, but not both. Giorno has 4 possible Actions which are neat, in addition to his weak Unarmed Attack. But Defend Me! uses up both his whole action and his henchmen's reaction. And Like That, Fool! seems like it's too weak to use up a whole action. It's more like a Mastermind Rogue's bonus action help. I'd make more of these passive abilities (like MoG said), and at least a couple of them bonus actions.

Secondly, I would rewrite "Can't Hurt a Fly". That ability seems too much like it's robbing the players of their PCs' agency the way it's currently written. Even though it makes sense as written, 5e design usually grants the players the chance to roll for the success or failure of that kind of debuff by means of a saving throw (see the Sanctuary spell), rather than the DM rolling something and telling the PCs that they're forbidden from hurting your monster "because he doesn't look like a threat". That'll go over like a lead balloon if the PCs fight and kill all his henchmen, only to be told that they're forbidden from killing the captain of the bandits because...what, they don't want to? I'd definitely go back and remodel that ability around the Sanctuary spell.

[nickl_2000]

Sounds like a perfect situation for either legendary actions, lair across, or both.

A truly brilliant tactician closes his battlefield and uses that to how advantage

[J-H]

2 Magic Missiles and a Firebolt kill him pretty easily.

[Expired]

Sounds like a perfect situation for either legendary actions, lair across, or both.

A truly brilliant tactician closes his battlefield and uses that to how advantage
I agree and one of his lair actions could be to summon more henchmen.

[Sorinth]

How do you want the battle to actually play out? Are they supposed to know that they are outmatched and try to negotiate, are they supposed to fight and then retreat, are they supposed to get captured, etc...

Assuming you want them to fight and then retreat as others have said the fight has to last and the PCs have to feel like they are burning through resources and not really getting anywhere. This means high ac, imposing disadvantage as much as possible, and low but continuous damage. If they are killing henchmen then they'll feel like they are making progress. So unless there will be reinforcements I wouldn't use the standard Bandit stats.

You will also need a reason that they let the PCs retreat instead of following them and continuing the fight.

Assuming no reinforcements, the henchmen should at a minimum get Studded Leather and a Shield to bump their AC to 15 and I'd be tempted to boost their Dex so that the AC becomes 16 and they get a bonus to hit. I'd then also give them the Protection Fighting Style but fluff it as the Tactician doing. ie He yells something out and the henchman uses his reaction to impose Disadvantage. I'd also give them a slight HP boost so that they can survive an extra hit.

With 15-16 AC and imposing Disadvantage against pretty much all attacks it should be much harder to wipe out the henchman without making the combat all that deadly since their attack bonus is still pretty crap.

I'd give the Tactician Cunning Action and the Mastermind's ranged help, and have him take the dodge action most rounds. I'd also grant some Legendary Actions that mimic some of the Battle Master maneuvers. So basically use Commander's Strike, Rally, and Evasive Footwork as a Legendary Action using an unlimited pool of d6s.

You'd still need a way to deal with magic, especially save or suck spells which can be done in many ways but a straight save boost to nearby allies could work, or modify the Rally legendary action so that he can choose to forgoe granting HP in favour of ending a spell effect.

[Sam113097]

Matt Colville built a goblin captain with a number of actions that could be useful, in a video called Action Oriented Monsters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_zl8WWaSyI)! I agree with what has been said before: I think that's just a few too many extra mechanics and actions; it might be a good idea to look at re-flavoring Lair Actions as commands or giving him class abilities from the Mastermind, as mentioned).

[Amechra]

What are your players playing? Because other than Couldn't Hurt A Fly (which is just a bad idea all around), I just see a bunch of (not clearly signposted) number boosts, and nothing that really screams "tactics". Plus, bandits are literal chaff - 8 bandits is an easy combat for a party of four 3rd level characters.

You want more underlings, and you want varied underlings. Toss in a couple Acolytes with strategically chosen spells (one of my favorite combinations is Bane or Bless combined with Sanctuary - debuff the party's saves, then force them to make saves to hit the guy forcing the debuff). Throw in some ranged attackers who can snipe at the players and break concentration. Or, heck, scatter difficult terrain all over the battlefield and let the underlings ignore it.

And, most importantly, have the boss leave as soon as possible, because the players will be gunning for them.

[MaxWilson]

What are your players playing? Because other than Couldn't Hurt A Fly (which is just a bad idea all around), I just see a bunch of (not clearly signposted) number boosts, and nothing that really screams "tactics". Plus, bandits are literal chaff - 8 bandits is an easy combat for a party of four 3rd level characters.

You want more underlings, and you want varied underlings. Toss in a couple Acolytes with strategically chosen spells (one of my favorite combinations is Bane or Bless combined with Sanctuary - debuff the party's saves, then force them to make saves to hit the guy forcing the debuff). Throw in some ranged attackers who can snipe at the players and break concentration. Or, heck, scatter difficult terrain all over the battlefield and let the underlings ignore it.

And, most importantly, have the boss leave as soon as possible, because the players will be gunning for them.

There are only 4 bandits, but 8 bandits would actually be rather tough despite the theoretically-Easy rating. Note that bandits are ranged attackers. If the master tactician even does something as simple as setting them up in dispersed formation behind partial cover (a low stone wall 80' long, one bandit every 10') it could be a fairly deadly combat unless PCs do something smart like dropping prone and taking cover of their own. 8d8+8 (44) is a lot of incoming damage for a level 3 party to deal with.