Simple fix for many monk issues?

[Misterwhisper]

How about this as a simple monk fix:

Weapon:
Cestus 1g. 1d4 B. Unarmed, light, simple

This weapon modifies your unarmed strikes to be 1d4 damage.
The weapon is a pair of studded gloves that cover the upper wrist and hands.

Simple fixes:
It gives a weapon that can be made magical same as any other that is still unarmed.
While wearing these weapons you can not wield another weapon in your hands but they are considered empty otherwise.


A kensei could pick it as a kensei weapon.
A non monk could dual wield them if wanted as light weapons or gauntlets to punch thing.
It is a simple way for a monk to get magical unarmed attack bonuses without having to rely on the dm adding in a specific item from one campaign book.

[JNAProductions]

I mean, the weapon itself is irrelevant to a Monk. You could just as easily give hand-wraps, boxing gloves, grafts...

And what issues does this fix with Monks? Their damage isn't stellar, but assuming equal magic items for everyone, it won't move them up significantly relative to other PCs. And, moreover, a Monk isn't MEANT to be a damage powerhouse-they've got a lot of mobility and control features.

[J-H]

Magic items are easy to create. I made a pair of +1 brass knuckles that require attunement and give 1+CHAMOD ki points extra. Cha was chosen for the whole "brass knuckles to intimidate" theme, and because it's a tertiary stat. Most monks won't be getting +6 ki points out of it.

[Misterwhisper]

I mean, the weapon itself is irrelevant to a Monk. You could just as easily give hand-wraps, boxing gloves, grafts...

And what issues does this fix with Monks? Their damage isn't stellar, but assuming equal magic items for everyone, it won't move them up significantly relative to other PCs. And, moreover, a Monk isn't MEANT to be a damage powerhouse-they've got a lot of mobility and control features.

Their are no magic hand wraps, boxing gloves, or other unarmed weapons.

That is the issue.

A normal weapon that can give a basic +1, 2, 3 would solve a lot of problems.

Also they have stunning fist, that is all people really care about.

[JNAProductions]

Their are no magic hand wraps, boxing gloves, or other unarmed weapons.

That is the issue.

A normal weapon that can give a basic +1, 2, 3 would solve a lot of problems.

Also they have stunning fist, that is all people really care about.

Right... But if you're saying "Homebrew a weapon!" what's wrong with other brew?

And what issues are they solving? You haven't said that.

[Trask]

A pretty good and simple fix for damage is to allow the amount of attacks made with flurry of blows scale up, eventually to 3 extra blows.

[Misterwhisper]

Right... But if you're saying "Homebrew a weapon!" what's wrong with other brew?

And what issues are they solving? You haven't said that.

The issues:

Monks can’t get +1 or more to their unarmed attacks. Which is impossible in the rules except for one specific ite
That will never come up except for in one specific module.


You can’t two weapon fight unarmed as other classes.
I am sure many people playing a fighter or barbarian with a dip for fighting style would love just bashing things unarmed.

It is a very simple and basic item that doesn’t exist, there are no unarmed weapons.

It if they are given the finesse trait, which would also be reasonable, a rogue could finally sneak attack unarmed.

Casting foci are not weapons so you could keep a wand in hand while having a 1d4 backup on hand.

The fact that anyone could just make hand wraps or whatever is not the point, anyone can make up anything.

There needs to be an unarmed way to get magical bonuses.

[JNAProductions]

The issues:

Monks can’t get +1 or more to their unarmed attacks. Which is impossible in the rules except for one specific ite
That will never come up except for in one specific module.

You can’t two weapon fight unarmed as other classes.
I am sure many people playing a fighter or barbarian with a dip for fighting style would love just bashing things unarmed.

It is a very simple and basic item that doesn’t exist, there are no unarmed weapons.

It if they are given the finesse trait, which would also be reasonable, a rogue could finally sneak attack unarmed.

Casting foci are not weapons so you could keep a wand in hand while having a 1d4 backup on hand.

The fact that anyone could just make hand wraps or whatever is not the point, anyone can make up anything.

There needs to be an unarmed way to get magical bonuses.

Right, Monks cannot (excepting that one amulet) get magical bonuses to their fists. I fail to see why a Cestus is a better solution than Hand Wraps, or Boxing Gloves, or Claw Grafts, or any other solution.

You cannot Two Weapon Fight... And you'd never WANT TO, as a Monk, since your TWF Unarmed Strike is just your Martial Arts die, no stat bonus. But with Martial Arts, you get to make an attack as a bonus action that DOES add your stat mod.

Allowing a Rogue to Sneak Attack unarmed is not what this does-it's just adding a dagger that can't be thrown, since a Cestus is a weapon. If you want Rogues to be able to Sneak Attack with their bare hands, I'd either ask them to dip a level of Monk (it doesn't work RAW, but I'd be fine allowing it) or take Tavern Brawler (in which case, I'd let them add Finesse for dropping a die size).

For Casting Foci, you could just use a dagger, again. Unless you have a Shield, but that's general divine casters who can build their symbol into their shield. Plus, Ruby of the Warmage exists.

I don't see the issues you're solving with this-you're just making a dagger that can't be thrown, but is slightly more subtle.

[Misterwhisper]

Right, Monks cannot (excepting that one amulet) get magical bonuses to their fists. I fail to see why a Cestus is a better solution than Hand Wraps, or Boxing Gloves, or Claw Grafts, or any other solution.

You cannot Two Weapon Fight... And you'd never WANT TO, as a Monk, since your TWF Unarmed Strike is just your Martial Arts die, no stat bonus. But with Martial Arts, you get to make an attack as a bonus action that DOES add your stat mod.

Allowing a Rogue to Sneak Attack unarmed is not what this does-it's just adding a dagger that can't be thrown, since a Cestus is a weapon. If you want Rogues to be able to Sneak Attack with their bare hands, I'd either ask them to dip a level of Monk (it doesn't work RAW, but I'd be fine allowing it) or take Tavern Brawler (in which case, I'd let them add Finesse for dropping a die size).

For Casting Foci, you could just use a dagger, again. Unless you have a Shield, but that's general divine casters who can build their symbol into their shield. Plus, Ruby of the Warmage exists.

I don't see the issues you're solving with this-you're just making a dagger that can't be thrown, but is slightly more subtle.

Why do you keep harping on the name of the item, call it anything you want as long as it is a weapon that is considered unarmed, that is all that matters.

I said you can’t TWF with unarmed as other classes, not monk.

I said if you give it finesse rogues can sneak attack unarmed. Yet you keep talking about daggers, which are not unarmed and then bring up 2 different solutions that are more constraining than just having an item.

No you can’t hold a dagger in the same hand as a foci. Also it is not just a dagger that can’t be thrown, he fact they are still considered unarmed is quite a big difference.

[MaxWilson]

I came to this thread hoping to be enlightened about a common thread underlying "many monk issues."

No offense, but all I found was a simple and obvious fix to one specific issue that IME hasn't even been an issue: "I want to give a magic weapon to a monk but there aren't any on the PHB weapons table."

I was expecting something... more ambitious.

[Misterwhisper]

I came to this thread hoping to be enlightened about a common thread underlying "many monk issues."

No offense, but all I found was a simple and obvious fix to one specific issue that IME hasn't even been an issue: "I want to give a magic weapon to a monk but there aren't any on the PHB weapons table."

I was expecting something... more ambitious.

Don’t need to be ambitious when a simple fix works.

It really bothers me that monks are designed to use unarmed strikes at least some of the time but don’t get the equipment backup to do it.

It also helps some other classes with thematic builds.

[MaxWilson]

Don’t need to be ambitious when a simple fix works.

It really bothers me that monks are designed to use unarmed strikes at least some of the time but don’t get the equipment backup to do it.

It also helps some other classes with thematic builds.

I agree that it is a perfectly good fix. : )

[stoutstien]

One of the allures of the monk class is not being reliant on gear at all. If you wanted to as +1 attack/ damage as a class feature around lv 11 I don't think it would hurt anything.
Saying that damage isn't the issue with monks more than feeling restricted by the action economy more so than anyone else.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Why do you keep harping on the name of the item, call it anything you want as long as it is a weapon that is considered unarmed, that is all that matters.
This kind of feels like a Skyrim mod-- a roundabout way of grafting a new mechanic onto an existing system that sort of works if you don't think too much about it, but runs into all sorts of awkwardness around the edges. I think there's an even simpler fix-- just say that unarmed strikes have the Light and Finesse tags. Even kick the base damage up to 1d4, if you really want. That does everything you want (native TWF, unarmed sneak attacks, unarmed attacks while holding a focus or similar non-weapon item, etc) without twisting anything in funky ways.

As for magic weapons... as stoutstien mentioned, "not needing weapons" is part of the point of Monks. More importantly, perhaps it doesn't do away with the main issue of Monks-and-magic-weapons-- you can use a magic dagger or quarterstaff for your normal attacks all you want, but Martial Arts and Flurry only work with unarmed strikes. You say it fits over the hand, but the cestus is still a weapon, and thus attacks with it aren't unarmed strikes, and thus you can't use it to Flurry.

[Misterwhisper]

One of the allures of the monk class is not being reliant on gear at all. If you wanted to as +1 attack/ damage as a class feature around lv 11 I don't think it would hurt anything.
Saying that damage isn't the issue with monks more than feeling restricted by the action economy more so than anyone else.

I think it is more that if you want to play a monk who actually fights unarmed, you might as well get used to getting nothing out of adventures as far as loot goes.

In every edition I ever played in there were various magical hand wraps, cestus, or something around as normal loot, in 5e you get nothing, ever, unless you are in one specific module.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think it is more that if you want to play a monk who actually fights unarmed, you might as well get used to getting nothing out of adventures as far as loot goes.
Except for all the other types of magic item-- you can benefit from rings, amulets, cloaks, boots, and so on all you want.

[MaxWilson]

I think it is more that if you want to play a monk who actually fights unarmed, you might as well get used to getting nothing out of adventures as far as loot goes.

In every edition I ever played in there were various magical hand wraps, cestus, or something around as normal loot, in 5e you get nothing, ever, unless you are in one specific module.

Which editions are those?

[Misterwhisper]

Which editions are those?

3.0 and up. I started playing in like 98.

Even though they sucked horribly, I played more than a few monks in 3.0/3.5.
Amulet of might fists was more expensive but it was at least in a supplement book not a campaign book.
Pathfinder had multiple ones.
I did not play a monk in the brief 4e game I played.
Other systems have supported it.

5e... nothing.

Can't even roll one on a generic +1 magic weapon loot table because there are no weapons that are considered unarmed.

[stoutstien]

I think it is more that if you want to play a monk who actually fights unarmed, you might as well get used to getting nothing out of adventures as far as loot goes.

In every edition I ever played in there were various magical hand wraps, cestus, or something around as normal loot, in 5e you get nothing, ever, unless you are in one specific module.

That's my point. While the paladin and barbarian are fighting over the only magical two handed weapon the party has come across by lv 11, your fists are hitting as hard as any one hand weapon and goes up again latter on.
You don't need magical armor or items to let you be more mobile. You don't need anything.

[Misterwhisper]

That's my point. While the paladin and barbarian are fighting over the only magical two handed weapon the party has come across by lv 11, your fists are hitting as hard as any one hand weapon and goes up again latter on.
You don't need magical armor or items to let you be more mobile. You don't need anything.

In every game i have ever played in a game that took until level 11 to see a +1 magic weapon. I don't think I have ever even heard of one.

Most of the time magic weapons and armor start popping un about level 5 to 6, +2's about 11, and +3's at 17.

The damage is not the issue it is the difference in the to hit is a bigger problem.

[stoutstien]

In every game i have ever played in a game that took until level 11 to see a +1 magic weapon. I don't think I have ever even heard of one.

Most of the time magic weapons and armor start popping un about level 5 to 6, +2's about 11, and +3's at 17.

The damage is not the issue it is the difference in the to hit is a bigger problem.

Hehe. We play very different games. A party if 5 might find 1-2 magic weapons by around lv 7 but +1/2/3 weapons are super rare. Like the odds of me rolling one to pop up in a treasure horde is 1/100 or and even then the odds of finding the right style makes its a very long shot.

If you want a guaranteed +X magical weapon you better take one of the player options that provide it.

[Expired]

Don’t need to be ambitious when a simple fix works.

It really bothers me that monks are designed to use unarmed strikes at least some of the time but don’t get the equipment backup to do it.

It also helps some other classes with thematic builds.


I agree that it is a perfectly good fix. : )
I also agree. In fact, as impressive as it is to fight barehanded with magical fists and a magical quarterstaff (if you can obtain one), the inability to find +1, +2, and +3 weapons that are compatible with the bonus action unarmed strike prevent monks from staying relevant in DPR (yes, I know they have Stunning Strike but it's limited by the few Ki Points they get). Oh, and I think including Cestus is a good idea.

[Misterwhisper]

Hehe. We play very different games. A party if 5 might find 1-2 magic weapons by around lv 7 but +1/2/3 weapons are super rare. Like the odds of me rolling one to pop up in a treasure horde is 1/100 or and even then the odds of finding the right style makes its a very long shot.

If you want a guaranteed +X magical weapon you better take one of the player options that provide it.

Much better than the zero percent chance to find magic fist weapons.

Also, you could literally craft a magic weapon of your type assuming your group gets any sort of downtime.

On top of that, this is just talking basic + weapons, heaven forbid it is one of the better ones.

[Aeriox]

So wait is your cestus a melee weapon or does it count as unarmed?

[Misterwhisper]

So wait is your cestus a melee weapon or does it count as unarmed?

It is a weapon that just modifies unarmed attacks.

It gives people a chance to get a magical bonus to unarmed strikes.

Great for monks.

Also opens the doors for other classes who want to go unarmed.

[Zalabim]

You could homebrew a weapon, or you could just "homebrew" that one amulet-adjacent thing that is already explained in that one module. Either/or. This is fine, but it seems a lot like inventing chickens when you could just crack a duck egg.

[Justin Sane]

Prayer Wheel +1/+2/+3 (wondrous item, rare/very rare/legendary, requires attunement): By meditating on the Prayer Wheel as part of a Long Rest, you get a bonus +1/+2/+3 bonus to the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes. If the user is a Monk, once per Long Rest, he can make +1/+2/+3 additional unarmed strikes as part of his Flurry of Blows.

If you're going to homebrew a non-magical weapon to "fix" the monk, why are you overlooking the homebrewing of a magical item instead, which has the advantage of not interacting with other subsystems (and not breaking anything else by accident)?

[Amechra]

Prayer Wheel +1/+2/+3 (wondrous item, rare/very rare/legendary, requires attunement): By meditating on the Prayer Wheel as part of a Long Rest, you get a bonus +1/+2/+3 bonus to the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes. If the user is a Monk, once per Long Rest, he can make +1/+2/+3 additional unarmed strikes as part of his Flurry of Blows.

If you're going to homebrew a non-magical weapon to "fix" the monk, why are you overlooking the homebrewing of a magical item instead, which has the advantage of not interacting with other subsystems (and not breaking anything else by accident)?

I kinda like the idea of converting over a Rod of the Pact Keeper, especially since high level Monks are supposed to be controllers.

[Expired]

So wait is your cestus a melee weapon or does it count as unarmed?


It is a weapon that just modifies unarmed attacks.

It gives people a chance to get a magical bonus to unarmed strikes.

Great for monks.

Also opens the doors for other classes who want to go unarmed.
To add to this, it would be considered an unarmed attack when equipped allowing interactions between Monk class features and most importantly, an increase in attack and damage rolls for Flurry of Blows/bonus action unarmed strike.

[Cry Havoc]

How about this as a simple monk fix:

Weapon:
Cestus 1g. 1d4 B. Unarmed, light, simple

This weapon modifies your unarmed strikes to be 1d4 damage.
The weapon is a pair of studded gloves that cover the upper wrist and hands.

Simple fixes:
It gives a weapon that can be made magical same as any other that is still unarmed.
While wearing these weapons you can not wield another weapon in your hands but they are considered empty otherwise.


A kensei could pick it as a kensei weapon.
A non monk could dual wield them if wanted as light weapons or gauntlets to punch thing.
It is a simple way for a monk to get magical unarmed attack bonuses without having to rely on the dm adding in a specific item from one campaign book.

There is already an item that provides for magic unarmed strikes.

And there is nothing stopping you from homebrewing Monks robes/ belt/ fist wrappings that provide a +1 bonus to hit and damage for unarmed strikes (Rare, requires attunement). +2 versions are Very Rare, and +3 are Legendary.

Id much rather the aesthetics of that, that the aesthetics of every monk running around wearing knuckle dusters.

[Sorinth]

If you are a monk you should already be using a weapon like a Quarterstaff, Spear, or Shortsword, so you already have access to magic weapons for either 50% or 66% of your attacks. So I really don't see how this fixes anything, or what you are even trying to fix.

Also this would limit the magic weapon to punches, which mechanically doesn't matter but stylistically kinda sucks since most of the time you'll want to do cooler looking things like throwing elbows or roundhouse kicks, etc...

[TigerT20]

If you are a monk you should already be using a weapon like a Quarterstaff, Spear, or Shortsword, so you already have access to magic weapons for either 50% or 66% of your attacks. So I really don't see how this fixes anything, or what you are even trying to fix.

Also this would limit the magic weapon to punches, which mechanically doesn't matter but stylistically kinda sucks since most of the time you'll want to do cooler looking things like throwing elbows or roundhouse kicks, etc...

I believe it's about allowing a +1 weapon that combos with Flurry of Blows. And partially letting people TWF and keep a hand free for grappling

[Sorinth]

I believe it's about allowing a +1 weapon that combos with Flurry of Blows. And partially letting people TWF and keep a hand free for grappling

Like I said, you already get two attacks that can use a magic weapon which is the same number as every other melee class except Fighter. So it's not like you don't want or can't benefit from magic weapons, so I'm not seeing what the problem is.

TWF is pointless for a monk though since it's worse then using the Martial Arts attack since you need the Fighting Style to get your ability score to damage.

[TigerT20]

Like I said, you already get two attacks that can use a magic weapon which is the same number as every other melee class except Fighter. So it's not like you don't want or can't benefit from magic weapons, so I'm not seeing what the problem is.

TWF is pointless for a monk though since it's worse then using the Martial Arts attack since you need the Fighting Style to get your ability score to damage.

It's not for monks; the TWF option is for other classes

[DevilMcam]

If all you wish to achieve is give a monk the infamous +1/+2/+3 to hit there is an item in the Dungeon master guides that does just that.

It's called a belt of giant strength and ALSO fix the issue that monk are too MAD to invest in strength and get the amazing athletics stunts.

[Petrocorus]

(excepting that one amulet)

In what module is this amulet?